Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[lady_sky skipper]

I don't think Seihou warrants anything else in Smash besides Vivit getting a spirit.

I was actually talking about was a Touhou Project spinoff shmup game where they travel to the Seihou Project world and team up with the main characters. Sorry if I confused you.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

afaik, Seihou has been dead as a doornail for the better part of 20 years, and the doujin circle that made them has long since disbanded. I also have no idea who the proper rights holder is, so I doubt there will be more than a VIVIT cameo once every 100 fangames or so.

 

[TheTuninator]

... Are we really debating Assist Trophies (when those never get added via DLC) or future roster additions?
Lets not kid ourselves, we are lucky if we get Reimu in the first place. And we also know that Marisa is the Luigi to Reimu like Ken is to Ryu.
But thats just me. In my opinion, Touhou is not as huge as people might wish it to be, so in the greater scope of things we might need to think of minimalistic expectations on how Reimu and Touhou can get into Smash in the first place.

kaithehedgefox Also we already discussed and told you about your obessiveness regarding popularity and fame.
The past pages you made yourself look like you have no clue about what you are actually talking about while repeating statements and questions people already answered you. I hope you can be considerate, I have been told its kind of irritating to a lot of people reading or participating this thread.

Agreed. I can understand why people would want their favorite 2hu in, but in the extremely unlikely scenario that we actually do get 2 characters in, there's just nobody the #2 could be besides Marisa. It'd be like adding, say, Dorothea to Smash instead of Byleth. Marisa is the series' other protagonist and is way more important than anyone else besides Reimu. She's important enough that even if we were to get only Reimu, I still expect that Marisa would pop up in her Final Smash. But, as you say, getting Reimu is unlikely enough - getting two characters would be virtually impossible.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Agreed. I can understand why people would want their favorite 2hu in, but in the extremely unlikely scenario that we actually do get 2 characters in, there's just nobody the #2 could be besides Marisa. It'd be like adding, say, Dorothea to Smash instead of Byleth. Marisa is the series' other protagonist and is way more important than anyone else besides Reimu. She's important enough that even if we were to get only Reimu, I still expect that Marisa would pop up in her Final Smash. But, as you say, getting Reimu is unlikely enough - getting two characters would be virtually impossible.

Marisa is the deuteragonist of the Touhou franchise.

 

[zferolie]

Any of you guys going to play the lost world mobile gacha game, or know of its good?

 

[TheTuninator]

Any of you guys going to play the lost world mobile gacha game, or know of its good?

I'm definitely going to give it a go.

 

[Commander_Alph]

The majority of the Touhou cast would be better off as assist trophies or spirits, except for Reimu, Marisa, Youmu and Sanae. As far as I know, the rest of the Touhou characters have no place on the roster, mainly because nobody knows them anymore. Simple as that!

First off, you just quoted my post and say something that contradict my statement when I firmly said that that spirit list is specifically for Reimu if she ever get added into the base game, not Marisa, Youmu or Sanae.


Second, I just don't like scaling character being playable just because everyone know them and yet you fail to give an example on why Youmu and Sanae is more popular cause, I have never seen someone outside the community talk about those 2 when someone like Sakuya and Cirno actually HAS fans that isn't even into Touhou from music and memes and one such example being Alpharad and yet you shot that down also just because "They used to be popular" as if popularity of a character is permanent just ask Pichu, Greninja, and Incineroar for that

Third, the way I see a character in Touhou being playable is NOT by popularity but rather familiarity as in them being playable in the Danmaku game which is something not uncommon and also in the fighting game to make their moveset more easier but that's just an added bonus. So someone like:

1. Youmu
2. Sanae
3. Sakuya
4. Cirno
5. Aya
6. Reisen
7. And even Yukari (partially because we need a villain at some point)

Is a possible runner-up for a 3rd Touhou character even if that will never happened.

 

[SharkLord]

Any of you guys going to play the lost world mobile gacha game, or know of its good?

I'll consider it. First I'll need an up-to-date phone that won't blaze through battery in an hour, though.

 

[Quidd Dude]

Any of you guys going to play the lost world mobile gacha game, or know of its good?

I played it, it's good but after a while it gets boring.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

First off, you just quoted my post and say something that contradict my statement when I firmly said that that spirit list is specifically for Reimu if she ever get added into the base game, not Marisa, Youmu or Sanae.

I already read that your statement was about what Touhou spirits we would get if Reimu was added in the base game.

Second, I just don't like scaling character being playable just because everyone know them and yet you fail to give an example on why Youmu and Sanae is more popular cause, I have never seen someone outside the community talk about those 2 when someone like Sakuya and Cirno actually HAS fans that isn't even into Touhou from music and memes and one such example being Alpharad and yet you shot that down also just because "They used to be popular" as if popularity of a character is permanent just ask Pichu, Greninja, and Incineroar for that

Once again, fame ≠ popularity. Youmu and Sanae are more widely known, but not more popular, because of their playability in the Touhou games. I think we should end this discussion about fame here unless things change later on.

