Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Mmac]

How are any low tier characters honestly more viable?

It doesn't make them anymore viable, but without MetaKnight, the variety increases by tenfold. From the Test Tournaments with MetaKnight Banned, there was alot of the less common High/Mid Tier Characters being used moreso than any other tournament I have ever seen.

You won't see Falcon getting anymore attention, but the diversity will greatly improve

 

[rehab]

Nobody in low tier all of a sudden has a realistic chance. Neither does the grand majority of mid tier.

Aaaand old'd.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Higher tiers would be more viable yes. But low tiers would still be low tiers because they suck xD.

 

[salaboB]

No they haven't. MK does not have a 70-30 matchup against the entire cast. Metaknight does not have a 60-40 matchup against the entire cast. It just so happens almost every good player is picking up MK right now. If MK had a 70-30 on every character no other characters would place even remotely high. I see other characters getting in the top 3 of tournaments, outplacing several good MK players. That means MK isn't (too) broken.

Nobody has said the only reason to ban MK is because he has such strong matchups. That's just one part of it, and nobody has seriously disagreed with him having a few neutrals (Or close to neutrals -- it's a bit hard to be accurate about that) either.

In case you didn't see it (It showed up near the bottom of a page) I also covered your full post of points earlier.

 

[Gea]

Higher tiers would be more viable yes. But low tiers would still be low tiers because they suck xD.

Exactly, so people need to stop making this argument.

Also you have to consider that test tournaments are flawed. People will settle into the high/top spots no matter who is banned. I'm not saying that four/five characters is worse than two dominating ones, but its there. Especially with Snake still around, whose "bad matchups" are very stage dependant.

I'm not going to voice a strong opinion either way in this topic, I'd just prefer people to stop using flawed arguments for or against.

 

[Mmac]

Higher tiers would be more viable yes. But low tiers would still be low tiers because they suck xD.

I dunno.... Characters like Link and Samus could benefit more from MetaKnight's Removal, and could actually be more viable. Yoshi too, but he shouldn't have been in Low Tier in the first place.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Except that they still have just as small of a chance against DDD, GW, Falco, Snake, and Marth. I don't see how you can argue that replacing one with the other is making a case for low tiers to have an easier time.

Let's put it this way then. People are moving away from the low tier characters because MK provides a safe haven of sorts. In fact, people are moving from all tiers. Chances are, (chances, yes, but they are) that people are going to move back to those characters and find new things out about them, heck, who knows, one of those low tier characters could have some hidden AT that makes him a head above Marth, who knows?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Really people learn to actually play the game mk is not invincible. He is the best character in the game but in my area ive seen peaches and even lucas dominate why? because they know the matchup and practice against him instead of complaining.

 

[Icntspll]

Except that they still have just as small of a chance against DDD, GW, Falco, Snake, and Marth.

This is simply untrue...

 

[Skler]

Nobody has said the only reason to ban MK is because he has such strong matchups. That's just one part of it, and nobody has seriously disagreed with him having a few neutrals (Or close to neutrals -- it's a bit hard to be accurate about that) either.

In case you didn't see it (It showed up near the bottom of a page) I also covered your full post of points earlier.

If matchup dominance isn't the reason for banning MK what is? He's just a good character. Tons of people like playing him, he's one of the more popular characters among players who don't go to tournaments and is really popular in tournaments.

Banning MK would ruin the Brawl tournament scene because all the MK players wouldn't go...

Actually, ban MK.

 

[Gea]

Let's put it this way then. People are moving away from the low tier characters because MK provides a safe haven of sorts. In fact, people are moving from all tiers. Chances are, (chances, yes, but they are) that people are going to move back to those characters and find new things out about them, heck, who knows, one of those low tier characters could have some hidden AT that makes him a head above Marth, who knows?

Except that doesn't happen because people migrate to the next highest up if it matters that much to them. The people who want to play a character... play as that character. The people who want to solely do well pick who they feel is the best character they can possibly win with.

So by your logic the metagames of already commonly played characters will speed up slightly, and then everyone else gets a very minor boost.

This is simply untrue...

No its not. While a low tier might have one decent matchup against a high, the overwhelming majority are not in their favor and they still have alittle to no chance of winning, just like before.

