Sigma Busters: Official Discussion Thread

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh since the backstory is being reworked, I decided to rework Levi as well, tell me how you think, expect a kit for Wynnie in the future on this very same post.

Spoiler: Levi's Kit

Name - Levi
Gender - Male
Species - Polarus Dracon
Design - Levi is a humanoid dragon, not unlike the builds of Fox and Falco. The Polarus Dracons are cyan, with several head spikes on their back, not unlike small icicles, with webbed hands and feet to give them a better grip on the ice. Levi has a long tail with a spike at the end and a thin, agile frame. His attire is mostly white, with a blue badge on his shoulder to indicate his status as a sheriff. He has an overtly refined appearance, befitting of his orderly persona.
Origin - Levi is one of the top law enforcement of the galaxy, an orderly person who cleans up crime in his sector with cold efficiency. He comes from the surface of Draden, a planet with an icy surface and molten cavernous core, and has crawled up from being a humble miner to a respected member of his community. Currently, he is up and coming for being the next chief of police in his sector, but to do so he is required to mentor a new sheriff to take his place, who is, unfortunately, the rather rambunctious Wynnie. Of course, this isn’t the only thing that will shatter his sense of organization, as a certain fiery plant will expose him to the dark underbelly of the system he helps maintain.
Archetype - Spacer
Gimmick - Tipper - Levi's prized blade, Frostpunk, has a tipper mechanic, meaning attacks that hit the sword's tip will be dealt extra damage. The parts where icy mist radiate indicate where the tipper is.
Intended Strengths -

• As a sword wielder, Levi has good range on his close-range tools.
• His Down Special, Frost Guard, is a powerful counter, allowing him extra survivability.
• Balanced stats, with good speed, weight, and agility.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Stats, while good, are nothing spectacular, so he doesn't excel at anything notable.
• A lack of a projectile makes him weak to zoners.
• His recovery is linear and somewhat predictable.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B+
Running Speed - B+
Traction - A+
Jump Height - A-
Air Acceleration - B-
Fall Speed - B
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Twin Slash - A duo of slashes are performed, one after another, icy mist trailing behind both. The first slash deals more damage, while the later slash deals more knockback.
Forward Tilt - Wide Slash - Levi reaches his arm out to perform a longer-ranged slash. It is an in-between of the two slashes of his jab, with solid damage and knockback at the tip, however, it has more end-lag.
Up Tilt - Ice Spire - A vertical thrust upwards, the icy misty Levi's sword produces are used as weak hits to push up into the stronger hit.
Down Tilt - Slippery Blade - A small thrust aimed at the opponent's knee; if the tip hits, there is a chance to trip the opponent.
Back Tilt - Backwards Slash - Levi turns around to perform a horizontal slash. His laggiest move, but his most powerful in terms of raw damage.
Dash Attack - Dashing Cutter - A fast slash is performed, with a stronger late hit to KO opponents, however, the move has high-end lag.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Ice Crash - Levi charges ice on his blade to hammer into the ground. If you fully charge this attack, the resulting ice blast can freeze opponents in place.
Up Charge - Triple Blade - Levi slashes upwards in a crescent shape. The more he charges the attack, the more slashes he performs, maxing out at three slashes.
Down Charge - Twin Froster - Levi slashes downwards at both sides, his weakest in terms of damage, but his safest and longest ranged Charge Attack.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Hurricane Cutter - His fastest aerial and core combo tool. Levi spins around like a buzzsaw, his sword slashing around him. A very quick and safe move, only held back by middling damage.
Forward Air - Jump Slash - Levi lunges downward and his sword hits from above. This move gives him a recovery mixup due to speedening his descent when used. This move can spike when hit in the middle of the attack.
Up Air - Waxing Crescent - Levi slashes in an upward crescent motion, the tipper launching foes upwards as a vertical kill move.
Down Air - Waning Crescent - The previous attack is performed downwards, and the tipper is now able to spike opponents.
Back Air - Quarter Slash - Slashing in an upward angle backwards, Levi can use this attack as a get-off-me tool due to its high knockback.

Grabs:
Pummel - Knee Jab - A jab with his knee, quite a quick jab that trades some power for increased speed.
Forward Throw - Dragon Kick - Levi kicks the opponent forward, launching them back. A solid through that setup combos at low percentages and KOs at high percentages.
Down Throw - Dragon Stamp - A simple kick to the ground, though the kick is strong enough to bury opponents for combos. In terms of raw damage, this is Levi’s weakest throw.
Back Throw - Cobalt Suplex - A suplex throw gets performed, launching the foe back, a solid kill throw.
Up Throw - Icicle Blade - Levi tosses the foe and launched them upward, dealing the least knockback of all his throws but is the easier to combo with.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Blurry Flurry - Levi charges his sword to perform several forward strikes, followed by a final stronger attack. The speed of these strikes makes this a potent weapon, though the end-lag of the final strike is a notable hindrance. When used in the air, this move becomes a singular horizontal strike that travels longer the more you charge, aiding in recovery.

• Neutral Hyper - Blue Blade - Canceling the charge, Levi instead performs a singular thrust forward while the blade is enwrapped in ice. If the tipper is hit, the opponent is launched while encased in ice. The attack has less recovery utility but lacks the charge needed to launch Levi forward, so its some give and take.

Side Special - Tempest Winds - Levi performs a crescent slash that launches a tempest of ice forward. This move charges over time passively, and at higher charges more icy wind is launched, freezing the opponent at full charge.

• Side Hyper - Tempest Slash - Levi unleashes a series of strikes above their head while rising into the air. This move can be directed to head in any direction, including downwards. The last hit deals considerably more knockback than the rest. This move trades its freezing capabilities for a strong recovery tool.

Down Special - Counterslash - A counterattack, when Levi gets hit, he instead deals 1.2x damage of what you would have gotten to the attacker. Using this attack also pauses his midair momentum.

• Down Hyper - Freeze Counter - The counter now freezes the opponent in place in a block of ice, but the counter now only deals 1.1x damage, again some give and take.

Up Special - Cryo Slash - Levi slashes upwards with his ice-coated sword. This recovery move has a very strong vertical distance but very poor horizontal drift, though the fact it has invincibility on the first hits does make up for that somewhat.

• Up Hyper - Cryo Buster - A higher-damaging version of Cryo Slash that also leaps Levi at a more diagonal angle, making it a better recovery tool. Unlike base Cryo Slash, this is a strong single-hit attack rather than a multi-hit.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Vital Strike - Performing a crouching pose, Levi then slashes with a short-ranged but highly damaging strike that sends foes into a crumpled state. The high-end lag of this attack makes it highly risky to pull out, but it's no less potent of an attack.
Level 2 - Halberg - A spin-attack is performed, attacking both sides. While the attack is used, Levi spreads icy mist that instantly freezes opponents who get hit by the attack’s tipper.
Level 3 - Leviathan Blizzard - Levi’s longest ranged attack, he charges his blade, the ice shaping it into a leviathan, before he crashes the attack into the ground, dealing massive damage and knockback. One of the strongest attacks in terms of raw damage, but his laggiest as well.

Spoiler: Wynnie's Kit WIP

Name - Wynnie
Gender - Female
Species - Magmatic Dracon
Design - Like Levi, Wynnie is a humanoid dragon with a build similar to Fox and Falco. As a Magmatic Dracon, Wynnie has deep red skin and a pair of glowing red horns, with a long spiked tail. Her outfit is mainly black in color, and on her back is an axe that is the same size as her body. Despite her small frame she is quite strong, though the heavy axe she carries often has her in a hunched pose in battle, though without the axe she is taller than Levi. She wears a yellow badge on her shoulder, indicating that she is a sheriff in training.
Origin - Wynnie is an officer at training on her planet of Draden, a world with a fiery surface and molten core. She has potential for greatness, but she is also a bit of a klutz and total meathead, she does mean well though and has moments of brilliance when given the chance. Ironically, its this out-there personality of hers that makes her more critical of some of the systems put in place in the world, and her encounters with a certain flaming plant will definitely put her world upside down.
Archetype - Spacer/Bruiser
Gimmick - Gripper - Wynnie’s battle axe, Flameiron, has a very powerful head, but the rest of the axe is very weak, meaning she has more extreme hitboxes than Levi.
Intended Strengths -

• Wynnie has some of the highest raw damage in the game, meaning she can KO much earlier compared to other fighters.
• She has several moves with odd properties, confounding those used to more traditional fighters.
• Several moves can burn opponents, weakening the durability of shields.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Awkward stat distribution, with solid running stats, but poor air speed and traction.
• Lowest traction in the game, meaning she is poor at micro-movements.
• Odd attack style means she has a higher skill floor compared to other fighters.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B+
Running Speed - B+
Traction - D-
Jump Height - C+
Air Acceleration - D
Fall Speed - B+
Weight - A-
Ground Moves:
Jab - Flame Hilt - A slice from her axe sends the foe downwards. For a jab, it has some launching power, but lacks the traditional combos jabs can bring.
Forward Tilt - Wide Chop - Wynnie swings her axe like a baseball bat, increasing her range compared to her jab but also the lag, with high end-lag if it misses.
Up Tilt - Eruption - Wynnie radiates fire as she crashes her axe down in a powerful swing. One of the slowest tilts in the game, but one of the highest in pure damage.
Down Tilt - Axe Kick - Wynnie tries to trip the opponent with her leg, the heel has a higher chance to trip then her shin.
Back Tilt - Whip Tail - Wynnie uses her spiked tail to whip from behind; unlike most tilts, this functions more like a jab, having a three hit combo that launches foes upwards in the final hit, which is good for setting up combos with her aerial. Despite being an odd move, it has great value for her kit.
Dash Attack - Axe Lariat - Wynnie spins with her axe to perform a lariat-like attack; her body is invincible during the animation, and the end of the attack changes based off if you hold the button when the attack ends. If you don't, she ends the attack with a final slice that sends the foe diagonally upwards, good for a get-off-me tool, but if you hold the button, she will crash the axe into the ground, dealing a powerful hit, but it's laggier as she clumsily tries to her axe on the ground.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Magma Dropper - Wynnie plunges her axe into the ground to create a burst of flames; the larger the charge, the bigger the flame; at full charge she can even burn the opponent, draining their Guts Meter.
Up Charge - Flame Spinner - Wynnie spins the axe over head like a flag twirler, dealing multiple hits of damage in the process.
Down Charge - Dancing Axe - Wynnie attacks, not with her axe, but with a breakdance motion using the hilt of her giant axe as support, her quickest Charge Attack.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Wild Top - Wynnie spins like a top, dealing damage on both sides, the edges of which have the strongest knockback. However, she is vulnerable everywhere else, so there is some risk. This attack does slow her descent, aiding in her recovery.
Forward Air - Meteor Chop - An axe swing with the capability to spike opponents downward. This is among her safest aerials start-up-wise, but it does have some lag.
Up Air - Sunrise - A move very similar to Cloud Up Air mechanically and visually, where Wynnie thrusts her axe upwards to launch opponents, a good lead into Eruption.
Down Air - Sunset - A massive slash downwards, a very laggy down air, but one with massive power.
Back Air - Nova Tail - A strong tail slap, the heel of which has some explosive power behind it, being able to spike.

