Sigma Busters: Official Discussion Thread

[Glubbfubb]

In this case, I'm not really looking to mythology for the lore and personality just visual design. A winged character, like a bird, would be neat, but they can't emote the way I'd want them to, hence why I dropped the idea immediately. Plus, I already have Guy in the works.

So, for now I'm trying a canine design, not sure if it'll be a jackal specifically or something else.

Spoiler

View attachment 389368

Looks cool, just doesn't look "cosmic" enough, from what you told me I imagined some being on near demi-god level spoke in legends.

 

[Kirbeh]

Looks cool, just doesn't look "cosmic" enough, from what you told me I imagined some being on near demi-god level spoke in legends.

Perhaps I didn't explain it properly, but he's not supposed to be cosmic or deity-like. The latter I even said outright already. When I said "space Akuma" I literally meant just an Akuma inspired character in a sci-fi space setting. Akuma's general role but adapted to fit the world of Sigma Busters.

If anything, the sudden mention of using Greek/Egyptian mythology for lore purposes feels like it's more at odds with what you've previously established.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Perhaps I didn't explain it properly, but he's not supposed to be cosmic or deity-like. The latter I even said outright already. When I said "space Akuma" I literally meant just an Akuma inspired character in a sci-fi space setting. Akuma's general role but adapted to fit the world of Sigma Busters.

If anything, the sudden mention of using Greek/Egyptian mythology for lore purposes feels like it's more at odds with what you've previously established.

True true, but either way the design just doesn't scream "super boss" you know, I just feel like he should feel more intimidating. As for lore, I think him being a member of a species of space beasts from a planet destroyed long ago by some cataclysm, no one knows the name of his species, or even his true name, not even the man himself. I feel we can explore stuff like maybe despite being this intimidating being, deep down he is purposeless and wants to find ANY remnant of his people. Does that sound good to you?

 

[Kirbeh]

True true, but either way the design just doesn't scream "super boss" you know, I just feel like he should feel more intimidating. As for lore, I think him being a member of a species of space beasts from a planet destroyed long ago by some cataclysm, no one knows the name of his species, or even his true name, not even the man himself. I feel we can explore stuff like maybe despite being this intimidating being, deep down he is purposeless and wants to find ANY remnant of his people. Does that sound good to you?

That sounds like it could be a fun angle for a sort of tragic character. I think that's a potential angle or maybe saved for someone else.

The idea behind this guy is that he's a dedicated warrior. Strength and brutal battles are what matter most to him. So much so that after handily besting or even killing most opponents he faced on his home planet, he ventured to the stars, seeking worthy foes elsewhere in the galaxy.

It's very much a pretty direct translation of the trope Akuma follows but on a grander scale by virtue of being set in a whole galaxy. They're not meant to be super involved though, more like a proper "extra" in the way Akuma originally was. He mysteriously shows up sometimes, gives you a really hard fight and disappears right after.

I do like the tragic angle though. The idea that he wanders around, with no true purpose, just fighting because it's all he knows would be interesting to explore but it leaves us back at square one. The original intent was to make a character who the audience isn't sympathetic toward. Perhaps picking a canine in that sense was also a poor choice since people tend to like dogs by default.

 

[Glubbfubb]

That sounds like it could be a fun angle for a sort of tragic character. I think that's a potential angle or maybe saved for someone else.

The idea behind this guy is that he's a dedicated warrior. Strength and brutal battles are what matter most to him. So much so that after handily besting or even killing most opponents he faced on his home planet, he ventured to the stars, seeking worthy foes elsewhere in the galaxy.

It's very much a pretty direct translation of the trope Akuma follows but on a grander scale by virtue of being set in a whole galaxy. They're not meant to be super involved though, more like a proper "extra" in the way Akuma originally was. He mysteriously shows up sometimes, gives you a really hard fight and disappears right after.

I do like the tragic angle though. The idea that he wanders around, with no true purpose, just fighting because it's all he knows would be interesting to explore but it leaves us back at square one. The original intent was to make a character who the audience isn't sympathetic toward.

I mean a character that randomly beats up people is not inheritally sympathetic, the thing is everything has a reason. Akuma is the way he is because he delved too deep into the Satsui no Hado and made him lose his inabitions for winning, he has sympathetic qualities though like a sense of honor and doesn't like attacking the weak, so in a twisted way he is not evil, just looking for a challenge. In a way he is the logical extreme of every fighting game player, wanting to be the best, the thing is Akuma is so powerful compared to the rest of the cast that he beats everyone too easily. Maybe our character could start out cold and hearthless, but through an arc he finds a purpose in life.

 

[Kirbeh]

I mean a character that randomly beats up people is not inheritally sympathetic, the thing is everything has a reason. Akuma is the way he is because he delved too deep into the Satsui no Hado and made him lose his inabitions for winning, he has sympathetic qualities though like a sense of honor and doesn't like attacking the weak, so in a twisted way he is not evil, just looking for a challenge. In a way he is the logical extreme of every fighting game player, wanting to be the best, the thing is Akuma is so powerful compared to the rest of the cast that he beats everyone too easily. Maybe our character could start out cold and hearthless, but through an arc he finds a purpose in life.

No, I understand that Akuma isn't necessarily evil, that's not what I was going for. Akuma is however ruthless and very much in favor of killing for sport (provided the opponent is worthy in his eyes.) As I said, the intent was very much a direct translation of the trope. Akuma is not evil, but he isn't inherently sympathetic. He isn't without some morals or sense of honor, but like you said it's fairly twisted.

As I said earlier, I do like the tragic side you introduced for the character so i think it'd be possible to combine the two. He could be a tough, menacing Akuma like character, but have that layer of tragedy underneath.

He bested everyone on his home planet, and in search of greater heights, leaves his world to seek worthy opponents throughout the galaxy. In his absence however, his world is ravaged and finds it dead and desolate upon his return. This puts him on a dark path, where fueled by vengeance, he's much more violent and impulsive compared to how he used to be. Rather than seeking power for power's sake, he looks to use his strength to deliver his own brand of justice on those who destroyed his home and people.