Third, the way I see a character in Touhou being playable is NOT by popularity but rather familiarity as in them being playable in the Danmaku game which is something not uncommon and also in the fighting game to make their moveset more easier but that's just an added bonus. So someone like:

1. Youmu
2. Sanae
3. Sakuya
4. Cirno
5. Aya
6. Reisen
7. And even Yukari (partially because we need a villain at some point)

Is a possible runner-up for a 3rd Touhou character even if that will never happened.

When you say "familiarity as in them being playable in the Danmaku game". I'm guessing you mean how often the characters are playable in the official Touhou games.

Given the aforementioned obscurity of the rest of the Touhou Characters, Excluding Reimu, Marisa, Youmu, and Sanae, which Touhou Characters would you all like to see as assist trophies, spirits, or mii costumes?

 

[SharkLord]

I already read that your statement was about what Touhou spirits we would get if Reimu was added in the base game.


Once again, fame ≠ popularity. Youmu and Sanae are more widely known, but not more popular, because of their playability in the Touhou games. I think we should end this discussion about fame here unless things change later on.

...Y'know, you could've just told me that earlier...

 

[kaithehedgefox]

...Y'know, you could've just told me that earlier...

Whoops, I almost forgot to mention that earlier. But I've finally found the evidence I've been looking for!

 

[Commander_Alph]

Once again, fame ≠ popularity. Youmu and Sanae are more widely known, but not more popular, because of their playability in the Touhou games. I think we should end this discussion about fame here unless things change later on.

And popularity ≠ recognizability. Get your mind out of the gutter and stop analyzing fan art cause that's not the only thing that Touhou had cause it seems that you just look into Danbooru and type in their name and then compare it by numbers and by "widely known" you mean inside the community. While on the other hand Sakuya and Cirno popularity still stay strong only because everyone outside the community knows them from music and memes which you can't discredited that easily just because they got the upper hand and have to go the same labor as Youmu and Sanae for it to be a legible, I mean if Sakuya and Cirno isn't that popular then why is Luna Night or even Fairy Wars even a thing if you scale them by popularity? Surely if Sanae and Youmu is popular you would think they will have a game or even a fangame dedicated to them?

When you say "familiarity as in them being playable in the Danmaku game". I'm guessing you mean how often the characters are playable in the official Touhou games.

And also how often they make multiple back-to-back appearance, forgot to say that but you get the point cause the ones that I listed have some sort of appearance outside their debut game, not counting printed media.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

And popularity ≠ recognizability. Get your mind out of the gutter and stop analyzing fan art cause that's not the only thing that Touhou had cause it seems that you just look into Danbooru and type in their name and then compare it by numbers and by "widely known" you mean inside the community. While on the other hand Sakuya and Cirno popularity still stay strong only because everyone outside the community knows them from music and memes which you can't discredited that easily just because they got the upper hand and have to go the same labor as Youmu and Sanae for it to be a legible, I mean if Sakuya and Cirno isn't that popular then why is Luna Night or even Fairy Wars even a thing if you scale them by popularity? Surely if Sanae and Youmu is popular you would think they will have a game or even a fangame dedicated to them?

I hate having to repeat myself, but as a reminder, Sakuya, Cirno, Remilia, Flandre, etc, are popular, but that doesn't make them famous/well-known, thus they still remain obscure. This is beginning to remind me of how Megaman is more famous, but not more popular than Ryu, Ken, or Chun-Li (Street Fighter). anymore.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I hate having to repeat myself, but as a reminder, Sakuya, Cirno, Remilia, Flandre, etc, are popular, but that doesn't make them famous/well-known, thus they still remain obscure. This is beginning to remind me of how Megaman is more famous, but not more popular than Ryu, Ken, or Chun-Li (Street Fighter). I really don't want to continue this talk about fame anymore.

That's because you're statement is stupidly ambiguous

 

[kaithehedgefox]

That's because you're statement is stupidly ambiguous

And to answer your question about Sakuya and Cirno, it's because they are popular, despite their obscurity. I really don't want to continue this talk about fame anymore.

 

[SharkLord]

Whoops, I almost forgot to mention that earlier. But I've finally found the evidence I've been looking for!

And my response is that in a fandom-driven franchise like Touhou, just because they're playable in the latest installment doesn't necessarily imply recognizability. Most people know Touhou from the fanworks and not the official games. Music, fanart, fangames, every part of Touhou exposes people to the characters, not just the shooters.
It should also be noted that fame is still very much tied to popularity, especially given Touhou's situation. Popular characters get shown in more fanworks, more people see those fanworks, and more people know those characters. If playability is the basis, then the likes of Miko and Byakuren are more famous than Cirno, which... Doesn't quite seem right.