Grabs:
Pummel - Elbow Jab - Wynnie elbows the opponent, slightly more damaging than Levi’s, but slightly slower as well.
Forward Throw - Dragon Rush - Wynnie tackles forwards, burying the opponent in the dirt, a good throw to set up combos on.
Down Throw - Rapid-Fire Kicks - Wynnie kicks rapidly into the opponent before kicking them away, good for wracking up damage.
Back Throw - Tail Rope - Wynnie uses her tail to toss the opponent back, a potent kill throw.
Up Throw - Axe Blender - Wynnie grinds the opponent into her axe like a blender, a strong damage-wracking tool.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Magma Axe - Wynnie charges a swing to her axe, creating a projectile that lingers on the screen and deals multiple hits of damage; the longer it's changed, the more hits are dealt. When used in the air, Wynnie instead drops her axe to create a larger projectile, but she is forced to use a standard kick (not unlike a weaker Mario’s Neutral Air) as her only attack until she lands.

• Neutral Hyper - Flame Pillars - A line of flame pillars gets created on the ground, each pillar can burn the opponent, sapping them of their Guts Meter. In the air, Wynnie instead spins her axe to launch 4 fireballs in each of the diagonal directions, also capable of burning.

Side Special - Arching Slash - Wynnie leaps over projectiles, then does a jumping slash. A good way to approach due to its good start-up, though, of course, the landing is pretty ground, as Wynnie has to get herself up afterward.

• Side Hyper - Arching Rocket - Wynnie charges some flames into this next slash, allowing her to travel further, burn opponents, and have better recovery when she lands.

Down Special - Counterslash - A counterattack, when Wynnie gets hit, she instead deals 1.3x damage of what you would have gotten to the attacker. Using this attack also pauses her midair momentum. Compared to Levi, the active frames of the counter are shorter, but the counter itself deals more damage.

• Down Hyper - Burning Counter - The counter now burns the opponent, which slowly saps their stamina meter, but the counter now only deals 1.2x damage, again some give and take.

Up Special - Dragoon - Wynnie slashes upwards with her axe, sending her upwards. The normal version is a multi-hit that carries foes upwards. However, if she uses the attack in the opposite direction she is facing, the attack instead becomes a very potent single initial hit capable of KOing fighters at low percents. Its awkward input makes it one of the most difficult moves to land, but also one of the most rewarding.

• Up Hyper - Pyro Buster - The attack now goes higher and deals more hits of damage while also burning opponents. When reversed, the attack now sends back rather than upwards, making it a less reliable kill move, so some give and take.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - TBA -
Level 2 - TBA -
Level 3 - TBA -

 

[Kirbeh]

Kirbeh since the backstory is being reworked, I decided to rework Levi as well, tell me how you think, expect a kit for Wynnie in the future on this very same post.

Spoiler: Levi's Kit

Name - Levi
Gender - Male
Species - Polarus Dracon
Design - Levi is a humanoid dragon, not unlike the builds of Fox and Falco. The Polarus Dracons are cyan, with several head spikes on their back, not unlike small icicles, with webbed hands and feet to give them a better grip on the ice. Levi has a long tail with a spike at the end and a thin, agile frame. His attire is mostly white, with a blue badge on his shoulder to indicate his status as a sheriff. He has an overtly refined appearance, befitting of his orderly persona.
Origin - Levi is one of the top law enforcement of the galaxy, an orderly person who cleans up crime in his sector with cold efficiency. He comes from the surface of Draden, a planet with an icy surface and molten cavernous core, and has crawled up from being a humble miner to a respected member of his community. Currently, he is up and coming for being the next chief of police in his sector, but to do so he is required to mentor a new sheriff to take his place, who is, unfortunately, the rather rambunctious Wynnie. Of course, this isn’t the only thing that will shatter his sense of organization, as a certain fiery plant will expose him to the dark underbelly of the system he helps maintain.
Archetype - Spacer
Gimmick - Tipper - Levi's prized blade, Frostpunk, has a tipper mechanic, meaning attacks that hit the sword's tip will be dealt extra damage. The parts where icy mist radiate indicate where the tipper is.
Intended Strengths -

• As a sword wielder, Levi has good range on his close-range tools.
• His Down Special, Frost Guard, is a powerful counter, allowing him extra survivability.
• Balanced stats, with good speed, weight, and agility.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Stats, while good, are nothing spectacular, so he doesn't excel at anything notable.
• A lack of a projectile makes him weak to zoners.
• His recovery is linear and somewhat predictable.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - B+
Running Speed - B+
Traction - A+
Jump Height - A-
Air Acceleration - B-
Fall Speed - B
Weight - B-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Twin Slash - A duo of slashes are performed, one after another, icy mist trailing behind both. The first slash deals more damage, while the later slash deals more knockback.
Forward Tilt - Wide Slash - Levi reaches his arm out to perform a longer-ranged slash. It is an in-between of the two slashes of his jab, with solid damage and knockback at the tip, however, it has more end-lag.
Up Tilt - Ice Spire - A vertical thrust upwards, the icy misty Levi's sword produces are used as weak hits to push up into the stronger hit.
Down Tilt - Slippery Blade - A small thrust aimed at the opponent's knee; if the tip hits, there is a chance to trip the opponent.
Back Tilt - Backwards Slash - Levi turns around to perform a horizontal slash. His laggiest move, but his most powerful in terms of raw damage.
Dash Attack - Dashing Cutter - A fast slash is performed, with a stronger late hit to KO opponents, however, the move has high-end lag.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Ice Crash - Levi charges ice on his blade to hammer into the ground. If you fully charge this attack, the resulting ice blast can freeze opponents in place.
Up Charge - Triple Blade - Levi slashes upwards in a crescent shape. The more he charges the attack, the more slashes he performs, maxing out at three slashes.
Down Charge - Twin Froster - Levi slashes downwards at both sides, his weakest in terms of damage, but his safest and longest ranged Charge Attack.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Hurricane Cutter - His fastest aerial and core combo tool. Levi spins around like a buzzsaw, his sword slashing around him. A very quick and safe move, only held back by middling damage.
Forward Air - Jump Slash - Levi lunges downward and his sword hits from above. This move gives him a recovery mixup due to speedening his descent when used. This move can spike when hit in the middle of the attack.
Up Air - Waxing Crescent - Levi slashes in an upward crescent motion, the tipper launching foes upwards as a vertical kill move.
Down Air - Waning Crescent - The previous attack is performed downwards, and the tipper is now able to spike opponents.
Back Air - Quarter Slash - Slashing in an upward angle backwards, Levi can use this attack as a get-off-me tool due to its high knockback.

Grabs:
Pummel - Knee Jab - A jab with his knee, quite a quick jab that trades some power for increased speed.
Forward Throw - Dragon Kick - Levi kicks the opponent forward, launching them back. A solid through that setup combos at low percentages and KOs at high percentages.
Down Throw - Dragon Stamp - A simple kick to the ground, though the kick is strong enough to bury opponents for combos. In terms of raw damage, this is Levi’s weakest throw.
Back Throw - Cobalt Suplex - A suplex throw gets performed, launching the foe back, a solid kill throw.
Up Throw - Icicle Blade - Levi tosses the foe and launched them upward, dealing the least knockback of all his throws but is the easier to combo with.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Blurry Flurry - Levi charges his sword to perform several forward strikes, followed by a final stronger attack. The speed of these strikes makes this a potent weapon, though the end-lag of the final strike is a notable hindrance. When used in the air, this move becomes a singular horizontal strike that travels longer the more you charge, aiding in recovery.

• Neutral Hyper - Blue Blade - Canceling the charge, Levi instead performs a singular thrust forward while the blade is enwrapped in ice. If the tipper is hit, the opponent is launched while encased in ice. The attack has less recovery utility but lacks the charge needed to launch Levi forward, so its some give and take.

Side Special - Tempest Winds - Levi performs a crescent slash that launches a tempest of ice forward. This move charges over time passively, and at higher charges more icy wind is launched, freezing the opponent at full charge.

• Side Hyper - Tempest Slash - Levi unleashes a series of strikes above their head while rising into the air. This move can be directed to head in any direction, including downwards. The last hit deals considerably more knockback than the rest. This move trades its freezing capabilities for a strong recovery tool.

Down Special - Counterslash - A counterattack, when Levi gets hit, he instead deals 1.2x damage of what you would have gotten to the attacker. Using this attack also pauses his midair momentum.

• Down Hyper - Freeze Counter - The counter now freezes the opponent in place in a block of ice, but the counter now only deals 1.1x damage, again some give and take.

Up Special - Cryo Slash - Levi slashes upwards with his ice-coated sword. This recovery move has a very strong vertical distance but very poor horizontal drift, though the fact it has invincibility on the first hits does make up for that somewhat.

• Up Hyper - Cryo Buster - A higher-damaging version of Cryo Slash that also leaps Levi at a more diagonal angle, making it a better recovery tool. Unlike base Cryo Slash, this is a strong single-hit attack rather than a multi-hit.

Hypermax Attacks -
Level 1 - Vital Strike - Performing a crouching pose, Levi then slashes with a short-ranged but highly damaging strike that sends foes into a crumpled state. The high-end lag of this attack makes it highly risky to pull out, but it's no less potent of an attack.
Level 2 - Halberg - A spin-attack is performed, attacking both sides. While the attack is used, Levi spreads icy mist that instantly freezes opponents who get hit by the attack’s tipper.
Level 3 - Leviathan Blizzard - Levi’s longest ranged attack, he charges his blade, the ice shaping it into a leviathan, before he crashes the attack into the ground, dealing massive damage and knockback. One of the strongest attacks in terms of raw damage, but his laggiest as well.

