Sigma Busters: Official Discussion Thread

[Glubbfubb]

I thought dodge/air dodge was just going to be Shield + Direction like in Smash?

As for Gamecube controller support, I honestly think it should be a pretty low priority. It's been grandfathered into the modern day to use for Smash 4/Ultimate, but it isn't really widely supported for anything else. You're making a game that will launch on PC (more than likely through Steam, maybe through GOG and itch.io as well), not on the GC. The controller support that should be focused is Switch/PS4/PS5/Xbox as all these are Steam compatible.

GC controllers are a nice legacy option to have for die hard Melee fans but are otherwise going to be a mostly unused novelty option for the vast majority of players. I like the GC controller and I'm not opposed to adding support down the line, but the priority should be given to modern controllers as that's what most players will have access to and be using.

Otherwise, it should technically be an easy fix so long as you don't try adding more actions that require their own buttons. In which case making a separate button for dodge may not be the best idea. Did you intend for it function a particular way where being mapped to shield is a problem?

View attachment 385717

Sorry, I forgot dodge was linked to the shield button, also note that crouching works a little differently, instead of crouching normally, when you crouch you have to hit down again to exit the crouch or jump to jump out of the crouch

 

[Kirbeh]

Sorry, I forgot dodge was linked to the shield button, also note that crouching works a little differently, instead of crouching normally, when you crouch you have to hit down again to exit the crouch or jump to jump out of the crouch

What's the reason for that exactly?

 

[Glubbfubb]

What's the reason for that exactly?

Currently I am trying to implement a technique through that crouch, if that doesn't work ill just do normal crouching

 

[Kirbeh]

Currently I am trying to implement a technique through that crouch, if that doesn't work ill just do normal crouching

What did you have in mind?

 

[Glubbfubb]

What did you have in mind?

Like a special dash that you start by crouching and dashing at the same time, you gain an even bigger burst of speed than a regular dash while also turning you around, allowing for better articulation

 

[Kirbeh]

Like a special dash that you start by crouching and dashing at the same time, you gain an even bigger burst of speed than a regular dash while also turning you around, allowing for better articulation

So, a wave dash essentially? Just call it what it is. (For now, I mean, you can come up with a new name later.)

If you want something like a wave dash, Drive Rush, etc. I'd say just give it its own button instead of trying to tip toe around giving it the Melee input. Makes it more accessible and less of a headache to design. I pretty much did the same thing for my own project. I wanted more movement options, so I added a wave dash (renamed to Rave Dash) but tied it to meter. It lacks the execution requirement of Melee's so I thought making it tied to a resource would be a fair drawback.

I figure you have other additional functionality you want to give yours?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Yeah I need to straighten up some mechanic, I want traditional wavedashing in my game with some other unique mechanics. DACUS for one, I like that tech and watch to implement it somehow.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yeah I need to straighten up some mechanic, I want traditional wavedashing in my game with some other unique mechanics. DACUS for one, I like that tech and watch to implement it somehow.

Wouldn't performing an Up Smash out of wave dash accomplish the same thing though? Adding more tech is fine, just make sure the utility being added doesn't overlap, otherwise it's redundant.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Wouldn't performing an Up Smash out of wave dash accomplish the same thing though? Adding more tech is fine, just make sure the utility being added doesn't overlap, otherwise it's redundant.

Yeah probably right, may be getting too ahead of myself right now. For now I should probably rework another moveset, wanna help me? It's for Weevle

So taking advantage of the new Back Specials, an idea I had was that Weevle's back special would have her spout blood tendrils from her back to grapple the opponent to perform a powerful grab attack like this one (0:51 for the attack). Since it's a bit awkward to aim for high risk and reward. Meanwhile, her Hyper attack is named Leech Probe, which has her instead use her tendrils to suck the life out of the opponent with a command grab that heals herself, which is balanced by the fact that her defenses are again as durable as wet tissue paper. Another unique aspect to her is her unique Forward and Back Airs, Soaring Stinger and Kick respectively, which are actually air dashes she can perform with her stinger or a kick. Furthermore, they also have different hitboxes for sweet spots: Soaring Stinger is stronger off the top and Kick at the bottom. This combined with the powerful light-fast, dropkick that is Beetle Driller for her down special, 5 midair jumps, and good air mobility, and you have a character who excepts at recovery, though ironically, her actual up special gives about as much height as an uncharged Spin Attack, very lackluster height wise.

