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Social *sigh* oh the life of a Zelda main [A new zelda discussion zone]

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Turnips are pretty stupid, mainly because they basically force you offstage, with is a terrible position. I find that Nayru's Love can be handy at some turnip throw ranges. Unfortunately, it's very risky too.
 

skid_marq

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
18
Location
Southern California
Yeah Nayru's Love is a bad idea if the Peach knows what they're doing. Luckily I haven't fought a campy Peach in tournament yet. I might resort to Transforming if that ever happens.
 

skid_marq

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
18
Location
Southern California
Get hype Zelda lovers, my Zelda two-stocked Westballz's DK yesterday in friendlies at Mayhem. Then he proceeded to body everyone in bracket. He totally couldn't have beaten Mango in GF if it weren't for the Zelda power emirite??
 

skid_marq

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
18
Location
Southern California
Pretty much. I tried to give DK the least amount of breathing room as possible in Yoshi's Story (close quarters made it easy). Nayru's Love and up smash did wonders when he got too close.
 

skid_marq

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
18
Location
Southern California
Oh I keep forgetting to bring this up! But has anyone else here ever experienced spikes on the startup of Zelda's down smash? This one time, I wanted to d-smash a recovering Luigi, but I did it later than I wanted, and I ended up spiking him in the middle of his up B. I was still charging by the time his stock was gone and we were all wtf
 

skid_marq

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
18
Location
Southern California
lololol I entered the weekly JJ's tournament (the game store that JJ | Mike Haze is sponsored by), and I got second place (out of 7) because most of the regulars were at EVO. I went mostly Sheik, but I've been experimenting with some Zhelda strategies that maybe you Zeldas can give me some thoughts on. Specifically, I've been going straight Sheik until a space animal counterpicks Yoshi's Story. I know Sheik does well in that stage on those matchups, I just know that Zelda is do-able because of close quarters and small blast zones, and I just want to use Zelda ALRIGHT. It also throws some players off if I don't use Zelda too long.

Before one game in Losers Finals, a Falco player counterpicked Fox on Battlefield and we fist-pumped during "now loading" so I missed my transform! So I just went Zelda, and transformed to Sheik when I took the first stock. I felt like I was in his head at this point (I was up 2-1) so I decided to experiment some more and transormed between Zelda/Sheik in between stocks, ended up closing the set after winning this game.

I believe Sheik vs Samus is considered to be in Sheik's favor, but I just haven't figured out how to kill Samus with Sheik yet! So I just opted for transforming into Zelda when I knock Samus of stage and go for kicks when she comes back on stage (after some Din's Fire attempts). Worked out alright, but Samus player was just clearly the best player of these scrubby 7.

Also, I tend to just go straight Zelda against Peach. My brother is a Peach main so I'm just used to the matchup. Still thinking of going Zelda for most floaties.
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,044
Location
The Zelda Boards
Wait there's been posts here in 2015? Whaaaaaaaaaat! :disco: I haven't been here in ages.

Obviously I've been busy LKing Silverfish :secretkpop:
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
You guys should just catch turnips. Jump into z. If you miss you get a nair out that will block the turnip. Nair is far less bad to whiff than nayru's love. Or just stay on the ground and shield the turnip. If peach doesn't approach you can jump oos to catch the deflected turnip. And if she does being in shield is not the worst thing as Zelda. If she pulls some pressure into dsmash shield poke bull**** then light shield, shield di away and let down your shield when you're out of range and get a fair in. And if peach grabs you she has nothing guaranteed so whatever.
 
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ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
That's good. I've always been a grounded turnip-catcher, but I'm seeing the merits to aerial catching more and more.

What do you guys think of using f-smash as shield pressure? I feel like people just shield everything I do. I guess I could start wavedashing out of shield to grab as a tomahawk-esque way of dealing with shield-spamming.
 

siloFM

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
6
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
NNID
siloFM
I'm so mad at Zelda right now

she can't fight Fox

I like the Zelda v Fox match up almost the best... if ya get a Fox offstage with Zelda, its almost a kill 100% of the time. I really like using the hitbox on teleportation as a shine spike, and I teleport straight back to the ledge. Nayru's love can also send a Fire Fox into a tumble.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
I think fsmash sucks for shield pressure. I like nair, jab, dsmash, dtilt, and maybe even ftilt better. Nair is actually really good for shield pressure. All those hitboxes can get you a shield poke and you can l cancel it into a dsmash, jab or other fast ground move. Dtilt is also underutilized because it too can shield poke and it sets up for some legit combos. What I like to do with fsmash is try to hit with the tip and the last active hitbox of it so they can't SDI. It works well against Marth from what I've noticed.

