Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

JoonNeutral

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I have stated that I'm very iffy on the doujin leak and I've done investigations on it myself. I want to believe DL but I don't have concrete enough reason to believe him to be right. I dunno why people say I prance around saying the leak is real. I just like talking about it and it brings attention to Reimu.

I'm fine with the twitter account and even commend you for doing it. The more attention Reimu/2hu gets the better. Just don't do this, please.

Especially when nothing has been debunked.

RE: the other stuff.

I guess that is the area where it's just this big, grey area where y'all seem to depend on the guy reporting from 5ch? That's fine, it seems like he reports decently distanced, aswell. As I said, it's fine to speculate about things, it's fun, but for real just leave this simple tweet alone because it's not anything, and if anything should make you more skeptical.
 
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zriL

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If Reimu was supposed to lead FP2 and was delayed, I don't think it's related to development delays due to the virus. It's more likely that the reveal was supposed to be at Reitaisai and since Reitaisai was cancelled, they decided to postpone the reveal.
 

zriL

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The amount of mental loops you have to go through for any of this to make sense is insane
I think you are the one who makes it more complicated than it really is.

I'm not completely convinced this leak is real or not, but there definitely is a simple scenario where the artefacting stuff make sense :

- Leaker is close to the devs, he gets to see the image and is able to copy it
- Dev posts it on twitter, leaker doesn't even need to know about it (artefacting happens)
- Leaker posts it later (different artefacting can definitely happen for many reasons, like how he copied the original, or how he uploaded his own, etc)

That's it. Very simple. No mental loops. There is no reason to believe this image is a throw-away for a twitter post, it's very common to use that kind of thing to present someone's work to the rest of the team. And it's not unlikely that the leaker would want to keep this image for months before leaking it, leakers do that all the time.

Then again, this doesn't prove the leak is true, but at the same time, there aren't more reasons to believe it's false either.
 
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Sc_Ev0lution

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If Reimu was supposed to lead FP2 and was delayed, I don't think it's related to development delays due to the virus. It's more likely that the reveal was supposed to be at Reitaisai and since Reitaisai was cancelled, they decided to postpone the reveal.
idk. Reitaisai is a big event, especially for a convention focusing on a single game series. But I don't see why Nintendo would have a reveal be there, or there exclusively. There gonna want as many eyes as possible for all their reveals, and well, there are more eyes on the internet than any convention.
And we know from Byleth Nintendo has only grown more protective of the smash characters, they want as few leaks as possible before a reveal, and the best way to do that is to have as few people in the know as possible.
 
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idk. Reitaisai is a big event, especially for a convention focusing on a single game series. But I don't see why Nintendo would have a reveal be there, or there exclusively. There gonna want as many eyes as possible for all their reveals, and well, there are more eyes on the internet than any convention.
And we know from Byleth Nintendo has only grown more protective of the smash characters, they want as few leaks as possible before a reveal, and the best way to do that is to have as few people in the know as possible.
I understand your line of thinking with this, as information travels fast on the internet. If they're announcing it on a live stream or a Direct-type event, then the internet's gonna pass that information around like a world-sized game of hot potato. Regardless of who announces it, info like that's gonna spread like wildfire. So yeah, I agree.

EDIT: First time I read this, I didn't process it enough. Whoops.
 
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Extremmefan

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idk. Reitaisai is a big event, especially for a convention focusing on a single game series. But I don't see why Nintendo would have a reveal be there, or there exclusively. There gonna want as many eyes as possible for all their reveals, and well, there are more eyes on the internet than any convention.
They'd likely do a stream at the same time it is scheduled to happen at the convention anyways, just for nonTouhou fans to know of it at the same time everyone else does. I Don't see how that'd have changed anything.
 

Sc_Ev0lution

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I understand your line of thinking with this, but I'm of the impression that you heavily underestimate how fast word travels on the internet. If they're announcing it on a live stream or a Direct-type event, then the internet's gonna pass that information around like a world-sized game of hot potato. Regardless of who announces it, info like that's gonna spread like wildfire.
I guess I was picturing more an in-person reveal than a Reisaitai live stream. And fair enough, it probably wouldn't take twitter/discord/SB long to notice "hey, there a new smash character revealed on some Japanese stream."

But I still think Nintendo would want to do the reveal themselves. Remember E3 last year? Most of SB was convinced we would see a MS reveal, either Steve of Banjo. And of that, there was a decent chunk who thought that the character reveal would happen during the Microsoft presentation, because its a Microsoft character or to show the closeness between the companies etc.