BTW the Beetle Driller takes more inspiration from Ganondorf's Wizard Dropkick custom move from Smash 4 than the vanilla Wizard Foot.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yeah probably right, may be getting too ahead of myself right now. For now I should probably rework another moveset, wanna help me? It's for Weevle

So taking advantage of the new Back Specials, an idea I had was that Weevle's back special would have her spout blood tendrils from her back to grapple the opponent to perform a powerful grab attack like this one (0:51 for the attack). Since it's a bit awkward to aim for high risk and reward. Meanwhile, her Hyper attack is named Leech Probe, which has her instead use her tendrils to suck the life out of the opponent with a command grab that heals herself, which is balanced by the fact that her defenses are again as durable as wet tissue paper. Another unique aspect to her is her unique Forward and Back Airs, Soaring Stinger and Kick respectively, which are actually air dashes she can perform with her stinger or a kick. Furthermore, they also have different hitboxes for sweet spots: Soaring Stinger is stronger off the top and Kick at the bottom. This combined with the powerful light-fast, dropkick that is Beetle Driller for her down special, 5 midair jumps, and good air mobility, and you have a character who excepts at recovery, though ironically, her actual up special gives about as much height as an uncharged Spin Attack, very lackluster height wise.

BTW the Beetle Driller takes more inspiration from Ganondorf's Wizard Dropkick custom move from Smash 4 than the vanilla Wizard Foot.

Tendrils and a stinger? Back to the drawing board for her design then.

As for the throw, I'm down with giving her a command grab since you intend to make her a grappler/rush down hybrid. That said, I honestly don't know whether this particular throw should be a normal throw or special move. Smash has historically used giant swing styled throws as regular forward or back throws (.) Traditional fighters on the other hand usually do have it as a special; R. Mika (Street Fighter), Haggar (Marvel vs Capcom), etc. Kind of a toss-up really. Depends on how exaggerated and flashy you want it to be, I guess. I think it might be good to brainstorm some other possible throws for the special and if you do think of something else, the giant swing can still be a normal throw.

As for the air dash utility moves, I think they're fine. If air dashes are character specific rather than a universal mechanic, then I think this is a fair way to do it.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Tendrils and a stinger? Back to the drawing board for her design then.

As for the throw, I'm down with giving her a command grab since you intend to make her a grappler/rush down hybrid. That said, I honestly don't know whether this particular throw should be a normal throw or special move. Smash has historically used giant swing styled throws as regular forward or back throws (.) Traditional fighters on the other hand usually do have it as a special; R. Mika (Street Fighter), Haggar (Marvel vs Capcom), etc. Kind of a toss-up really. Depends on how exaggerated and flashy you want it to be, I guess. I think it might be good to brainstorm some other possible throws for the special and if you do think of something else, the giant swing can still be a normal throw.

As for the air dash utility moves, I think they're fine. If air dashes are character specific rather than a universal mechanic, then I think this is a fair way to do it.

Yeah on top of the four arms she has, Weevle can also make blood constructs, maybe instead of a stinger she could create spines from her elbows out blood and use that to perform an aerial shoulder dash.

As for the Back Special, the command grab would toss the opponent would be meteor'd in a diagonal angle. While this can spike in the air, the attack is a bit awkward to use in the air so it isn't all that reliable. It's mainly a punish-type command grab to counter against attacks from behind.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yeah on top of the four arms she has, Weevle can also make blood constructs, maybe instead of a stinger she could create spines from her elbows out blood and use that to perform an aerial shoulder dash.

As for the Back Special, the command grab would toss the opponent would be meteor'd in a diagonal angle. While this can spike in the air, the attack is a bit awkward to use in the air so it isn't all that reliable. It's mainly a punish-type command grab to counter against attacks from behind.

I suppose my concern here is a seeming lack of direction and overall cluttered design. And another case of too many ideas, with not enough room to place them all.

First off, the design. You want her to have multiple arms and wings, but then also have tendrils that sprout from her back. Having all these appendages makes her design very busy, to the point of being cluttered. It also reduces the readability of her movements and attacks, especially with her very small stature.

