Sing-Guarding Help

[Espy Rose]

I've been trying for awhile now to pull of the sing guard, and I just can't seem to keep it constant. Sometimes I will pull it off, up to four times in a row even, but a majority of the time I either sing too late and jump off the ledge, then sing to grabbing the ledge, or I sing too early, and hug the edge of the platform whilst singing.

I've been checking it out while I try, and I notice that with the momentum of her run, when Jiggs uses sing, it slides her off the level if done right to grab the edge.

So, I have a few questions:

Q#1: To grab the edge using sing, do I:
-Sing Before I fall of the ledge? (Momenum will carry her to the ledge to grab it.)
or
-Fall then lightly hit Up-B for sing? (Hitting it lightly doesn't cause her to jump while singing)


Q#2: Then, which one is easier to execute? I've been trying both with only slight success.

Q#3: If the case is indeed singing before falling off the ledge, exactly where should I stop running and start sing?


For every 6-8 attempts I make, I only tend to sing-guard once or twice, and I need to make it consistent enough for me to use it with confidence that I won't occasionally screw up.

So please, if you have the time to help, do so, as I so desparately need it.

 

[$hYne]

I usually fall , then sing.
It works for me most of the time and i think its easier than the other way.

 

[angelspe3d]

haha its really easy dude..... check out my lil strat for it....
hit down and like right wen she lets go of the edge you should already be pushin up on the left joystick so u jump and just push B..... its realllllllllly AMAZINGLY easy.... u just gotta find your own way of doing it.... i think oing downthen jumpin but other s say puchin back to jump is easier.... what ever u think man

 

[Pointman Rob]

Just so we're clear, you are talking about running off the ledge and singing to edgeguard right?

It's pretty risky stuff. Flashy, yes, but risky. The timing requires you hit your sing just as puff leaves the edge. so watch till you're right up to the edge, then wait a FRACTION of a second longer and sing.

I wouldn't recommend this as a good option in a match though. maybe do it once in a blue moon to show off, but don't be surprised if it fails and you look foolish.

 

[Espy Rose]

Just to validate what I'm talking about:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ASX5iHcu7q0

From 0:00-0:10.

I'm not talking about Sing Canceling.

Just so we're clear, you are talking about running off the ledge and singing to edgeguard right?

It's pretty risky stuff. Flashy, yes, but risky. The timing requires you hit your sing just as puff leaves the edge. so watch till you're right up to the edge, then wait a FRACTION of a second longer and sing.

I wouldn't recommend this as a good option in a match though. maybe do it once in a blue moon to show off, but don't be surprised if it fails and you look foolish.

Thanks. I was wondering whether or not it was a good tactic, being that usually Puff's don't necessarily have to be that fast at grabbing the edge like that.

 

[angelspe3d]

holy balls!!!! i didnt kno u could do that!!!! my bad i thought u were talkin about the easy one thats stright up tight!!! PAHNNA is amazing at finding new stuff!!!

 

[Magus420]

An old trick I came up with last year or so to do this is to run towards the edge then when nearing it (about the distance an f-smash moves you) you roll the analog slowly (too fast and you will trigger a jump) upward and into the upward diagonal notch on the controller (you still run like this only a little slower), and then just press B right after you slip off the edge. Granted you run slightly slower near the edge and lose a very tiny amount of time, but it will work nearly 100% of the time pretty easily, without worrying about jumping into the up-b or not tilting enough and SDing with a rollout or something.

This works especially well because diagonally up + B in the air does your up-b, whereas a diagonal up + B on the ground does a side B. In the off chance you do mess it up and hit it too soon, you'll just pound at the edge instead of singing and getting *****. The only other real way you could possibly mess up is by rolling it too quickly to the diagonal where you'll just jump which isn't a big deal at all.

The sing instant ledge grab's been around for a long time btw. It's not new. ^^

 

[phanna]

An old trick I came up with last year or so to do this is to run towards the edge then when nearing it (about the distance an f-smash moves you) you roll the analog slowly (too fast and you will trigger a jump) upward and into the upward diagonal notch on the controller (you still run like this only a little slower), and then just press B right after you slip off the edge. Granted you run slightly slower near the edge and lose a very tiny amount of time, but it will work nearly 100% of the time pretty easily, without worrying about jumping into the up-b or not tilting enough and SDing with a rollout or something.

This works especially well because diagonally up + B in the air does your up-b, whereas a diagonal up + B on the ground does a side B. In the off chance you do mess it up and hit it too soon, you'll just pound at the edge instead of singing and getting *****. The only other real way you could possibly mess up is by rolling it too quickly to the diagonal where you'll just jump which isn't a big deal at all.

