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Sheik Defensive Form

Zankoku

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Just some notes... only for when you're on the defense, obviously. I'll cover offensive form some other time if I feel like it.

EDIT: btw I just typed this **** up 'cause I was bored, lol.

FAR RANGE:

Needle Throw
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Uhh decent I guess, most obvious choice, but it's at a range where most people can just shield it on reaction. Kinda good to disrupt zoning.

Needle Storm
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Does decent damage but other than that it's just like Needle Throw.

Needle Charge
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Makes people start approaching you usually.

Summary
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Not much you can do from way far away, you probably want to just do stuff with needles until he decides to approach.

MEDIUM RANGE:

Needle Throw
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Hilariously unsafe. They can shield it and dash attack you probably.

Needle Storm
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A little safer, you can get your shield up against most attacks. Still a waste if you know they're going to shield it.

SH Forward Air
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Kinda fast zoning tool, not much else.

SH Neutral Air
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I don't know why you would do this except against like, Olimar or something.

SH Back Air
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It's like Wolf's standard zoning tool pretty much. I don't really like it but you might.

Roll Toward
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Kinda stupid, a lot of newbies think this is a good approach. It isn't.

Roll Away
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Resets the position a little bit, but bound to get you cornered if you keep doing this.

Summary
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Probably not a good idea to charge needles any more and to start psyching them into attacking or going away with some SH aerials. Needle Storm does its full 18% damage at this range instead of decaying due to long distance, but that's only good if you can throw them without the other guy shielding it all.

CLOSE RANGE:

Needle Anything
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What are you doing?

Spotdodge
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Sheik's spotdodge is good, but not great. If you successfully bait and dodge an attack you can probably punish with any attack except uair, dair, fsmash, and usmash. Don't abuse it.

Down Smash
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Obviously. Sheik's most reliable and straightforward way of saying GTFO. Probably the most versatile option, including out of spotdodge. Again, don't abuse it.

Forward Tilt
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Beats a couple of things, clashes a couple other things, generally pretty good unless they're coming at you with a disjointed aerial (like Marth). If it gets shielded start jabbing to prevent shieldgrab.

Up Tilt
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Beats out a lot of aerials. Not very good at dealing with people approaching right in front of you. One of the funniest things to do to people who are right next to you, especially at low %s when ftilt wouldn't actually lock.

Down Tilt
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More range than ftilt I guess... kinda slowish though. Crouching ducks under a lot of good things like grabs, Snake's ftilt and jabs, etc. You can punish those things whiffing with a dtilt.

Forward Smash
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Pretty much only good if they're in the silly habit of running at you into a spotdodge. Like, who the hell does that? lol. Much better as an offensive spotdodge punisher but even then fsmash doesn't really redeem itself as a good move. Don't even consider it as a defensive option unless your opponent does stupid things that shouldn't work.

Up Smash
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Not as stupidly good priority as utilt but still hits through things. Hurts like hell if it DOES land, though.

SH Neutral Air
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REALLY GOOD out of shield. Works like an alternate form of dsmash really.

SH Down Air
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Do this and then taunt because if they shield it you're going to be punished anyway.

Roll Behind
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Works a lot against bad people, gets you destroyed against good people.

Roll Away
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Risky reset method, just like at mid range. You're probably better off just running or jumping away at this range.

Summary
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Haha, lots of options. They're all generally not that great compared to Snake, though. This is usually the point where you'd switch from defense to offense.
 

Tristan_win

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I like how you completely didn't mention the chain at all or the vanish Ankoku.

edit:I'm not saying they are really great defensive options or anything I'm just pointing things out ^^'
 

Villi

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ftilt has more range than anything that's not your chain or needles. Up tilt and double jab have more range than dtilt... dtilt has more range than dsmash, though.

PS I lurve SH chain. You'd be surprised how often people will just not back down as they unwittingly sustain 70% damage.
 

-Mars-

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I think utilt is really underrated. Unless your facing those stupid disjointed hitboxes..............it's going to stop a lot of approaches. It's a pretty good get off me move as well and the trajectory sets up nice for some follow ups in the mid percents.
 

Squidster

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Short hop chain is godsent vs some.

Luigi for example, is a pain to deal with as he approaches with his short hop double areal -> Jab and theres nothing you can do to outprioritize him as he tosses out his foot.

Except chain. He can either jump over you or throw fireballs. Or just wait it out. Its kind of awesome.
 

demodemo

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yeah, utilt is my favourite defensive move, it is really the "all purpose" move in sheik's arsenal. good range (hits forward and up) good knockback, comes out fast, good trajectory for sheiks aerials, etc.

it also hits a little bit behind sheik. how much more awesome can this move get?!

edit- to my knowledge i dont think sheik's crouch can save you from snake's ftilt. and if you are too close to snake while crouched, you can still get grabbed, i just tested this.

