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Sheik Changes/In-Depth Attacks/1v1 Vids Thread >_>
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
I seriously doubt that Sheik's throws will kill, at 300%, since they don't even send off-screen by like... 200%. Pretty much everything else except for her dtilt, ftilt, and jabs will KO, though.
I haven't gotten a chance to play Tournament Mode yet.
I haven't gotten a chance to play Tournament Mode yet.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
@bluezaft...
i tried once and couldnt get it to work, but it has to work somehow (same with Zamus)
i tried once and couldnt get it to work, but it has to work somehow (same with Zamus)
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Hmm, nair I can't imagine a practical situation to use to cause a trip. bair might work for platform sliding/dropping like on Battlefield. Needles are really lol. Chain? I mean, I know that we're trying to find the uses of everything, but...
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Same feeling Ankoku but hey it's nice to have isn't it?
In addition, I forgot to bring up that he tested all of theses on Bowser and will most likely be different percentages for lighter characters; also, stale moves do effect the effectiveness of the moves ability to trip.
In addition, I forgot to bring up that he tested all of theses on Bowser and will most likely be different percentages for lighter characters; also, stale moves do effect the effectiveness of the moves ability to trip.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
seeing that its random, i dont think it´ll be that usefull anyway :D
Idfection
Smash Apprentice
I know this is a sadly mundane question, but none of these threads mention the simple things...
How do you start as Sheik? In a free for all today at blockbuster, my Gf died before she could even pull off the transformation, it sucks so bad.
How do you start as Sheik? In a free for all today at blockbuster, my Gf died before she could even pull off the transformation, it sucks so bad.
It works the same way as selecting a specific Pokémon with Pokémon Trainer. When you choose Zelda, move your cursor to the lower part where it shows both Zelda and Sheik, and press A on Sheik. If you did it right, the image will flash a little and Sheik will now be in front of Zelda.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
...I'm thinking about dropping Sheik now
Her jab has no use, her down smash can be shield grab in mid move, her air needles have about as much lag as her ^B when you land, ^B can't be controlled as well and can't sweet spot from above, chain doesn't seem to have any real use even with it's stronger hit back, and tilts can be escapable or nair countered.
Worst yet, I've been having huge problems finding a safe approach beside dash, cancel dash with shield , down tilt out of my opponent grab range and running grabs. Next time I get to play I'll see if hitting the higher part of someone shield is more escapable then hitting lower, wish me luck.
Her jab has no use, her down smash can be shield grab in mid move, her air needles have about as much lag as her ^B when you land, ^B can't be controlled as well and can't sweet spot from above, chain doesn't seem to have any real use even with it's stronger hit back, and tilts can be escapable or nair countered.
Worst yet, I've been having huge problems finding a safe approach beside dash, cancel dash with shield , down tilt out of my opponent grab range and running grabs. Next time I get to play I'll see if hitting the higher part of someone shield is more escapable then hitting lower, wish me luck.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
you should try to short hop more with her, i find it quite effective tristan 
i like her nair and fair as an opening move
i like her nair and fair as an opening move
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I don't, the **** cpu shield grabs me or counters with the A-A-A combo the majority of the time. It isn't reliable at all.you should try to short hop more with her, i find it quite effective tristan
i like her nair and fair as an opening move
I find d-air to be useful sometimes when I'm up above and my opponent uses his up-smash or something, the short time I'd stand still in the air would make my opponent whiff if I'm high enough and he'd be punished by said d-air. If you fail though, gah the lag D:
And the way I play Sheik mostly revolves around punishing lag by grabbing (her dash is too good). Also, l2 airdodge, I always tend to forget that I'm not incapacitated after ADing.
And the way I play Sheik mostly revolves around punishing lag by grabbing (her dash is too good). Also, l2 airdodge, I always tend to forget that I'm not incapacitated after ADing.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
stop playing CPUs
that simple
also: you should use spacing ^^
that simple
also: you should use spacing ^^
I don't think Sheik is a character that can be played normally. She's got low priority and a pretty changed moveset.
That said, don't try to sweetspot from above with Vanish, just use Chain. Also, landing from Vanish has GREATLY reduced lag. Needles are pretty useless in this game for anything except tacking on some extra damage every once in a while.
Well I've been told that the game kept track of the last 9 moves you performed and reduced their knockback accordingly. If each needle is registered as an individual hit, then I'd say they're pretty good.