The sing instant ledge grab's been around for a long time btw. It's not new. ^^

Apparently:

Cuz Sliq invented the edgehog in the first clip. Cool vid tho.

He has a vid from YS, but this is apparently the harder one on FD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHTmtaogEHI

sliq didn´t invent this. It was known ages ago.
Nevertheless this video is extremly nice .

I would like to have a talk to you in aim or something about some of those clips

And for the record, I do it the way that Magus just described.

 

[$hYne]

As i said ... sliq didnt invent this its known for a long time .

 

[Espy Rose]

Who invented it or how long it's been known doesn't concern me.

I knew about the diag. up-b but didn't know how to execute.

Thanks again.

 

[Sliq]

Despite it being known about for a long time, I had never heard anything about this when I first posted. Both me and Phanna sort of figured it out on our own.

I simply wait until right as Jiggs runs off of the ledge. I think there are a few frames right after your character runs off of the ledge that they can't jump, so I simply use these frames and hit up + b.

I usually do it the moment Jiggs leaves the stage.

This move can be extremely helpful, as I recently won a set because of it. I didn't have enough time to get to the ledge sans this technique, I did it, edgehogged, and won. If you practice enough, it shouldn't be hard to pull of at all. This kind of works on other stages, too (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bHTmtaogEHI), albeit it is not nearly as useful, and I don't recommend using it on these stages.

Not only can you mess up and not grab the ledge, you can also kill yourself (as displayed in the video).

Also, Shyne, where did you originally here about this technique, and do you have any alt. accounts?

 

[Magus420]

Doing a quick search of my own posts the earliest thread I found where I talked about it was here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2145150&highlight=edge#post2145150

It's probably been around since some point after Sheik's up-b instant ledge grab became more known/popularized since grabbing with sing while facing either direction was somewhat common knowledge for a long time, and several other instant hogs were also looked into somewhere around then like Zelda/Chus/M2/Yoshi/etc. I don't know exactly where/when I first heard about it, but I do know I didn't really use it at all until I came up with the diagonal running trick to do it reliably.

 

[Oskurito]

This has he uses... Yesterday one of my friends used it after dodging dk d-tilt on the edge. He used it and then he walked onto the stage and used rest on dk...

 

[Sliq]

Doing a quick search of my own posts the earliest thread I found where I talked about it was here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2145150&highlight=edge#post2145150

It's probably been around since some point after Sheik's up-b instant ledge grab became more known/popularized since grabbing with sing while facing either direction was somewhat common knowledge for a long time, and several other instant hogs were also looked into somewhere around then like Zelda/Chus/M2/Yoshi/etc. I don't know exactly where/when I first heard about it, but I do know I didn't really use it at all until I came up with the diagonal running trick to do it reliably.

I assumed that people tried a bunch of up b cancels once Link's was discovered. I'm not sure which one came first, but I'm not surprised that this technique hasn't been around for a while.

The first time I did that trick, I tried to do the diagonal trick, but I found it easier to just time it and hit up B the moment I left the stage. I'm weird/awesome. It's unfortunate it isn't as useful on other stages.

 

[Jiggly Puffz]

I agree!!!

 

[$hYne]

[...] It's unfortunate it isn't as useful on other stages.

(I disagree) lol

If you can do it consistent it´s usefull on any stage .

Edit : ok probably not mute city, poke floats , ...

 

[Magus420]

I disagree!!!

Saying it's not as useful isn't the same thing as saying it's not useful

 

[$hYne]

I agree.

I skiped the "as".

 

[Sliq]

The sing edge hog is best on YS because of the near instantaneous ledge hog and the fact that you can't accidentally kill yourself by going to far out from the ledge/singing too late and plummeting to your doom. I personally don't even bother doing it on other stages.

I think the Marth Killer Trick is extremely useful. Marth Killer Rest FTW. The best part is doing it on a G&W (because he doesn't get fro'd enough as it is).

If only more stages had slanty edges.

Edit: also, instead of "I disagree, you guys really should've used this:

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/index.php

 

[Magus420]

Let's all just agree that it works best on downward sloped edges because this is true, lol.

 

[$hYne]

I agree.
I know its best on stages with downward sloped edges ,
i just skipped the "as" and was like "WTF?"

(http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2242375 lol)

 

[Sliq]

Let's just agree that were all awesome and should form a crime fighting syndicate where we beat up villains and high five each other all day.

 

[$hYne]

Let's just agree that were all awesome and should form a crime fighting syndicate where we beat up villains and high five each other all day.

I also agree on this.