I like some of the changes but take issue with a few others as well. After that just some name nitpicks. (Why does the ice fighter have a move named after a tropical storm?)

I'll go into more detail once I get off work, though I might not post until preeety late since I'm not out until midnight.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I like some of the changes but take issue with a few others as well. After that just some name nitpicks. (Why does the ice fighter have a move named after a tropical storm?)

I'll go into more detail once I get off work, though I might not post until preeety late since I'm not out until midnight.

Okay, be on the lookout for Wynnie as well, since she is being developed as we speak.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I like some of the changes but take issue with a few others as well. After that just some name nitpicks. (Why does the ice fighter have a move named after a tropical storm?)

I'll go into more detail once I get off work, though I might not post until preeety late since I'm not out until midnight.

Partially made Wynnie's kit, had a bit more trouble than Levi. I intended her to be a bit more bruiserish, with some kicks and tail slaps mixed in to reflect her less refined fighting style, to contrast Levi. She is also intended to be a bit weirder than Levi, with odd properties on some of her attacks, and unconventional mechanics. I do feel I want your help refining her potential gameplan, as well as the duo's reworked role in the lore due to the changes to the world this game takes place in, how you like them Kirbeh .

 

[Glubbfubb]

I feel like I perfected the meter mechanic in this game, want some feedback...

Hyper Stars
Before you start the match, you select one of three Hypermax Attacks, each with a varying amount of stars attached to them. To use these attacks, you need to fill up all the stars to use your selected attack. You can fill these stars by either dealing damage to opponents or receiving damage, though you fill-up stars much quicker by the former than the latter. You can also spend one of your accumulated stars to enhance your special moves into Hyper Specials, making them stronger or gaining new properties, in a few cases, even completely changing the move. Once you collect a star though, you aren't completely safe, if the opponent lines up a Charge Attack, or Shieldburst, you will lose a star, meaning you have to consider when and how you want to spend your stars. This also adds extra dimensions to the number of stars needed to use a Hypermax Attack, as picking the one that needs the least amount of stars means you can't hold onto as many Hyper Specials, while picking a Hypermax Attack with a higher star cost means it takes longer to charge, but you can save more Hyper Specials.

Stamina
The other meter is the Stamina Meter, which allows you to perform special movement options, from enhancing existing movement options to giving entirely new ones. Stamina accumulates automatically when you are grounded, either by standing or walking, and stamina will pause when you are airborne, shielding, or using attacks. Stamina allows you to run with the press of a button, offering an even faster movement option than your standard ground movement. It can be used to enhance your base jump into a higher Longjump, allowing better air positioning in the process. Further compounding increased air maneuverability, Stamina offers the ability to air dash in any of the cardinal directions, air dodge, and perform other functions. However, Stamina has some risks, if you run out of stamina when doing these actions, you will instead trip or be sent into freefall, meaning proper meter usage is required to efficiently move in the game. The most notable use of Stamina When you get KO'd, your Stamina Meter gets cut in half, punishing you for playing poorly, so staying healthy is key. Some status effects can also affect Stamina, getting burned drains your Stamina over time, getting paralysed freezes your Stamina in place, and bleeding will cause your Stamina to reduce if you use normal attacks, adding dimensions to the mechanic.

The goal of these meters is to offer some resource management in the heat of battle. Your character theoretically has more movement options compared to other platform fighters, but you need to think and work out when you want to use these movement options, creating a unique dichotomy that will definitely give the game a unique feel.

How does this look Kirbeh , I spent some time thinking about this mechanic, I think for a game like this these are the ideal ways to use these meters.

 

[Kirbeh]

I feel like I perfected the meter mechanic in this game, want some feedback...

Hyper Stars
Before you start the match, you select one of three Hypermax Attacks, each with a varying amount of stars attached to them.

Okay, so going back to the Street Fighter 3 inspiration then.

Once you collect a star though, you aren't completely safe, if the opponent lines up a Charge Attack, or Shieldburst, you will lose a star, meaning you have to consider when and how you want to spend your stars.

This is where I get a little concerned though. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, getting hit by any Charge Attack will just knock you down a star? (Also, remind me what Shield Burst is in your game btw, iirc you were previously against a burst mechanic weren't you?)

Stamina
Stamina allows you to run with the press of a button, offering an even faster movement option than your standard ground movement.

Something as basic as running costs stamina? That's certainly a choice, but I sort of the see the idea here. This would definitely slow the game down, which isn't inherently a bad thing, but it feels counterintuitive to a platform fighter if I'm being honest. Even in more traditional 2D fighters like King of Fighters and Skullgirls, characters that can run, can do so freely.

The pause on recovery while airborne is also super weird to me. A lot of the fighting in platform fighters takes place while airborne; you know, while moving platform to platform. I feel like this simply encourages players to jump around for movement as much as possible. Characters with good air mobility also get an inherent advantage as more ground focused fighters are hamstrung by their basic movement having a cost.

It can be used to enhance your base jump into a higher Longjump

Just call it a High Jump/Hi-Jump or Super Jump. The former communicates the height advantage, and the latter is a better overall descriptor if it functions for both height and distance. Calling it a long jump gives the wrong impression as a long jump is, well, long, not high.

The most notable use of Stamina When you get KO'd, your Stamina Meter gets cut in half, punishing you for playing poorly, so staying healthy is key.

This I also have a problem with. So, you get KO'd and upon respawning, you get put at a further disadvantage? This is like a weird reverse of a comeback mechanic. Already losing? Let's make that worse for you. Even worse that's it the mobility resource. If you absolutely have to have something like this, I think it'd be much fairer for the stock loss to also result in a star loss instead. This makes both the character, and their Stars less easily gimped like your current setup.

Some status effects can also affect Stamina, getting burned drains your Stamina over time, getting paralysed freezes your Stamina in place, and bleeding will cause your Stamina to reduce if you use normal attacks, adding dimensions to the mechanic.

These are mostly fine.

I did look at Levi & Wynnie's updated kits btw. I haven't been quite able to keep up given my current work schedule, but the rework of Rudder and Vespa is still in progress, though I'll be adding some comments on Levi/Wynnie to it as well. It's going to be a fairly long post, as I've been adding to it trying to address all your new posts.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Okay, so going back to the Street Fighter 3 inspiration then.


This is where I get a little concerned though. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, getting hit by any Charge Attack will just knock you down a star? (Also, remind me what Shield Burst is in your game btw, iirc you were previously against a burst mechanic weren't you?)


Something as basic as running costs stamina? That's certainly a choice, but I sort of the see the idea here. This would definitely slow the game down, which isn't inherently a bad thing, but it feels counterintuitive to a platform fighter if I'm being honest. Even in more traditional 2D fighters like King of Fighters and Skullgirls, characters that can run, can do so freely.

The pause on recovery while airborne is also super weird to me. A lot of the fighting in platform fighters takes place while airborne; you know, while moving platform to platform. I feel like this simply encourages players to jump around for movement as much as possible. Characters with good air mobility also get an inherent advantage as more ground focused fighters are hamstrung by their basic movement having a cost.


Just call it a High Jump/Hi-Jump or Super Jump. The former communicates the height advantage, and the latter is a better overall descriptor if it functions for both height and distance. Calling it a long jump gives the wrong impression as a long jump is, well, long, not high.


This I also have a problem with. So, you get KO'd and upon respawning, you get put at a further disadvantage? This is like a weird reverse of a comeback mechanic. Already losing? Let's make that worse for you. Even worse that's it the mobility resource. If you absolutely have to have something like this, I think it'd be much fairer for the stock loss to also result in a star loss instead. This makes both the character, and their Stars less easily gimped like your current setup.


These are mostly fine.

I did look at Levi & Wynnie's updated kits btw. I haven't been quite able to keep up given my current work schedule, but the rework of Rudder and Vespa is still in progress, though I'll be adding some comments on Levi/Wynnie to it as well. It's going to be a fairly long post, as I've been adding to it trying to address all your new posts.

I want a way for opponents to remove stars, that way there is some risk to hoarding stars for Hypermax Attacks. If there are better methods I'll take suggestions. I think the star system is better in my opinion, so I prefer keeping it. I may remove the pausing in the air when you air-dodge since that will be the air-dash's role now. I am open to suggestions, I just want to keep the current idea of the Star Meter being linked to offense, while the Stamina Meter is about movement and defense. Keep in mind walking is much faster on average across the roster, like Aremi's max walking speed is comparable to Pikachu's, running speed. Think of the run as a third gear of speed, does that make sense?

 

[Kirbeh]

I want a way for opponents to remove stars, that way there is some risk to hoarding stars for Hypermax Attacks. If there are better methods I'll take suggestions.

The base idea is fine, I think it offers a fresh take that you don't see too often (closest thing I can think of is the Stars from Punch-Out!! for the Wii.)

I just think that tying their loss to charge attacks doesn't make as much sense as losing a star alongside a stock. Smash/Charge attacks are often used for closing stocks anyway so:

A) Players aren't going to be fishing for Charge moves too often as is.

B) If you manage to survive the Charge, it feels odd to penalize the defending player further, they already took big damage from it.

Keep in mind walking is much faster on average across the roster, like Aremi's max walking speed is comparable to Pikachu's, running speed. Think of the run as a third gear of speed, does that make sense?

That just makes it more confusing honestly.

If that's the case, then everyone is just powerwalking across the stage? Or in most cases they would be running at that point anyway. I understand the idea of having a faster movement option tied to stamina, but if characters can achieve running speed by walking then just make that running like it normally would be and make the third option into something else.

Maybe make it like the Boost in Sonic where you can continually hold it down until you run out of stamina. Have it use the same running animation, but the character gains an aura around them and the actual running speed is increased by 1.5x or something. You could even keep the naming scheme going and call it Hyper Drive to match with Hyper Stars, Hyper Specials and Hypermax moves.

 

[Glubbfubb]

The base idea is fine, I think it offers a fresh take that you don't see too often (closest thing I can think of is the Stars from Punch-Out!! for the Wii.)