Next is gameplay, which to tie to above point; how is it informed by her design? She's a blood sucking bug inspired species. Okay cool. She's got a dagger. That's fine. She can create constructs from her own blood including spines. Okay, so what's the dagger for then? If's she got tendrils, why not use them for more attacks instead of just the grab. Alternatively, why not use her extra arms instead of the tendrils?

Her forward and back air are movement-based attacks. So why would she also have the aerial shoulder charge? Etc., etc. You get the idea. You've got a lot of ideas. Some clash with each other, some could be seen as redundant. It'd be best to find a middle ground between the two even if means dropping some of those ideas. Create a more focused design, and the stuff that gets shelved you can maybe revisit later.

 

[Kirbeh]

Also, sorry for the double post, but something like this for an aerial giant swing might work for what you have in mind. (Haggar's Wild Swing special move from U/MvC3)

https://youtu.be/01cj_ROJxpQ?t=494

 

[Glubbfubb]

I suppose my concern here is a seeming lack of direction and overall cluttered design. And another case of too many ideas, with not enough room to place them all.

First off, the design. You want her to have multiple arms and wings, but then also have tendrils that sprout from her back. Having all these appendages makes her design very busy, to the point of being cluttered. It also reduces the readability of her movements and attacks, especially with her very small stature.

Next is gameplay, which to tie to above point; how is it informed by her design? She's a blood sucking bug inspired species. Okay cool. She's got a dagger. That's fine. She can create constructs from her own blood including spines. Okay, so what's the dagger for then? If's she got tendrils, why not use them for more attacks instead of just the grab. Alternatively, why not use her extra arms instead of the tendrils?

Her forward and back air are movement-based attacks. So why would she also have the aerial shoulder charge? Etc., etc. You get the idea. You've got a lot of ideas. Some clash with each other, some could be seen as redundant. It'd be best to find a middle ground between the two even if means dropping some of those ideas. Create a more focused design, and the stuff that gets shelved you can maybe revisit later.

I was just thinking of that when making her moveset, check it out.

Spoiler: Weevle Moveset Rework

Weevle has 5 mid-air jumps
Neutral Attack: Four Fist Flash – A rapid-fire jab with each of Weevle's four arms rapidly punching the target.


Forward Tilt: Red Cutter – A small dagger of blood gets formed by Weevle's hands, she then stabs the dagger forward. There is a small tipper mechanic where the tip of the dagger deals the most damage and knockback while the base deals very small damage.


Forward Tilt (Low or High Diagonal Input): Red Crescent – An angled version of the Red Cutter retaining the tipper mechanics.


Up Tilt: Wingding – Weevle claps her wings upwards to catch an opponent upwards. It's best as a juggling tool at low percent, but it isn't all that good at high percents, her least useful tilt overall.


Back Tilt: Flipping Beetle – A small backflip backwards, the initial hit is the weakest while the final hit with her feet is the strongest.


Down Tilt: Bite – Weevle tries to bite the opponent, while stubby range-wise, it can trip the opponent.

Down Tilt (Low or High Diagonal Input): Angled Bite– An angled version of the Bite attack, lower angles have a higher chance to trip but have even shorter range, while the higher angles have longer ranged but no trip chance.


Dash Attack: Flydown – A diving attack onto the ground, the sweetspot is in the middle while the end of the move is quite slow.


Side Charge: Double Punch – Weevle winds up two of her fists to punch the foe forward.


Up Charge: Pummel Spinner – Weevle rapidly spins around with all of her fists like a tornado, which can actually lift her very slightly in the air.


Down Charge: Crimson Scythe – Weevle's foot creates a blade made out of blood, which she then uses to kick a very disjointed leg to both sides.


Neutral Air: Red Spinner – A spin in the air, where Weevle's body spawns blood blades to extend the range.


Forward Air – Soaring Blade – A unique attack where Weevle dashes forward with an elbow that has a blood blade sticking out of her elbow. This acts as a midair dash forward, meaning she can't string it together very well, better used for mobility. The sweetspot is on the top of the attack, which is the part with the spine.


Back Air – Soaring Boot – A unique attack where Weevle dashes backwards with an foot that has a blood blade sticking out of her sole. This acts as a midair dash backwards, meaning she can't string it together very well, better used for mobility. The sweetspot is on the bottom of the attack, which is the part with the spine.


Up Air – Clapping Clasp – Weevle claps with all of her hands together, creating a shockwave upwards that deals major knockback.


