Sheik For High Tier!!!!

[Rawnie]

Sheik:
so fast so nimble so AMAZING!

#26? she almost in the low tier! WTF?

ok she isnt great as she was in melee but she is still good! she has lost her chain grabs but still.

She can combo well:
Ftilt lock
Jab cancel

Great edge guarder
Quick projectile
Tether

i Know that she lacks knockout moves but so do lucario, r.o.b and diddy but they are in the top and high tiers

It doesnt make any sense?


Is it just me? does anyone else feel this way?

Could someone please explain why she is #26 on the tier list?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Yes but rob and diddy still have better killing options than sheik. Whereas sheik only has usmash which is not reliable. Still there's always gimping and zelda. Besides who cares if she's low tier we know she's good.

 

[Tristan_win]

Although the OP isn't very good in explaining why sheik is high tier I do think she will be one day or at least be near the top of mid tier one day and if I stop thinking that I'll hop on either the diddy, marth or maybe the meta knight wagon.

Right now there's a lot of characters who are above sheik whom really aren't going anywhere in development(Ike, IKKKKKKE) meanwhile they hold many natural disadvantages while for sheik although we have more or less discover most there is to her no one has yet to use everything or even really bring it's to it's limits meanwhile sheik only has four weakness.

1. Can't kill worth ****
2. Has a horrible downward air game
3. Has only decent range on most of her attacks
4. Has only decent priority

Killing can be for the most part fix with dacus or saving your kill moves like your dsmash or nair until it can kill or if you like learning how to be good with the paper tank Zelda. Which does a great job making up for killing completely changes everything about you playing.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I agree. Sheik is not the 26th best character. She definitely deserves to move up several slots, maybe not quite to High Tier but close. Zelda/Sheik combined would be High Tier material to me though. But I'm kind of glad that she's not a Top Tier character anymore since now Zelda gets more more appreciation.

 

[SinkingHigher]

The tierlist ignores downB.

With the combination of the two, Zeik is beast.

 

[demodemo]

sheik worse than ike? bowser? bleh

 

[Z1GMA]

Don't forget that recovery abilities too are calculatet into the tierlist..

 

[demodemo]

sheik's recovery is better than zeldas, better than bowsers, better than ikes..

she has a lot more options with her recovery. she can vanish, tether, or walljump or whatever. sheik's recovery itself also has a love of flexibility, since the vanish can go in like 16 directions.

her offstage game is generally superior to everyone else

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

sheik's recovery is better than zeldas, better than bowsers, better than ikes..

she has a lot more options with her recovery. she can vanish, tether, or walljump or whatever. sheik's recovery itself also has a love of flexibility, since the vanish can go in like 16 directions.

her offstage game is generally superior to everyone else

Then you realise when your opponent gets to the ledge 1st and ur too far out she can't knock people off the ledge . But really i've seen good shiek players and i do a decent job at the tilt *****, Shiek/Zelda combination deserves a lil more appreciations.

BTW bowser's recover is amazing out of shield for attacking, shieks isn't, Zeldas can be used to mind games and has long range... and Ike ...his sucks wahaha.

 

[Zankoku]

Using recovery for mindgames.

Right.

I can feel the average intelligence level of this board slipping.

 

[momochuu]

*Looks at join date*

Right...

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Using recovery for mindgames.

Right.

I can feel the average intelligence level of this board slipping.

A: Go back to melty blood
B: My ciel ***** your ciel
C: I <3 u
D: I like men

Btw i've seen it done and it isn't something that should be spammed or used more then once. Great to see the supposed master minds of our community are so open.

And @ Kawaii... if that's directed at me i've been around since about 06, it's just that i lost my other account and the email attached to it. I believe it was named RdleyX or something close. Regardless dont flame based on join date .

 

[Zankoku]

A. Too technical.
B. I don't play Ciel.

I don't even know what kind of "mindgames" you're trying to pull here, but clearly it involves talking about Zelda, her recovery, and MINDGAMES. Like, it's amazing.... you press up on the control stick and press B, and... MINDGAMES!!

Yeah.