And we did get a Banjo & Kazooie reveal trailer, but it was during the Nintendo Direct, not the Microsoft presentation.

To me, it seems the big N wants to be in control of the reveals.
 
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I guess I was picturing more an in-person reveal than a Reisaitai live stream. And fair enough, it probably wouldn't take twitter/discord/SB long to notice "hey, there a new smash character revealed on some Japanese stream."

But I still think Nintendo would want to do the reveal themselves. Remember E3 last year? Most of SB was convinced we would see a MS reveal, either Steve of Banjo. And of that, there was a decent chunk who thought that the character reveal would happen during the Microsoft presentation, because its a Microsoft character or to show the closeness between the companies etc.

And we did get a Banjo & Kazooie reveal trailer, but it was during the Nintendo Direct, not the Microsoft presentation.

To me, it seems the big N wants to be in control of the reveals.
Oh, I agree with the MS part. During that Halo Infinite trailer, I was shaking like crazy because I thought when the guy said "You need to see this," he would look out of the ship and see the Smash logo. So yeah, I guess that's a good point.
 

zriL

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idk. Reitaisai is a big event, especially for a convention focusing on a single game series. But I don't see why Nintendo would have a reveal be there, or there exclusively. There gonna want as many eyes as possible for all their reveals, and well, there are more eyes on the internet than any convention.
And we know from Byleth Nintendo has only grown more protective of the smash characters, they want as few leaks as possible before a reveal, and the best way to do that is to have as few people in the know as possible.
They did it with Joker at the Game Awards so they could do it again. A reveal at reiteisai doesn't necessary mean more people aware of it. It's just a video on a stage, only one person needs to know.

The purpose of Reitaisai for a reveal is a hype crowd. Honestly, you wouldn't be able to see a very hype crowd for Touhou anywhere else.
 
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Extremmefan

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Still can see them doing it on the same day as the convention so they'd get both scenarios's benefits (wider audience and complete control) tbh
 

Sc_Ev0lution

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They did it with Joker at the Game Awards so they could do it again. A reveal at reiteisai doesn't necessary mean more people aware of it. It's just a video on a stage, only one person needs to know.

The purpose of Reitaisai for a reveal is a hype crowd. Honestly, you wouldn't be able to see a very hype crowd for Touhou anywhere else.
Fair enough. I still don't think it's likely, but there is a precedent for Nintendo doing character reveals outside of their own events. We'll see if that repeats.

And yeah, people think the Nintendo NY reactions are hype, but that won't hold a candle to a Reimu reveal at Reisaitai.
 

JoonNeutral

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I think you are the one who makes it more complicated than it really is.

I'm not completely convinced this leak is real or not, but there definitely is a simple scenario where the artefacting stuff make sense :

- Leaker is close to the devs, he gets to see the image and is able to copy it
- Dev posts it on twitter, leaker doesn't even need to know about it (artefacting happens)
- Leaker posts it later (different artefacting can definitely happen for many reasons, like how he copied the original, or how he uploaded his own, etc)

That's it. Very simple. No mental loops. There is no reason to believe this image is a throw-away for a twitter post, it's very common to use that kind of thing to present someone's work to the rest of the team. And it's not unlikely that the leaker would want to keep this image for months before leaking it, leakers do that all the time.

Then again, this doesn't prove the leak is true, but at the same time, there aren't more reasons to believe it's false either.
As I said, you are implying that this image is secretive, or something only "a few people get to see" when it contains something quite literally only for a specific dude on twitter. This isn't something you show to other devs, this has nothing to do with development of 17.5 even, this is literally just showcasing a program's function. This isn't a "two step" thing, he made the image *for* twitter only quickly in MS paint specifically to show off a feature of Notability. There is nothing to "show" to devs, and even if you are still saying that artifacting somehow matters when it doesnt in this context.

Using this logic I could take a publicly released render of Mario for Smash Ultimate, re-post it and say "Yeah. This is a secret render of Mario, you have seen it already yeah, but it has different artifacting." and you could make the exact same claim. I am just close to the devs, got the image, and I post it later, thats where the different artifacting happens given its literally a screencap and this is how artifacting works. Believe me boys.

Do you not see how insane defending this is? Using artifacting of an image as a "basis" that it comes from a different "source" when artifacting does not mean that at all?

Outside of this, the image, once again, is 70% him showing off a feature of Notability, not the "concept art". There is nothing to show to a "team" here. There is something to show for a single twitter user, and that is that notability can convert written text into a string, that's it. This is 100% a throw-away for a twitter post because thats literally what the post is about and the entire context is about - there is nothing of value here as the focus.
 