Down Air – Fangs Below- Weevle comes down fangs first to spike the opponent. A stall and fall with a very strong sweetspot but is of course risky to use. Good for recovery too.


Neutral Special: Twin Cutters –Weevle launches two blood disks as medium-hit projectiles, the initial hit is weak, but on the way back the projectiles gain stronger knockback, good for brining opponents in.

Neutral Hyper: Red Stars – The projectiles increase to three and now pause in the air in a spreadshot for continuous damage before returning to the user.

Neutral Super: ??? –


Forward Special: Small Grasshopper – A leaping attack that goes over projectiles that ends in a powerful blood blade strike.

Forward Hyper: Large Cicada – Weevle now grabs onto the opponent when she connects the attack, allowing her to suck the opponent's blood to heal herself a small amount.

Forward Super: ??? –

Back Special: Trapping Hold – Weevle turns her arms backwards to perform a command grab, allowing her to perform a suplex attack.

Back Hyper: Leech Probe – The attack now has Weevle bite the opponent before burying them downward, healing herself a small amount after the fact.

Back Super: ??? –

Up Special: Spinning Spider – A spinning slash attack formed by her blood blades that doesn't do much height, but is quite strong.

Up Hyper: Red Widow – A leaping attack that has Weevle rise up and then launch 3 blood projectiles downward before she gets sent into freefall.

Up Super: ??? –

Down Special: Flyweight Kick – A dropkick that sends Weevle downwards in a slight diagonal angle, can be aimed left or right, a good recovery tool, the sweetspot is at the very end of the attack.

Down Hyper: Twin Cleaver – Perform a short dropkick forward and then a short dropkick downward, both can be aimed slightly.

Down Super: ??? –

I tried making a more condensed and logical moveset, I cut the tendrils and instead have Weevle create blades made out blood on her hands, feet, and elbows, which I feel makes more sense. Gave her some command grabs, some that have her bite the opponent to suck their blood to heal herself slightly. I also couldn't really think of Supers for her, so if you have any ideas it would be nice to hear. I hope you like what I have so far.

 

[Kirbeh]

I was just thinking of that when making her moveset, check it out.

Spoiler: Weevle Moveset Rework

Weevle has 5 mid-air jumps
Neutral Attack: Four Fist Flash – A rapid-fire jab with each of Weevle's four arms rapidly punching the target.


Forward Tilt: Red Cutter – A small dagger of blood gets formed by Weevle's hands, she then stabs the dagger forward. There is a small tipper mechanic where the tip of the dagger deals the most damage and knockback while the base deals very small damage.


Forward Tilt (Low or High Diagonal Input): Red Crescent – An angled version of the Red Cutter retaining the tipper mechanics.


Up Tilt: Wingding – Weevle claps her wings upwards to catch an opponent upwards. It's best as a juggling tool at low percent, but it isn't all that good at high percents, her least useful tilt overall.


Back Tilt: Flipping Beetle – A small backflip backwards, the initial hit is the weakest while the final hit with her feet is the strongest.


Down Tilt: Bite – Weevle tries to bite the opponent, while stubby range-wise, it can trip the opponent.

Down Tilt (Low or High Diagonal Input): Angled Bite– An angled version of the Bite attack, lower angles have a higher chance to trip but have even shorter range, while the higher angles have longer ranged but no trip chance.


Dash Attack: Flydown – A diving attack onto the ground, the sweetspot is in the middle while the end of the move is quite slow.


Side Charge: Double Punch – Weevle winds up two of her fists to punch the foe forward.


Up Charge: Pummel Spinner – Weevle rapidly spins around with all of her fists like a tornado, which can actually lift her very slightly in the air.


Down Charge: Crimson Scythe – Weevle's foot creates a blade made out of blood, which she then uses to kick a very disjointed leg to both sides.


Neutral Air: Red Spinner – A spin in the air, where Weevle's body spawns blood blades to extend the range.


Forward Air – Soaring Blade – A unique attack where Weevle dashes forward with an elbow that has a blood blade sticking out of her elbow. This acts as a midair dash forward, meaning she can't string it together very well, better used for mobility. The sweetspot is on the top of the attack, which is the part with the spine.


Back Air – Soaring Boot – A unique attack where Weevle dashes backwards with an foot that has a blood blade sticking out of her sole. This acts as a midair dash backwards, meaning she can't string it together very well, better used for mobility. The sweetspot is on the bottom of the attack, which is the part with the spine.