I just think that tying their loss to charge attacks doesn't make as much sense as losing a star alongside a stock. Smash/Charge attacks are often used for closing stocks anyway so:

A) Players aren't going to be fishing for Charge moves too often as is.

B) If you manage to survive the Charge, it feels odd to penalize the defending player further, they already took big damage from it.


That just makes it more confusing honestly.

If that's the case, then everyone is just powerwalking across the stage? Or in most cases they would be running at that point anyway. I understand the idea of having a faster movement option tied to stamina, but if characters can achieve running speed by walking then just make that running like it normally would be and make the third option into something else.

Maybe make it like the Boost in Sonic where you can continually hold it down until you run out of stamina. Have it use the same running animation, but the character gains an aura around them and the actual running speed is increased by 1.5x or something. You could even keep the naming scheme going and call it Hyper Drive to match with Hyper Stars, Hyper Specials and Hypermax moves.

I need to look into that idea, by the way. Here are the costs for actions that take Stamina:

Airdodge - 20
Airboost - 20
Hyperjump - 20
Run - I timed a full bar of stamina as allowing you to run max 5 seconds.

Since Stamina is gotten automatically, I want to implement a penalty where if you use an action that takes more stamina than you have, you will either trip or be sent into freefall, depending on if it is a ground or air movement. I don't know if this is a good idea really, but I want there to be some penalty if you don't manage your stamina properly. You gain stamina by being grounded, so this means sooner or later you have to land if you want to refill stamina. I don't know if this will harm my game, but I want some feedback on this penalty idea. I feel regenerating stamina by being grounded is a good mechanic regardless, encourages more grounded gameplay IMO.

 

[Kirbeh]

I need to look into that idea, by the way. Here are the costs for actions that take Stamina:

Airdodge - 20
Airboost - 20
Hyperjump - 20
Run - I timed a full bar of stamina as allowing you to run max 5 seconds.

Since Stamina is gotten automatically, I want to implement a penalty where if you use an action that takes more stamina than you have, you will either trip or be sent into freefall, depending on if it is a ground or air movement. I don't know if this is a good idea really, but I want there to be some penalty if you don't manage your stamina properly. You gain stamina by being grounded, so this means sooner or later you have to land if you want to refill stamina. I don't know if this will harm my game, but I want some feedback on this penalty idea. I feel regenerating stamina by being grounded is a good mechanic regardless, encourages more grounded gameplay IMO.

All of this is fine imo, though I would at least change the freefall into a sort of aerial tumble to make it more equivalent to tripping on the ground.

The penalty mechanics add more layers to smartly managing your stamina but freefall would basically be a death sentence if you were already off stage.

Tripping leaves you open but you can still quickly get back to your feet. You get penalized but aren't completely helpless. The same should apply in the air where you're arguably already in a worse position if the opponent is given the opportunity for a free hit.

As for stamina regeneration I would say that you could make it recover in the air too but not when attacking or performing other actions. You have to be just falling or at most drifting left or right.

Overall stamina regeneration on the ground could also faster to incentivize landing as soon as possible and remaining grounded when low on stamina.

 

[Glubbfubb]

All of this is fine imo, though I would at least change the freefall into a sort of aerial tumble to make it more equivalent to tripping on the ground.

The penalty mechanics add more layers to smartly managing your stamina but freefall would basically be a death sentence if you were already off stage.

Tripping leaves you open but you can still quickly get back to your feet. You get penalized but aren't completely helpless. The same should apply in the air where you're arguably already in a worse position if the opponent is given the opportunity for a free hit.

As for stamina regeneration I would say that you could make it recover in the air too but not when attacking or performing other actions. You have to be just falling or at most drifting left or right.

Overall stamina regeneration on the ground could also faster to incentivize landing as soon as possible and remaining grounded when low on stamina.

What would an aerial tumble even look like, from both a physical and mechanical standpoint? My idea is that you reach an awkward position in the air and you to spend some time readjusting yourself, still being able to move but not able to attack, so a temporary freefall if you will. Stamina recharges at a reasonable pace already, taking a second and a half to go from 0 to full, which may sound short but in the heat of battle taking a second to rest can be huge for the opponent.

 

[Kirbeh]

What would an aerial tumble even look like, from both a physical and mechanical standpoint? My idea is that you reach an awkward position in the air and you to spend some time readjusting yourself, still being able to move but not able to attack, so a temporary freefall if you will. Stamina recharges at a reasonable pace already, taking a second and a half to go from 0 to full, which may sound short but in the heat of battle taking a second to rest can be huge for the opponent.

The aerial tumble would look pretty much like it does in Smash. Some attacks and other interactions can cause it, but you can most commonly see when getting foot-stooled in midair.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tumbling

It's basically (not exact but close) what you're trying to do but you're referring to both states as freefall.

 

[Glubbfubb]

The aerial tumble would look pretty much like it does in Smash. Some attacks and other interactions can cause it, but you can most commonly see when getting foot-stooled in midair.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Tumbling

It's basically (not exact but close) what you're trying to do but you're referring to both states as freefall.

I see, my idea for tumbling was that you enter an awkward pose and can't attack until the character reorientates themselves, so again a temporary freefall.

Also, just so you know, there won't be footstooling; I never got that mechanic and it feels especially cheesy in a game like this.

Otherwise, I feel the Stamina mechanic is okay as is, just need to rework the freefalling and turn it into tumbling.

 

[Kirbeh]

I see, my idea for tumbling was that you enter an awkward pose and can't attack until the character reorientates themselves, so again a temporary freefall.

Yeah, that's more or less what tumbling in Smash is, which is why I brought it up...

You were using the term "free fall" to describe both actual free fall and tumbling which is why I assumed you were leaving characters completely helpless.

Also, just so you know, there won't be footstooling; I never got that mechanic and it feels especially cheesy in a game like this.

Didn't think it would be, nor do I think it fits your game.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Yeah, that's more or less what tumbling in Smash is, which is why I brought it up...

You were using the term "free fall" to describe both actual free fall and tumbling which is why I assumed you were leaving characters completely helpless.


Didn't think it would be, nor do I think it fits your game.

Footstools would likely be a pain to program, and I have to already worry about how to get the grabs and Smash DI just right, so something as superfluous as Footstooling seems unnecessary.

With all these new movement options, now I need to figure out how to design stages that accommodate a game engine with more extreme movement options. Maybe make the stages bigger to accommodate the new movement options, that could work ngl. I am trying to make a new style of platfighter that takes advantage of the platformer aspect of platfighters to experiment with new movement options.

 

[Kirbeh]

Footstools would likely be a pain to program, and I have to already worry about how to get the grabs and Smash DI just right, so something as superfluous as Footstooling seems unnecessary.

I mean, again, no one was expecting or is asking for footstools in Sigma Busters. I only brought it up so you could see an example of the tumbling animation.

With all these new movement options, now I need to figure out how to design stages that accommodate a game engine with more extreme movement options. Maybe make the stages bigger to accommodate the new movement options, that could work ngl. I am trying to make a new style of platfighter that takes advantage of the platformer aspect of platfighters to experiment with new movement options.

I would say the average stage size should probably be a bit bigger than that of Smash or Rivals depending on how you want to handle the speed boosting. Characters would in theory cover a lot of ground pretty quickly using that along with the hyper jump and air dashing.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I mean, again, no one was expecting or is asking for footstools in Sigma Busters. I only brought it up so you could see an example of the tumbling animation.


I would say the average stage size should probably be a bit bigger than that of Smash or Rivals depending on how you want to handle the speed boosting. Characters would in theory cover a lot of ground pretty quickly using that along with the hyper jump and air dashing.

Honestly, something like Big Battlefield, though maybe a bit smaller, but that's what I'll likely aim for.

 

[Kirbeh]

Honestly, something like Big Battlefield, though maybe a bit smaller, but that's what I'll likely aim for.

So, as a slight preview of the current write up, what do you think of the name Celestine? It's the name of a mineral that can form in geodes, (with the world's largest geode actually being a celestine geode.)

I mentioned back when you first brought it up, that the more earth-based cicada character would be better as a separate concept from Vespa, and that's exactly what I tried to do.

I still intend for Vespa's design to be a bee and honey pot ant hybrid (as a side note, I saw your suggestion to change her body shape, and I will be doing that which you'll see in the full post.) And the ant part is where I'm creating the relationship between these two characters. Like the first concept we threw around of making the two kingdoms work together, Celestine's species is a cicada and ant hybrid, with both species being distinct but still related hence why they work well together. Both are the respective queens of their kingdoms but have a close relationship not just as a species but as friends/allies, essentially treating each other like family.

The adjustment to Vespa's body shape and overall design, along with her weapon of choice (still a stave/wand/rod based on honey dippers,) makes a direct Smash comparison a bit difficult, but I'd still compare her to King Dedede as I did before. A heavyweight with multiple short jumps.

Similarly, the move set I'm designing for Celestine doesn't really have a straightforward comparison I could make to an existing Smash character, but I'd place her closest to Ganondorf (pre-Ultimate), albeit with slightly less damage and slightly better mobility (plus, completely different specials and gameplan.) She's heavy and a bit sluggish but has good power behind her strikes.

Last thing I'll add is that while I'm adjusting Vespa's design, you're still going to see that particular body shape pop again (and no, it's not on Celestine.)

 

[Glubbfubb]

So, as a slight preview of the current write up, what do you think of the name Celestine? It's the name of a mineral that can form in geodes, (with the world's largest geode actually being a celestine geode.)

I mentioned back when you first brought it up, that the more earth-based cicada character would be better as a separate concept from Vespa, and that's exactly what I tried to do.

I still intend for Vespa's design to be a bee and honey pot ant hybrid (as a side note, I saw your suggestion to change her body shape, and I will be doing that which you'll see in the full post.) And the ant part is where I'm creating the relationship between these two characters. Like the first concept we threw around of making the two kingdoms work together, Celestine's species is a cicada and ant hybrid, with both species being distinct but still related hence why they work well together. Both are the respective queens of their kingdoms but have a close relationship not just as a species but as friends/allies, essentially treating each other like family.

The adjustment to Vespa's body shape and overall design, along with her weapon of choice (still a stave/wand/rod based on honey dippers,) makes a direct Smash comparison a bit difficult, but I'd still compare her to King Dedede as I did before. A heavyweight with multiple short jumps.