This would be displayed by being brooding outside of battle and brutal during. Then like you suggested, he could find new purpose throughout his arc and achieve some closure.

That still leaves us with trying for an actual evil villain though. That'd be the proper boss character then, while this guy would be an optional one.

 

[Glubbfubb]

No, I understand that Akuma isn't necessarily evil, that's not what I was going for. Akuma is however ruthless and very much in favor of killing for sport (provided the opponent is worthy in his eyes.) As I said, the intent was very much a direct translation of the trope. Akuma is not evil, but he isn't inherently sympathetic. He isn't without some morals or sense of honor, but like you said it's fairly twisted.

As I said earlier, I do like the tragic side you introduced for the character so i think it'd be possible to combine the two. He could be a tough, menacing Akuma like character, but have that layer of tragedy underneath.

He bested everyone on his home planet, and in search of greater heights, leaves his world to seek worthy opponents throughout the galaxy. In his absence however, his world is ravaged and finds it dead and desolate upon his return. This puts him on a dark path, where fueled by vengeance, he's much more violent and impulsive compared to how he used to be. Rather than seeking power for power's sake, he looks to use his strength to deliver his own brand of justice on those who destroyed his home and people.

This would be displayed by being brooding outside of battle and brutal during. Then like you suggested, he could find new purpose throughout his arc and achieve some closure.

That still leaves us with trying for an actual evil villain though. That'd be the proper boss character then, while this guy would be an optional one.

I don't know who to make the "villain" like when I think evil for evil's sake in this day and age, I think Jack Horner, that's all I think about because he's peak fiction. I don't know if you understand what I'm talking about.

 

[Kirbeh]

I don't know who to make the "villain" like when I think evil for evil's sake in this day and age, I think Jack Horner, that's all I think about because he's peak fiction. I don't know if you understand what I'm talking about.

I had to look that up and the first one to come up was a paleontologist, but I'm assuming you're referring to the Dreamworks character. I haven't watched Cat in Boots (Smashboards censored his name), so I kind of just spoiled myself on the wiki. He seems pretty awful, but I feel like actually seeing the film would give me a better sense of his portrayal.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I had to look that up and the first one to come up was a paleontologist, but I'm assuming you're referring to the Dreamworks character. I haven't watched **** in Boots, so I kind of just spoiled myself on the wiki. He seems pretty awful, but I feel like actually seeing the film would give me a better sense of his portrayal.

I'm just saying villains are just harder to make these days, sometimes there is no really core antagonist, sometimes circumstances make people the villains.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm just saying villains are just harder to make these days, sometimes there is no really core antagonist, sometimes circumstances make people the villains.

I understand that but that's really only the case if you're choosing to write a more nuanced "grey" narrative.

There are plenty of villains who are just evil with no added context. Characters like M. Bison, Palpatine, etc.

If it's a case of you specifically not wanting a traditional "bad guy" then I suppose we don't really need one. I just think plain villain type characters do have something to add especially when you want to keep a varied roster.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I understand that but that's really only the case if you're choosing to write a more nuanced "grey" narrative.

There are plenty of villains who are just evil with no added context. Characters like M. Bison, Palpatine, etc.

If it's a case of you specifically not wanting a traditional "bad guy" then I suppose we don't really need one. I just think plain villain type characters do have something to add especially when you want to keep a varied roster.

True, true, for now we shouldn't be bogged down by figuring out our "antagonist" at the moment, these things come naturally; what we need is just to modernize what we have now. But this has been productive talk.

I feel looking at the movesets, Aremi is basically perfect, she has the most fleshed out kit and doesn't really need much change. If anything, I may give her Ness physics instead of Fox physics, but thats probably it for the moment. I feel Weevle's rework should be our next priority, since she is nearly as important as Aremi. I want to keep the core gameplan for her, a mobile, fast, rushy fighter with some unique command grabs involving draining the life of the opponent to heal herself, having a unique boomerang projectile that brings her opponents closer to her, forward and back airs acting as air dashes, trading spammability for unique movement, and just tries to incapacitate the opponent for her powerful attacks to make up for her signature wet tissue paper defenses.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh need your personal opinion, do you prefer that Hyper Specials are a straight upgrade to normal specials, or that these hyper specials trade some traits of the base special for new traits, meaning both versions of the move have their own niches. As an example of the latter, Aremi's base Pyro Dance offers great horizontal recovery and burst movement, however her enhanced Pyro Tornado trades those traits for higher damage overall and better vertical recovery, with the added addition of not sending her into freefall. Do you think I should use a mix of both?

 

[Kirbeh]

Kirbeh need your personal opinion, do you prefer that Hyper Specials are a straight upgrade to normal specials, or that these hyper specials trade some traits of the base special for new traits, meaning both versions of the move have their own niches. As an example of the latter, Aremi's base Pyro Dance offers great horizontal recovery and burst movement, however her enhanced Pyro Tornado trades those traits for higher damage overall and better vertical recovery, with the added addition of not sending her into freefall. Do you think I should use a mix of both?

I think a mix of both is fine. It's really a case-by-case basis depending on what the intent of the move is. In my reworks I'm generally going for the straightforward upgrade approach of EX moves, which I think work fine as the standard. But there are instances where additional or slightly different utility work too, these are just less common. That's the sort of approach I've been taking.

Another thing, I also just wanted to ask if you'd given the Orion based super boss any more thought yet? Like, what would they be? Are you making them a literal giant? How much are you actually taking from the Greek legend for inspiration. I think doing something loose would work best, otherwise the idea still feels like it'd clash with the rest of the game imo.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I think a mix of both is fine. It's really a case-by-case basis depending on what the intent of the move is. In my reworks I'm generally going for the straightforward upgrade approach of EX moves, which I think work fine as the standard. But there are instances where additional or slightly different utility work too, these are just less common. That's the sort of approach I've been taking.