Up Air – Clapping Clasp – Weevle claps with all of her hands together, creating a shockwave upwards that deals major knockback.


Down Air – Fangs Below- Weevle comes down fangs first to spike the opponent. A stall and fall with a very strong sweetspot but is of course risky to use. Good for recovery too.


Neutral Special: Twin Cutters –Weevle launches two blood disks as medium-hit projectiles, the initial hit is weak, but on the way back the projectiles gain stronger knockback, good for brining opponents in.

Neutral Hyper: Red Stars – The projectiles increase to three and now pause in the air in a spreadshot for continuous damage before returning to the user.

Neutral Super: ??? –


Forward Special: Small Grasshopper – A leaping attack that goes over projectiles that ends in a powerful blood blade strike.

Forward Hyper: Large Cicada – Weevle now grabs onto the opponent when she connects the attack, allowing her to suck the opponent's blood to heal herself a small amount.

Forward Super: ??? –

Back Special: Trapping Hold – Weevle turns her arms backwards to perform a command grab, allowing her to perform a suplex attack.

Back Hyper: Leech Probe – The attack now has Weevle bite the opponent before burying them downward, healing herself a small amount after the fact.

Back Super: ??? –

Up Special: Spinning Spider – A spinning slash attack formed by her blood blades that doesn't do much height, but is quite strong.

Up Hyper: Red Widow – A leaping attack that has Weevle rise up and then launch 3 blood projectiles downward before she gets sent into freefall.

Up Super: ??? –

Down Special: Flyweight Kick – A dropkick that sends Weevle downwards in a slight diagonal angle, can be aimed left or right, a good recovery tool, the sweetspot is at the very end of the attack.

Down Hyper: Twin Cleaver – Perform a short dropkick forward and then a short dropkick downward, both can be aimed slightly.

Down Super: ??? –

I tried making a more condensed and logical moveset, I cut the tendrils and instead have Weevle create blades made out blood on her hands, feet, and elbows, which I feel makes more sense. Gave her some command grabs, some that have her bite the opponent to suck their blood to heal herself slightly. I also couldn't really think of Supers for her, so if you have any ideas it would be nice to hear. I hope you like what I have so far.

Okay, so far so good. I like this one a lot so far. I'll do a full review/revision later.

I was in the middle of doodling some redos for her, so I guess the tendrils are off the table already. I'd added stingers to the tendrils themselves and kept them as a constant fixture of her back. Think Iron Spider Armor or Origin Giratina.

And I'm guessing we move the wings onto the four-armed version?

Spoiler

 

[Glubbfubb]

Okay, so far so good. I like this one a lot so far. I'll do a full review/revision later.

I was in the middle of doodling some redos for her, so I guess the tendrils are off the table already. I'd added stingers to the tendrils themselves and kept them as a constant fixture of her back. Think Iron Spider Armor or Origin Giratina.

And I'm guessing we move the wings onto the four-armed version?

View attachment 385731

I like these designs, really emphasizes the vampiric nature she has, btw the Twin Cutters are inspired by Quick Man's Quick Boomerangs in terms of design.

 

[Kirbeh]

I like these designs, really emphasizes the vampiric nature she has, btw the Twin Cutters are inspired by Quick Man's Quick Boomerangs in terms of design.

You didn't say what to go with though.

The first things that came to mind for me for the Twin Cutters was Guile's Sonic Boom or Jedah's Dio Sega.

Also, you must really like boomerang style moves. I feel like every other move set you've made has had one at some point. Weevle, Kowalski, Aremi, and Wynnie.

 

[Glubbfubb]

You didn't say what to go with though.

The first things that came to mind for me for the Twin Cutters was Guile's Sonic Boom or Jedah's Dio Sega.

Also, you must really like boomerang style moves. I feel like every other move set you've made has had one at some point. Weevle, Kowalski, Aremi, and Wynnie.

The normal projectile is a boomerang-shape, while the hyper version takes more inspiration from a ninja star.

Also, yeah, I did do a lot of boomerang projectiles, didn't notice that

All the designs are very good, I have no idea which one to choose. I feel like the one on the left is the best since it would be easiest to implement that attack where she turns her arms towards her back for that command grab.

 

[Kirbeh]

The normal projectile is a boomerang-shape, while the hyper version takes more inspiration from a ninja star.