Similarly, the move set I'm designing for Celestine doesn't really have a straightforward comparison I could make to an existing Smash character, but I'd place her closest to Ganondorf (pre-Ultimate), albeit with slightly less damage and slightly better mobility (plus, completely different specials and gameplan.) She's heavy and a bit sluggish but has good power behind her strikes.

Last thing I'll add is that while I'm adjusting Vespa's design, you're still going to see that particular body shape pop again (and no, it's not on Celestine.)

I like that, I also wanted to update Chell now that she's the oldest outdated kit, I'll be posting that later today or the next day.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh alongside Chell, i might also rework Ahab, since i have an acutally cool idea for him. Instead of specifically a boxer, I'm also implementing some mixed martial art moves, so imagine a fusion of Little Mac, Barlog, DeeJay, etc. I'll say that due to some balancing factors, instead of a multi-jump I'm going to instead give him a Ness or Yoshi styled jump, one that is floatier and longer lasting, allowing Ahab to double jump cancel, thus still having an excellent air game. The overall idea now is that Ahab is slow on the ground, much like a stereotypical heavy, but has fantastic air stats, with excellent aerial movement.

 

[Kirbeh]

Kirbeh alongside Chell, i might also rework Ahab, since i have an acutally cool idea for him. Instead of specifically a boxer, I'm also implementing some mixed martial art moves, so imagine a fusion of Little Mac, Barlog, DeeJay, etc. I'll say that due to some balancing factors, instead of a multi-jump I'm going to instead give him a Ness or Yoshi styled jump, one that is floatier and longer lasting, allowing Ahab to double jump cancel, thus still having an excellent air game. The overall idea now is that Ahab is slow on the ground, much like a stereotypical heavy, but has fantastic air stats, with excellent aerial movement.

I think the changes to his jumps are a good call but I don't think the mixed martial arts angle works for Ahab personally. His proportions are top heavy with a large head and arms and shorter legs. He's not really built for throwing out kicks.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Spoiler: Chell's Kit

Name - Chell
Gender - Female
Species - Viprex
Origin - Chell is a mercenary, working under the guise of the law to perform morally dubious actions. She is considered one of the most feared bounty hunters in the galaxy and has no qualms about getting dirty when it comes to doing orders for her clients. Ironically, her mere presence acts as protection against the even worse criminals of the galaxy, meaning she has just as many allies as she does enemies. She doesn't consider herself a vigilante, though if the cards are down she can help the weak if it benefits her. This leaves her with an odd reception in the galaxy, some seeing her as a hero, and others a monstrous scoundrel, no in-between. Among the people who see her as a hero is her native planet of Viprus, who see her as a mythical folk hero due to protecting their way of life from the suffocating grasp of the corporations wanting to strip-mine the outback world for its resources, so if you want to be on Chell's bad side you should definitely harm a Viprex citizen.

Appearance - Chell is quite a tall figure, in terms of sheer height, she is the second tallest among the cast, just under LAMBDA. Her attire matches up with the attire of an Australian stockman, equivalent to American cowboys. She is clad in muddy colors, red, olive, and dark orange, with a large brown hat and long red scarf that trails in the wind. She has olive-green and pale-gray scales, with piercing golden eyes to give her an imposing aura when on the job. You can tell her presence by the sound of her heavy boots, made of thick leather and clad in heavy metal trimmings. Her attire has several compartments that house various weapons, from knives hidden in her gloves, blades in her boots, bullets under her hat, vials of poison in her sleeves, and a large, legally dubious hunting rifle on her back. She has several qualities of several snake species, her skin is as durable and comparable in texture to an anaconda, her long hair is styled and patterned like the hood of a cobra, even flaring open as she gets angry, and the inside of her mouth is jet black like the black mamba. Finally around her wrists are various thread bands, adorned with the teeth of the various creatures she killed as bounties. Overall an aloof and cold visage to belie a crafty opponent.

Archetype - Bruiser/Mixup
Gimmick - None
Intended Strengths -

• Chell's many pieces of weaponry can bring a variety of different mix-ups towards the opponent, making her a tricky foe to analyze.
• Chell's good weight makes her have excellent survivability, augmented by her flexible Up Special, Nitro Bullets.
• Chell has some of the more reliable spiking attacks in the game, making her good at sniping recoveries.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Chell has the worst air mobility of the cast, so despite having good aerial options, Chell lacks the movement speed to fully use those options.
• Some of her biggest attacks have high end-lag, meaning she can become a sitting duck if used improperly.
• Chell has a high skill ceiling, meaning she can be quite tricky to master.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - C-
Running Speed - B-
Traction - A+
Jump Height - B-
Air Acceleration - D+
Fall Speed - B
Weight - A-

Ground Moves:
Jab - Hunting Knife - Using one of her retractable knives, Chell slices at the opponent, dealing a weak knockback for a jab, but high damage. In terms of raw damage it is one of the strongest jabs in the game.
Forward Tilt - Roundhouse Kick - Chell winds up her leg to perform a roundhouse kick, while a bit on the slow side it is a strong kill move.

• Forward Tilt (Upper Diagonal Input) - Axe Kick - The animation starts to like the roundhouse kick, but Chell changes her posing to instead perform a quicker but weaker upward axe kick, a good mixup tool, and combo starter.

Up Tilt - Cobra Strike - Chell crouches downward and then performs an uppercut with her bladed fist. This attack has a rather odd timing, but the attack itself is a strong kill move and when crouched Chell both has minor super armor and low profile projectiles, meaning it could be used as a pseudo-counter.
Down Tilt - Iron Boot - Chell performs a hard stomp onto the ground, the power of which can spike opponents on the ground.
Back Tilt - Backstab - Chell turns around to stab from behind, the attack has a unique property where if the opponent has their back turned away the move deals more damage.
Dash Attack - Flying Viper - Chell jumps and tries to tackle the opponent, she is super vulnerable if it misses, but the initial attack is a potent kill move.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Blank Shot - Chell shoots out a blank shell in her rifle, which is basically a close-range explosive, and fittingly deals the most damage in point-blank range.
Up Charge - Meatcleaver - An uppercut, which has Chell strike the opponent upwards with her hunting knife, a potent attack with low end lag for a Charge Attack.
Down Charge - Iron Heels - A flying twin stomp, this has large start up, but has armor and can deal massive damage if it connects, even instantly breaking shields.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Twin Copter Kick - A pair of kicks, one after another, are performed forward in the air, each kick deals medium damage, so trying to link them for maximum damage is a must.
Forward Air - Flying Knife - Chell tosses her knife diagonally downward as a projectile while pushing her backwards in the air. This can be both a zoning option and a recovery boost.
Up Air - Sweeping Edge - An upwards sweeping kick, dealing the most damage when the target is placed into the middle of the move.
Down Air - Killing Stomp - A forceful, powerful stomp using all of Chell's strength and power to send opponents in a near-fatal spike toward the ground.
Back Air - Arching Fang - Taking her knife, Chell swings backwards with a downward strike; the tip of the knife can spike opponents downwards.

Grabs:
Pummel - Knee Jab - A strike from the knee, among the slowest and strongest pummels in the game.
Forward Throw - Tackle Tussle - Chell pushes the foe away with a tackle, a good kill throw.
Down Throw - Crushing Blow - Chell stomps so hard that the opponent is buried.
Back Throw - Bloody Stabber - Chell takes the opponent, stabs a knife into them, then tosses them backward. A weaker throw that leads into a tech-chase scenario.
Up Throw - Sharp Uppercut - A powerful uppercut gets thrust upwards into the opponent, the blades of which add some force to the attack.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Twin Bullets - Chell uses her shotgun to launch a pair of bullets. You can charge this move, the longer this move is charged the faster the bullets get shot, meaning you can do some mixup with this attack. The bullets are quite strong projectiles, but their linear range can make them easy to avoid at times.

• Neutral Hyper - Sniper Shot - Chell spawns a reticle that she controls across the screen with the right stick, firing a continuous line of bullets behind the reticle. This is a good defensive tool as you can use other moves alongside the Sniper Shot, leading into unique setplay.

Side Special - Viper Whip - Chell whips her long hair in a similar manner that a viper would strike at its prey. This is her fastest special, being able to reflect projectiles and deal high knockback, though the attack itself deals weak damage.

• Side Hyper - Killer Viper - Chell's hair whips a longer distance, increasing the range, but the force of the whip can also trip opponents, leaving them vulnerable to one of Chell's other moves.

Down Special - Grenade Kick - Chell reveals a grenade under her feet and she punts it forward. The angle the grenade travels is based on how hard you hit the special button, the harder you hit the button the farther it travels.

• Down Hyper - Explosive Mine - Chell digs a bomb into the ground, hidden from sight, if an opponent goes near the bomb it explodes as a trap. This includes Chell as well, so be careful when using this move if you don't want to explode yourself.

Up Special - Nitro Bullet - Chell shoots her shotgun downwards, boosting her in the air. Compared to most Up Specials, this one doesn't give her much vertical height, however she can shoot up to 3 bullets, meaning when combined the bullets give her a flexible recovery.

• Up Hyper - Jet Cannon - Chell fires flames from her shotgun, letting herself move like a rocket. Compared to her base special it does less damage but is a more consistent recovery option.

Hypermax Attacks -
Venom Charge - - Chell grabs a poison vial and splashes herself with it, making it so all of her melee attacks will poison the foe, while gaining a green aura in the process. When poisoned, the foe will be dealt damage over time.
Critical Shot - - Chell summons a larger reticle to guide, when the reticle locks onto a target, it will shoot a deadly bullet that can paralyze the target and deal massive damage. A dangerous move, but one that needs some finesse to use properly.
Knife Trigger - - Chell performs a short-ranged slash with a particularly sharp blade, while the attack has a very short range hitting the move will bleed out the target. This means any new action the target performs will take points off their stamina gauge, meaning they can't use as much overall.