I only have two hands though, i wasnt able to see if dtilt out reaches snakes grab range. if not, it is still a good move to do against snake since snake cannot do his jab>ftilt combo. and yes, no matter how close you are to snake, his jabs goes right over sheik, and this includes all 3 hits (the second punch and the kick)
 

Zankoku

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utilt is indeed good.

Chain is silly and I knew I was forgetting something but since I wrote this whole thing up during lecture I didn't really care lol.

I just wanted something to do.
 

Tristan_win

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yeah, utilt is my favourite defensive move, it is really the "all purpose" move in sheik's arsenal. good range (hits forward and up) good knockback, comes out fast, good trajectory for sheiks aerials, etc.

it also hits a little bit behind sheik. how much more awesome can this move get?!

edit- to my knowledge i dont think sheik's crouch can save you from snake's ftilt. and if you are too close to snake while crouched, you can still get grabbed, i just tested this.

I only have two hands though, i wasnt able to see if dtilt out reaches snakes grab range. if not, it is still a good move to do against snake since snake cannot do his jab>ftilt combo. and yes, no matter how close you are to snake, his jabs goes right over sheik, and this includes all 3 hits (the second punch and the kick)
I've also done some testing with the dtilt against Snakes AAA combo some very brief testing before this thread was made...

Basically snake first punch will for the most part miss sheik but at times it will in fact hit her. I guess when sheik faintly moves in her crouch state her hurtboxs grows just enough that a Snake punch can in fact hit you but something as small as that doesn't mean you shouldn't abuse this new weakness of Snakes.

Anyways I'm extremely curious about what Squidster said as I thought that Luigi fireballs would naturally out range the chain if that's not the case and to keep Luigi out of range doesn't require constant sweet spotting then this could mean a change in numbers in the Luigi fight....which up till now was a very strong sheik counter without Zelda.
 

Blistering Speed

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Down Smash
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Obviously. Sheik's most reliable and straightforward way of saying GTFO. Probably the most versatile option, including out of spotdodge. Again, don't abuse it.
Tsk, what would Drephen say if he were here?

But I agree:
a) U Tilt is all purpose shizzle
b) SH Nair OOS is the shizzle

Vanish is also epic mindgames, especially if you nudge the other player John Cena style and say 'You can't see ME!'
 

demodemo

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sup bishes, just posting to let you know that it is possible to attack snake with dtilt while out of his grab range

edit- that leaves snake with his utilt and his ftilt. i dontt hink he has ANY other close range options... lawl
 

Rawr_

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Vanish OOS is really entertaining, and some pretty epic mindgames... some opponents are just so baffled by that bubble they were fighting turning into an explosion that an attack that shouldn't really hit (vanish starting lag vs the 2 frames or w/e it takes to shield) works. I'm not sure if you get invincibility frames for it, like Samus does. It'd be awesome if someone could test this out *pokes ankoku*
 

demodemo

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invincibility frames? most definitely, seeing as how vanish has invincibility during the first couple of frames if done
anywhere
 

Zankoku

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You're invulnerable from frames 23-54, which would mean a little less than half a second after you start it.
 

Rawr_

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So does that mean it's a good option OOS? Having to wait 23 frames for invulnerable seems a little shaky, but half a second is pretty quick to punish a move OOS...
 

demodemo

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to be frank, no

no not because it doesn't work, but because there are better oos options. for example there is downsmash, which does not punishable like vanish. vanish also forces you to teleport away from your opponent, which is bad. dsmash also comes out on like frame 4(?) and has pretty solid knockback

Oos vanish can be still used as a surprise for a heavy cooldown move though

edit: and it can kill.
 

demodemo

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if i am not mistakened that only works if you are in the air, but i have been wrong 2194021x times, so i believe you

however, it is suggested when using vanish offesively you have to vanish away to minimize your chances of being punished
 

Rawr_

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i'm not talking about using it offensively, i'm talking about using it OOS for a surprise kill; seems like you'd want to vanish in place to minimize the chance of stoppering them, and the wind should cover you from most punishing attempts in case you miss. and yes you can vanish in place, try it on any hard platform ("soft" ground like BF's platforms you'll go right through but if you use it on the ground just hold down)
 

Zankoku

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Most attacks have a cooldown time less than 30 frames, so the only reason you'd Vanish out of shield is if you're doing it WAY BEFORE they're actually hitting your shield.
 
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