Okay, so I've posted things similar to this who-knows-how-many-times.
This one is... the post I had in the Sonic Impressions Thread (#293), revamped, edited and reposted in allisbrawl, then re-edited by darkNES when putting it back into his post in the Sonic Impressions Thread (#282).
Oh, and I'm editing this a little more >_>
Table of Contents (lol, it's that long ._.)
- ACRONYMS
- Phases (updated: 8/24 - "Time Limit")
- Move Properties
- - Charge (added: 5/24)
- - SD (hop)
- - ASC
- - SDR (updated 8/20)
- - SDJ
- Spin Shot (added: 5/24)
- Air Dash (added: 8/19)
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Post 2- Aerial Spin Charge: this move is too good.
- Quick overview on ASC
- Combos don exits! (combo usage and analysis of the ASC)
- - Simple combo
- - Perfect combo (with instructional diagram and pictures!)
- - Bonus (optimal damage combo)
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Post 3- Spin Dash (side-B) and Spindash (both) Discussion NEW! (5/30)
- Quick overview on Side-B's traits
- Move Usage (both side-B and down-B): aka "Which one's better?"
- - Down-B for offense?
- - Side-B for defense?
- - Spacing
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First off...
ACRONYMS
This is probably going to be the hardest thing to understand in this whole ordeal. The letters.
SD = Spin Dash (Hop) (Side-B)
SC = Spin Charge (Down-B)
SDR = Spin Dash Roll (the grounded rolling attack)
SDJ = Spin Dash Jump (jump attack that can be done out of a SDR)
ASC = Aerial Spin Charge (air Down-B)
Note: If a SDR goes to the edge of a platform, it becomes an ASC and assumes its properties. This means that even a Side-B Hop can turn into an ASC as long as you let it roll into the floor first.
Phases
You may have noticed that both moves roll, and both Side-B and Down-B can jump after the roll. Well, this is because the roll is actually the same move! Both the Side B and the Down B undergo 'phase changes', where they change 'moves' depending on where they are and what their previous phase was.
NOTE: "Charging" is a phase that is pretty obvious, but will be omitted here. More information will be found in the Move Properties section.
So here's how it works
Side B: (Aerial or ground)
SD (hop) -> SDR (-> SDJ)
SD (hop) -> jump cancel (while still in air)
SD (charge) -> Spin shot
SD (charge) -> Shield
Down B:
Ground
SDR (-> SDJ)
SDR (-> SDR) (turning around initiates a new SDR with lower power)
SDR (roll off platform) -> ASC
SDR (roll off platform) -> Spin shot
Aerial
ASC (land) -> SDR (->SDJ)
ASC -> jump cancel
ASC (land) -> Shield
ASC (charge) -> Spin shot
Move properties
Yes, believe it or not, there are differences in the moves, and it's not just that side-B hops and down-B doesn't. It becomes more obvious in their aerial versions. Down B and Side B record how much charge the moves have and whether or not you had a double jump when you started charging. It passes this information on to the next part until the move ends - which is... jump cancelling the move while it's in midair, the roll running out of spin, a Spin Dash Jump, or you falling to your death.
ohcraps, cs references incoming.
Bold: Important thing.
Underlines: Defining/unique features
Italics: Is related to interaction between 'phase changes', or when they flow into other moves.
STALE MOVE EFFECT: All of these moves share the same Stale Move counter. Each turn-around or phase-change you initiate all pool in for the same move. I guess calling these "phases" really was accurate, since they are all parts of the same move, aside from their starting points. But anyway, even Side-B's hop and ASC diminish each others' effects, as well as the rest of the moves, SDR, SDJ... the whole thing.
TIME LIMIT: After your initial release of the charge, you will remain in ball form until you jump (SDJ, double jump, etc), or until 2 seconds has passed. Keep this in mind when trying to incorporate spindash into your chase and mixup movements. This "timer" begins counting as soon as you release your charge, regardless of if it's side-B hop, ASC, or just a grounded spin charge- your spin will last for 2 seconds after you release.
Charge: (Creates charge data, takes in: 'remaining jumps')
Note- this covers both side-B and down-B's charge. Features here are common to both side-B and down-B unless otherwise specified.
- Aerial: If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled.
- Aerial: If you press Jump or Attack as the charge is released, you do a spin shot.
- Side-B's grounded charge can be cancelled by shield before full charge.
- Side-B's charge is unique in that you must hold B to charge (2 seconds for full charge), and that while charging, it moves Sonic backwards.
- Down-B's charge requires you to be holding Down on the control stick. Holding Down for about 1 second then releasing can let you do a single-charged SDR.
- Down-B can be fully charged for damage by tapping 3 times, full speed by tapping 5 times.
- Ground: If you press Jump or Attack while charging, turns into SDJ
SD (hop): (takes in: charge data, 'remaining jumps')
- 5-6% constant damage
- Grounded charge can be cancelled by shield as long as it's not fully charged.
- Has high priority and/or invincibility/dodge frames at the beginning of the hop
- Easier to do spinshot out of this move's charge, either from ground or air, due to the hop.
- Has a temporary attack hitbox that goes away after you go under your starting height
- Has higher air speed than normal jumps.