Fox matchup blows **** with Zelda. But I prefer playing it over other matchups with her because if the Fox doesn't know what they're doing you can body them. They have to have really good shield pressure to avoid your oos options or to even penetrate your shield in the first place. And if you grab them, it's game over.

But what I like even better than the Fox matchup is the Falco matchup. Powershielding with Zelda is really easy because of how big her shield is. Again, they have to have crispy pressure to not get punished and even then you can do some really cool shield DI mixups to counter attack. Edgeguarding Falco, unlike Fox, is pretty much free. Falco has a lot less options that you can't cover. Overall, I think it's one of Zelda's more doable matchups. Still sucks, but I have actually pulled out my Zelda in serious tournament sets against Falco and won because of how volatile the matchup is. Like I'll lose game 1. Pick Zelda. They'll ban FOD cause they think I'm Sheik. Then I go Dreamland lol.

Another matchup I'll actually play as Zelda is Falcon. People say it's her worst matchup, but I disagree. At lower percents, you can SDI much of Falcon's aerial followups off grabs to get back to neutral. Like the spacies, Falcon has to play super safe on your shield, and it's even easier to get him oos. And of course, you have a chaingrab that can 0 to death. Oh and edgeguarding is free. Still a bad matchup, but I prefer volatile bad matchups with Zelda over just straight up bad matchups where Zelda has no combos or edgeguard opportunities. Like I would never use Zelda vs. Peach or something lol.
 
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CnB | Chandy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
221
Location
Austin, Texas
Hey yall. It's Chandy. If any of you are familiar with my youtube channel then you know I love creating low-tier Melee content and at the moment I'm trying to take on new challenges to improve my editing/content creating skills. Zelda gets a pretty bad rap as a character with an unexciting and limited punish game, which would obviously make the concept of a Zelda combo video somewhat boring by extension.

Well, challenge accepted. I want to make a Zelda community combo video, and I want it to be not terrible and cringey. Hopefully that might do a little bit to improve Zelda's standing in the eyes of the competitive community (obviously not in a "she's a better character" kind of way, but more of a "Zelda is boring af to watch" kind of way). If not, at least it'll be a fun thing for me to do and a nice way to remember some of the better moments in Melee Zelda history.

But I don't play Zelda very much. Or at all, like ever, or even a little bit on the weekends or something. And I also don't have time to look through every Zelda match that gets uploaded to youtube. So I really need yall's help with finding footage because yall are probably infinitely more helpful in that regard than I am. If you can get me a YouTube video with a timestamp, that's the most convenient format for me to pull clips from. If you have some dank Zelda footage lying around on your computer (friendlies, tournament, moneymatches, netplay, whatever looks crispy as long as it's not staged), please upload it. Even if it's not you playing, if you can find me a juicy clip, you're helping me out a ton. And if you really want to be a saint, get on stream/a recording and kick some mofos to generate new footage that aint never been seen before. I can't guarantee that I will be able to use all the footage you guys send me, but I can guarantee that I will appreciate it tons and tons.

I think I'm qualified to put this video together IF you guys will let me try my heart out. For reference, here is my latest DK combo video. You can also check out some of my other videos if you want proof that I know how to edit stuff.

I thought I'd post this here because it's like the only active thread on this board anymore but I don't want derail discussion too much so I'm going to make another topic on this board to keep all the submissions in one place. You can also PM any submissions to me if you'd prefer that. Thanks for your time, everyone!
 
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Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
Death Row, North Carolina
My post has been quoted so I'll come in for a second.

Yes; fox cannot up-throw -> upair Zelda
No; that doesn't mean it's not a bad match-up.