Kirbeh made my rework of Chell using the new Star Meter. I decided to lower her weight from 2nd to 3rd heaviest fighter in the game, and have moves that are more appropriately snake-like while trying to flesh out what she does. For her character, I want to have a dichotomy where she is a rather nice person when off-duty on her home planet but a cold mercenary when off-world, which I think could have some nice interactions, I will post Ahab in a bit, hope you will like that too.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Spoiler: Ahab's Kit

Name - Mobius Ahab
Gender - Male
Species - Areocetacean
Origin - Ahab is a big man with a massive burden on his shoulders. Due to having to pay a debt from a group of loan sharks, literally in this case, he is forced to take many odd jobs in the Great Tide Nebula to make ends meet. He has been working as a busboy, bouncer, and most notably a fighter in the ring. As an Areocetacean, his massive frame belies a special type of air bladder that increases his aerodynamics, allowing him to be surprisingly agile as a fighter. Still, his desperation for money has led him to be part of illegal fight pits, and recently his last fight led to him giving a season-ending injury to the son of a mob boss, forcing him on the run as both the loan sharks and local mafia chase him down, forcing him to hide out in the secluded forest world of Birchum until all this beef subsides.

Appearance - Ahab is a large-bodies creature, resembling a humanoid sperm whale. Many years of working in brutal conditions have led him to have small scars on his arms and head, with a piece of shrapnel lodged into his tail as a "warning shot" from the debtors who want their loans paid. Ahab has a blue pair of boxing gloves, each having a word, spelling out "KNUCKLE BLUSTER." Ahab wears a pair of blue sneakers with some wear and tear, and a silver tooth replacing one he lost previously in the fight pits. His eyes are a mustard yellow, with his eyes gaining a redder color when he gets more damaged. Additionally, his blowhole periodically releases gas to maintain his special air bladder's aerodynamic properties, which puffs up with mist every time he does a double jump. Despite his rough exterior, Ahab loves to give a smile to the camera, giving him a boisterous visage in the ring.

Archetype - Bruiser
Gimmick - Air Bladder - Unlike most characters, Ahab's air bladder causes his double jump to slowly rise in the air. This makes his jump more powerful, but more importantly gives him aerial drift when jumping, giving him better overall air control. You can also cancel the double jump into an attack to double jump cancel into an aerial, much like Smash 64-Melee Ness, Yoshi, Mewtwo, and Peach.

Intended Strengths -

• Ahab is a powerful slugger who has an amazing air game, and his double jump cancel technique lets him augment that maneuverability further.
• For a heavyweight, Ahab has great mobility in the air, meaning he has good approaching tools.
• Ahab has a balanced combination of powerful single hits and combo tools, meaning he has a move for any situation.

Intended Weaknesses -

• Great air maneuverability comes at the cost of terrible ground movement, being one of the slowest fighters on the ground.
• A massive frame leaves him open to being combo food, like many heavies.
• Ahab's movement can be seen as awkward, making him have a bit of a high-skill ceiling.

Planned Stats: (Give a letter grade from E- to A+)
Walk Speed - E
Running Speed - D
Traction - B
Jump Height - A
Air Acceleration - A+
Fall Speed - B-
Weight - A

Ground Moves:
Jab - Flurry Punch - Ahab strings together several quick punches, fitting for a boxer, with the option to end the chain into a right hook to launch foes back. Among the most basic jabs in the game, but one that is safe, quick, and reliable for combos.
Forward Tilt - Clapping Seal Punch - Ahab strikes the ground with his fist, a strong shield breaker option, though the end-lag leaves something to be desired.
Up Tilt - Sky Uppercut - An uppercut with some force, sending Ahab a bit into the air after use, which can be used to combo into an aerial move.
Down Tilt - Sweeping Punch - A below-the-belt punch that launches the foe upwards, confirming into his aerials.
Back Tilt - Great White Strike - A slow punch from behind, Ahab's laggiest tilt, but his strongest in terms of raw kill power, so there is some risk and reward to the move.
Dash Attack - Crashing Wave - Ahab bends over, before swinging his fist into the head of an opponent, among the slowest dash attacks in the game, but one of the strongest as well.

Charge Attacks:
Side Charge - Twisting Knuckle - Ahab twists his fist to charge a powerful single punch. The unique motion causes a vacuum to appear in front of the punch, destroying any projectile in the punch's way.
Up Charge - Clocking Overhead - A brutal uppercut that deals three hits, if all three hits connect, then the opponent is launched upwards greatly.
Down Charge - Heavy Storm Fist - Ahab charges a series of punches while performing a spinning lariat, hitting the opponent one after another before a final punch.

Aerials:
Neutral Air - Storm Swinger - A one-two punch in the air, among the fastest aerials in the game and is great for setting up combos.
Forward Air - Thundercracker - Ahab takes his fists together and hammers the opponent downward, creating a potent spike.
Up Air - Spin Cycle - Ahab punches in a circular motion, spinning slowly like a buzzsaw. A multi-hit that can combo on the bottom and kill at the top, but doesn't do much on the sides.
Down Air - Breaching Motion - Ahab spins his tail downwards, dealing the most damage at the middle of the tail hitbox. Using this move also stalls Ahab's descent, aiding in his air game.
Back Air - Circle Breaker - A unique back air that can hit in a manual two-hit combo, like a jab; the second hit has the unique property of turning Ahab around, letting him pivot quickly in the air.

Grabs:
Pummel - Clench - A punch to the gut, a reasonable pummel in terms of damage and speed.
Forward Throw - Sweeping Launcher - Ahab socks the foe forward with a good fist into the gut, a solid throw all things considered.
Down Throw - Wind Clapper - Ahab claps the opponent with his gloves, stunning them for follow-up combos.
Back Throw - Arching Storm Throw - Ahab scoops the opponent with his gloves, before launching them over his shoulders, making a good kill throw.
Up Throw - Thunderous Uppercut - An uppercut with the force of a storm, sending the foe upwards to combo into Ahab's aerials.

Specials:
Neutral Special - Cyclone Knuckle - Ahab charges his fist to perform a hook that propels him forward. On the ground the attack is a powerful finishing move, while in the air the charge is halved and the distance traveled is greater, but the damage is halved as well.

• Neutral Hyper - Vacuum Shot - Ahab launches the air radiating from his fist as a projectile, the pattern of which depends on the input. Normally the attack is a single, medium-sized, somewhat sluggish projectile, but if you tilt the stick in the opposite direction Ahab is facing when he redies the move, he instead launches a pair of faster but weaker projectiles, adding some mixup to his game.

Side Special - Gust Cannon - Ahab charges mist in his blow hole that he can store for later, so he can then shoot a tornado projectile that spins along the floor, getting bigger the more its charged. When he stores the mist his jump height increases by 25%, but his weight decreases by 25%, changing how he plays, meaning there are some benefits to keeping a charged Gust Cannon. If Ahab holds the charge for too long he loses the projectile and therefore the changed physics.

• Side Hyper - Storm Tornado - Ahab creates a black tornado projectile that has a much shorter range than the tornados of the Gust Cannon, but its a multihit that can paralyze foes, leading into combos.

Down Special - Bluff - A counterattack, one that always sends the foe in an upward angle if it connects, having a 1.3x damage multiplier. If used successfully, Ahab dashes a bit forward, increasing his horizontal recovery.

• Down Hyper - Perfect Bluff - The counter window is much shorter, making it a riskier move to use, but it now has a 1.5x damage multiplier while sending Ahab a bit more forward.

Up Special - Closeline Lariat - Ahab spins around like a tornado, sucking in foes like a hurricane before launching them out. If the move's input is angled straight up, the attack has a diagonal angle, making the move faster but the hits weaker, while the opposite is true if the input is angled, as that has Ahab spin in a horizontal direction, being stronger but slower. In the air, the diagonal version has higher vertical recovery but worse horizontal recovery, while the opposite is true for the horizontal version. Either way after use Ahab is sent into freefall, so make sure you make the right choice.

• Up Hyper - Hurricane Closeline - A mix of both versions of the Closeline Lariat, mixing the diagonal version's speed with the horizontal version's power. In the air, this move starts horizontally, but you can press the special button to send the move into a more vertical angle like a propeller, though this move still sends Ahab into freefall.

Hypermax Attacks -
Lightning Strike - - Ahab dashes forward as fast as lightning with a blinding fast punch, tripping any opponent they cross.
Lightweight Knuckle - - Ahab shoots a special punch at the foe, wrapping them with wind. When they are covered in wind, their weight and airspeed halve, making them easier to intercept.
The Mighty Knuckle Bluster - - Ahab's highest damaging attack and his signature attack in the ring, where he launches the foe up with an uppercut before continuously rising in the air, finishing them off with a final hit. His strongest Hypermax Attack by far, but has one of the highest star costs of any, at a whopping eight, which combined with its risky aftereffect of sending Ahab into freefall afterwards makes this just as much dangerous to Ahab as it does to the foe.

Kirbeh this may be my most ideal set for Ahab, it has all the hallmarks of a great kit, solid move concepts, a unique unifying vision, some lore in his design and moves, and even some unique nuances like some of his attacks having motion inputs. Check it out if you have the chance, I think I perfected Ahab, who used to be my main problem character.

 

[Kirbeh]

this may be my most ideal set for Ahab, it has all the hallmarks of a great kit, solid move concepts, a unique unifying vision, some lore in his design and moves, and even some unique nuances like some of his attacks having motion inputs. Check it out if you have the chance, I think I perfected Ahab, who used to be my main problem character.

If I can be perfectly blunt, I feel the opposite on this one. There are some new additions that I think are great, but as a whole this actually feels sloppier than your usual proposals.

Name - Mobius Ahab
Gender - Female

I know it almost seems like I'm nagging you about it at this point, but please, proofread your posts. A few errors are going to slip past anyone in any writing, but this is right at the beginning and not close to being the last.

Right after reading the character's name, there's already a pretty big mistake. When I first opened the spoiler, I thought you'd entirely changed directions by replacing Ahab with a new female character and just kept Ahab as a surname as a nod to the original concept.

Origin - Ahab is a big man with a massive burden on his shoulders. Due to having to pay a debt from a group of loan sharks, literally in this case, he is forced to take many odd jobs in the Great Tide Nebula to make ends meet. He has been working as a busboy, bouncer, and most notably a fighter in the ring. As an Areocetacean, his massive frame belies a special type of air bladder that increases his aerodynamics, allowing him to be surprisingly agile as a fighter. Still, his desperation for money has led him to be part of illegal fight pits, and recently his last fight led to him giving a season-ending injury to the son of a mob boss, forcing him on the run as both the loan sharks and local mafia chase him down, forcing him to hide out in the secluded forest world of Birchum until all this beef subsides.