I'd have to say her low priority is the only thing that really pisses me off. And her range too... First time I ever played an Ike online, all my efforts in the air were shut down because there wasn't a single thing that could out prioritize his aerials... And the super armor on that neutral-b is a pain as well. ._."
I'd have to say her low priority is the only thing that really pisses me off. And her range too... First time I ever played an Ike online, all my efforts in the air were shut down because there wasn't a single thing that could out prioritize his aerials... And the super armor on that neutral-b is a pain as well. ._."
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
afaik stored needles only count 1 hit
havent played any Ikes yet, so i cant help with that xD
havent played any Ikes yet, so i cant help with that xD
Ike can really mess with your aerial game. I was pretty much stuck to using needles and getting in ftilt > usmash/aerial combos whenever I could.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
hmm, spacing with the fair...Well I guess it can be done and maybe a little craq walk after words would be effective, maybe the same could be done with the bair.
What really pisses me off though is that every time I start to do "good" or rather get some speed into my play I start acting like this is melee and do something dumb like the shino stall or try to do a needle storm cancel. It doesn't happen often but enough to taunt me. Those habits I’ve drilled into my play for the past two years I now have to break which is really saddening. Things like this only making switching my character to someone like Zammus really tempting
What really pisses me off though is that every time I start to do "good" or rather get some speed into my play I start acting like this is melee and do something dumb like the shino stall or try to do a needle storm cancel. It doesn't happen often but enough to taunt me. Those habits I’ve drilled into my play for the past two years I now have to break which is really saddening. Things like this only making switching my character to someone like Zammus really tempting
Olimar is a piece of ****. He's got range and projectiles and generally pisses me off because he's difficult to get close to, especially with Sheik's low priority attacks and aerials.
Getting him offstage is the top priority, because he's one of the easier characters to gimp on an edgeguard (Ivysaur is probably the easiest). Oh, and for some reason dair beats out Olimar's usmash, so mix that in every once in a while.
Getting him offstage is the top priority, because he's one of the easier characters to gimp on an edgeguard (Ivysaur is probably the easiest). Oh, and for some reason dair beats out Olimar's usmash, so mix that in every once in a while.
I have yet to fight a decent Snake but if you know where a landmine has been placed, it shouldn't be that hard to avoid D: I also believe that Sheik should have the advantage as about every aerial except for maybe his b-air should come out faster. With your speed, approaching shouldn't be that much of a problem and while you'd really have to watch out for his grabs, being aggressive shuts down most of his moveset as they generally have high startup times/delays~ Snake needs a lot of space to work his way around.
Oh and about Sheik's Tether recovery, you can't use it more than 3 times off-stage~ After that the chain will just come out without sweetspotting. I don't really know when you'd get to use the chain that many times but yeah... XD
And fair is your aerial with the least range... =/
I don't believe in approaching via aerials with sheik XD She's much better on the ground. You can camp and throw needles for an easy 16~18%, dash attack past someone, punish whiffs with grabs (I like to d-throw and follow with a late u-air, if I know I won't get outprioritized by their d-air. Late because when they see me coming, they airdodge immediately, so I u-air late to punish that)... D-smash is probably the move I spam the most, its still a killer, though its range can be deceptively small...
edit#13208: that being said, me using d-smash too much leads into it having no KO potential whatsoever. Same goes for b-air. F-smash is easily DI'd out of... F-air doesn't kill until the high 100s, and even then, it won't guarentee you a kill at 160%, Sheik has no priority in the air whatsoever, u-air is my favorite "comboer" and has a decent range but that doesn't kill because of abuse as well... Really, Sheik has to work way too hard to get kills lol. You'd have to spam your moves with the least range and priority in order to get a kill under 150% D: while the rest of the cast have killers that conform to melee standards (as in 100~130%). She holds herself quite well on the ground, and is extremely good at punishing but yeah... I find myself to be screaming ''bull****" way too much when dying at 110% against an olimar, 70 against an ike, 120 against a ZSS, etc...