- Knocks the opponent slightly upwards.
- If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled, allowing you to follow-up with aerials
- Turns into SDR upon contact with ground
- Cannot be cancelled by shield on landing.
- Passes charge and 'remaining jumps' data to the SDR that follows.
ASC: (takes in: charge data, 'remaining jumps')
- Has a multiple hit combo:
- - First hit: 7-11 damage (damage based on velocity - hold forward for maximum damage)
- - - High knockback that can KO at higher %'s (170-180%+ on grounded opponents)
- - Follow-up hit: 7-10 damage (don't know what changes it)
- - - Lower knockback similar to side-B's knockback.
- Has higher air speed than normal jumps.
- If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled, allowing you to follow-up with aerials
- Turns into SDR on contact with ground
- Can be cancelled by shield on landing.
- Passes charge and 'remaining jumps' data to the SDR that follows.
SDR: (takes in: charge data, 'remaining jumps')
- 7-10 damage, 7 on turn-around.
- If you are moving slow enough (for example, slowed down by a hill, or a single charge roll after making contact with one object), you can shield and cancel the roll!
- During the turn-around, does not deal damage until the blue aura comes back.
- The turn-around is treated like a second SDR that has weaker charge (minimum 7% dmg, without stale moves)
- Charge data is taken in from the side B/ down B to determine speed and damage of the roll
- Gains/loses speed when travelling on slopes (goes faster if going down a hill and slower if going up).
- Combos naturally into a SDJ if [Attack], [Jump], or [Up] (for tap jump off) is pressed.
- Passes 'remaining jumps' data to SDJ.
- If you roll off a platform, passes 'remaining jumps' data to the ASC that follows.
SDJ: (takes in: 'remaining jumps')
Honestly, this move defines itself. Everything should be underlined XD
- 7 damage (constant damage/knockback)
- Has higher height than normal jump
- Has higher air speed than normal jumps.
- Has an attack hitbox until a little bit after it starts to go down.
- If there are still remaining jumps (double jump), can be jump cancelled (either started on floor or in air without double jumping).
- Can be cancelled by an aerial at any time.
So if that made any sense, I think the SDR and SDJ are treated as "ending moves" that take in charge / 'remaining jump' data from the Side-B or Down-B. Side B's "true form" can really just be the hop, and Down-B's "true form" is the aerial version; The rolling attack is just tacked on to both moves. A grounded Down-B is already on the floor (duh), so it goes straight into the rolling attack.
Spin Shot
Spin shot is the technique that allows you to do a "full hop" at something similar to running speed, allowing Sonic to have *gasp* high air speed!
The basic input for this is usually side-B (charge) > release + [Jump/Attack]
You may have noticed that it only works if you have a double jump remaining, and here's why: Spin shot IS a double jump. It will not work from a grounded Spin Charge because you are not in the air, and it will not work without a double jump because you can't jump-cancel the moves.
...But it is NOT a normal double-jump. The 'jump cancel' from pressing jump or attack during an aerial charge (both side/down-b), SD hop, or ASC is a little different from a normal double-jump, since you go into it pressing either [attack] or [jump]. I'm guessing it's this 'special' double-jump that allows you to Spin Shot.
This move only seems to work by jump-cancelling during an aerial phase change:
- Side-B (charge) > SD (Hop) + jump
- Aerial Down-b (charge) > ASC + jump
- SDR (roll off platform) > ASC + jump
You can't do it out of a SDJ because SDJ is the last move - it doesn't flow into any other phases.
Air Dash
"Air Dash" is a situational 'glitch' that works on certain levels only. The basic input for it is:
Side-B charge (upwards) on a 45 degree or steeper slope > release
This has a special "phase change" quite unlike the ones previously listed. The ground interrupts the invincibility frames of the hop, and sends you in a SDR while being completely invincible. If the ground ends while completely flat (horizontally) or rising, Sonic will launch horizontally into the air as though he were riding on invisible ground. If he passes a platform (can be above or under him) as he's in the air and makes contact with anything (projectile, person, etc) he will teleport to another height while still rolling.
If you don't have enough momentum to climb the slope and go backwards, you will still be in the invincible state (like for example, the side platforms in Brinstar). On longer hills, you can actually shield cancel the roll if slow down enough, ASC-style (for example, the moving platform in Rainbow Cruise).
If the ground goes downwards (for example, Yoshi's island), you may either: roll off the stage in an invincible ASC, airdash (it tends to happen in custom stages), or stall on the edge while spinning and go flying off the stage in screech stop animation when it runs out of power.
Airdash = invincible "floating" roll done out of side-B
iSDR = invincible roll
iASC = invincible ASC that results from being slope-reversed and falling downwards off a platform (like in Brinstar).
Air dash phase changes:
SD (charge) > iSDR (uphill/horizontal) > Airdash > (double jump)
SD (charge) > iSDR (downhill) > iASC > (double jump)
SD (charge) > iSDR (uphill, slow) > shield
SD (charge) > iSDR (turn around) > SDR > SDJ
It's very situational, but iSDR can be used to plow through things you normally wouldn't, like for example, a grenade/minefield, among other... fun things.
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Hopefully, it will help explain some things about the moves that you may or may not have been wondering about.