 

[salaboB]

Really people learn to actually play the game mk is not invincible. He is the best character in the game but in my area ive seen peaches and even lucas dominate why? because they know the matchup and practice against him instead of complaining.

It's been tried.

What that means is that the Peaches and Lucas are simply better players than the MK, and could dominate him by using MK (Or likely most of the rest of the cast) too.

If you get a really good MK in the area, then you'll get to experience the "fun".

If matchup dominance isn't the reason for banning MK what is? He's just a good character. Tons of people like playing him, he's one of the more popular characters among players who don't go to tournaments and is really popular in tournaments.

Banning MK would ruin the Brawl tournament scene because all the MK players wouldn't go...

Actually, ban MK.

I said it isn't the only reason. Can you read my posts? Please?

And a lot of the MK players weren't originally MK mains, and would just switch back. The few who were purely MK mains will either pick up their next-preferred character, or quit. That is a loss to the tournament scene, but it's offset by stopping the loss of people who are tired of fighting MK, MK, MK, Snake, MK in tournaments.

 

[Steel]

It really is simple

If you beat a MK you are a much better player than the MK.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Really people learn to actually play the game mk is not invincible. He is the best character in the game but in my area ive seen peaches and even lucas dominate why? because they know the matchup and practice against him instead of complaining.

You're missing the point here...

First, if two people are both equally impressive, and say, one is peach and one is MK, and they both know the match up VERY well, to the same extent perhaps, the MK will win, without fail. Why? because MK has the advantage in so many ways.

Second, the point is the metagame is STAGNATING for many characters because MK is just too good. People HAVE been practicing against him AND learning the matchup. What's that changing? Not much.

 

[Mocha19]

This is dumb...

 

[fkacyan]

Evidently the opinion is much more divided than the people in the other thread thought.

HMM.

 

[BentoBox]

Really people learn to actually play the game mk is not invincible. He is the best character in the game but in my area ive seen peaches and even lucas dominate why? because they know the matchup and practice against him instead of complaining.

Peach is high tier silly boi

 

[WakerofWinds]

Except that doesn't happen because people migrate to the next highest up if it matters that much to them. The people who want to play a character... play as that character. The people who want to solely do well pick who they feel is the best character they can possibly win with.

So by your logic the metagames of already commonly played characters will speed up slightly, and then everyone else gets a very minor boost.



No its not. While a low tier might have one decent matchup against a high, the overwhelming majority are not in their favor and they still have alittle to no chance of winning, just like before.

Not true, the low tier characters will have more of a chance(maybe not much, but it'll be there). There /are/ people dropping their favorite characters in place of MK, be they low, mid, or high.

Regardless, none of this is really the point, but I've answered it as best I can for now.

 

[TLMSheikant]

There is a very good mk in my area so I know the pain lol. In fact there are 2.

 

[BentoBox]

Evidently the opinion is much more divided than the people in the other thread thought.

HMM.

And I suppose there is no consensus in the BR which is why it is likely we will not see a ban until next year.

 

[Kookie]

There is a very good mk in my area so I know the pain lol. In fact there are 2.

Obviously they have much to be desired in the skill field if they aren't consistently winning the tournaments in your area. Either that, or the Peach is a God at Brawl.

 

[Overswarm]

Evidently the opinion is much more divided than the people in the other thread thought.

HMM.

But I think it is pretty evident this is a snowball rolling downhill

 

[TLMSheikant]

The peach is a God in brawl lol. And yes the mk wins tourneys consitently ever heard of HDL?

 

[salaboB]

The peach is a God in brawl lol. And yes the mk wins tourneys consitently ever heard of HDL?

I guess this means your statement about Peach/Lucas dominating was misleading then.

 

[TLMSheikant]

well dominating as in placing high lol and going even with mks.

 

[Kookie]

I give up on trying to figure out what he means.

 

[fkacyan]

But I think it is pretty evident this is a snowball rolling downhill

It's a shame we can't see the regions each person who votes plays in.

The reason I say this isn't to say one region is better than another, but it'd be interesting to see how a region's metagame is affecting votes, and if the people who are placing in each region are voting yay or nay.

 

[i1337]

yes, i do want him to be banned. WAY too many MKs.