Oh and about Sheik's Tether recovery, you can't use it more than 3 times off-stage~ After that the chain will just come out without sweetspotting. I don't really know when you'd get to use the chain that many times but yeah... XD
I don't like using nair as an approaching move because to have a decent amount of knockback, you have to hit with the very tip of sheik's foot, which is usually right above anyone's head when shorthopped, and that, during the move's very first frames else it loses all its knockback potential and gets you punished. Coming down on someone with a nair doesn't do jack to help your case either as you'll get shieldgrabbed asap.you should try to short hop more with her, i find it quite effective tristan
i like her nair and fair as an opening move
And fair is your aerial with the least range... =/
I don't believe in approaching via aerials with sheik XD She's much better on the ground. You can camp and throw needles for an easy 16~18%, dash attack past someone, punish whiffs with grabs (I like to d-throw and follow with a late u-air, if I know I won't get outprioritized by their d-air. Late because when they see me coming, they airdodge immediately, so I u-air late to punish that)... D-smash is probably the move I spam the most, its still a killer, though its range can be deceptively small...
edit#13208: that being said, me using d-smash too much leads into it having no KO potential whatsoever. Same goes for b-air. F-smash is easily DI'd out of... F-air doesn't kill until the high 100s, and even then, it won't guarentee you a kill at 160%, Sheik has no priority in the air whatsoever, u-air is my favorite "comboer" and has a decent range but that doesn't kill because of abuse as well... Really, Sheik has to work way too hard to get kills lol. You'd have to spam your moves with the least range and priority in order to get a kill under 150% D: while the rest of the cast have killers that conform to melee standards (as in 100~130%). She holds herself quite well on the ground, and is extremely good at punishing but yeah... I find myself to be screaming ''bull****" way too much when dying at 110% against an olimar, 70 against an ike, 120 against a ZSS, etc...
usmash is probably sheik's best ko move, and it helps that you can run into the usmash and have no lag from the dashing. i might be imagining things, but when i saw the japanese brawl vids, i could have sworn her usmash took a really long time. they seem pretty quick in the us release. i can't find the vid of her repeated running and upsmashing so i can't really see if i'm correct or crazy.
You can upsmash out of a dash by pressing up on the C-Stick or just inputting the upsmash normally with A.
Her best KO moves are Usmash, Vanish, and Fsmash, in that order. Bair and Dsmash are probably fourth and fifth.
Her best KO moves are Usmash, Vanish, and Fsmash, in that order. Bair and Dsmash are probably fourth and fifth.
I've been messing around with the game since launch and been watching vids since the Japanese launch, Here my take on Sheik thus far. She seems to have been flayed with the nerfing stick at first glance. But Brawl in general was left a bit bit bloody from the much feared nerfing stick so its really not that bad. Her needles have been mentioned but one thing I havent seen mentioned is the increased lag on her ground needles. In melee I could combo off a fully charged needles if I was close enough and at most life percentages. Brawl on the other hand I dont get this unless im the right distance away and only a jab seems fast enough to combo. Even with that being said I think they are more important piece of her game now. Sheiks game now seems to revolve around using her still good mobility to dance around the enemy spacing heavily building damage until you land a good opening move. This usaully means something that leads into a Ftilt combo.
Something like Dtilt, Ftilt 2+ times, Throw, Punch them in the face once or twice, throw them foward, Then shoot needles....if you dont have a full charge spam them till they hit the ground abd it best to start spacing again. This does like 40%avg I think off the top of my head and works most of the time. She still has a few aerial combos lying around. Im not sure how much DI affects them since setting them up is much harder and havent got to test them much., but Uair rejump into Uair still works and so does Fair into Fair. The next thing everyone seems to have noticed is Sheik cant KO if her life depended on it, but sadly it does. Her best KO moves seem to be Vanish and UPsmash. The problem here is both thee are hard to land and everything else seems to need the enemy to be at 120%+.
Now this seems to be where most people are hitting a road block. There is a way to get around this, Transform into Zelda. I can already hear the fires burning in the thread as i say this but once I started doing this I started winning more. Where as sheiks cant KO Zelda has plenty of ways to kill once an enemy is at 70%+. I saw another thread where another player mentioned this but he got mostly flames and complaints. The most valid gripe i saw was when am I going to be able to transform? Well for one thing the transformation into zelda takes a bit less time than the one into sheik. What I do is once my opponent gets around 70%(depending on match up) the first attack I gets that knocks my enemy away I transfrom into zelda. I usually have enough time to turn into zelda and not get hit for it. Even if they do get up to fast enough to hit me its still worth it as long as Im not in easy KO range. The way I see the odds are better that Zelda will kill them even taking a hit than chasing the enemy around the stage with sheik until They get to 120%+ where sheiks moves start KOing. Another time I find to transform is when I knocked away or way up in the air. Once im Zelda I start zoning like crazy scaring them and baiting them at the same time. If they do happen to get close I just try to land a move that with knock them up or away it doesnt have to KO. Her Dsmash is really quick covers both sides and knocks away pretty far. Players know at high damage one good smash(OMGZ Fair!) will kill them so they cant just rush you recklessly. I think there is one other move of note for Zelda, this is what really lets you switch to her, Dins Fire. For you sheik players who never played Zelda for more that a second thats her fireball. Dins fire is better in every single aspect of the move. What makes it shine though is it can KO starting around 90-100%. Say for example I manage to land a Fsmash with Zelda but it doesnt kill, they will be trying to comeback to the stage I send dins fire up there for a KO. Once you here them get KOed turn back into sheik they cant respawn before you do. One last blurb , anytime you transform stale move negation resests.
