Shiek Vs Fox & Falco

[ANBU]

Sup Fellow Shieks. I have a slight problem with fighting fox's and falco's

Fox Problems -

. Uthrow to Uair

. Uthrow to Upsmash 2x or 3x

Falco Problems -

. Lazzer's OMFG

. Lazzer Aproach to the pillar


Im not a noob shiek i no to di when thrown but.... it just seems like you cant till about 50 - 80 iono.

Please help thanx

 

[darkatma]

PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. ALSO READ http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=95295

Thanks. Although it says melee discussion, it applys to the char specifics too, and I'm sure that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE. SEARCH FUNCTION


Kay.

edit: No hard feelings dude. It's just that there are way too many repeats, and the boards are far too cluttered with junk threads like this one

 

[Banksya]

lol darkatama thinks he's a mod

 

[Boolossus]

I honestly have almost no problems when I play Falcos with Sheik, Just match his lasers with your needles, or, jump over them... Sheik has plenty of hops and speed.

As for Fox... I have troubles playing Foxes with Sheik. Maybe try DIing to the left or right so you're not straight above him after he throws you.

 

[ANBU]

I honestly have almost no problems when I play Falcos with Sheik, Just match his lasers with your needles, or, jump over them... Sheik has plenty of hops and speed.

As for Fox... I have troubles playing Foxes with Sheik. Maybe try DIing to the left or right so you're not straight above him after he throws you.

thnx for tha tips ill try it out

 

[darkatma]

mmph sorry bout that -_- It was quite rude of me.

uthrow-uair: DI left or right for initial throw, DI other way upon impact
uthrow-usmash: do as Boolossus said, make it left or right - you should be able to jump out of the usmash

lasers: shield-wavedash/powershield
approach: avoid the lasers either using platformed stages and/or above mentioned tactic, nairing out of shield to get out of pillars.

And no i wasn't trying to play mod.. I was just miffed. So yea, my apologies.

 

[Lexaeus]

Sheik gets ***** by both. Here's what u can do:

Against both: Edgefag them at low %

Against Fox: DI upthrow, Smash DI uair

Against Falco: Use platforms to stay away from lasers, try not to get owned in pillar combos (try to tech if possible, DI away)

 

[GimpFinkle]

my personal "Break Glass Incase of Emergency Button" is (using sheik agaist course )

"Spam The Shield Grab"
"Shuffle fair + run"
"spike the combo freaks with needles and do a quick shuffle fair"

If it doesn't work just keep fighting the person(s) and learn there habits untill there predictable.

not the best advice i've given, but it's a start.

 

[Coen]

You play Sheik and you can't beat them. It's quite obvious the other player(s) is/are just better than you.

The solution to all: F-tilt.

 

[ANBU]

You play Sheik and you can't beat them. It's quite obvious the other player(s) is/are just better than you.

The solution to all: F-tilt.

LMAO....play me....like iv said b4 im not noob and my friend holds tourneys with dbr all the time u try playing against a fox or falco with shiek....and not newb ones and then say that

 

[Sick_ShEiK$$$]

my freind cant get me when i hard DI to the left or right
kind of mix it up
keep them guessing which way your going to DI
and
Tech Chain Grab!!!
if you dunno how to do it
grab->dthrow->wait till he makes a move...Tech,etc then grab again
its Really helpful
also Tilt's
and maybe Nair when they uthrow you
kind amake the impact not as bad
thats the best i got for you
im sure you no this stuff bro
but use it if you arnt
you should have fox in your hands with ease
i do

 

[Ares726]

"Spam The Shield Grab"

No. Absolutely not. If you try to sheild grab a space animal (if they aren't a noob) you'll get shine comboed for tons of damage.

Against Falco, powershield his lasers (this works when he cames or approaches). When he starts to pillar or shine combo you, he'll dair, shine, dair, shine, etc. All you have to do is wait for the shine then do a nair out of your shield. It works every time.

Also, NGCXX is completely right. Just f-tilt. It destroys the spacies

 

[Tope]

Against Fox, feel free to spam tilts, as ftilt will go through his nair, and utilt will beat his dair.

Falco is a bit harder as he can lock you down with lasers and dairs. Your uair and utilt will both trade with his dair, so at higher percents you can try it, and then tech his dair for a free follow up.

Grabbing and tech chasing is an excellent tool in these matchs.