Recovering is all about the mindgames right? Are you going to recover toward the stage? No, no, you're going to up+B away and kill yourself. MINDGAMES.

 

[-Mars-]

sheik's recovery is better than zeldas, better than bowsers, better than ikes..

she has a lot more options with her recovery. she can vanish, tether, or walljump or whatever. sheik's recovery itself also has a love of flexibility, since the vanish can go in like 16 directions.

her offstage game is generally superior to everyone else

Sheiks recovery isn't that great. All your opponent has to do is grab the edge and you no longer have the chain tether. They force you to use vanish, you land on the stage, and they get a free hit.

Zelda's Farore Wind can also go in 16 directions, she can love jump, and she can stall edge hoggers with Naryus. Not to mention that her recovery move has greater distance and it attacks upon reappearance.

Their recoveries are about even. They're not horrible, but they're not great either.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

A. Too technical.
B. I don't play Ciel.

I don't even know what kind of "mindgames" you're trying to pull here, but clearly it involves talking about Zelda, her recovery, and MINDGAMES. Like, it's amazing.... you press up on the control stick and press B, and... MINDGAMES!!

Yeah.

Recovering is all about the mindgames right? Are you going to recover toward the stage? No, no, you're going to up+B away and kill yourself. MINDGAMES.

Yes cus melty blood it technical >.>

I've seen zelda use her Up-B to ... oh nevermind why even bother it's the shiek forums.

 

[Zankoku]

Mashy Blood takes too much effort.

If you end that sentence with anything other than "to recover," then you're talking about something other than recovery. I realize now I should've gotten on your case about Bowser "recovering" out of his shield, as well.

And I completely understand. You should visit the Fox boards, where your amazing level of intellect will be the norm.

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

Recovering is all about the mindgames right? Are you going to recover toward the stage? No, no, you're going to up+B away and kill yourself. MINDGAMES.

A: That is an awesome Icon, and I don't know who it is, but it is really pretty. !!!

B: I think they meant that you can use her Up+B (often called recovery move) on the stage to reapear where your opponent isn't expecting. (although it has lag)

C: I fully understand that this has nothing to do with her recovery, just wanted to say where I think the confusion is coming in between you guys. (One talking about compairing recovery-->recovery, the other about compairing Up+B-->Up+B)


(edit: I see Ankoku fully understood what you meant, but you perhaps didn't understand him)

 

[East]

hm... vanish away from the ledge to death.... You're on to something there Ankoku. I see your angle: Kill myself to make them think I've given up on life, so when I return with another stock, they'll be shocked.

MINDGAMES!

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Mashy Blood takes too much effort.

If you end that sentence with anything other than "to recover," then you're talking about something other than recovery. I realize now I should've gotten on your case about Bowser "recovering" out of his shield, as well.

And I completely understand. You should visit the Fox boards, where your amazing level of intellect will be the norm.

Meh, ankoku is being a flamer atm... And lemme know what's wrong with Up-B'n with bowser out of shield. Or was it becuase i called it a recovery from a shield and not simply U-B?

 

[-Mars-]

Mashy Blood takes too much effort.

If you end that sentence with anything other than "to recover," then you're talking about something other than recovery. I realize now I should've gotten on your case about Bowser "recovering" out of his shield, as well.

And I completely understand. You should visit the Fox boards, where your amazing level of intellect will be the norm.

Hmmm, seems the Sheik boards aren't much better.

 

[Wildfire393]