Zelda can't out run fox, she can't hide from fox, her goals against Fox are extremely clear to the point that you cannot out wit a competent Fox player. Upsmash in un-viable, Fsmash is un-viable

You can beat a weak Fox nair with dash-attack, Zelda's nair is also good when they're above you and platform camping.

dtilt and dsmash are decent edgeguards

you can kick a poorly spaced upsmash on your shield

also vs falco you can kick an utilt on shield

Style points to those who can dropzone with dthrow

Zelda/Fox is unwinnable
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
You can up-smash Falco out of shield. Although nowadays people seem to know to crouch cancel it.
Yeah that's why I don't do it unless I know they won't. I just try to SDI with my shield to get out of pressure and punish with kick/nair. That or buffer a roll/spot dodge.
 

TacoLord9000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
69
Location
Waco, TX
Zelda is pretty overrated I think. I put her as 2nd worst character, above Bowser.
I disagree entirely, Kirby, Ness, and G&W are far worse. Zelda can body a lot of low tier characters, she arguably beats Samus, and I would say her matchup with ICs is around even. Everyone else destroys her without question though, especially Sheik :ohwell:.
 

Upke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
429
Location
Savannah, GA / Cary, NC
Yeah, I think Ness may actually be better than Zelda. GnW too. I think she has an edge over Kirby and Roy, and probably Bowser. She still loses to most low tiers tbh.
 

TacoLord9000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
69
Location
Waco, TX
Yeah, I think Ness may actually be better than Zelda. GnW too. I think she has an edge over Kirby and Roy, and probably Bowser. She still loses to most low tiers tbh.
Well considering how bad G&W's shield and roll is, I find it hard to justify putting him above Zelda. I think Zelda has an overall better matchup spread and can fight high tiers slightly easier (which is not saying much). Mewtwo, DK, both Links, Yoshi, and Pichu are the only low tiers I would put above Zelda. I can agree that Ness might be better than Zelda, but its not like he has a special that can turn you into a high tier :smirk:. But in all seriousness these characters are awful. Pity to all that play them..oh wait that's me :confused:. Good thing I'm learning high tiers.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
I disagree entirely, Kirby, Ness, and G&W are far worse. Zelda can body a lot of low tier characters, she arguably beats Samus, and I would say her matchup with ICs is around even. Everyone else destroys her without question though, especially Sheik :ohwell:.
Zelda's neutral game is the worst in the game besides bowser. She is terrible, my friend. She doesn't even get close to hanging with Samus. ICs are the only high tier she has a chance against.

Edit: bowser might even have a better neutral game because of up-b out of shield.
 
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TacoLord9000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
69
Location
Waco, TX
Zelda's neutral game is the worst in the game besides bowser. She is terrible, my friend. She doesn't even get close to hanging with Samus. ICs are the only high tier she has a chance against.

Edit: bowser might even have a better neutral game because of up-b out of shield.
You know what I agree with you. Zelda is the worst character in the game. She wins no matchups except maybe against Bowser or Kirby. I'm not sure why I was even trying to defend her viability when she has none. The funny thing is that I realized she is even worse than I originally thought and this came to me after doing well with her in a tournament. The only reason I did well is because nobody plays Zelda and so people have no idea what to do against her. Perhaps you could argue that she has niche role as a counterpick against the ICs but that is being wishful at best.
 

skid_marq

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2015
Messages
18
Location
Southern California
Speaking of ICs, I played a bunch of friendlies with an ICs player yesterday to explore the matchup. I LOVE this matchup, it's super fun. We played through all the tournament stages, and it seems like Zelda is favored in Dreamland and Yoshi's Story. It actually feels like an even matchup. I think Zelda wins the neutral game, but wobbling seems to balance everything out. Just approach with kicks and down smash like crazy once you get in. Nana will probably die. I also found it useful to transform into Sheik to finish off edgeguards if Sopo doesn't get KO'd by a kick. I also got chain-grabbed as Sheik though because I screwed up an edgeguard so don't let that happen!
 

***Justice***

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
456
Location
Middle of Nowhere
I went mostly Sheik, but I've been experimenting with some Zhelda strategies that maybe you Zeldas can give me some thoughts on

Dude, i wish more Sheiks mixed things up with Zelda like you! the 2 in 1 character thing should be abused more, even if Zelda isn't classified to be all that great. I don't play as Sheik but its mad cool what you are doing!
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
Princeton, NJ
Zelda gets destroyed by turnips. :cry:
Magus just powershields them like, 100% of the time lol.