Another thing, I also just wanted to ask if you'd given the Orion based super boss any more thought yet? Like, what would they be? Are you making them a literal giant? How much are you actually taking from the Greek legend for inspiration. I think doing something loose would work best, otherwise the idea still feels like it'd clash with the rest of the game imo.

Glad I got your input, I do feel a mix of both would be the best way to utilize the meter mechanic.

Also do you have anything on your mind for a Weevle rework, that was the one kit you never gave me some direct comments on.

I'll likely scrap the Orion boss, it was a very early idea for a superboss, but your idea seems better.

After I get these stragglers done in my school assignments I'll be back full time developing the game.

Also been playing some classic Sci-Fi games recently, one game I have been playing may work great as a base for my Smash Run-esc mode. A surprising one too:

Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight

If you take the difficulty spikes out of the equation, the core gameplay loop would work great for a 2D platformer dungeon crawler. You spawn in a randomly generated level and have to find a target monster, typically a miniboss, and defeat it, then you have to race against the clock and return to the start to head to the next stage. The reason I think this game could work as a baseline is because bounty hunters and poachers are a recurring theme in this game, so I feel having this mode focus on hunting what are essentially large bounties will fit for the narrative of the game. It would also have an addictive loop, that being trying to collect the largest bounty you can collect, balancing killing enemies for said bounties, using those bounties for buying helpful power-ups, and deciding to stop when you feel like you got enough, as if you die... well you die and lose all of your bounty. This really adds some replay value and bragging options, as many players can just reach a far stage, but how many players can do that WHILE getting the biggest cash payout they can get. I imagine there to be a selection of stages you can choose, some based off the planets of our playable characters, and every few levels you encounter a boss stage where you can fight an even bigger dedicated boss. How does that tangent sound to you?

 

[Kirbeh]

Glad I got your input, I do feel a mix of both would be the best way to utilize the meter mechanic.

Also do you have anything on your mind for a Weevle rework, that was the one kit you never gave me some direct comments on.

I'm actually working on her's at this very moment.

I'll likely scrap the Orion boss, it was a very early idea for a superboss, but your idea seems better.

While I don't think the initial idea really fit (mostly because it was so vague,) it actually did inspire to look elsewhere in mythology for a species or creature that could make for an interesting character or boss. I landed on centaurs since they provide a pretty unique body type, but I wanted to ask your opinion on the idea. Obviously, the top half would need to be changed from human to a space version of a fantasy race or another animal, but I think there are some interesting directions we could take.

After I get these stragglers done in my school assignments, I'll be back full time developing the game.

Also been playing some classic Sci-Fi games recently, one game I have been playing may work great as a base for my Smash Run-esc mode. A surprising one too:

Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight

If you take the difficulty spikes out of the equation, the core gameplay loop would work great for a 2D platformer dungeon crawler. You spawn in a randomly generated level and have to find a target monster, typically a miniboss, and defeat it, then you have to race against the clock and return to the start to head to the next stage. The reason I think this game could work as a baseline is because bounty hunters and poachers are a recurring theme in this game, so I feel having this mode focus on hunting what are essentially large bounties will fit for the narrative of the game. It would also have an addictive loop, that being trying to collect the largest bounty you can collect, balancing killing enemies for said bounties, using those bounties for buying helpful power-ups, and deciding to stop when you feel like you got enough, as if you die... well you die and lose all of your bounty. This really adds some replay value and bragging options, as many players can just reach a far stage, but how many players can do that WHILE getting the biggest cash payout they can get. I imagine there to be a selection of stages you can choose, some based off the planets of our playable characters, and every few levels you encounter a boss stage where you can fight an even bigger dedicated boss. How does that tangent sound to you?

I actually really like this idea. Only thing I would add is an easier option for causal play. So, something like:

Explorer Mode = Easy/normal mode with less rewards, but players can explore at their own pace and only lose some stuff upon failure as opposed to everything. You can stop and save progress whenever you want.

Scavenger Mode = Higher difficulty, but not necessarily hard. This adds the time limit and a harsher loss penalty. You can pause and save the run, but only at checkpoints.

Bounty Mode = Hard mode. Death equals a complete loss of the bounty and other stuff you've acquired. No checkpoints, auto saves after every level, otherwise a failed level means you have to restart the run for that stage.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I'm actually working on her's at this very moment.


While I don't think the initial idea really fit (mostly because it was so vague,) it actually did inspire to look elsewhere in mythology for a species or creature that could make for an interesting character or boss. I landed on centaurs since they provide a pretty unique body type, but I wanted to ask your opinion on the idea. Obviously, the top half would need to be changed from human to a space version of a fantasy race or another animal, but I think there are some interesting directions we could take.


I actually really like this idea. Only thing I would add is an easier option for causal play. So, something like:

Explorer Mode = Easy/normal mode with less rewards, but players can explore at their own pace and only lose some stuff upon failure as opposed to everything. You can stop and save progress whenever you want.

Scavenger Mode = Higher difficulty, but not necessarily hard. This adds the time limit and a harsher loss penalty. You can pause and save the run, but only at checkpoints.

Bounty Mode = Hard mode. Death equals a complete loss of the bounty and other stuff you've acquired. No checkpoints, auto saves after every level, otherwise a failed level means you have to restart the run for that stage.

The lower difficulty options could work, but this is designed to be an endless mode where you get a high score and share it across the world, lower difficulties sorta defeat the purpose of the risk reward.

This mode has two variants, a standard mode where you can play as any character and get a high score, getting certain increments of high scores will net you new alternate colors for your fighters. Meanwhile there are special bounties every once in a while that feature certain limitations, like your locked into only using one character, trying to get as much as possible in a 10 minute run, battle tougher enemies, and sometimes travel to exclusive levels, with a few potentially being based off certain holidays.