Reasons why Sheik is NOT high tier material:
1) Kill power is very bad. Discounting the Upsmash Tipper (Which is very difficult to pull off), Sheik kills at average around 150%. "Average" kill power is in the 100-120% range, which includes characters like Diddy, ROB, and Lucario, which were cited as having "similar" kill power.
2) Despite having one of the most viable non-chainthrow true combo in the game, it is only viable against certain opponents. Against many opponents, the Ftilt only guarantees 2 hits and MAYBE a Utilt.
3) Due to Sheik's fastfalling, she is vulnerable to most Chainthrows anc combos in the game. Combine this with a below-average weight and a non-godly recovery, and Sheik's lifespan is limited.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Reasons why Sheik is NOT high tier material:
1) Kill power is very bad. Discounting the Upsmash Tipper (Which is very difficult to pull off), Sheik kills at average around 150%. "Average" kill power is in the 100-120% range, which includes characters like Diddy, ROB, and Lucario, which were cited as having "similar" kill power.
2) Despite having one of the most viable non-chainthrow true combo in the game, it is only viable against certain opponents. Against many opponents, the Ftilt only guarantees 2 hits and MAYBE a Utilt.
3) Due to Sheik's fastfalling, she is vulnerable to most Chainthrows anc combos in the game. Combine this with a below-average weight and a non-godly recovery, and Sheik's lifespan is limited.

1) that's why most people switch to zelda to kill.
2)There are many things that 2 guaranteed f tilts can possibly lead into.
3) Most Chain grabs like falcos work on most the cast regardless of fall speed so why does this matter?

 

[Wildfire393]

1) that's why most people switch to zelda to kill.
2)There are many things that 2 guaranteed f tilts can possibly lead into.
3) Most Chain grabs like falcos work on most the cast regardless of fall speed so why does this matter?

1) If by most you mean some, then yes. However, this is not necessarily a perfect strategy - Zelda's easiest-to-hit KO moves can be DI'd out of before the KOing hit. Transforming to Zelda requires giving up an edgeguard attempt. Zelda has some vulnerabilities that Sheik does not. Etc.
2) The two Ftilts may be guaranteed, the follow-up is not necessarily. It's highly character dependant.
3) Falco's chaingrab works on most of the cast. But things like Kirby's Fthrow-Uair chaingrab, Pikachu's Dthrow Chaingrab, Olimar's chaingrabs, possibly several other chaingrabs I'm forgetting, and most repeating Utilt combos (and some similar things) affect only a small subset of characters, of which Sheik is one.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

1) If by most you mean some, then yes. However, this is not necessarily a perfect strategy - Zelda's easiest-to-hit KO moves can be DI'd out of before the KOing hit. Transforming to Zelda requires giving up an edgeguard attempt. Zelda has some vulnerabilities that Sheik does not. Etc.
2) The two Ftilts may be guaranteed, the follow-up is not necessarily. It's highly character dependant.
3) Falco's chaingrab works on most of the cast. But things like Kirby's Fthrow-Uair chaingrab, Pikachu's Dthrow Chaingrab, Olimar's chaingrabs, possibly several other chaingrabs I'm forgetting, and most repeating Utilt combos (and some similar things) affect only a small subset of characters, of which Sheik is one.

1) true.
2)It's like that with most of brawls cast.
3) Sucks to be a sheik main.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

But don't forget that the Tier List also evaluates Sheik individually. So switching to Zelda to K.O. cannot be used in an argument for her higher placing, as Sheik's own weaknesses must be taken into account. But the Tier List is already pretty inaccurate as it is, and Sheik/Zelda will always be highly rated in my mind.

 

[D1RE]

The Tier list is bull and Sheik/Zelda have like 2, 3? bad matchups and none unwinable if I recall right. So in my oppinion Sheik/Zelda deserve a separate evaluation so the Tier list would look somewhate like this:
1. MK (duh)
2. Snake
3. xx
At a random point no to far down
x. Sheik/Zelda
Further down
x. Zelda
Maybe slightly further down
x. Sheik


Sheik might be above Zelda, or might not, I'm not gonna discuss that. Point being that Sheik/Zelda deserve a separate evaluation since using both of them effectively remove one of Sheiks major weaknesses, allows for in-game counterpicking which again counter counterpicking (CP IC vs. Sheik).

 

[The Great Leon]

sheik sucks
brawl sucks
play melee

 

[Conclusively]

Sheik will never be high tier in Brawl without anything new and gamebreaking. If you want Sheik to be high, go back to Melee. She will be High-Mid at best.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Sheik will never be high tier in Brawl without anything new and gamebreaking. If you want Sheik to be high, go back to Melee. She will be High-Mid at best.

