Sheik Matchup Discussion: Kirby

[Judo777]

I think once you realize how long his moves last it's just a matter of getting the timing down. Once you do that you can start to fit hyphen smashes/dacuses in there As far as killing goes, this is one of those matches where both us are going to live pretty long if you play gay enough. Kirby's Bair is strong but you can DI it an incredible amount. In general most of Kirby's move kill horizontally, so it makes it easier to anticipate DI.

I guess since this is a Sheik only board transforming is banned, but if you have a fair % lead why not do it? I don't think Kirby has too many safe options in that scenario.

No its fine to list zelda as an option. Unlike other characters we are never stranded with just sheik for a game so if say they cp u as kirby and zelda is the answer go ahead and mention it. Although u probably shouldnt avoid too much info on zelda thats for the zelda boards but if its a decent idea let us know.

 

[riocosta123]

Kewkky, do you really think transforming is a bad idea if Kirby is at like 110 and I'm at like 80-90? It seems like it'd be easy to wait him out/camp the **** out of him.

 

[Kewkky]

Kewkky, do you really think transforming is a bad idea if Kirby is at like 110 and I'm at like 80-90? It seems like it'd be easy to wait him out/camp the **** out of him.

Yeah. Only thing you can reliably kill us with is usmash, and just knowing that, we'll avoid it and be grabbing you all the time. Fair and bair can be seen coming since she's a very floaty character and we're small, fsmash can be SDI'd simply by holding up (I do it ALL the time, never miss doing it), her grab is the slowest non-tether so we have a buttload of time to jab her out of the startup (or anything else, actually), her projectile leaves Zelda vulnerable to anything once we get past the projectile or stay in mid-range, her recovery's very easy to gimp... I see Zelda having way too many con's, and is more of a way to kill your opponent if they're only doing aerial approaches (we can't shield in the air, so jump-cancelled OoS/hyphen usmashes will kill us if we're approaching from the air). You'd be safer as Sheik. Just keep punishing us and racking our damage up, before you know it you'll have killed us by just doing your normal gameplay.

 

[choknater]

this matchup....... just needle a lot and u will win

dont mess with kirby too much on the ground, esp when he can randomly fsmash and beat all ur moves

jabs are good though

 

[Judo777]

this matchup....... just needle a lot and u will win

dont mess with kirby too much on the ground, esp when he can randomly fsmash and beat all ur moves

jabs are good though

Needling a kirby that knows what hes doing isnt very easy hes got 5 jumps u cant auto punish landings everytime cause u dont know when hes gonna land.

 

[choknater]

well i run around and throw them when i think he will land

at least it forces him to stay in the air if he doesnt land, and i can continue charging more or uair him if he is 2 close

this matchup is hard, i go peach if i have trouble but usually i just needle camp and it works really well

 

[<π]

hi.

If kirby is above you can beat him with uair and bair, but if he is infront of you... rarely do you want to bother. like tutu said dash attack is amazing. Stay out of his attack range and punish any spacers including bair and utilt with dash attack or needles.

Dashing into aerial Kirbies with shield is another good way to approach it can bait poorly spaced bairs that will lead to sheild grabs and if they don't work kirby is slow enough so you can roll away after judging the spacing.

The reason people have issues with this match up is because they try to beat kirby in situations you can't. You don't need to combo to win. Falco can't chain grab half the cast, and he can't combo anything but his hit and run, bait and punish play style get him damage in all of his match ups. Patients leads to kills

If you know you can't win in a situation why let yourself fall into it? Sheik is significantly faster than kirby that means he is playing the game at your speed even if he our ranges you. take advantage of that. I don't think the match is hugely in kirby's favor. We should beat him for the same reason everyone beats zelda because you don't have to approach and he does.

All that said it is hard to recover against kirby just because of his unique long lasting areials and mufti jumps. try and recover so chain is an option if he attacks you chain through it. if he goes for the edge upB tricks. chain recovery and being paitient is very very importany in recovering for this match and most multi jump characters.

Jigglypuff.

EDIT:
You can combo kirby I was doing it to chu in teams for two hours yesterday. Just gotta know your character

 

[PK-ow!]

Sheik seems to have been designed to punish characters for not being Kirby.

That's how this matchup looks to me.

That said, sometimes as Zelda I transform in this matchup. Doesn't make things strictly better or worse; it's just good to force the other player to be conscious.
... so then, of course the reverse of that means Sheik can sometimes gain something from down-B.
I'll edit this up with more content; I was interrupted just now.

 

[Judo777]

hi.

If kirby is above you can beat him with uair and bair, but if he is infront of you... rarely do you want to bother. like tutu said dash attack is amazing. Stay out of his attack range and punish any spacers including bair and utilt with dash attack or needles.

Dashing into aerial Kirbies with shield is another good way to approach it can bait poorly spaced bairs that will lead to sheild grabs and if they don't work kirby is slow enough so you can roll away after judging the spacing.

The reason people have issues with this match up is because they try to beat kirby in situations you can't. You don't need to combo to win. Falco can't chain grab half the cast, and he can't combo anything but his hit and run, bait and punish play style get him damage in all of his match ups. Patients leads to kills

If you know you can't win in a situation why let yourself fall into it? Sheik is significantly faster than kirby that means he is playing the game at your speed even if he our ranges you. take advantage of that. I don't think the match is hugely in kirby's favor. We should beat him for the same reason everyone beats zelda because you don't have to approach and he does.