 

[froz3ntear]

I like to connect a down smash with a down smash followed up by a tech chased down smash to a edge gaurd down smash

but thats just me.

 

[darkatma]

Oh yea, i've recently played a decent falco, and i'm wondering how to avoid the combos. I swear 80% of my damage is from one single huge combo with dairs shines utilts and uairs, along with the finishing bair.

I used to think i could easily tech out of the combo, but then apparently i fall into a stupor when i get comboed, so that i often miss the tech.

Oh also, technically shiek can get out of a shine-pillar combo by DIing the initial shine right? She should fly off left or right far enough to avoid a follow up aerial. So should i hold a direction while i'm shielding to DI the shine automatically?

 

[Ares726]

Darkatma, Falco's combos are harsh. Eighty damage is pretty standard for a good Falco too. It's pretty hard to come back from taking that much damage in a few seconds. There are a few things that you can do to get out of them.

First off, I know I say it all the time, but nair out of shield stops the combo before it even starts. It really is the best technique to use.

Secondly, you can tech the dair, but unless you roll tech, the Falco will shine you when he comes down. Also, if you miss a tech, you can't tech for another 20 or so frames. Therefore, if you keep trying to tech and you miss one, you won't be able to tech for a little while, so don't try. If you do try, you won't be able to, and you'll only continue your "no-tech" time.

Thirdly, DI is important, just keep DIing the same way. I normally DI towards the center of the stage, because if you DI towards the edge you might get dair spiked.

EDIT:
Falco's combos are difficult to get around sometimes.
That's why nair out of shield is so good.
It's broken!

 

[h1roshi]

i'd say the best thing anyone has mentioned is dthrow to techchase....this is probably one of the best....if not THE best ways to throw off the space animals....it helps you rack up damage pretty easily...and if they are being grabbed, or being techchased...that means they cant shoot you or shine you....which is a good thing...if your gonna spam tilts against fox....make sure you wavedash back first...or most of the time his drill or nair will come in too fast...if you really wanna make the best use of tilts...i suggest wavedashing back as he comes at you with an aerial and dtilting...works very well...obviously running away and then jumpin and doing reverse needles is always helpful..and if you do it right..there shouldnt be a real opening for th animal to ge to you...a tip that keepspeedn (dashizwiz's brother) gave me...was to shorthop back a little and then fast fall a slap...works very well against fox and falco too...or instead of a slap you can do a nair...lastly MINDGAMES...nothing to explain there...you just have to try your hardest to get the fox into a position where you can either tilt them, or grab them...if they are below 40%, and you see opening to hurt them...i suggest grabbing them instead of tilting to get more damage...once there higher then that...they are really gonna start feeling your tilts...oh..and jab a lot...its good...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Shmooguy]

I like to connect a down smash with a down smash followed up by a tech chased down smash to a edge gaurd down smash

but thats just me.

lol

actually that does work though. if a fox is waveshining you, try CC with both control and C stick, then downsmash out of it, then downsmash again, tech chase, usually they'll spot dodge or shine so space it and wait for it, then space yourself again at the edge to downsmash their recovery.

 

[Black Hayate]

mm... against falco, try not play in big stage (FD DL64) PS is fine i guess,
against fox, most stage is fine,
shiek get **** by both, but tech chase and edge guard is exteremally important in this match up

in about 70-80% you can dash attack to usmash if bad DI

 

[CmRoddy]

against these two, i try to get them off the edge as fast as possible. if i get them off by back throwing them when i'm close to the edge, i jump after them and Fair and it usually does the trick. i was once able to get about 50% damage by going back and forth with my dash attack since they fall so fast. of course there are ways to get out of that. i also try and tech chase as much as i can. i will also wavedash all over the place. but getting them off the edge early is deff my favorite thing to do.

 

[yoey]

okay im new to this site but not to smash bros. me and my bro have been playing almost constantly sence it came out and ofcours he chooses fox the laser is a punk
but i think i got just the moves dash attack as much as u can keep no distance sheiks
dash is way faster than his cs moves so just keep that up and u got him
as for falco his moves are alway air so just try and fight under him with slope arenas

u fil

 

[Banksya]

you have to be good with DI against both characters or you will get comboed very badly. very very badly.