Story hook is good, no complaints there.

Appearance - Many years of working in brutal conditions have led him to have small scars on his arms and head, with a piece of shrapnel lodged into his tail as a "warning shot" from the debtors who want their loans paid. Ahab has a blue pair of boxing gloves, each having a word, spelling out "KNUCKLE BLUSTER." Ahab wears a pair of blue sneakers with some wear and tear, and a silver tooth replacing one he lost previously in the fight pits.

So, he replaced a tooth but didn't get the shrapnel removed from his tail? Something that would cause constant pain and be at risk of infection? Even if you're working in a fictional setting, suspension of disbelief is something you need to account for. There's no logical reason for Ahab to just leave the shrapnel in his tail.

I'll add more scars to his design, but I'm not adding the random shrapnel.

His eyes are a mustard yellow, with his eyes gaining a redder color when he gets more damaged.

Funnily enough, I was also planning on making his eyes yellow. Are the red eyes supposed to signify Ahab getting angrier the more damage he takes or what's the deal with the color change? I feel like this is the sort of thing you'd add to visually represent a mechanic of some kind.

Additionally, his blowhole periodically releases gas to maintain his special air bladder's aerodynamic properties, which puffs up with mist every time he does a double jump.

The wording here is a bit odd. Does he puff up (inflating the air bladder) whenever he double jumps, or does he puff air out from his blowhole when double jumping?

Despite his rough exterior, Ahab loves to give a smile to the camera, giving him a boisterous visage in the ring.

This is also odd wording. Someone who smiles as the camera isn't someone, you'd necessarily describe as boisterous. Rather, him giving a smile to the camera could be showing off another side to him in spite of being considered boisterous by others.

Is it a smug or cocky smile? Friendly to show a softer side? Does he just like the attention? Is he playing it up to either put on a show for the crowd? Or is he putting on a brave face despite not being so confident on the inside? There's a lot of angles that can be interpreted there if you word it in a somewhat vague fashion like that.

Forward Tilt - Clapping Seal Punch - Ahab strikes the ground with his fist, a strong shield breaker option, though the end-lag leaves something to be desired.

I'm once again going to pick apart your naming/action/word choice.

The name should be based on the move. When a player reads the move name, it should give them an idea of what the move could be even before they read the actual description or use it in game. Even if it comes with a full description afterward, names themselves are descriptors.

It doesn't have to be literal, but it should relate to some degree.

If I read "clapping seal," how does that then translate to punching the ground?

Down Tilt - Sweeping Punch - A below-the-belt punch that launches the foe upwards, confirming into his aerials.

Similarly, the use of "below-the-belt" seems unnecessary. I get the callback to boxing since sweeping the legs, targeting knees, shins, etc. is illegal but:

1. This doesn't actually tell me what kind of punch he's throwing.

2. By virtue of being a Down Tilt, it's generally understood that the attack is going to hit low. It'd make more sense pointing it out if the attack hit high despite being a low input because this would actually run counter to people's expectations of a Down Tilt.

Back Tilt - Great White Strike - A slow punch from behind, Ahab's laggiest tilt, but his strongest in terms of raw kill power, so there is some risk and reward to the move.

The punch would be aimed behind, not come from behind. I know you might see this as nitpicky, but this why I often take issue with a lot of your descriptions. You aren't actually describing things properly, which can lead to confusion and incorrect interpretations of what you actually had in mind.

Up Charge - Clocking Overhead - A brutal uppercut that deals three hits, if all three hits connect, then the opponent is launched upwards greatly.

Another wording thing here. I understand that you probably used overhead because the attack is aimed above Ahab's head, but if that's the case you could have just used uppercut (which you do in the description at least.) An overhead punch is more commonly going to interpreted as a strike aimed down at the opponent from overhead in their perspective. Think of overheads in 2D fighters. These are attacks aimed at crouching opponents, hitting them overhead.

Down Charge - Heavy Storm Fist - Ahab charges a series of punches while performing a spinning lariat, hitting the opponent one after another before a final punch.

Is he throwing a series of punches or doing a Zangief? Those are two very different things. You could have just as easily left it as spinning lariat or double lariat/clothesline and it would have been easier to understand. Or something concise like, "A double lariat while spinning. Hits multiple times."

Up Air - Spin Cycle - Ahab punches in a circular motion, spinning slowly like a buzzsaw. A multi-hit that can combo on the bottom and kill at the top, but doesn't do much on the sides.

Buzzsaws spin fast. Why would you use them as example of something that spins slowly? The action descriptor also doesn't do a good job of actually telling me the way his body is moving.

Given that it's an Up Air I can infer that he's probably punching upward and using enough force to flip his whole body in midair but that's not being communicated properly. The mention of the buzzsaw is actually what communicates the motion better, but then you go and describe it as slow.

The fact that's a multi-hit also makes being slow a strange choice.

Down Air - Breaching Motion - Ahab spins his tail downwards, dealing the most damage at the middle of the tail hitbox. Using this move also stalls Ahab's descent, aiding in his air game.

The word "breach" was a good choice here as it relates to whales, but I think you fumbled where you used it. A whale that is breaching is leaping up from water, not going down. A move designed after breaching would also make more sense as a full body attack as opposed to a tail whip.

Back Air - Circle Breaker - A unique back air that can hit in a manual two-hit combo, like a jab; the second hit has the unique property of turning Ahab around, letting him pivot quickly in the air.

This move is perfectly fine, I just want you to explain the name to me.

Pummel - Clench - A punch to the gut, a reasonable pummel in terms of damage and speed.

Boxers clinch, not clench. Clinching is a hold; the actual pummel would be a body blow. If you wanted something more specific you could have literally called it Gut Punch.

Forward Throw - Sweeping Launcher - Ahab socks the foe forward with a good fist into the gut, a solid throw all things considered.

Ditto to the above, this could have been called Gut Punch. If you wanted a sweeping motion, you could have made F-Throw a hook punch instead.

Down Throw - Wind Clapper - Ahab claps the opponent with his gloves, stunning them for follow-up combos.

Missed opportunity to call this Thunderclap. Especially if there's no actual wind involved here.

Neutral Special - Cyclone Knuckle - Ahab charges his fist to perform a hook that propels him forward. On the ground the attack is a powerful finishing move, while in the air the charge is halved and the distance traveled is greater, but the damage is halved as well.

• Neutral Hyper - Vacuum Shot - Ahab launches the air radiating from his fist as a projectile, the pattern of which depends on the input. Normally the attack is a single, medium-sized, somewhat sluggish projectile, but if you tilt the stick in the opposite direction Ahab is facing when he redies the move, he instead launches a pair of faster but weaker projectiles, adding some mixup to his game.

I don't want this whole thing to be negatives, so I do want to highlight this because I like it a lot. I do think the Hyper version should be tweaked a little, but I'll include that in the write up.

Down Special - Bluff - A counterattack, one that always sends the foe in an upward angle if it connects, having a 1.3x damage multiplier. If used successfully, Ahab dashes a bit forward, increasing his horizontal recovery.

• Down Hyper - Perfect Bluff - The counter window is much shorter, making it a riskier move to use, but it now has a 1.5x damage multiplier while sending Ahab a bit more forward.

A little disappointed that we're just going for another counter move, but at the same time if any character's going to have one, the boxer makes perfect sense.

Up Special - Closeline Lariat - Ahab spins around like a tornado, sucking in foes like a hurricane before launching them out. If the move's input is angled straight up, the attack has a diagonal angle, making the move faster but the hits weaker, while the opposite is true if the input is angled, as that has Ahab spin in a horizontal direction, being stronger but slower. In the air, the diagonal version has higher vertical recovery but worse horizontal recovery, while the opposite is true for the horizontal version. Either way after use Ahab is sent into freefall, so make sure you make the right choice.

• Up Hyper - Hurricane Closeline - A mix of both versions of the Closeline Lariat, mixing the diagonal version's speed with the horizontal version's power. In the air, this move starts horizontally, but you can press the special button to send the move into a more vertical angle like a propeller, though this move still sends Ahab into freefall.

So first, it's a clothesline, not close line. Second, a lariat is a different (but similar) move (though the two are often confused and in fighting games are sometimes used interchangeably due to characters like Zangief and Haggar having double clotheslines referred to as a double lariat.)

With the way fighting game terms are understood, you're practically calling the base version Lariat Lariat or Clothesline Clothesline.

I've got a few things to add regarding the actual move, but I'll keep those for later because it's very late for me at the time of writing.

Lightning Strike - - Ahab dashes forward as fast as lightning with a blinding fast punch, tripping any opponent they cross.

You did not just give this man a super that's sole use is to make opponents trip. And a Bionic Arm no less! Just make it an armored, burst option super like it's contemporaries.

Lightweight Knuckle - - Ahab shoots a special punch at the foe, wrapping them with wind. When they are covered in wind, their weight and airspeed halve, making them easier to intercept.

I have a lot to say about this one, but- later.
---

Still working on the multi-character write up, with Chell being added to it too now, but I wanted to address this one in particular.

 

[Glubbfubb]

If I can be perfectly blunt, I feel the opposite on this one. There are some new additions that I think are great, but as a whole this actually feels sloppier than your usual proposals.


I know it almost seems like I'm nagging you about it at this point, but please, proofread your posts. A few errors are going to slip past anyone in any writing, but this is right at the beginning and not close to being the last.

Right after reading the character's name, there's already a pretty big mistake. When I first opened the spoiler, I thought you'd entirely changed directions by replacing Ahab with a new female character and just kept Ahab as a surname as a nod to the original concept.



Story hook is good, no complaints there.


So, he replaced a tooth but didn't get the shrapnel removed from his tail? Something that would cause constant pain and be at risk of infection? Even if you're working in a fictional setting, suspension of disbelief is something you need to account for. There's no logical reason for Ahab to just leave the shrapnel in his tail.

I'll add more scars to his design, but I'm not adding the random shrapnel.


Funnily enough, I was also planning on making his eyes yellow. Are the red eyes supposed to signify Ahab getting angrier the more damage he takes or what's the deal with the color change? I feel like this is the sort of thing you'd add to visually represent a mechanic of some kind.