 

[Quidd Dude]

I hate having to repeat myself, but as a reminder, Sakuya, Cirno, Remilia, Flandre, etc, are popular, but that doesn't make them famous/well-known, thus they still remain obscure. This is beginning to remind me of how Megaman is more famous, but not more popular than Ryu, Ken, or Chun-Li (Street Fighter). anymore.

I still don't understand what you mean, each time it gets even more confusing ngl.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

And my response is that in a fandom-driven franchise like Touhou, just because they're playable in the latest installment doesn't necessarily imply recognizability. Most people know Touhou from the fanworks and not the official games. Music, fanart, fangames, every part of Touhou exposes people to the characters, not just the shooters.
It should also be noted that fame is still very much tied to popularity, especially given Touhou's situation. Popular characters get shown in more fanworks, more people see those fanworks, and more people know those characters. If playability is the basis, then the likes of Miko and Byakuren are more famous than Cirno, which... Doesn't quite seem right.

"Playability is the basis" doesn't apply to all characters, this goes for any series of videogames, not just Touhou, and I agree "Miko and Byakuren are more famous than Cirno" doesn't sound right at all. Like most Touhou characters, Miko and Byakuren are obscure too.

I still don't understand what you mean, each time it gets even more confusing ngl.

Could we all please stop this discussion about fame and popularity, I'm getting bored of it!

 

[Quidd Dude]

Could we all please stop this discussion about fame and popularity, I'm getting bored of it!

I mean sure but you were the one that started all of this so it makes sense that people are asking you all the questions.

 

[Commander_Alph]

That's what I'm saying, cause is he scaling popularity based on inside or outside the community? Fanworks or just fan art? Quantity of game appearance or the quality that they impact?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

That's what I'm saying, cause is he scaling popularity based on inside or outside the community? Fanworks or just fan art? Quantity of game appearance or the quality that they impact?

To be specific, I was scaling fame and popularity outside of the community or in general, not just within the community. And quantity of game appearances or quality they impact can be factors, but not always. I think I've given my clarification now.

 

[zferolie]

I played it, it's good but after a while it gets boring.

How F2P friendly is it? I don't want to start another gacha game unless I go F2P(I play genshin and FGO right now

 

[Quidd Dude]

How F2P friendly is it? I don't want to start another gacha game unless I go F2P(I play genshin and FGO right now

I haven't played a lot of gacha games (i've only played lost world and jojo's pitter patter pop) but it is F2P friendly, i got a lot of characters without paying.

 

[Quidd Dude]

View attachment 295506
Made a mock-up spirit list of every possible Touhou character that could be added into Smash Bros Ultimate if Reimu were added since the base game.


Feel free to discuss it


Oh! And I also made one for Ace Attorney and Puyo Puyo and I'm planning to post it each in own their respective support thread but it's still under construction.

I forgot to say my opinions on this, pretty good list but i would add Rumia and Yuugi to it.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I forgot to say my opinions on this, pretty good list but i would add Rumia and Yuugi to it.

It's Yuugi from Touhou, not the Yuugi from Yugioh, that we think of.

 

[Quidd Dude]

It's Yuugi from Touhou, not the Yuugi from Yugioh, that we think of. And speaking of Yuugi, While Yuugi (Touhou) is certainly a videogame character, Yugi (Yugioh) is in the grey zone of whether or not he is a videogame character or not.

I mean we are on a Reimu for smash thread so ofc it's Yuugi from Touhou, why would someone think it's Yugi from Yugioh?

 

[Quidd Dude]

View attachment 295506
Made a mock-up spirit list of every possible Touhou character that could be added into Smash Bros Ultimate if Reimu were added since the base game.


Feel free to discuss it


Oh! And I also made one for Ace Attorney and Puyo Puyo and I'm planning to post it each in own their respective support thread but it's still under construction.

Oh and also i would probably add Meiling here since the EOSD cast is the most popular leaving some characters feels weird for me

 

[gavtel]

afaik, Seihou has been dead as a doornail for the better part of 20 years, and the doujin circle that made them has long since disbanded. I also have no idea who the proper rights holder is, so I doubt there will be more than a VIVIT cameo once every 100 fangames or so.

Although the doujin circle's been disbanded, one of the former members, Ponchi, has made April Fools Day games for last year and this year. Last year's one was based off of Seihou (though he says it isn't a Seihou game) called VIVIT-99, a battle royale game where grazing sends projectiles over to the opponent's side (since it's based off of Seihou 3's engine, there was an easter egg where you could play as the other playable character from Seihou 3, Hirano Sakurasaki, which also changed the name of the game to "HIRANON-99"). Although you can't get the game officially anymore, it has been archived by fans so you can still play it.

