SHDF or SHfair>uair

[Diatenshi]

is there an advantage to using the short hopped fair to upair over the short hopped double fair, ive been expirimenting with it, is the upair possibly safer when it hits a sheild? its been setting up fairly well for grabs even if untipped, where a fair would not.

Actual question, are there better characters to use this against? are there any marth advantages for this versus another Fair? where is the big m2k frame data thread, or can someone tell me how much lag is on Uair vs Fair?

 

[Niko45]

Not that either is an incredibly fantastic tactic. You need to know the first one will/has hit before going for another. On lighter characters, like another Marth for instance, double fair is better because it pushes them off stage or potentially into an fsmash/more fairs. Against fastfallers, up air can help extend combos, not allowing them to get to the ground and tech, and leading into up tilt which you really want.

It's all very dependent on percents and their DI. I mean, up air is going to tip from very close range, where as the second fair wouldn't, and this is a good or bad thing depending on the character you are fighting. Non tip fair is good for pushing lighter characters towards the edge, tipped up air is good vs FFers bc they can escape non tip fair by CCing or teching.

In general though, at percents where you could potentially be comboing from SH 2 aerials, its almost always better to get a grab and work off that than to try to approach or lead in with fair.

 

[Diatenshi]

ok so if you assume that its not used wrong double fair is good on everyone light or normal
and fair > upair is good on fastfallers or some sort of heavy

i'd guess shiek is a median, depending on %

also i looked up the framedata, the upair comes out in 5 frames the Fair in 4, but have same landing lag which is 7 frames, and shieldstun of 12 frames when tipped (if i got all my data right)

so im gonna theorize, that upair might be better for super agressive grabbing vs non spacies (they can shine), due to its really close tip range, cause the Fair tipper is out of marths grab range, right?

Im just tryin ta mix it up, and since ive got the thread, are there any other potential arials to use? like the 1st swing of Nair, i doubt itll do much, maybe it can tink into a grab if it hits

 

[Niko45]

Yea, sheik in general you really want to be fairing, but at low %, say up until around 30%, up air is still a good option against her simply because it will combo into fairs.

You can also space that up air on shields or CC grab/shine safely against a lot of characters.

But again, at low % aggressive short hop aerials are dangerous and can be countered by lots of stuff. If Marths are using aerials at all at low % it's usually a retreating or late fair, which is why you really don't see SH double aerial very much. Marth really does better off a grab anyway in most matchups.

 

[TheManaLord]

old/10

you can also sh fair bair (tho not plausible)
fair dair (cool technique at low percents for pop up)
fair first hit nair (good tap reset to grab)
fair uair (good popup for grab or utilt or fsmash or somethin)
fair fair (best used retreating as a wall)

 

[Diatenshi]

sorry for bringing up something old, and thanks for all the info, ill try and put it to use

 

[skrach8]

They serve different purposes. I personally use shf->uair to give off a false sense of security and space to bait wiffed grabs and what not. After the uair i usually go in for a short hop nair, assuming the first attacks landed on the shield with proper spacing. After that i jab to keep them locked in the shield and A. grab for practical/logical reasons orrr B. use shield break if im feeling ballsy, because by this time the shield is worn down pretty low.

Double fair is good when trying to put up a wall and is also good as a mix up, with that said, both are very feasible options. The only thing you need to worry about is when to use them and how ur opponent reacts respectively. Do not spam either nor rely on aerial tactics as your only form of pressure.

p.s. I also like to throw out a double fair with a slight retreat to Ftilt, sets up nicely.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

sh fair waveland is rly gud 2