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Blankiturayman

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A reveal at Reitaisai feels a little weird to me because in a way it feels a bit exclusive-- as if it's just for the Touhou fanbase rather than the general Smash fanbase. Which is probably fine and, who knows, maybe could even happen, but I'm not too keen on it. There was the game awards reveal yes, but that was a stream watched by people who generally liked games. Though it is an event outside of Nintendo's usual ones, so there's that.

One thing that I do remember also feeling a bit exclusive was Shulk's reveal in 4. It was done in a Japanese-only Nintendo Direct iirc (I was up pretty early to watch it)-- which feels pretty similar, and although this was their own Direct, and well, a few years ago too, so things could've changed, there's the possibility something like this could happen again. I guess we'll see.
 

zferolie

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I don't think we would have a reveal at Reiatsu, as its really a JP only event. The game awards may be a us event but it is stream worldwide, not Reiatsu though.

I could have seen maybe a surprise direct retailer drop right during the event, or at the last moment announce they are going to stream the event world wide just for this.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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FYI, here are the posts I made back in August when the leak happened and the conversation I had with perfectchaos83 about the image in question.
The image was never meant be "his" leak.
https://smashboards.com/goto/post?id=23489241
https://smashboards.com/goto/post?id=23490028
https://smashboards.com/goto/post?id=23490028

The leaker is now saying all that Reimu & Yukari tag team and Sanae & Kanako echo were all his fantasies. May be he has been hearing things other than that supposed track lists, but we shouldn't be focusing on those claims.
Sorry for double post.

I should've translate all his posts back in August.
Yeah, that image was not a leak from him.


Post No.844:
Yukari moves like AoCF.
Youkai Buster has super long-range hitboxes.
The stage is Seirensen.

These things I hear a lot.
Other than that, I made things up to sound interesting based on random rumors.
https://www.logsoku.com/r/2ch.sc/famicom/1564768609/844


Post No.818
Guy working for the official is making this public half in joke, they're hopeless.
https://i.imgur.com/J5wGlh4.jpg [deleted by him right after but this was the image]
https://www.logsoku.com/r/2ch.sc/famicom/1564768609/818
 

perfectchaos83

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I don't think a reveal would have ever happened at Reitaisai, however, I do think a reveal around Reitaisai was a possibility. Technically, it's what would have happened had the Corona Virus not delayed (and subsequently cancelled) the event. It may not have been Reimu, but that week would have been my guess at a reveal if it were. (But we got ARMS, so eh...)
 

zriL

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Actually, there are a few things that point to ARMS not being intended as the first character. They revealed it without a trailer and without the character, the actual reveal is in June and maybe June was the only intended reveal. The march semi-reveal wasn't necessary if there was another character supposed to be revealed at that time, and that reveal clearly looked low-effort as if it was not prepared. Besides, they didn't clarified the release of the ARMS character, so it could be even later. For the first FP2 character to be revealed 5-months after the last FP1 character, it's a strange timing when we know they should release about 3 characters per year.

On the other hand, it's totally possible that Corona just delayed the development of the ARMS character. But honestly, I work as a developper and the situation didn't really delayed our work. It's very easy for developers to work from home. There are a few things like voice acting that could be more complicated though.
 
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Sc_Ev0lution

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Actually, there are a few things that point to ARMS not being intended as the first character. They revealed it without a trailer and without the character, the actual reveal is in June and maybe June was the only intended reveal. The march semi-reveal wasn't necessary if there was another character supposed to be revealed at that time, and that reveal clearly looked low-effort as if it was not prepared. Besides, they didn't clarified the release of the ARMS character, so it could be even later. For the first FP2 character to be revealed 6-months after the last FP1 character, it's a strange timing when we know they should release about 3 characters per year.

On the other hand, it's totally possible that Corona just delayed the development of the ARMS character. But honestly, I work as a developper and the situation didn't really delayed our work. It's very easy for developers to work from home. There are a few things like voice acting that could be more complicated though.
I went back to double check, and in the ARMS teaser they said the fighter "will be revealed and released in June."