All that said it is hard to recover against kirby just because of his unique long lasting areials and mufti jumps. try and recover so chain is an option if he attacks you chain through it. if he goes for the edge upB tricks. chain recovery and being paitient is very very importany in recovering for this match and most multi jump characters.

Jigglypuff.

EDIT:
You can combo kirby I was doing it to chu in teams for two hours yesterday. Just gotta know your character

Man i want to believe the MU isn't that bad but i jjst find it sooo hard maybe im just really bad at running away lol. Thnx btw for the input i have a question tho.

Kirby seems to be able to jump at u and either bair or if u airdodge freaking hammer u how do u avoid this situation? This is ofc in situations where u have been knocked really high.

 

[<π]

yeah kirby is so~ hard to beat if you actually fight him, all of his stuff is safe on shield and we have no answer to bair bar needles. if you try and force your way in you'll be very disappointed. AT least that's how I feel.

In that situation where you have no real options remember this.

you move faster than him in the air.
You can always recover to the edge.
And worst possible case use upB in a way so that you can only be punished be a weaker attack.
Jump and recover high to a plat (again using upB crazy early if need be)
or fastfall underneath and use upB invul to avoid any possible hit even while in kirby's range.

if kirby is off stage trying to hit you he, for the most part, can't punish your lag from vanish because his aerial movement speed is so bad. (this is the case with most of the cast, but especially Kirby).

If you are in a situation where you are way off stage you can't jump or already have and your recovery options are very very linear then just take the bair and DI it well Bair helps you recover if you DI it correctly especially since it will prob be decayed in the first place.

 

[Judo777]

yeah kirby is so~ hard to beat if you actually fight him, all of his stuff is safe on shield and we have no answer to bair bar needles. if you try and force your way in you'll be very disappointed. AT least that's how I feel.

In that situation where you have no real options remember this.

you move faster than him in the air.
You can always recover to the edge.
And worst possible case use upB in a way so that you can only be punished be a weaker attack.
Jump and recover high to a plat (again using upB crazy early if need be)
or fastfall underneath and use upB invul to avoid any possible hit even while in kirby's range.

if kirby is off stage trying to hit you he, for the most part, can't punish your lag from vanish because his aerial movement speed is so bad. (this is the case with most of the cast, but especially Kirby).

If you are in a situation where you are way off stage you can't jump or already have and your recovery options are very very linear then just take the bair and DI it well Bair helps you recover if you DI it correctly especially since it will prob be decayed in the first place.

Ok sounds good so ur saying essentially to recover smarter with vanish or avoid him all together which ironically enough is something i have been working on cause im very tether relient.

 

[riocosta123]

Yeah, contary to popular belief you can live for a loooong time against Kirby because all of his kill moves you can DI up with the exception of sweetspot Usmash (and really you shouldn't be getting hit by that) and Fsmash (a little bit harder to avoid but not impossible).

Just be a gay little ***** and you'll be fine. It's not like his approaching options are that great either.

 

[<π]

Ok sounds good so ur saying essentially to recover smarter with vanish or avoid him all together which ironically enough is something i have been working on cause im very tether relient.

tether is amazing while recovering you should always have it in mind obviously. but often times getting in range for it isn't possible for what ever reason or people will cover that option with a ledge grab.

What I do is think of the chain as a secondary option. if it is available 100% I'll go for it, but forcing it can lead to very easily avoidable deaths.

 

[Judo777]

tether is amazing while recovering you should always have it in mind obviously. but often times getting in range for it isn't possible for what ever reason or people will cover that option with a ledge grab.

What I do is think of the chain as a secondary option. if it is available 100% I'll go for it, but forcing it can lead to very easily avoidable deaths.

Well it's not that i get forced into using tether then die cause i chain offstage that never happens its just if u shut it down im not near as good at recovering which is probably true for sheik in general but its something i need to learn.

 

[<π]

yeah... when people grab the edge use vanish to force them off. time it so the explosion happens after their invul is gone. if the are below 100 generally their get up animation is fast enough so that you can grab the edge after the explosion. that saves you from so much punishment.
above 100 generally they get up so slow they can only really punish you with something that won't out right kill you especially if you use plats or lag-less landing stuffs.

stalling is also huge. if you have your second jump you should always at least land on stage. sheik's second jump is huge so you can literally wait out just about every character in the game and make them go back to the edge (and them force them off), or expose a weakness, or use invul in vanish to recover past them.

this doesn't really work with Kirby just because of the nature of his down air but its really important to understand these concepts.

 

[Judo777]

yeah... when people grab the edge use vanish to force them off. time it so the explosion happens after their invul is gone. if the are below 100 generally their get up animation is fast enough so that you can grab the edge after the explosion. that saves you from so much punishment.
above 100 generally they get up so slow they can only really punish you with something that won't out right kill you especially if you use plats or lag-less landing stuffs.

stalling is also huge. if you have your second jump you should always at least land on stage. sheik's second jump is huge so you can literally wait out just about every character in the game and make them go back to the edge (and them force them off), or expose a weakness, or use invul in vanish to recover past them.

this doesn't really work with Kirby just because of the nature of his down air but its really important to understand these concepts.

yea yea i get what ur saying and if i am close enough to hit them with vanishes explosion then i never have trouble recovering cause i have many options its once im too far to threaten them with the explosion that it becomes tricky to recover. If i am only hit so far that i can make it back to the stage then im always ok.

 

[-Mars-]

3 gives out super good advice.