 

[rehab]

Not true, the low tier characters will have more of a chance(maybe not much, but it'll be there). There /are/ people dropping their favorite characters in place of MK, be they low, mid, or high.

Regardless, none of this is really the point, but I've answered it as best I can for now.

Major Viability problems for low tier off the top of my head:

Lucas: Marth + GW + Snake, at least

Ness: Marth + Snake, at least

Mario: GW + Dedede + Snake , at least

Pokemon Trainer: Top tier

Samus: GW + Dedede, at least

Yoshi: GW + Snake mebbe, idk Yoshi's matchups at all

Sonic: GW + Snake, at the very least

Jigg: GW + GW + GW

Ganon: Top tier

Link: Top tier

Falcon: Top tier

Just from top tier and lolmarth.

 

[bigman40]

Just to correct you, for Yoshi, it's GW + maybe Marth. Snake is 6:4 Snake advantage, but we can take him on better than those two (at least for GW, Marth was agreed as 65:35 Marth's advantage).

 

[cman]

Major Viability problems for low tier off the top of my head:

Lucas: Marth + GW + Snake, at least

Ness: Marth + Snake, at least

Mario: GW + Dedede + Snake , at least

Pokemon Trainer: Top tier

Samus: GW + Dedede, at least

Yoshi: GW + Snake mebbe, idk Yoshi's matchups at all

Sonic: GW + Snake, at the very least

Jigg: GW + GW + GW

Ganon: Top tier

Link: Top tier

Falcon: Top tier

Just from top tier and lolmarth.

All of those can be counter picked, though. (Yes, even Marth, who can be stage countered effectively) That's the point. You can main lower tiers with secondaries to cover bad match-ups once meta is out.

 

[rehab]

If everybody's using top tier and high tier characters anyway, who in low tier are you going to have any success maining? Why not just main your "counter pick" in tournament? They're all still pretty much relatively pointless characters when compared to better characters, ones which are not difficult to use and who do not have inherent "what the crap ***** to the moon" (edit: obvious exaggeration but yeah) disadvantages, that you could be using. Banning Metaknight does not change this.

 

[Overswarm]

If everybody's using top tier and high tier characters anyway, who in low tier are you going to have any success maining? Why not just main your "counter pick" in tournament? They're all still pretty much relatively pointless characters when compared to better characters, ones which are not difficult to use and who do not have inherent "what the crap ***** to the moon" (edit: obvious exaggeration but yeah) disadvantages, that you could be using. Banning Metaknight does not change this.

It forces you to play multiple characters or win uphill battles, rather than just maining MK and having easy street.

 

[rehab]

I know that there will be at least 3 really overused characters instead of 1 with Meta banned, that's accepted, and I said that earlier. My point is, and people do in fact bring this up, that low tier and a fair amount of mid tier do not suddenly become realistically viable with mk gone. MK didn't make low tier, he just guarantees it. If you get to use a character you like and like to play to win at this game consistently even without mk, you honestly got pretty lucky.

 

[WakerofWinds]

I know that there will be at least 3 really overused characters instead of 1 with Meta banned, that's accepted, and I said that earlier. My point is, and people do in fact bring this up, that low tier and a fair amount of mid tier do not suddenly become realistically viable with mk gone. MK didn't make low tier, he just guarantees it. If you get to use a character you like and like to play to win at this game consistently even without mk, you honestly got pretty lucky.

I think you're missing the point of why people want him banned.

 

[Ori_bro]

people need to learn to get around him but i really dont care if hes banned or not i play decent MK that dont spam (Rofa, Omniswell, Vayseth)

 

[salaboB]

people need to learn to get around him

You're insulting everyone who has spent months trying to do that by assuming they haven't.

 

[aeghrur]

What statistic should be valid for a ban? Above 50%? 66%? What?

 

[Adam_CUTIE]

no, just learn to fight him, *****

matchup charts arent right, and it IS possible to beat him a good percentage of the time. get better. :D

 

[Vyse]

Personally, I don't have a problem playing against MK's, so I voted no.
But if I was to vote again as a Tournament Director, not as an individual player, I'd vote yes.



Kinda wish I hadn't voted now : /