The wording here is a bit odd. Does he puff up (inflating the air bladder) whenever he double jumps, or does he puff air out from his blowhole when double jumping?


This is also odd wording. Someone who smiles as the camera isn't someone, you'd necessarily describe as boisterous. Rather, him giving a smile to the camera could be showing off another side to him in spite of being considered boisterous by others.

Is it a smug or cocky smile? Friendly to show a softer side? Does he just like the attention? Is he playing it up to either put on a show for the crowd? Or is he putting on a brave face despite not being so confident on the inside? There's a lot of angles that can be interpreted there if you word it in a somewhat vague fashion like that.


I'm once again going to pick apart your naming/action/word choice.

The name should be based on the move. When a player reads the move name, it should give them an idea of what the move could be even before they read the actual description or use it in game. Even if it comes with a full description afterward, names themselves are descriptors.

It doesn't have to be literal, but it should relate to some degree.

If I read "clapping seal," how does that then translate to punching the ground?


Similarly, the use of "below-the-belt" seems unnecessary. I get the callback to boxing since sweeping the legs, targeting knees, shins, etc. is illegal but:

1. This doesn't actually tell me what kind of punch he's throwing.

2. By virtue of being a Down Tilt, it's generally understood that the attack is going to hit low. It'd make more sense pointing it out if the attack hit high despite being a low input because this would actually run counter to people's expectations of a Down Tilt.


The punch would be aimed behind, not come from behind. I know you might see this as nitpicky, but this why I often take issue with a lot of your descriptions. You aren't actually describing things properly, which can lead to confusion and incorrect interpretations of what you actually had in mind.


Another wording thing here. I understand that you probably used overhead because the attack is aimed above Ahab's head, but if that's the case you could have just used uppercut (which you do in the description at least.) An overhead punch is more commonly going to interpreted as a strike aimed down at the opponent from overhead in their perspective. Think of overheads in 2D fighters. These are attacks aimed at crouching opponents, hitting them overhead.


Is he throwing a series of punches or doing a Zangief? Those are two very different things. You could have just as easily left it as spinning lariat or double lariat/clothesline and it would have been easier to understand. Or something concise like, "A double lariat while spinning. Hits multiple times."


Buzzsaws spin fast. Why would you use them as example of something that spins slowly? The action descriptor also doesn't do a good job of actually telling me the way his body is moving.

Given that it's an Up Air I can infer that he's probably punching upward and using enough force to flip his whole body in midair but that's not being communicated properly. The mention of the buzzsaw is actually what communicates the motion better, but then you go and describe it as slow.

The fact that's a multi-hit also makes being slow a strange choice.


The word "breach" was a good choice here as it relates to whales, but I think you fumbled where you used it. A whale that is breaching is leaping up from water, not going down. A move designed after breaching would also make more sense as a full body attack as opposed to a tail whip.


This move is perfectly fine, I just want you to explain the name to me.


Boxers clinch, not clench. Clinching is a hold; the actual pummel would be a body blow. If you wanted something more specific you could have literally called it Gut Punch.


Ditto to the above, this could have been called Gut Punch. If you wanted a sweeping motion, you could have made F-Throw a hook punch instead.


Missed opportunity to call this Thunderclap. Especially if there's no actual wind involved here.


I don't want this whole thing to be negatives, so I do want to highlight this because I like it a lot. I do think the Hyper version should be tweaked a little, but I'll include that in the write up.


A little disappointed that we're just going for another counter move, but at the same time if any character's going to have one, the boxer makes perfect sense.


So first, it's a clothesline, not close line. Second, a lariat is a different (but similar) move (though the two are often confused and in fighting games are sometimes used interchangeably due to characters like Zangief and Haggar having double clotheslines referred to as a double lariat.)

With the way fighting game terms are understood, you're practically calling the base version Lariat Lariat or Clothesline Clothesline.

I've got a few things to add regarding the actual move, but I'll keep those for later because it's very late for me at the time of writing.


You did not just give this man a super that's sole use is to make opponents trip. And a Bionic Arm no less! Just make it an armored, burst option super like it's contemporaries.

I have a lot to say about this one, but- later.
---

Still working on the multi-character write up, with Chell being added to it too now, but I wanted to address this one in particular.

Some comments of my own before I go to bed.

I picture when he double jumps mist, or something similair to mist, will puff out of his blowhole. The idea is he jumps and the mist from his air bladder helps him give his floaty jump.


I called the Up Charge Clocking Overhead because I didn't want to use Uppercut too many times.

What I intended in the smile bit is that despite Ahab's whole mess, he still likes to be boistrous in the show, since it's his persona after all.

I think I'll cut the shrapnel, but I do want a lost tooth from a previous battle, adds some history through the design.

Also the gender error was cause by me copying and pasting Chell's profile to make Ahab's and there some lag occurred that didn't cause the entry to save properly, and the last change that wasn't saved was the gender being changed, so it was some internet jank to blame, especially since the error was only 2 letter big, so it was near impossible to notice. Ahab is male, that was the intention, don't want you to get confused.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh I got autocancelling to work, one of the magic Smash words; this is the first step in making actual attacks for my game. This is for Aremi's Neutral Air, which is styled on Mario's nair aesthetically, here are the planned stats:

Branch Swing
Total Frames: 45
First Hit (Strong): Frame 2 - 5
Second Hit (Weak): Frame 6 - 28
Autocancel Windows: Frame 1 - 2, 37 - Onward

Sorry for the suddenness of the post; I just want to give you a reference for some rather understated but no less HUGE news, I am this close to make my own full on attacks.

 

[Kirbeh]

Kirbeh I got autocancelling to work, one of the magic Smash words; this is the first step in making actual attacks for my game. This is for Aremi's Neutral Air, which is styled on Mario's nair aesthetically, here are the planned stats:

Branch Swing
Total Frames: 45
First Hit (Strong): Frame 2 - 5
Second Hit (Weak): Frame 6 - 28
Autocancel Windows: Frame 1 - 2, 37 - Onward

Sorry for the suddenness of the post; I just want to give you a reference for some rather understated but no less HUGE news, I am this close to make my own full on attacks.

Congrats!

I can't say much else to be honest. When it comes to actual frame data, I can't say I can offer much input other than using other fighting games as a frame of reference. Finding a comparable move as a baseline seems sufficient imo. After that, further balancing will largely depend on how things play out once people actually play test.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Congrats!

I can't say much else to be honest. When it comes to actual frame data, I can't say I can offer much input other than using other fighting games as a frame of reference. Finding a comparable move as a baseline seems sufficient imo. After that, further balancing will largely depend on how things play out once people actually play test.

Yeah true, in comparison to Mario's Nair, this attack is about 3-6 frames shorter overall. Once i get a sprite I'll experiment with hitboxes, but for now this is good.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh I tested out Aremi's Side Special Pyro Dance and found with the physics of the game the ability to perform a leap upwards for a recovery boost is way too OP, so I cut that ability from the attack. I feel for her character, she would be the queen of horizontal recovery due to her long airdash, tether recovery, and range given by Pyro Dance even with the nerf, though her Up Special is heavily flawed despite the mixups you can give it, meaning she struggles in the lower blast zones. You can mitigate this somewhat by boosting upwards with Firestorm, but of course that costs a Star, so it's not something you can spam. I feel this discotomy would make her easy to pick up and play on casual levels due to her high overall damage and excellent horizontal movement, but she can be gimped by vertically orientated fighters, however, the amount of mixup her moves give allows her to have a high skill ceiling theoretically. Helping her pick up and play nature is the fact she is one of the few characters with a 2 Star Hypermax in her Paralyzing Scream, meaning with some workshopping you can get some easy combos with this move. I made these updates in the OP if you're interested, and when you're done with all these write-ups, I want to do a mass rework of the OP to make it more accurate, since it's currently a mess as of now.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh small update, got the inputs for the tilt attacks mostly right, still need to work on forward and back tilts, so I am going placed with making actual attacks. Afterwards, I was going to make the inputs for Charge Attacks and Specials, then get to work on the hitboxes. Even if I don't have sprites I feel these developments make my character feel more legitimate, which is always a good thing don't you say?

EDIT: TILT ATTACKS WORK, MY STOCKS ARE RISING

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh Got all the tilt attacks functioning from an input standpoint; they are programmed, just without hitboxes and such. I am making crazy progress on Aremi tbh; I can't believe I reached this far, huh?

Here is another update, this time about the mechanic of tripping. When you trip you will regain Stamina over time, to catch your breath, and you won't be able to do anything unless you either get hit or regenerate 50 points of Stamina. in this game, you regenerate 1 point per frame, meaning you trip for just under a second, short enough to not be all that intrusive, but long enough for the opponent to potentially capitalize on your vulnerability. I feel that is a good method to balance the tripping mechanic, since once you get back up, you will be back at square one. You always start a battle with 50 Stamina points. What do you think of this idea, any feedback?

Also, another edit, coding the dash attack for Aremi, and after some testing, I think her using her vines as a springboard to slingshot her forward and she perform a jumping kick would be a better idea for her dash attack conceptually. Mechanically, she would have a dash attack that has some notable start-up, but she will travel a longer distance compared to other dash attacks; she will be sent a bit in the air, letting her combo her quick Neutral Air after the initial attack, leading into some new combo routes. How does that sound?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh I spent some time thinking about the mechanic where getting hit by a Charge Attack makes you lose a star and how you said that sounded impractical. Well after looking at other fighting games, I think I have a more unique way to deal with such a mechanic.

So in Street Fighter certain moves apply stun onto the opponent, filling a meter that if filled all the way stuns the opponent. This meter will lower if left alone, meaning if your evasive you can avoid the stun. In my game I'm considering having a similair meter, where attacking fills a Crash Meter, each attack typically filling the meter a certain amount of points. When the meter is filled you lose a star and the meter resets. You don't get stunned like in Street Fighter, just the star loss, so it isn't toxic. Charge Attacks generally deal more to the meter than other attack types, but it's not the only attack you can use to remove stars. The thing is that this can be another stat I can alter character per character, meaning certain characters will accumulate Crash Meter faster or slower. The plan is that the higher the weight of the character, the more Crash Meter is needed for them to lose a star, balancing out the trend of heavier characters tending to be combo food, how does that sound? I think this is another idea that can better link this game with it's traditional fighter roots?