 

[Kirbeh]

The lower difficulty options could work, but this is designed to be an endless mode where you get a high score and share it across the world, lower difficulties sorta defeat the purpose of the risk reward.

This mode has two variants, a standard mode where you can play as any character and get a high score, getting certain increments of high scores will net you new alternate colors for your fighters. Meanwhile there are special bounties every once in a while that feature certain limitations, like your locked into only using one character, trying to get as much as possible in a 10 minute run, battle tougher enemies, and sometimes travel to exclusive levels, with a few potentially being based off certain holidays.

Wouldn't the endless mode be separate anyway though?

If it's a rougelike/roguelite dungeon crawler I think it makes more sense for there still to be an actual end to it. Games like Binding of Isaac can last a while but there is still an eventual end. The endless version would basically be a challenge mode variant of the normal one. Endless modes are good for the really dedicated players, but I don't think it should be the default.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Wouldn't the endless mode be separate anyway though?

If it's a rougelike/roguelite dungeon crawler I think it makes more sense for there still to be an actual end to it. Games like Binding of Isaac can last a while but there is still an eventual end. The endless version would basically be a challenge mode variant of the normal one. Endless modes are good for the really dedicated players, but I don't think it should be the default.

Good point on that front, I feel a finite end could work, my idea is that doing good on each mode with specific characters will give each of them a "precious metal" skin, modeled after well... precious metals or gems, for bragging rights sake.

 

[Kirbeh]

Good point on that front, I feel a finite end could work, my idea is that doing good on each mode with specific characters will give each of them a "precious metal" skin, modeled after well... precious metals or gems, for bragging rights sake.

You'll have to tell me more about what exactly you have in mind for those skins. Since we're working with sprites, changing color palettes is fine, but that really is sort of the extent of it. I'd advise against anything that requires adding any additional details as that would require going back in to alter every sprite.

 

[Glubbfubb]

You'll have to tell me more about what exactly you have in mind for those skins. Since we're working with sprites, changing color palettes is fine, but that really is sort of the extent of it. I'd advise against anything that requires adding any additional details as that would require going back in to alter every sprite.

True true, they are just colors based off precious metals and gemstones, gold, silver, rubies, emerald, diamonds, etc.

 

[Kirbeh]

Finished writing Weevle's revision, now onto finishing LAMBDA and EPSILON for the main 8 post.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Finished writing Weevle's revision, now onto finishing LAMBDA and EPSILON for the main 8 post.

I mean you can post 1 at a time, no need to hold off for one big post, allows me to better give feedback since I can just give crits one at a time and not one big lump post.

I will also say this, do you know any other indie fighting games that have online play, if so do you know HOW they do use their online play, I am just concerned that I have to pay 100$ a month for dedicated servers once this game comes out, which considered I am in a financially restricted state right now is something I don't want to do.

 

[Kirbeh]

I mean you can post 1 at a time, no need to hold off for one big post, allows me to better give feedback since I can just give crits one at a time and not one big lump post.

I will also say this, do you know any other indie fighting games that have online play, if so do you know HOW they do use their online play, I am just concerned that I have to pay 100$ a month for dedicated servers once this game comes out, which considered I am in a financially restricted state right now is something I don't want to do.

Good question. I honestly don't know the entirety of how it works, just a couple things.

I do know of some indie titles with online, including free ones even like Idol Showdown, but I'm not sure how the backend of their online is handled. I assume for free/fan games, someone on the team just pays it themselves since it's a passion project. In all the other scenarios some portion of the dev team budget is allocated to that sort of thing.

I will say however that 100$ a month for a server is highly unlikely for a project like this. Starting small, let's say the game has like a few hundred active players, depending on the service provided you're looking at 5-10$ a month. Cost will generally be relative to how intensive the games code is on CPU space (+ number of active players). For a sprite based 2D indie title I would honestly estimate 20$ at the highest for a game with a modest active player base. There are a few other factors that can come into play but realistically, we should see a server cost of below 20$.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Good question. I honestly don't know the entirety of how it works, just a couple things.

I do know of some indie titles with online, including free ones even like Idol Showdown, but I'm not sure how the backend of their online is handled. I assume for free/fan games, someone on the team just pays it themselves since it's a passion project. In all the other scenarios some portion of the dev team budget is allocated to that sort of thing.

I will say however that 100$ a month for a server is highly unlikely for a project like this. Starting small, let's say the game has like a few hundred active players, depending on the service provided you're looking at 5-10$ a month. Cost will generally be relative to how intensive the games code is on CPU space (+ number of active players). For a sprite based 2D indie title I would honestly estimate 20$ at the highest for a game with modest active player base. There are a few other factors that can come into play but realistically, we should see a server of below 20$.

Good to know, aside from being a passion project, I also want this game to, you know, make ends meet, hopefully I don't have to pay an arm and a leg for servers, since i'm tight on finances.

Also did you see my first part about posting these reworks one at a time so I can have a better time giving feedback on each rework induvidually?

 

[Kirbeh]

When it comes to financing that sort of thing, ideally, and realistically, actual game sales should cover the cost.

EDIT: Yes, I did see, but I wound up focusing on the server topic.

 

[Glubbfubb]

When it comes to financing that sort of thing, ideally, and realistically, actual game sales should cover the cost.

EDIT: Yes, I did see, but I wound up focusing on the server topic.

I think it would be best to discuss this later, topics like these doesn't help my neurosis. I would much rather talk about gameplay, that server thing was just on my mind when I asked about the rework.

 

[Kirbeh]

I think it would be best to discuss this later, topics like these doesn't help my neurosis. I would much rather talk about gameplay, that server thing was just on my mind when I asked about the rework.

Back to in-game stuff then, it only now occurred to me that Weevle draining blood from LAMBDA and EPSILON doesn't make any sense...I guess we can just say she drains "energy" from them which her body converts to more blood or something?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Back to in-game stuff then, it only now occurred to me that Weevle draining blood from LAMBDA and EPSILON doesn't make any sense...I guess we can just say she drains "energy" from them which her body converts to more blood or something?