Also, yeah, I did do a lot of boomerang projectiles, didn't notice that

All the designs are very good, I have no idea which one to choose. I feel like the one on the left is the best since it would be easiest to implement that attack where she turns her arms towards her back for that command grab.

But would you want the wings to transfer over to that design? The reason I ask is that the move where she turns her arms back to grab you would clash with the wings. The wings would get in the way of trying to hold an opponent from behind her. I think you either go with four arms or two arms with wings. Without wings she can move her extra arms around in more ways. Or keep the wings to be able to utilize what they offer.

 

[Glubbfubb]

But would you want the wings to transfer over to that design? The reason I ask is that the move where she turns her arms back to grab you would clash with the wings. The wings would get in the way of trying to hold an opponent from behind her. I think you either go with four arms or two arms with wings. Without wings she can move her extra arms around in more ways. Or keep the wings to be able to utilize what they offer.

I mean you could just have the wing hidden from view until she needs to use them, like how beetles and other bugs set up their wings

 

[Kirbeh]

I mean you could just have the wing hidden from view until she needs to use them, like how beetles and other bugs set up their wings

I mean, I didn't know you wanted to throw beetle anatomy into the mix.

Her design thus far has been based on the vampire aesthetic and species with associated with blood sucking (mosquitoes) and stingers (bees, wasps)

 

[Glubbfubb]

I mean, I didn't know you wanted to throw beetle anatomy into the mix.

Her design thus far has been based on the vampire aesthetic and species with associated with blood sucking (mosquitoes) and stingers (bees, wasps)

Well I mean if it makes designing her easier sure, hiding winds beneath the shell is not something exclusive with beetles

 

[Quillion]

(OP Hop)

Just read your pitch, Glubbfubb , and I must say, I think the prospect of a knockback-based platform fighter built fully around command inputs as opposed to direction+special has potential. Love them or hate them, command inputs will always be superior to direction+special in one way: providing greater options to assign inputs to moves.

That said, maybe you'll want to do what DBFZ does and limit command inputs purely to circle motions (quarter, half or full). I don't know; I just hopped in from the pitch.

 

[Kirbeh]

Well I mean if it makes designing her easier sure, hiding winds beneath the shell is not something exclusive with beetles

I was just saying that's not an element you'd previously mentioned. Hence why I never went in that direction since I thought it was outside the intended design. Anyway, I don't like the helmet, so I'll keep messing around with it. Or should she go back to not having one?

Spoiler

 

[Kirbeh]

(OP Hop)

Just read your pitch, Glubbfubb , and I must say, I think the prospect of a knockback-based platform fighter built fully around command inputs as opposed to direction+special has potential. Love them or hate them, command inputs will always be superior to direction+special in one way: providing greater options to assign inputs to moves.

That said, maybe you'll want to do what DBFZ does and limit command inputs purely to circle motions (quarter, half or full). I don't know; I just hopped in from the pitch.

As things currently stand, complex stuff like KOF supers don't seem to be in the plans anymore. The game is still going to operate with simple/Smash inputs in mind, so specials are currently limited to 5 per character. More standard inputs like SRKs and QC/HC are on the table though. Both control methods are being offered.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I was just saying that's not an element you'd previously mentioned. Hence, I never went in that direction since I thought it was outside the intended design. Anyway, I don't like the helmet, so I'll keep messing around with it. Or should she go back to not having one?

View attachment 385738

I like the design, but I don't like the helmet, It would be funny if LAMBDA also objected to the helmet since it could cramp their style in a cutscene when Weevle is sent out to battle LAMBDA could hide the helmet to get rid of it. Maybe if there is a superboss in the arcade mode Weevle could wear the helmet then, but not normally in battle.

 

[Quillion]

As things currently stand, complex stuff like KOF supers don't seem to be in the plans anymore. The game is still going to operate with simple/Smash inputs in mind, so specials are currently limited to 5 per character. More standard inputs like SRKs and QC/HC are on the table though. Both control methods are being offered.

Are they going to overlap like what Smash does for the tradfighter characters, or are they going to be a toggle like SF6?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Are they going to overlap like what Smash does for the tradfighter characters, or are they going to be a toggle like SF6?

Currently the new innovation is the addition of 5 tilt and specials, which is a move for the opposite direction to mirror the Back Air, they are called Back Tilts and Back Specials, each special can also have an enhanced version called Hyper Specials and each directional input has a EX Move called Hypermax Attacks.