We know from one of Sakurai's tweets to Japanese FP1 buyers from back in winter 2018-19 that for the first FP three characters were in development concurrently (I assume at varying paces, but there's no way to know). Sakurai has also said that it take about 6 months to finish a character (this is from memory, I couldn't track down the source it comes from). However, right from the beginning and before Corona FP2 was slated to release by the end of 2021. 6 characters over 24 months is way slower than the 5 characters over 15 months of the first FP. While some of that is probably due to reduced staff, it could be they've reduced production to 2 fighters at a time <-- THIS IS PURE CONJECTURE

So...
let's say the ARMS fighter started development after Terry's release in late November/early December. This would be appropriate if the ARMS fighter were the first in a two character rotation or the second in a three character rotation. If we keep a six month turnaround time, that would put the release some time in May. tbh, I could see a slightly scaled back team extending that time to June, and it does explain why there wasn't anything to show off in March.
BUT if things were still going on schedule anyway, and they were intent on a simultaneous full reveal and release, then the only reason they would have for the teaser at all (aside from a behind the scenes shuffle, which I will get to) is to sate all the smash fans online asking "who's the next fighter?" which seems distinctly unlike Nintendo to me. They play their cards very close to their chest, even when what their hiding is super obvious.

If instead, the ARMS rep began development after Banjo in September, a 6 month dev cycle puts an appropriate release mid-March. If that's the case, it makes way more sense that Nintendo would make a big deal about publicly confirming some detail of the fighter in development, because at that point they're genuinely behind schedule. And sure, the Corona situation played a part, but even in the teaser they make mention that the complexity of an ARMS fighter is the main cause of the delay.

The scenario of the character swap, to me at least, would have to go something like this:
-Character 1 (let's say Reimu) enters development in September
-The ARMS fighter enters development in December
-By March, progress on Reimu has slowed so much that it makes more sense to switch over to the ARMS rep
-Because of the delay, Nintendo gets out ahead of the drought and says an ARMS char is coming
-the ARMS fighter releases in June, followed by Reimu in August/September

With so little information to work with, it is hard to piece together what is really going on behind the scenes. But with what we do know, I'm not seeing enough to say that there was a swap. I think that the second scenario presented makes the most sense, and that we can take Nintendo's statement at face value that the ARMS's characters development was delayed in part because of design difficulties.
 
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If Reimu's reveal was to be in this season. She would've been revealed in Spring which is the season she is associated with.
Though keep in mind, it's still Spring right now, so we've still got a shot. And if we're getting an announcement in tandem with the ARMS fighter, and at the time E3 was supposed to happen, two birds with one stone, right?
 

Sc_Ev0lution

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I suppose a double reveal isn't out of the question, but we won't know until we get there. And even if there is, I doubt both will be released at the same time.

If Reimu's reveal was to be in this season. She would've been revealed in Spring which is the season she is associated with.
There's always next year :crying:
 
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zriL

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I went back to double check, and in the ARMS teaser they said the fighter "will be revealed and released in June."
Indeed, my bad. Then it's much less likely since that would make 2 released characters in less than 6 months.

However, it still kind of work if they moved forward Arms character release to fill the hole.

Still, I disagree with your scenario. I don't think there would be a reason to switch character order only because of development delay. It's unlikely that Reimu would be delayed and Arms character wouldn't, so the order would stay the same. I think it has to be about the reveal, that's why I like the idea of a Reitaisai reveal that couldn't happen because of the virus.

Interestingly, in early March, so before the mini-direct, Reiteisai was first postponed to May. It's only in early April that they announced the cancellation. So maybe there was a moment in early march that they thought about keeping Reimu as first and reveal her in May. Then they finally decided to change plans because they have to decide the earliest possible if they want to switch character.

Then again, this is only speculative. But at least it makes sense and it would explain a few weird things. To me, the most strange is the low-effort semi-reveal and how late the first character is. Even if they slowed their development for FP2, the first character should have been the least affected by this because it should have started during the end of FP1, around September. So this would make 9 months for the first character, and they weren't able to show a trailer at 6 months of development.
 
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BeatMario of COOL&CREATE is collaborating with HoloLive VTubers to make a Touhou album.

Releases May 17.

Also Fubuki and Marine got interviewed by Touhou Garakuta which got published earlier.
 
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Fixed it. Should be good now i hope. :nifty:

Edit: BeatMario did clarify that The album is of course, not a official Touhou collaboration and just a Doujin Project between his Music Circle and HoloLive.
 
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zferolie

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BernkastelWitch

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Touhou announcements ? Almost guaranted.
Touhou in Smash anouncement ? Very unlikely.
If we ever get an announcement for Reimu in Smash, it'll likely be in a Direct/Mini Direct. Not an entire Indie show.