I like aerial neutral B's.
I disagree entirely, Kirby, Ness, and G&W are far worse. Zelda can body a lot of low tier characters, she arguably beats Samus, and I would say her matchup with ICs is around even. Everyone else destroys her without question though, especially Sheik :ohwell:.
Um, have you not seen Qerb's Game N' Watch?
Yeah, I think Ness may actually be better than Zelda. GnW too. I think she has an edge over Kirby and Roy, and probably Bowser. She still loses to most low tiers tbh.
The fact that Roy has amazing movement / neutral alone makes him better than Zelda.
 

CnB | Chandy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
221
Location
Austin, Texas
I have new Zelda tech to show off in anticipation of the next video. Two edge cancel ledge grabs.

The first is pretty much the only way you can get away with Din's Fire with any chance of escaping a punish. It's really easy to SD attempting this and it's generally not worth it except as a mix-up. Throwing out a semi-low commitment Din's Fire as you very SLOWLY retreat to the ledge might be good once every 10 to 15 years. It's fun to practice, at least.

https://gfycat.com/CostlyCloseBlacklemur

The second is still really hard but might be more useful. In the same way that Young Link uses his run-off up-B to preemptively cover side-B onstage and edge hog sweetspot side-B, Zelda can edge cancel Nayru's Love to do a slower, far more difficult version of the same thing. Unfortunately Zelda's mobility and options coming off of the ledge aren't really comparable to Young Link's so her ability to close out the edge guard after this kind of coverage is dubious. Try it out for yourselves and let me know how it goes.

https://gfycat.com/FocusedEnlightenedKatydid
 

ikrager

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
26
yeah its just a 1 or 2 steps in. Wavedash makes you go into them too much imo.

+

naryu's will do a variety of things depending on what hitbox you hit them with. the 1st and 2nd phase of hitboxes act differently.

1st phase starts on the 12th frame just after your invincibility will end and will send the opponent at 10 degrees with 12 knockback first 2 hitboxes that come out do 1 damage and the second do 2 damage. which repeats 5 times.
Basically they could be reset hitboxes however the move has a second phase and basically has half a second of endlag from 27-59th frame.

2nd phase starts on the 27th frame the interal hitboxes do 5 damage, 361 degrees of knockback, 50 base and 100 knockback growth the external do 4 damage and 40 base and same degree of knockback. this phase is DI dependent.

So basically if you want to use naryu's love you need to 1. know when the opponent is going to be in tumble % and 2. use naryu's on top of them at the last possible moment. If I'm going to use naryu's I use a JC one as you can try and land on the ground between the 17-27th frame (can be learnt visually if you look at zeldas hand position; her arms should be fully stretched out on first spin when you hit the ground) which should give the best results as the opponent will have 10 frames to put in a DI input that you can use to your advantage. You don't want to do it too early as they will be able to DI out before the 27th frame hitboxes. Reason you need to know the tumble is that you get a chance to not be punished for using naryu's. for fox his tumble % is around 35 HP. Just keep dtilting cpu until they start tumbling to find out %s (if someone knows of a thread with data for this would be nice :) ).

naryu's hitboxes also shift away from her in phase 2 from the direction zelda is facing. So if you are going to jump over an opponent/go too far you need to reverse before using naryu's.

Naryu's can give some stage control especially against marth if you can get close to him. If I get a naryu's off most of the time you can wavedash Dsmash or run up dsmash after it, but they have to be over their tumble % for it to work at all as you will still be stuck in endlag and they won't without it

note: The knockback isn't weight dependent either

also I came 25th in 104 man melee tourney this weekend, was alright but got knocked out by a pikachu player I train with and was TOing the event with :/.
Really old post, but incredibly informative. Thanks for postig this.
 

kjkj309

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
4
Wait, zelda totally can jump cancel neutral B, out of a run or out of shield. Just like shine. It happens on the first airborne frame so is that why you're not calling it a jump cancel like a grab or upsmash?
 
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Absolome

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
68
Location
Asheville, NC
I'm trying to compile a big list of melee glitches/odd things so that I can make a video about them in the future, and Zelda is the only character that I've got nothing for right now. Anyone in here know anything glitches that involve her?
 

BagrB0y

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
74
I'm trying to compile a big list of melee glitches/odd things so that I can make a video about them in the future, and Zelda is the only character that I've got nothing for right now. Anyone in here know anything glitches that involve her?
Wavedash
 
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