*cough* down+B *cough*

it's the best move in sheik's repetior... it's the best move in zelda's repetoir.

neither one could be high teir alone, but together, they rock!

 

[Kinzer]

Right now there's a lot of characters who are above sheik whom really aren't going anywhere in development(Ike, IKKKKKKE).

We do get things done, mind you...

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

*cough* down+B *cough*

it's the best move in sheik's repetior... it's the best move in zelda's repetoir.

neither one could be high teir alone, but together, they rock!

Actually Down-B is shieks best move and Zeldas worse move. Nah, i'm only kidding but switching between both characters have Pros/Cons that can be debated over. What we really need is another character thread for shiek+zelda.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Actually Down-B is shieks best move and Zeldas worse move. Nah, i'm only kidding but switching between both characters have Pros/Cons that can be debated over. What we really need is another character thread for shiek+zelda.

I came from being a straight zelda main. trust me:

Zelda/Sheik>>>>>Zelda>sheik

 

[-Mars-]

I came from being a straight zelda main. trust me:

Zelda/Sheik>>>>>Zelda>sheik

I'd actually argue with you that Sheik is a better character since she can actually deal somewhat with camping.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'd actually argue with you that Sheik is a better character since she can actually deal somewhat with camping.

I dunno. Zelda doesn't have as many "****" matchups as sheik... but it seems that, when sheik gets beaten... BOY does sheik get beaten. Zelda doesn't have as many bad matchups in my experience.

though I'd never dream of any good reason to separate the two.

 

[shock505]

Shiek's recovery can be gimped pretty easily, besides chain but a shiek is basicly dead if the opponent edge guards the chain and it miss's. Plus yeah lacks kill moves
I do believe she should be raised higher up on medium though.

 

[Zankoku]

The only matchups I hate a lot are G&W (because it's harder than just going Marth and winning for free), Meta Knight (because it's boring), and Ice Climbers. I'm beginning to use Zelda less and less as I dislike the idea of willingly giving up an advantageous position as well as my usual rushdown capability just for the possibility of KOing 50-80% earlier.

That said, who cares? Tier lists are fun to look at, but stupid to argue about.

 

[-Mars-]

The only matchups I hate a lot are G&W (because it's harder than just going Marth and winning for free), Meta Knight (because it's boring), and Ice Climbers. I'm beginning to use Zelda less and less as I dislike the idea of willingly giving up an advantageous position as well as my usual rushdown capability just for the possibility of KOing 50-80% earlier.

That said, who cares? Tier lists are fun to look at, but stupid to argue about.

We might as well discuss something.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm beginning to use Zelda less and less as I dislike the idea of willingly giving up an advantageous position as well as my usual rushdown capability just for the possibility of KOing 50-80% earlier.

That said, who cares? Tier lists are fun to look at, but stupid to argue about.

well you obviously don't like the way zelda plays you know. Iunno if you just don't want to put the time into her or if she's just not your playstyle, but if Zelda doesn't fit your playstyle, then, yeah, switching to zelda will probably not be a good move for you. Even if you would really get zelda down to a science, she'd never play as fast and loose as sheik does.

*shrugs*
only forseeable benifit to moving up the teir list would be that we'd get more attention and a quicker metagame development. just don't let her get too high or we'll all feel like sell outs for using them

I keed. Zelda's my ***** through thick and thin.

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

Zelda's my ***** through thick and thin.

agreed.

haha, I know its a very silly thing, but I feel loyal to Zelda.


: P I should use sheik more in certain matchups,
but I feel I should learn them really well as Zelda first.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

What's this about Lucario not killing? Have you ever been shot with a Fsmash to the face when Lucario in question is near 100%? It kills pretty easily.... one just has to manage his aura.

And yes, Ziek is an amazing character. You rack up insane damage and then switch to something with 9+ killing moves that are all fresh. Although more and more often, I don't even need zelda. Shiek's optional tether recovery, vanish and vanish glide, quick fair, overall speed, and sex kicks make her an extraordinary gimper. It's so fun to gimp ^_^. Shiek alone should be a bit higher tier, imo. She'll probably advance as time goes on.