This does remind me when some people thought Banjo would be announced for Smash in Microsofts E3 conference. We did get Banjo-Kazooie into Smash but from Nintendos E3, not Microsofts. If we get Reimu it'd be the same there.
 
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If we ever get an announcement for Reimu in Smash, it'll likely be in a Direct/Mini Direct. Not an entire Indie show.

This does remind me when some people thought Banjo would be announced for Smash in Microsofts E3 conference. We did get Banjo-Kazooie into Smash but from Nintendos E3, not Microsofts. If we get Reimu it'd be the same there.
I mean, if Touhou games for Switch or any general Touhou games, do get announced at the Indie Live Expo, it would make sense for Reimu to be announced for Smash Bros alongside the lucky ARMS character since an Indie Live Touhou announcement would be fresh on everyone's minds.

Banjo's a good point, since the concept of Microsoft characters in Smash was fresh in everyone's minds during the entirety of E3 last year, and even beforehand what with Microsoft's being buddy-buddy with Nintendo.
 
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zferolie

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I mean, if Touhou games for Switch or any general Touhou games, do get announced at the Indie Live Expo, it would make sense for Reimu to be announced for Smash Bros alongside the lucky ARMS character since an Indie Live Touhou announcement would be fresh on everyone's minds.

Banjo's a good point, since the concept of Microsoft characters in Smash was fresh in everyone's minds during the entirety of E3 last year, and even beforehand what with Microsoft's being buddy-buddy with Nintendo.
This is what i see happening if Reimu is coming to smash. The indie presentation could announce Nintendo is that mystery partner, and then during the arms direct they show the trailer for Reimu in smash.

However if one was going to the pure surprise factor of Reimu in smash, starting a fully animated trailer that looks like its an anime trailer for touhou, but it turns out to be a smash trailer for her, would be very hype
 

zriL

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However if one was going to the pure surprise factor of Reimu in smash, starting a fully animated trailer that looks like its an anime trailer for touhou, but it turns out to be a smash trailer for her, would be very hype
They are actually aiming for 1 million viewers, I don't even know if that kind of show can reach that number. But if it's true, it might be similar to the audience for an E3 conference. In that sense, it wouldn't be completely absurd to do a reveal there. It's also worth noting that Toby Fox will be there too.
 

EarlTamm

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You know, is it known why the Switch version of Luna Nights hasn't been released yet? I was looking to buy a new game for my Switch and figured to finally try out something Touhou related though Luna Nights, but was surprise when it wasn't on the eshop. It's been quite awhile.
 

Sc_Ev0lution

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You know, is it known why the Switch version of Luna Nights hasn't been released yet? I was looking to buy a new game for my Switch and figured to finally try out something Touhou related though Luna Nights, but was surprise when it wasn't on the eshop. It's been quite awhile.
Unfortunately there hasn't been any news since it was announced for Switch. It's a shame since I'd totally double dip, but at least it's on Steam with full and competent English support.
 

EarlTamm

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Unfortunately there hasn't been any news since it was announced for Switch. It's a shame since I'd totally double dip, but at least it's on Steam with full and competent English support.
Thanks for the info. I will probably get it on Steam down the line, but its sad that the Switch still hasn't gotten it. I looked at the other Touhou fangames on the eshop, but nothing really stood out to me in comparison. Hopefully it does appear down the line.
 

EarlTamm

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I don't know if this topic has ever been brought up here, but how do you think they would approach Reimu appearance wise? I imagine there is varying approaches they could take.
 
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I don't know if this topic has ever been brought up here, but how do you think they would approach Reimu appearance wise? I imagine there is varying approaches they could take.
I mean, if Sakurai can pull off the Toriyama art style for the Heroes, then it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to pull off ZUN's style for Reimu.

An interesting case study, good sir. If I may add something to this real quick: character reveals during E3.

Nintendo has always revealed more than one new Smash fighter at E3. E3 2013: Smash 4 was Villager, Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer for its first reveal. 2014: Mii Fighters, Palutena, and Pac-Man. 2015: Roy and Ryu. E3 2018: Inkling (We knew she was in, but to what extent was unknown at the time), Daisy and Ridley. E3 2019: Hero and Banjo & Kazooie.

For E3 this year, we have the ARMS character, whoever that may be, as one of the fighters. If we're going with this Doujin leak, and assuming the ARMS character won't be alone, we can certainly see Challenger Pack 7: Reimu revealed as well, in addition to maybe Challenger Pack 8.
 
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Inoj

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I only now watched this. Circle Nine Time.

Reminds me of those doujin covers where everybody is Buff.
 
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