Yeah in those scenarios she's like Morbius.... from Spider-Man the Animated Series.

Spoiler: Joke Spoiler

In case your wondering, in the Spider-Man Animated Series from the 90s, Morbius drained plasma from his victims, not blood, also there was that one vampire from that cancelled New Warriors reboot that was going to be on the same team as "internet gas" guy and Safe Space... this was real btw

So what did you have in mind for Weevle's rework.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yeah in those scenarios she's like Morbius.... from Spider-Man the Animated Series.

My favorite part of Weevle's move set is when she says "It's Weevlen' time" and Weevles all over the place.

In case your wondering, in the Spider-Man Animated Series from the 90s, Morbius drained plasma from his victims, not blood, also there was that one vampire from that cancelled New Warriors reboot that was going to be on the same team as "internet gas" guy and Safe Space... this was real btw

I'd forgotten that existed. I wish you hadn't reminded me.

So what did you have in mind for Weevle's rework.

Fighter #6 Weevle

Spoiler

Skipped the bio section since I didn't really add/change anything to her story.

GAMEPLAY

Archetype: Rushdown/Grappler


Gimmicks/Traits:

Multi-Jump: Weevle has 5 midair jumps.

Air Dash: Pressing the grab button in the air will initiate an air dash, giving Weevle additional mobility.

Blood Meter: Weevle has a blood meter that fills as she consumes blood. Weevle will start the match with 25% blood meter already filled.

When the meter fills completely she will enter Blood Frenzy. During Blood Frenzy, Weevle's attacks will be stronger, and her speed and weight will increase. The blood meter will begin to quickly drain upon activation.

When the meter completely drains, she will enter a state called Blood Starved. When Blood Starved, Weevle will become more sluggish, and her attacks will be weaker. Attacks that normally use blood will lack it during this state. Specials will still use blood, but deal damage to Weevle. Weevle will exit Blood Starved state and return to normal upon filling 25% of the Blood Meter.


Strengths

• High ground speed
  
• Best air mobility among the cast
  
• Multiple recovery options
  
• High damage specials
  
• Small size makes her a difficult target to hit

Weaknesses

• Lowest weight in the game, making her very easy to launch and KO
  
• Lackluster range on most attacks
  
• Blood Meter adds an additional learning curve, with Blood Starved leaving her in an overall weakened state until she can regain enough blood.

STATS (Graded from a lowest of E- to A+ at the highest)

Walk Speed: B+ (A+ during BF) (B- during BS)

Run Speed: B+ (A+ during BF) (B- during BS)

Traction: B+

Jump: A-

Air Acceleration: A (A+ during BF) (A- during BS)

Fall Speed: B

Weight: E+ (D+ during BF) (E- during BS)


MOVELIST


Ground Attacks

Jab: Flash Fist – A flurry of rapid-fire punches using all four of Weevle's arms.

Forward Tilt: Bloody Claw – A scratching attack with the range extended by manipulating blood to create a trail that follows Weevle's hand. Can be angled up or down.

Up Tilt: Little Butterfly – Weevle performs a short backward cartwheel/butterfly kick. This can be used as a retreating attack as the cartwheel will move her back a bit.

Pressing attack again at the end of the move will follow up with Cricket Tackle, where Weevle will quickly jump forward to tackle opponents at the end of the cartwheel.


Down Tilt: Roly Poly – Weevle curls up and rolls forward a short distance.

Back Tilt: Beetle Bump – Weevle hops backward a bit, hitting opponents with her closed wings and backside.

Dash Attack: Mosquito Bite – Weevle lurches forward to try and bite the opponent. Restores a little bit of health if it lands.


Charge Attacks


Side Charge: Young Grasshopper – Weevle performs a forward flip, striking with a heel drop enhanced by a trail of blood.

Up Charge: Spinning Dragonfly – Weevle flips onto her back and performs a blood soaked, spiraling kick upward. This move leaves Weevle airborne.

Down Charge: Crimson Dagger – Weevle creates a blood dagger in each hand and spins around while slashing with them.


Aerial Attacks


Neutral Air: Red Windmill – A spin in the air, where Weevle's body spawns blood blades to extend the range of the attack, making it one of her longer ranged melee attacks.

Forward Air: Blood Fang – A strong forward bite that spikes opponents and recovers some health but has high end lag.

Up Air: Bug Bite – An quick upward bite that recovers a little health and can be used for juggles.

Down Air: Bloody Arrow - Weevle brings her legs together, creating a blade at her feet, and drops straight down.


Throws


Grab: Standard/Air Dash (in air)
Pummel : Vampiric Fang - Weevle bites the opponent with her fangs, dealing damage and recovering a little bit for every hit.

Forward Throw: Hercules Beetle – Weevle swings the opponent around with surprising strength, sending them flying with a giant swing. It has the most knockback of her throws. Potentially an early kill throw when used at the ledge.

Down Throw: Crimson Drill - Weevle knocks the opponent to the ground and quickly follows up with a drilling stomp attack using blood around her legs.

Back Throw: Rolling Beetle - Weevle flips backward with the opponent several times and slams them into the ground. (Think Pikachu back throw.)

Up Throw: Meteor Mite - Weevle flies up with the opponent before crashing back down. (Similar to Kirby 's up throw.) Kill throw at high percents.


Specials Moves


Neutral Special – Red Mantis – Weevle launches two blood blades as medium-range projectiles, the initial hit is weak, but on the way back the projectiles gain stronger knockback. Good for bringing opponents closer.

Neutral Hyper: Crimson Scythe – Weevle launches a single, large, spinning blood blade. Deals more damage and more reliably drags opponents on return.

(The normal version will basically knock opponents back in your general direction on return while this one is a multi-hit that actively drags opponents with in as it flies back.)