 

[knightpraetor]

i guess i'm sorta surprised at how n00b i am..i always assumed that sheiks that naired me were getting it off because i was messing up the pillar...but now i guess taht it's always an option...i'm sorta in shock

most char don't have a move to counter pillaring though i think..and even with sheik you don't have many options right? just roll away, or this? or take the hit and DI out

 

[Hank McCoy]

okay im new to this site but not to smash bros. me and my bro have been playing almost constantly sence it came out and ofcours he chooses fox the laser is a punk
but i think i got just the moves dash attack as much as u can keep no distance sheiks
dash is way faster than his cs moves so just keep that up and u got him
as for falco his moves are alway air so just try and fight under him with slope arenas

u fil

sticky this post.

 

[ShackDaddy]

sheild grab isnt always good against falco b/c they will just l cancel into shines, attack from the air and use needles to get them close.

Fox should not be able to up smash u more than once. If u r at 0% and get thrown up, just neutral A b/c it comes out wuick enough to hit fox b4 he starts comboing u. Someitmes u want to DI up so u get out of his range and can jump away.

 

[h1roshi]

against falcos i just started standing in place and throwing needles...its fast enough to interupt their shl game...once they realize they can't stand back and shoot...they'll start to come in...ehich is when you try to grab or tilt them...peace

-hiroshi

 

[knightpraetor]

i thought you couldn't di up fox's throw...most throws aren't smash di able (except jigglys i think) so how would you di it up?

 

[Mcscruff]

grab, needles, dash attack, and down smash. all you have to do to beat a space animal.
Grab->downthrow->techchase->grab again or downsmash-> edgeguard.
Its that easy.

 

[robyextreme]

Fox Problems -

. Uthrow to Uair

DI behind the way their facing like so they're back is turned and tap left and right to regain control and stop spinning.

. Uthrow to Upsmash 2x or 3x

DI to a ledge if you can, shiek shouldn't get upsmashed more then twice..

Falco Problems -

. Lazzer's OMFG

Needles

. Lazzer Aproach to the pillar

Oh come on, theres a million things to do with that, just keep tilting.

 

[Skler]

Everybody has already said everything you need to know, but I have a quick little question. Does Shiek's fair when timed and spaced correctly hit through everything (in the air at least) the space animals have?

 

[Hank McCoy]

Everybody has already said everything you need to know, but I have a quick little question. Does Shiek's fair when timed and spaced correctly hit through everything (in the air at least) the space animals have?

thats very vague. a falco can come above you with dair and you couldn't beat that, if that's what you are wondering.

 

[G@BE]

does not perfect fox like own sheik though?

 

[tarheeljks]

so does Falco. The techchasing is obvious, but someone mentioned something about playing Falco on smaller stages-- that seems like the a great idea. Smaller stage means Falco is more likely to be knocked off which means he can be edgeguarded. The combination of Sheik's needles and Falco's weak recovery drastically improve Sheiks chances, but Falco still has the advantage.

 

[Dr. Steve Brule]

so does Falco. The techchasing is obvious, but someone mentioned something about playing Falco on smaller stages-- that seems like the a great idea. Smaller stage means Falco is more likely to be knocked off which means he can be edgeguarded. The combination of Sheik's needles and Falco's weak recovery drastically improve Sheiks chances, but Falco still has the advantage.

smaller stages means platforms. which help falco and fox continue combos. even though it helps you, it helps them just as much. and the size of stage doesnt matter with shieks edgeguarding. you can kill falco/fox equally well on dl64 as you can on ys.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Playing Falco on small stages is horrible personally. I'd much rather play him on DL or BF than YS.

 

[BigRick]

- upsmash techchase is very sexy (KDJ = too good?)
- aerials out of shield is a life saver
- gimp KOs FTW

 

[Dr. Steve Brule]

- upsmash techchase is very sexy (KDJ = too good?)

honestly, i dont think there is anything sexier than a shiek (particularly kdj's) standing in a place charging usmash knowing the stupid gay *** space animal will just roll right into and then gimp their **** with a fair after.

 

[tarheeljks]

@DrSteve: good point, forgot about the platform bit. Falco is nasty on platforms but I still think that it's preferrable for Sheik. Needles could be used to stop SHL, but Sheik can't needle as fast as Falco can laser. Against Falco, Sheik's needles are best against edgeguarding.
Also, someone said that nair out of shield stops pillaring-- that seems unlikely. When would you do the nair? You'll either get hit by the dair or get hit by the shine when you drop your shield. It's possible if the Falco is starting the dairs too early.

edit: what's w/the animosity towards space animals, mad b/c they punk Sheik?