 

[Kirbeh]

I like the design, but I don't like the helmet, It would be funny if LAMBDA also objected to the helmet since it could cramp their style in a cutscene when Weevle is sent out to battle LAMBDA could hide the helmet to get rid of it. Maybe if there is a superboss in the arcade mode Weevle could wear the helmet then, but not normally in battle.

I like this idea. I will keep her without it but having it as part of story/character interactions sounds like fun. People either calling her cute for it, much to her chagrin, or people mocking her chuunisms. Definitely going to make a better design for it though. Revisit the Kamen Rider aesthetic, just not the one I did previously.

 

[Quillion]

Currently the new innovation is the addition of 5 tilt and specials, which is a move for the opposite direction to mirror the Back Air, they are called Back Tilts and Back Specials, each special can also have an enhanced version called Hyper Specials and each directional input has a EX Move called Hypermax Attacks.

Yeah, but are the command inputs and direction+special going to overlap, or are they going to be switchable?

 

[Kirbeh]

Are they going to overlap like what Smash does for the tradfighter characters, or are they going to be a toggle like SF6?

Preferably SF6 style, but I don't know what they've decided on yet.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I like this idea. I will keep her without it but having it as part of story/character interactions sounds like fun. People either calling her cute for it, much to her chagrin, or people mocking her chuunisms. Definitely going to make a better design for it though. Revisit the Kamen Rider aesthetic, just not the one I did previously.

A vampire Kamen Rider with four arms is a pretty bad**s superboss tbh

Yeah, but are the command inputs and direction+special going to overlap, or are they going to be switchable?

I mean some attacks will change based on how you input the direction, some tilts can be manipulated. No major combo streams, I feel it makes the game more balanced that way. However the addition of a super meter, competitive friendly super moves, 5 attacks per input instead of 4, and the return of DACUSing and Wavedashing is pretty unique as well.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Preferably SF6 style, but I don't know what they've decided on yet.

I sorta scrapped the swappable Hypermax attacks after we both decided on having each special attack having both a Hyper and EX variant

Though this new way of thinking does leave me back on a quandary... how do you make a EX attack out of a counter. This is for Levi and Wynnie BTW.

 

[Kirbeh]

A vampire Kamen Rider with four arms is a pretty bad**s superboss tbh


I mean some attacks will change based on how you input the direction, some tilts can be manipulated. No major combo streams, I feel it makes the game more balanced that way. However the addition of a super meter, competitive friendly super moves, 5 attacks per input instead of 4, and the return of DACUSing and Wavedashing is pretty unique as well.

You still didn't answer his question though. He's asking if simple and traditional inputs will be a menu toggle or exist together during a match like in Smash.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Yeah, but are the command inputs and direction+special going to overlap, or are they going to be switchable?

I feel an option would make the game too imbalanced based on what we have so far, so no there might not be sorry

I should update the OP BTW

 

[Kirbeh]

I sorta scrapped the swappable Hypermax attacks after we both decided on having each special attack having both a Hyper and EX variant

Though this new way of thinking does leave me back on a quandary... how do you make a EX attack out of a counter. This is for Levi and Wynnie BTW.

That's an entirely different thing tho. He's not asking about supers, just the general controls. As for the counters I've already got some suggestions, but I'll be posting those once I do full reviews of their move sets.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Let me just update the OP to reflect the current goal of the game.

Yeah, from what were working on now is less of a mixture of traditional and platform fighting, and more of a what-if scenario if Smash Bros added new moves and mechanics after Melee.

 

[Kirbeh]

Glubbfubb

This a little better?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Glubbfubb

This a little better?

View attachment 385740

Anyway yeah solid design. I imagine her carapace would be mostly black and grey with yellow eyes that become red when she drinks blood.

 

[Kirbeh]

Anyway yeah solid design. I imagine her carapace would be mostly black and grey with yellow eyes that become red when she drinks blood.

I was thinking of doing an inverted ladybug color scheme actually. The outside would be black, with a red inside to go with the vampire motif. I was also thinking yellow eyes, though the change to red isn't something I'm think of working into the sprites/gameplay. Not something you'd actually get to see unless you went up really close. Again, something I'd save for a sequel with 3D models and more dynamic camera movement.