The other April Fools Day game on the other hand was "Ragnus X Docking", a game with funnily shaped spaceships and the videos of the game have the two ships named "Seme" and "Uke". The way to cheese that game was to dock in the middle and fire at the enemies from there. The game wasn't archived due to Ponchi taking precautions against it being playable after April Fools Day.

 

[Rikarte]

If we get any Seihou content it's probably going to be in the form of this song:

 

[Commander_Alph]

Oh and also i would probably add Meiling here since the EOSD cast is the most popular leaving some characters feels weird for me

I forgot to say my opinions on this, pretty good list but i would add Rumia and Yuugi to it.

I tried to even out the roster of spirit and try to avoid any repeat. Ibraki already occupied the space for the series' martial artist and Suika already occupied the position of the series' Oni which is what Yuugi is.

While I could add Rumia in I tried to avoid artwork that is heavily cut-off and Rumia is one of them as the only artwork that I could found are her EoSD portrait in which it's a half body and the arms is missing, tho that could be fixed since I know ZUN still has her full artwork but I can't really add her in now.

 

[TheTuninator]

If we get any Seihou content it's probably going to be in the form of this song:

Ah, we really need Touhou music in Smash. Gimme that 50-song DLC, Sakurai!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I know it’ll probably never happen but if Reimu came with a couple of other indie game songs like from Shantae, Azure Striker Gunvolt (aaaa please) and while this is a first - a Korean indie - Lobotomy Corporation and/or Library of Ruina music would be a D R E A M

aaaaa I’m getting hype just imagining Reimu busting up Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth and (two hypotheticals) KOS-MOS and Crash to the Second Trumpet theme

ps I run a Lobotomy Corp/Library of Ruina content support thread so if you wanna check it out...

 

[Commander_Alph]

Ah, we really need Touhou music in Smash. Gimme that 50-song DLC, Sakurai!

I would be happy if ZUN allowed 50 of his music be added without any hesitation just like SNK and also if I were to connect the dot and compare similarities to each character in FP1 and FP2 I'd say she will be this Pass' Terry due to her being an unexpected addition tho she was helped a little by the Doujin Leak.

 

[TheTuninator]

I would be happy if ZUN allowed 50 of his music be added without any hesitation just like SNK and also if I were to connect the dot and compare similarities to each character in FP1 and FP2 I'd say she will be this Pass' Terry due to her being an unexpected addition tho she was helped a little by the Doujin Leak.

I can't imagine any reason ZUN wouldn't just tell them "let 'er rip" with the music. IMO it's really more a question of whether the Smash team has any people that would want to pull in a ton of Touhou songs (since it's clear that a huge factor behind the insane SNK song list was Sakurai's passion for SNK games and SNK music).

 

[Commander_Alph]

(since it's clear that a huge factor behind the insane SNK song list was Sakurai's passion for SNK games and SNK music).

Didn't that happened to almost every DLC character in this and not just because he is biased to SNK? Since in the Terry Presentation he says that he and his team choose the maximum of 50 music and it's up to SNK if they want to dwindle them down or replace them one by one,

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Didn't that happened to almost every DLC character in this and not just because he is biased to SNK? Since in the Terry Presentation he says that he and his team choose the maximum of 50 music and it's up to SNK if they want to dwindle them down or replace them one by one,

I don't think he was talking about all the dlc characters. I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai sends developers a selection of songs and they negotiate it down from there, but from the tone of the presentation it sounded like Sakurai and co. got carried away with themselves and sent many more songs than they would normally.

Assuming that's close to accurate, that might be bad news for Touhou music if Reimu gets in. Unless someone in the dev team happens to be a massive Touhou fan, we might get only ~25 songs. (I say only knowing that's way more than most other dlc, but I'm assuming they sent all their suggestions and ZUN sent back a "yes").

 

[TheTuninator]

I don't think he was talking about all the dlc characters. I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai sends developers a selection of songs and they negotiate it down from there, but from the tone of the presentation it sounded like Sakurai and co. got carried away with themselves and sent many more songs than they would normally.

Assuming that's close to accurate, that might be bad news for Touhou music if Reimu gets in. Unless someone in the dev team happens to be a massive Touhou fan, we might get only ~25 songs. (I say only knowing that's way more than most other dlc, but I'm assuming they sent all their suggestions and ZUN sent back a "yes").

Sakurai being a bullet hell guy, I'm sure he's at least aware of Touhou. I'd love to know if he's a "spaceships only" bullet hell purist or not, haha.

 

[Soulor]

Wait is the gacha game out already? I signed up on the one page with my email and haven't heard or received anything yet. Unless I just missed it.

edit: when does it come out? Can't seem to find a date.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I mean we are on a Reimu for smash thread so ofc it's Yuugi from Touhou, why would someone think it's Yugi from Yugioh?

When I hear the word "Yugi" I think of the titular main protagonist of Yugioh.