Side Special: Flying Stag Beetle – Weevle lunges forward a short distance and tries to grab the opponent. If it lands, she'll fly them up in a loop de loop and slam them into the ground on the way down.

Side Hyper: Bloody Rhino Bomb – This version of move is mostly the same but deals much more damage and also deals splash damage from a burst of blood produced from the impact.


Up Special: Vampire Drill – Weevle wraps her wings around herself and produces a blood spike at the top to perform a rising drill attack. The angle can be influenced slightly by titling left or right.

Up Hyper: Bloody Stream – Weevle can now freely direct the move, and deals more damage, leaving a trail of blood as she travels through the air.


Down Special: Vampire Gnat – A short range grab that has Weevle suck a large amount of blood from the opponent. Deals decent damage and heals a decent amount as well but has high end lag to compensate. On whiff the end lag isn't as high, but still leaves you open for a moment.

Down Hyper: Blood Drive – Weevle drains an even larger amount of blood from the opponent, dealing high damage and regaining a good bit of health.


HYPERMAX MOVES


Level 1: Vermilion - A super version of her rapid jab, enhanced by infusing blood into her strikes. As a super it has much greater power than the rapid jab, but also gains extended range. The flurry of strikes is capped off with a cross chop from all four arms, enhanced by blood blades. (And yes, the name is a play on vermilion being a shade of red, like blood, and sounding like “million”, for the “hundred/thousand/million strikes” martial arts trope. And also yes, FotNS/JJBA reference.)


Level 2: Blood Burst – Weevle creates a short range explosion of blood, launching foes away in a radius all around her. This move's range and power will increase based on how full the blood meter is, but will in turn also drain it.


Level 3: Vampire Dive – A command grab super where Weevle will launch opponents into the air and perform a frenzy of claw attacks using blood. She'll then finish them off by grabbing them in midair and flipping upside down, slamming back into the ground Izuna Drop/SPD style.

 

[Glubbfubb]

My favorite part of Weevle's move set is when she says "It's Weevlen' time" and Weevles all over the place.


I'd forgotten that existed. I wish you hadn't reminded me.

View attachment 389427



Fighter #6 Weevle

Spoiler

Skipped the bio section since I didn't really add/change anything to her story.

GAMEPLAY

Archetype: Rushdown/Grappler


Gimmicks/Traits:

Multi-Jump: Weevle has 5 midair jumps.

Air Dash: Pressing the grab button in the air will initiate an air dash, giving Weevle additional mobility.

Blood Meter: Weevle has a blood meter that fills as she consumes blood. Weevle will start the match with 25% blood meter already filled.

When the meter fills completely she will enter Blood Frenzy. During Blood Frenzy, Weevle's attacks will be stronger, and her speed and weight will increase. The blood meter will begin to quickly drain upon activation.

When the meter completely drains, she will enter a state called Blood Starved. When Blood Starved, Weevle will become more sluggish, and her attacks will be weaker. Attacks that normally use blood will lack it during this state. Specials will still use blood, but deal damage to Weevle. Weevle will exit Blood Starved state and return to normal upon filling 25% of the Blood Meter.


Strengths

• High ground speed
  
• Best air mobility among the cast
  
• Multiple recovery options
  
• High damage specials
  
• Small size makes her a difficult target to hit

Weaknesses

• Lowest weight in the game, making her very easy to launch and KO
  
• Lackluster range on most attacks
  
• Blood Meter adds an additional learning curve, with Blood Starved leaving her in an overall weakened state until she can regain enough blood.

STATS (Graded from a lowest of E- to A+ at the highest)

Walk Speed: B+ (A+ during BF) (B- during BS)

Run Speed: B+ (A+ during BF) (B- during BS)

Traction: B+

Jump: A-

Air Acceleration: A (A+ during BF) (A- during BS)

Fall Speed: B

Weight: E+ (D+ during BF) (E- during BS)


MOVELIST


Ground Attacks

Jab: Flash Fist – A flurry of rapid-fire punches using all four of Weevle's arms.

Forward Tilt: Bloody Claw – A scratching attack with the range extended by manipulating blood to create a trail that follows Weevle's hand. Can be angled up or down.

Up Tilt: Little Butterfly – Weevle performs a short backward cartwheel/butterfly kick. This can be used as a retreating attack as the cartwheel will move her back a bit.

Pressing attack again at the end of the move will follow up with Cricket Tackle, where Weevle will quickly jump forward to tackle opponents at the end of the cartwheel.


Down Tilt: Roly Poly – Weevle curls up and rolls forward a short distance.

Back Tilt: Beetle Bump – Weevle hops backward a bit, hitting opponents with her closed wings and backside.

Dash Attack: Mosquito Bite – Weevle lurches forward to try and bite the opponent. Restores a little bit of health if it lands.


Charge Attacks


Side Charge: Young Grasshopper – Weevle performs a forward flip, striking with a heel drop enhanced by a trail of blood.

Up Charge: Spinning Dragonfly – Weevle flips onto her back and performs a blood soaked, spiraling kick upward. This move leaves Weevle airborne.

Down Charge: Crimson Dagger – Weevle creates a blood dagger in each hand and spins around while slashing with them.


Aerial Attacks


Neutral Air: Red Windmill – A spin in the air, where Weevle's body spawns blood blades to extend the range of the attack, making it one of her longer ranged melee attacks.

Forward Air: Blood Fang – A strong forward bite that spikes opponents and recovers some health but has high end lag.

Up Air: Bug Bite – An quick upward bite that recovers a little health and can be used for juggles.

Down Air: Bloody Arrow - Weevle brings her legs together, creating a blade at her feet, and drops straight down.


Throws


Grab: Standard/Air Dash (in air)
Pummel : Vampiric Fang - Weevle bites the opponent with her fangs, dealing damage and recovering a little bit for every hit.

Forward Throw: Hercules Beetle – Weevle swings the opponent around with surprising strength, sending them flying with a giant swing. It has the most knockback of her throws. Potentially an early kill throw when used at the ledge.