I know this is the sheik forum and i just ranted about Zelda, but Sheik players keep posting that they are going to just stop playing sheik and main someone else. I figured there are more sheik players than zelda players so I posted here where it wont get buried under random AT threads and flame threads complaining about some guy named a technique something I dont like in a more general forum. To me not using Zelda is like trying to do everything with just your right hand(or left for you south paws). Sakurai seems to be trying to make everything in the game or that a character ha have a reason to be used.
One thing I have been wondering about for sheik is if footstool jump has any use for her. I forgot it was even there until today. Maybe short hop, footstoll jump,. Nair into a fast fall and maybe a trip combo if your lucky?
Something like Dtilt, Ftilt 2+ times, Throw, Punch them in the face once or twice, throw them foward, Then shoot needles....if you dont have a full charge spam them till they hit the ground abd it best to start spacing again. This does like 40%avg I think off the top of my head and works most of the time. She still has a few aerial combos lying around. Im not sure how much DI affects them since setting them up is much harder and havent got to test them much., but Uair rejump into Uair still works and so does Fair into Fair. The next thing everyone seems to have noticed is Sheik cant KO if her life depended on it, but sadly it does. Her best KO moves seem to be Vanish and UPsmash. The problem here is both thee are hard to land and everything else seems to need the enemy to be at 120%+.
Now this seems to be where most people are hitting a road block. There is a way to get around this, Transform into Zelda. I can already hear the fires burning in the thread as i say this but once I started doing this I started winning more. Where as sheiks cant KO Zelda has plenty of ways to kill once an enemy is at 70%+. I saw another thread where another player mentioned this but he got mostly flames and complaints. The most valid gripe i saw was when am I going to be able to transform? Well for one thing the transformation into zelda takes a bit less time than the one into sheik. What I do is once my opponent gets around 70%(depending on match up) the first attack I gets that knocks my enemy away I transfrom into zelda. I usually have enough time to turn into zelda and not get hit for it. Even if they do get up to fast enough to hit me its still worth it as long as Im not in easy KO range. The way I see the odds are better that Zelda will kill them even taking a hit than chasing the enemy around the stage with sheik until They get to 120%+ where sheiks moves start KOing. Another time I find to transform is when I knocked away or way up in the air. Once im Zelda I start zoning like crazy scaring them and baiting them at the same time. If they do happen to get close I just try to land a move that with knock them up or away it doesnt have to KO. Her Dsmash is really quick covers both sides and knocks away pretty far. Players know at high damage one good smash(OMGZ Fair!) will kill them so they cant just rush you recklessly. I think there is one other move of note for Zelda, this is what really lets you switch to her, Dins Fire. For you sheik players who never played Zelda for more that a second thats her fireball. Dins fire is better in every single aspect of the move. What makes it shine though is it can KO starting around 90-100%. Say for example I manage to land a Fsmash with Zelda but it doesnt kill, they will be trying to comeback to the stage I send dins fire up there for a KO. Once you here them get KOed turn back into sheik they cant respawn before you do. One last blurb , anytime you transform stale move negation resests.
I know this is the sheik forum and i just ranted about Zelda, but Sheik players keep posting that they are going to just stop playing sheik and main someone else. I figured there are more sheik players than zelda players so I posted here where it wont get buried under random AT threads and flame threads complaining about some guy named a technique something I dont like in a more general forum. To me not using Zelda is like trying to do everything with just your right hand(or left for you south paws). Sakurai seems to be trying to make everything in the game or that a character ha have a reason to be used.
One thing I have been wondering about for sheik is if footstool jump has any use for her. I forgot it was even there until today. Maybe short hop, footstoll jump,. Nair into a fast fall and maybe a trip combo if your lucky?
Crossjeremiah
Smash Ace
her nair is not that bad
Tristan_win
Not dead.