Down Throw: Crimson Drill - Weevle knocks the opponent to the ground and quickly follows up with a drilling stomp attack using blood around her legs.

Back Throw: Rolling Beetle - Weevle flips backward with the opponent several times and slams them into the ground. (Think Pikachu back throw.)

Up Throw: Meteor Mite - Weevle flies up with the opponent before crashing back down. (Similar to Kirby 's up throw.) Kill throw at high percents.


Specials Moves


Neutral Special – Red Mantis – Weevle launches two blood blades as medium-range projectiles, the initial hit is weak, but on the way back the projectiles gain stronger knockback. Good for bringing opponents closer.

Neutral Hyper: Crimson Scythe – Weevle launches a single, large, spinning blood blade. Deals more damage and more reliably drags opponents on return.

(The normal version will basically knock opponents back in your general direction on return while this one is a multi-hit that actively drags opponents with in as it flies back.)


Side Special: Flying Stag Beetle – Weevle lunges forward a short distance and tries to grab the opponent. If it lands, she'll fly them up in a loop de loop and slam them into the ground on the way down.

Side Hyper: Bloody Rhino Bomb – This version of move is mostly the same but deals much more damage and also deals splash damage from a burst of blood produced from the impact.


Up Special: Vampire Drill – Weevle wraps her wings around herself and produces a blood spike at the top to perform a rising drill attack. The angle can be influenced slightly by titling left or right.

Up Hyper: Bloody Stream – Weevle can now freely direct the move, and deals more damage, leaving a trail of blood as she travels through the air.


Down Special: Vampire Gnat – A short range grab that has Weevle suck a large amount of blood from the opponent. Deals decent damage and heals a decent amount as well but has high end lag to compensate. On whiff the end lag isn't as high, but still leaves you open for a moment.

Down Hyper: Blood Drive – Weevle drains an even large amount of blood from the opponent, dealing high damage and regaining a good bit of health.


HYPERMAX MOVES


Level 1: Vermilion - A super version of her rapid jab, enhanced by infusing blood into her strikes. As a super it has much greater power than the rapid jab, but also gains extended range. The flurry of strikes is capped of with a cross chop from all four arms, enhanced by blood blades. (And yes the name is a play on vermilion being a shade of red, like blood, and sounding like “million”, for the “hundred/thousand/million strikes” martial arts trope. And also yes, FotNS/JJBA reference.)


Level 2: Blood Burst – Weevle creates a short range explosion of blood, launching foes away in a radius all around her. This move's range and power will increase based on how full the blood meter is, but will in turn also drain it.


Level 3: Vampire Dive – A command grab super where Weevle will launch opponents into the air and perform a frenzy of claw attacks using blood. She'll then finish them off by grabbing them in midair and flipping upside down, slamming back into the ground Izuna Drop/SPD style.

I like this rework, good evolution on the original blood meter mechanic and the rework to the air dashes is a great idea, you did forget about the back air though. I do prefer the old up air where she claps her wings upwards, ala Banja Kazooie Up Air, though Wyrm and Tamm have a similar attack, so I guess the change makes sense. The one critique I do have is her Up Special, I sort of made her Up Special paradoxically trash recovery-wise since she has so many other great recovery options in her multiple jumps and air dashes, being on par with Spinning Kong and OG Link's spin attack in terms of vertical distance, the Jigglypuff theorum, if you will. Otherwise, no complaints with the reworks, good stuff.

 

[Kirbeh]

I like this rework, good evolution on the original blood meter mechanic and the rework to the air dashes is a great idea, you did forget about the back air though. I do prefer the old up air where she claps her wings upwards, ala Banja Kazooie Up Air, though Wyrm and Tamm have a similar attack, so I guess the change makes sense. The one critique I do have is her Up Special, I sort of made her Up Special paradoxically trash recovery-wise since she has so many other great recovery options in her multiple jumps and air dashes, being on par with Spinning Kong and OG Link's spin attack in terms of vertical distance, the Jigglypuff theorum, if you will. Otherwise, no complaints with the reworks, good stuff.

All that proof reading and I completely missed Back Air; I'll add one in later.

I actually wasn't thinking of W&T at all for the up-air change (I don't remember what most of their moves are off the top of my head.) I just didn't think the move fit Weevle very much. I feel it's better suited to a character that places greater emphasis on using wings to fight in the move set overall. Plus, more flexible wings in general like those of a bird.

I get that her air mobility is already good but given just how light she is I thought giving her an actual Up B was more justified given that we have a lot of heavies and even hard-hitting mid weights like Wynnie who can still engage and overpower her in the air. Generally speaking, Weevle is mobile but will probably still lose during a trade. The second reason is actually her blood meter.

In addition to already being a glass cannon, the fact that there'll be parts of a match where she loses the cannon part and just becomes glass means she needs more options for survivability. Blood Frenzy can allow her to snowball opponents, but Blood Starved also allows her to get snowballed quite easily too.

 

[Glubbfubb]

All that proof reading and I completely missed Back Air; I'll add one in later.

I actually wasn't thinking of W&T at all for the up-air change (I don't remember what most of their moves are off the top of my head.) I just didn't think the move fit Weevle very much. I feel it's better suited to a character that places greater emphasis on using wings to fight in the move set overall. Plus, more flexible wings in general like those of a bird.

I get that her air mobility is already good but given just how light she is I thought giving her an actual Up B was more justified given that we have a lot of heavies and even hard-hitting mid weights like Wynnie who can still engage and overpower her in the air. Generally speaking, Weevle is mobile but will probably still lose during a trade. The second reason is actually her blood meter.

In addition to already being a glass cannon, the fact that there'll be parts of a match where she loses the cannon part and just becomes glass means she needs more options for survivability. Blood Frenzy can allow her to snowball opponents, but Blood Starved also allows her to get snowballed quite easily too.

Good points on all fronts, I do predict she may be a nightmare to balance down the road, and you know how people react when the cutsey character is also the most toxic in the game, can't go too overboard, balance is key

 

[Kirbeh]

Good points on all fronts, I do predict she may be a nightmare to balance down the road, and you know how people react when the cutsey character is also the most toxic in the game, can't go too overboard, balance is key

She's also a grappler so that's another point against her for most people.

If anything, I honestly don't think she really needs the Blood Meter mechanics, I reworked them since you seemed keen on keeping them in. If you drop it, she's still got the air dashes and ability to heal off of multiple attacks. The blood itself could just remain as an aesthetic choice.

Not to say that you should drop it either. Depends on how you want to take the direction of her play style. If kept she'll be a high skill, extra volatile, glass cannon. If removed, she'll still be a glass cannon, but much easier to both play and deal with.

 

[Glubbfubb]

We will see if this blood meter can prove to be problematic, until then I can't wait to see the other reworks

 

[Glubbfubb]

So my current plan is to form a working prototype, then after that form a Patreon/Kickstarter for the game so that we can have revenue to save for buying servers and other expenses like commissions

 

[Glubbfubb]

Since I am free, I will give the opportunity to showcase the concept for the hostile wildlife of Aremi's home planet, Wikka-1, the main theme for this world is carnivorous plants and explosive fire monsters.

Dogan
The small fry of Wikka-1, the lowest members of the food chain. Best described as chicken-cricket hybrids, they hop around and peck at intruders to their territory. Despite their infamous weakness, they are quite aggressive, still doesn't make them any less delicious.

Squasho
The first of many hostile flaura you can encounter, the Squashos are large bulbous plants that jump in the air and try to crush their prey. They attack by slamming the ground, creating a large shockwave. They come in three sizes, bigger sizes making bigger shockwaves.

Flassers
Resembling rafflasias on spider legs, they crawl around the ground, launching slow moving acid bubbles at prey, for their size they are quite tanky, having high resistance to fire attacks.

Bullet Bugs
Bugs with abdomens resembling machine guns, they launch Molotov pellets on nearby prey, causing the ground to burst into flames.

Pygmy Magmamander
Fat alien slug-lizard hybrids covered in hot magma, they barf magma as an attack and the magma on their backs gives them heightened defense against attacks from above. These are just the small fry, no bigger than a sheep, even larger Magmamanders can be found on the firey areas of Draden. No one knows which species came first.

Lanturn Bulbs
Floating bulbs filled with Pyronite that home in onto you and explode into seering flames, a common pest in Wikka-1.

Amoebulb
Amoeba-like creatures that split into and spawn more Lanturn Bulbs.

Matchflik
Spiny grasshoppers that lob flaming robs that burst into fire collums.

These are some ideas for enemies native to Wikka-1, any ideas to expand them?

 

[Glubbfubb]

Kirbeh good news, I found a function that allows me to easily make alternate colors for my playable character, I can convert the sprite sheet into a grayscale, then edit custom palettes for each alternate color, so the process isn't that difficult.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Okay, so my current roadmap is Developing the Character Select Screen/Character Spawn Point, that way I don't have to physically place and remove each relevant character for testing. For the purposes of 1v1 balance, both the P1 and P2 spawn points will be placed at the corner of each stage, while P3 and P4 will be in the inner portions of the stage.

Another thing, I feel Aremi's moveset is mostly perfect, the only iffy things I am hesitant on is changing her physics and Side Hyper Special. I am debating if her kit would be better with Fox-esc physics or Ness-esc physics, since both have good synergies with her kit. I also feel her current Side Hyper Special feels more like a Hypermax Attack due feeling too strong. My current plans was to give the Hyper Meter 6 units, allowing you to gain a new Hypermax Level every 2 units, since I feel giving everyone a free Level 1 Hypermax may be too broken. Don't know how to rework the Side Hyper, but I do want to implement more attacks where Aremi tosses her explosive head, since that is sorta her thing, any ideas Kirbeh on the matter?

 

[Kirbeh]

Okay, so my current roadmap is Developing the Character Select Screen/Character Spawn Point, that way I don't have to physically place and remove each relevant character for testing. For the purposes of 1v1 balance, both the P1 and P2 spawn points will be placed at the corner of each stage, while P3 and P4 will be in the inner portions of the stage.

Another thing, I feel Aremi's moveset is mostly perfect, the only iffy things I am hesitant on is changing her physics and Side Hyper Special. I am debating if her kit would be better with Fox-esc physics or Ness-esc physics, since both have good synergies with her kit. I also feel her current Side Hyper Special feels more like a Hypermax Attack due feeling too strong. My current plans was to give the Hyper Meter 6 units, allowing you to gain a new Hypermax Level every 2 units, since I feel giving everyone a free Level 1 Hypermax may be too broken. Don't know how to rework the Side Hyper, but I do want to implement more attacks where Aremi tosses her explosive head, since that is sorta her thing, any ideas Kirbeh on the matter?

I'd already made a few more adjustments to the characters in the original batch, I'll be posting the updated version once Lam and Ep are finished. I suppose in the meantime I can go back and look over Aremi again but to be perfectly honest I'd been working to minimize the head throwing, keeping it confined to Up Special/Hyper.

If you want the cornerstone of her moveset to be the explosive head throwing, she's going to need a significant overhaul in order to implement it into more attacks and design other moves around it too.

 

[Glubbfubb]

I'd already made a few more adjustments to the characters in the original batch, I'll be posting the updated version once Lam and Ep are finished. I suppose in the meantime I can go back and look over Aremi again but to be perfectly honest I'd been working to minimize the head throwing, keeping it confined to Up Special/Hyper.

If you want the cornerstone of her moveset to be the explosive head throwing, she's going to need a significant overhaul in order to implement it into more attacks and design other moves around it too.

I understand that, I just felt her current side hyper is a bit outdated in comparison to the rest of her solid kit, so I felt updating it would be a good idea, that was just an idea I had.