As some of you know already when Sheik reaper right after using her ^B if she is near or in some cases in a character they will be pushed back automatically to make space for Sheik, well I don't know if it been noted yet or not but this can become a great problem when it comes to her ^B
If you hit someone with your ^B and then direct yourself to the course they travel odds are (to about 150% against Marth) you will stop the knock back of your ^B and replace it with the little knock.
If you hit someone with your ^B and then direct yourself to the course they travel odds are (to about 150% against Marth) you will stop the knock back of your ^B and replace it with the little knock.
Crossjeremiah: I agree. It's Sheik's best killing aerial, in fact.
Tristan_win: It's a really silly occurrence, but pretty easy to avoid unless you hit them with Vanish during your recovery or something. On the rare occasion that you do accidentally bump into them, they'll probably not expect it and fail to tech, letting you usmash them once you land : P
Tristan_win: It's a really silly occurrence, but pretty easy to avoid unless you hit them with Vanish during your recovery or something. On the rare occasion that you do accidentally bump into them, they'll probably not expect it and fail to tech, letting you usmash them once you land : P
R3N0
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,899
Check out my amazing sheik, don't hate.. no hate-or-raide plz
Reno ( Sheik ) vs HBK ( Fox )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk7fjt1B_Kc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLVVGi5Ylso
this is just the first 2.. then we have my sheik vs his ike
Reno ( Sheik ) vs HBK ( Ike )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jycQ3fKUJaE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNgkpHLzE-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSgaj1pMB4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htkp8Acypb8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7qeyFTAwZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krjiyajI-VQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtbPSuhYTWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ3ndGQOhq0
i said dont hate!
Reno ( Sheik ) vs HBK ( Fox )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk7fjt1B_Kc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLVVGi5Ylso
this is just the first 2.. then we have my sheik vs his ike
Reno ( Sheik ) vs HBK ( Ike )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jycQ3fKUJaE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNgkpHLzE-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSgaj1pMB4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htkp8Acypb8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7qeyFTAwZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krjiyajI-VQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtbPSuhYTWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ3ndGQOhq0
i said dont hate!
People say that her transformation time is too long, but couldn't Sheik, while on the ledge, jump up, transform and grab the ledge as Zelda? Or, just to refresh all the moves, jump up again as Zelda, transform and grab the ledge? Sheik can still vanish and grab the ledge from a decent distance down.
....And get edgehogged. Sheik > Zelda transformation is short enough, maybe, but Sheik doesn't have a hitbox on her reappear, so you're pretty much setting yourself up for death with Zelda > Sheik.
Ah, well it could work from Sheik (on ledge)->Zelda, since the animation ends with Zelda right next to the ledge. If you decided to drop down/away from the ledge, Zelda's Faroe's Wind ending has a hitbox...so maybe using Zelda for KO'ing is viable after all?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Q2gfVEf0k
Should be added to the first post, looks good for Sheik.
Should be added to the first post, looks good for Sheik.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
wow
this will make the usmash a more viable killing move..
i had a hard time hitting with the usmash, but with this it´ll be alot easier...
i heard about this earlier, but i didnt know it really worked
thanks alot green
(it seems hydroplaning isnt such an unique technique afterall.. ****)
this will make the usmash a more viable killing move..
i had a hard time hitting with the usmash, but with this it´ll be alot easier...
i heard about this earlier, but i didnt know it really worked
thanks alot green
(it seems hydroplaning isnt such an unique technique afterall.. ****)
Tristan_win
Not dead.
So I've continued to play around with Sheik in brawl and I'm beginning to think an Ftilt to A-A-A combo is not only a better way to deal more damage quickly then continuing to Ftilt or Utilt but it’s also overall safer.
At least at the lower percentages
At least at the lower percentages
This could be really useful when they're at 100%+, since if you get an f-tilt in then, say, 12 jabs, ALL your KO moves (up-smash, down-smash, nair, uair, bair) will ALL be back at full knockback and damage. I've found that if I can get in the jab combo (ESPECIALLY if they're against a wall!) then it hits enough to bring back all my needed knockback.
Alright...so this is a bit idealistic, but even if you get 6 or 8 jabs, plus the f-tilt, you're other moves will be more powerful.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
IRC, only one hit counts in Jab combos...
i´m not sure though..
(towards the decay system stuff)
i´m not sure though..
(towards the decay system stuff)
Nevermind Nah, for multi-hit attacks, each individual hit counts (like in jab combos)...here's more info on the decay system, taken from the new techniques thread in Tactical Discussion.
http://smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=181
http://smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=181
mugwhump said: