Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Door Key Pig]

Uuuuh... This actually makes me a bit nervous

Link to verify
https://twitter.com/MrBozon/status/1058101604329484288

Will there be a next time though? Or at least w/ Sakurai and/or this amazing roster?

 

[Stephano]

Link to verify
https://twitter.com/MrBozon/status/1058101604329484288

Will there be a next time though? Or at least w/ Sakurai and/or this amazing roster?

Seeing that the switch will have a lifespan of about 6 years, I think this is it. Although they could launch DLC for it's entire life span which sounds good but I don't want to wait 3-4 years just to play as her. Hopefully by then people will mod the game to make it good include additional characters.

 

[Makai Wars]

Link to verify
https://twitter.com/MrBozon/status/1058101604329484288

Will there be a next time though? Or at least w/ Sakurai and/or this amazing roster?

Man, who knows. I think like a lot of fanbases, Ultimate was Shantae's best shot, if she's not in as DLC I can't see the support base being as strong next time around unless Shantae's 5 game literally ends with them bringing up Smash oh wait they kind of already did that too.
We literally spent over a half year arguing, speculating, compiling and just praying for Shantae to get in Smash and we're met with a sticker getting ignored by Wayforward, even now that their NDA is technically up, we're still not getting real answers and WF is once again ignoring questions, this time pertaining to DLC.
I don't know about everyone else but I'm not really down to ride this rodeo a second time only for Shantae to not get anything again and instead we get the new promotional FE fighter or something. I want to be hopeful for DLC but I feel like I can't trust WF to deliver if they're so content with Shantae's current status as PNG and singular cameo. At least I can have her be my lobby icon or something.

 

[hassoutobi]

Sakurai said during the direct that he would work on fully new characters, which eliminates plenty of characters on top of the AT ones.
Now is mor than ever the time to show we're here !
We're actually one of the luckiest fan teams after this direct.

if being in as a spirit is just an upgraded form of being in as a trophy, and multiple trophies have upgraded to fighters, as well as multiple spirits being playable fighters...

that does get my hopes up for her being in as DLC. i feel so bad for isaac, shadow, and skullkid people...

i just wonder why Shantae isn't in Blade Strangers or really anything else and why Wayforward is still ignoring certain questions...

could it be that she's still waiting to be announced in a more prominent role and her spirit form is just a holdover for her fans?

with rex, skullkid, and isaac completely out of the picture, she does have A LOT less competition when it comes to DLC slots.

 

[Deleted member]

I’m not giving up until the last dlc character is revealed. But Matt’s tweets are not instilling confidence exactly.

Im not giving up.... EVER.
If Ridley fans can wait 4 games so can I.

 

[Grimacebsx]

I've never been a big fan of these stat boost stickers since brawl (or the stat boosting mechanic at all). And these modes really pale in comparison to what was already there... Really hoping shantae makes a come back (dlc) but wayforward isn't installing much confidence. Now's the time to announce a new game to change discussion more positively.

 

[Tybalt: Herbal One]

She was the only thing I wanted in a game I knew I was already going to hate from the beginning. I saw the initial game play and thought, "oh, it's just slow, boring, no combos Smash 4."

I would argue that a single character should not be the reason that you buy a game, especially if you hate the game prior to release.

 

[MajestyIndigo]

Most of us kinda expected having to wait for DLC in the first place anyway, and here we go. Nothing has changed aside from the fact that we now know that Shantae is offcially here, somewhere in the smash bros univers.
We are one of the very rare teams to be standing still after this direct... While many new ones will probably come, lots of top contenders have been swept away today.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I mean, if Sakurai is insane enough to include a freaking Piranha Plant, would he be mad enough as to...

Make Rottytops (or Holly ), the first playable reps from the Shantae series, instead of the title character herself?

 

[Wwlink55]

I would argue that a single character should not be the reason that you buy a game, especially if you hate the game prior to release.

Im of the same mindset. I was really hard-set for Shantae, but I was still willing to consider the game if it had decent single-player content. With what was shown, I am somewhat nervous about how much is actually available. Im just hoping there's a lot of variety in the adventure mode.

 

[Biometal]

Well, I'm back for a bit. 30+ pages I had to skip this time? Probably more.

Ah well...anyway. I was relieved to see that she wasn't AT'd, but still got thrown completely off during that short last-minute span of Shantae appearing as a Spirit. I'm at least glad they mentioned DLC early on this time around, but it is a shame that we have to wait up to a year for any form of reveals, which will mean even more ridiculous leaks and such about her will continue being spewed out.

I'm proud that she's at least acknowledged, somewhat. I'm hoping she's at least one of those 5 DLC slots, which I think at least one of Sakurai's personal wants will have already claimed (Geno, Mach Rider, etc). However, I can't fully expect her to be. It doesn't seem like they're going off popular picks anymore; I don't know a single soul who've asked for the three reveals today (before the Vergeben butt-kissing started, anyway).

We have Indie music, an Indie Trophy, and an Indie AT. Shantae is the only Indie character relevant enough for playable status who also isn't being selfishly prevented by her owner(s). She is an easy and highly-requested character to add in, so I just don't see why he wouldn't do it. There is literally nothing stopping him.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I just downloaded Shantae 1/2-Genie Hero on the eShop and... it just makes me even more disappointed that she's not on the Smash roster. There are similarities between her game and the Subspace Emissary like the way she knocks enemies off the screen, and her ULTIMATE Slumber Party where she invites EVERYONE? It's like Wayforward made this game with her inclusion in Smash in mind. She'd better be the first DLC fighter pack after Piranha Plant. If she isn't even planned for DLC, Wayforward has some explaining to do. In fact, there needs to be some explanation on why she isn't on the base roster already.

 

[zferolie]

I'd love to see Dixie Kong, if only because it would make LaBeteNoire happy, and knowing that he's happy, will probably make me feel happier than him haha.

But, Rex? Come on, it's Elma, or bust. But, if you want to talk the wider "Xeno" series, then KOS-MOS would be brilliant too.

Since sakurai basically said he got revealed too late to be a fighter at all i assume any xeno 2 characters have no chance. So really its Elma or KOS-MOS as the only xenoblade characters with a chance.

Link to verify
https://twitter.com/MrBozon/status/1058101604329484288

Will there be a next time though? Or at least w/ Sakurai and/or this amazing roster?

I dont think he is saying yes for next time, more yes for how good of a spirit she is. Untill they outright say she is not in i am keeping on her.

Man, who knows. I think like a lot of fanbases, Ultimate was Shantae's best shot, if she's not in as DLC I can't see the support base being as strong next time around unless Shantae's 5 game literally ends with them bringing up Smash oh wait they kind of already did that too.
We literally spent over a half year arguing, speculating, compiling and just praying for Shantae to get in Smash and we're met with a sticker getting ignored by Wayforward, even now that their NDA is technically up, we're still not getting real answers and WF is once again ignoring questions, this time pertaining to DLC.
I don't know about everyone else but I'm not really down to ride this rodeo a second time only for Shantae to not get anything again and instead we get the new promotional FE fighter or something. I want to be hopeful for DLC but I feel like I can't trust WF to deliver if they're so content with Shantae's current status as PNG and singular cameo. At least I can have her be my lobby icon or something.

I plan to user her lobby icon exclusivly haha. But i can understand not wanting to wait and nothing happening. Still, i think we should be happy she is in at all, that the game looks really good, and we have more coming for at least a year post release, maybe longer.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

We have Indie music, an Indie Trophy, and an Indie AT. Shantae is the only Indie character relevant enough for playable status who also isn't being selfishly prevented by her owner(s). She is an easy and highly-requested character to add in, so I just don't see why he wouldn't do it. There is literally nothing stopping him.

There is a theory that Sakurai might have intended to create Shantae with a moveset faithful to her games.
But since that would include giving her full transformations, she might've proved to be more complex and time consuming to develop as anticipated.
So she was held back for DLC, so they have more time to develop and finish her.

Of course just a theory.
But a good possibility.


Also are those two missing blog pages still unaccounted for?

 

[Kirbeh]

Another thing to consider. With Rex (and Spring Man probably being in the same boat) being too late to make the cut, do you guys think the DLC fighters will be exclusively characters that existed prior to the completion of Ultimate's project plan or is the door still open for newer characters? With the way the Rex costume was shown and acknowledged as unfortunately not making the cut I'd wager that the 5 have already been decided. Well for this season at least. We don't know if there'll be more or whether criteria for future DLC will change.

Assuming that any post Ult. project plan characters are off the table I'm actually finding it a bit difficult to even guess who we might get. Of course I have more than enough hopeful wants to fill those spaces (with Shantae at #1), but no concrete predictions aside from possibly Square finally letting Sakurai add Geno.

 

[Makai Wars]

There is a theory that Sakurai might have intended to create Shantae with a moveset faithful for her games.
But since that would include giving her full transformations, she might've proved to be more complex and time consuming to develop as anticipated.
So she was held back for DLC, so they have more time to develop and finish her.

Of course just a theory.
But a good possibility.


Also are those two missing blog pages still unaccounted for?

This is a good way to think about it. With Shantae pushed to DLC, the development team would have ample time to give her a proper moveset that fits her perfectly. Considering Piranha Plant is in this weird limbo of being almost done but not quite, and also didn't get his own animated trailer, it's obvious they were working right up to the deadline on this game and some more intensive characters could have been held back for DLC.

With the way the Rex costume was shown and acknowledged as unfortunately not making the cut I'd wager that the 5 have already been decided.

This is what I would LIKE to think since it prevents lame promotional choices like FE#8 or another new Pokemon, but another part of me feels Sakurai withheld telling us who's in the season pass because maybe some fighters really won't make it at the end and we really will get some lame promotional character no one wants.

Either way, I consider Geno and Dixie extremely safe, and if Sakurai finally goes back on his stipulation that ATs can't be playable too, Isaac as well he deserves it lol

 

[Teeb147]

Since sakurai basically said he got revealed too late to be a fighter at all i assume any xeno 2 characters have no chance. So really its Elma or KOS-MOS as the only xenoblade characters with a chance.



I dont think he is saying yes for next time, more yes for how good of a spirit she is. Untill they outright say she is not in i am keeping on her.



I plan to user her lobby icon exclusivly haha. But i can understand not wanting to wait and nothing happening. Still, i think we should be happy she is in at all, that the game looks really good, and we have more coming for at least a year post release, maybe longer.

It doesnt add up though, because they can choose new characters from this point onwards for dlc.
So why wouldn't rex be on the table?

 

[Dyllybirdy]

It doesnt add up though, because they can choose new characters from this point onwards for dlc.
So why wouldn't rex be on the table?

Well, I wouldn't buy him, so there's that.

 

[Teeb147]

You guys want to hear a crazy theory? It's based on some stuff I heard in the Isaac thread.

Ken's portrait in the banner looks like the one in the leak. What if it's the same, and that after the leak they decided to push all the other characters to dlc spots in order to make it look 'debuncked'?

 

[MagusOfIllusions]

Hey guys I just want to mention that sakurai stated that he still wants to focus on finishing the game and looking at zelda who looks very similar to Shantae and can be used as a base for her.There is most definitley a great chance she could be chosen for DLC there is still hope!

 

[Kirbeh]

It doesnt add up though, because they can choose new characters from this point onwards for dlc.
So why wouldn't rex be on the table?

Possibly if the 5 have already been decided. Similar to how project plans for Ultimate began during Sm4sh DLC, he might have begun drafting some plans for DLC late into Ultimate's development. They're decided, but work will only just be starting once Ult. launches.

 

[Makai Wars]

You guys want to hear a crazy theory? It's based on some stuff I heard in the Isaac thread.

Ken's portrait in the banner looks like the one in the leak. What if it's the same, and that after the leak they decided to push all the other characters to dlc spots in order to make it look 'debunked'?

Nintendo would never do a major undertaking of that magnitude just because of a leak.

 

[Teeb147]

Possibly if the 5 have already been decided. Similar to project plans for Ultimate began during Sm4sh DLC, he might have begun drafting some plans for DLC late into Ultimate's development. They're decided, but work will only just be starting once Ult. launches.

That's what I was thinking, but in the direct they said what some people thought, that dlc stuff is just decided after the game release.
Maybe it isn't, like i thought, but when i heard that I thought it was confirmation that they havent planned them yet

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

This is a good way to think about it. With Shantae pushed to DLC, the development team would have ample time to give her a proper moveset that fits her perfectly. Considering Piranha Plant is in this weird limbo of being almost done but not quite, and also didn't get his own animated trailer, it's obvious they were working right up to the deadline on this game and some more intensive characters could have been held back for DLC.


This is what I would LIKE to think since it prevents lame promotional choices like FE#8 or another new Pokemon, but another part of me feels Sakurai withheld telling us who's in the season pass because maybe some fighters really won't make it at the end and we really will get some lame promotional character no one wants.

Either way, I consider Geno and Dixie extremely safe, and if Sakurai finally goes back on his stipulation that ATs can't be playable too, Isaac as well he deserves it lol

Not to mention, there is a possibility we might be getting even more DLC Packs, other than those five.

This is mainly due to conflicting information from the Direct.
Sakurai said it'll take around a year to complete all these five DLC Packs.

But one of the subtitles read that DLC is scheduled up until February 2020.
Which is a little above a year.
Then again, this could change at any time.


Of course, I'm not saying it's confirmed we'll be getting more than 5.
Those 5 might as well all we're getting in terms of DLC.

But the possibility of a little more, is still there.

 

[meleebrawler]

There is a theory that Sakurai might have intended to create Shantae with a moveset faithful to her games.
But since that would include giving her full transformations, she might've proved to be more complex and time consuming to develop as anticipated.
So she was held back for DLC, so they have more time to develop and finish her.

Of course just a theory.
But a good possibility.


Also are those two missing blog pages still unaccounted for?

Looking at the amount of newcomers we have now, a harsh truth has hit me:

Bringing back veterans is much, much harder than it looks. Especially those from Melee and Brawl not in 4.

How do you make absolutely sure they can't do anything abusive with their grabs, yet also make them good enough to not need it?
How do you make Pichu not completely awful with his handicap?
Look at him! Other than his specials his moves and animations are barely recognizable from his Brawl iteration.

Those are just the standout examples. They all require significant tweaks to function in the new Ultimate environment, to say nothing of balancing. It's no wonder there wasn't much resources to go around making a lot of brand new fighters.

 

[Teeb147]

Not to mention, there is a possibility we might be getting even more DLC Packs, other than those five.

This is mainly due to conflicting information from the Direct.
Sakurai said it'll take around a year to complete all these five DLC Packs.

But one of the subtitles read that DLC is scheduled up until February 2020.
Which is a little above a year.
Then again, this could change at any time.


Of course, I'm not saying it's confirmed we'll be getting more than 5.
Those 5 might as well all we're getting in terms of DLC.

But the possibility of a little more, is still there.

That's most likely because it'll take til february to make the piranha plant, and he's not part of the 5

 

[Kirbeh]

That's what I was thinking, but in the direct they said what some people thought, that dlc stuff is just decided after the game release.
Maybe it isn't, like i thought, but when i heard that I thought it was confirmation that they havent planned them yet

He said something to that effect for Sm4sh, but iirc in today's direct he simply said that no work had been completed yet. The fact he gave us a solid number to work with along with a proper framework of what kind of content to expect makes me think that at least some planning work has been done even if proper work on the actual content hasn't yet.

 

[Teeb147]

Looking at the amount of newcomers we have now, a harsh truth has hit me:

Bringing back veterans is much, much harder than it looks. Especially those from Melee and Brawl not in 4.

How do you make absolutely sure they can't do anything abusive with their grabs, yet also make them good enough to not need it?
How do you make Pichu not completely awful with his handicap?
Look at him! Other than his specials his moves and animations are barely recognizable from his Brawl iteration.

Those are just the standout examples. They all require significant tweaks to function in the new Ultimate environment, to say nothing of balancing. It's no wonder there wasn't much resources to go around making a lot of brand new fighters.

Not really just that but they have to redo them because only smash 4 to ultimate translates the characters well. They have to redo a lot about them.
But they still take a little less time than completely new.
But let's say we would count 1 veteran like that as 0.75% of a character, 4 of them counts for 3. I'm curious to see a calculation for how many it makes in total with that.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Looking at the amount of newcomers we have now, a harsh truth has hit me:

Bringing back veterans is much, much harder than it looks. Especially those from Melee and Brawl not in 4.

How do you make absolutely sure they can't do anything abusive with their grabs, yet also make them good enough to not need it?
How do you make Pichu not completely awful with his handicap?
Look at him! Other than his specials his moves and animations are barely recognizable from his Brawl iteration.

Those are just the standout examples. They all require significant tweaks to function in the new Ultimate environment, to say nothing of balancing. It's no wonder there wasn't much resources to go around making a lot of brand new fighters.

And how does this hurt Shantae's chances for DLC?
How does this even debunk this theory of Shantae being pushed back for DLC, due to complexity? o_O

 

[Mario9919]

There is a theory that Sakurai might have intended to create Shantae with a moveset faithful to her games.
But since that would include giving her full transformations, she might've proved to be more complex and time consuming to develop as anticipated.
So she was held back for DLC, so they have more time to develop and finish her.

Of course just a theory.
But a good possibility.


Also are those two missing blog pages still unaccounted for?

That's a good theory. It makes sense.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

You guys want to hear a crazy theory? It's based on some stuff I heard in the Isaac thread.

Ken's portrait in the banner looks like the one in the leak. What if it's the same, and that after the leak they decided to push all the other characters to dlc spots in order to make it look 'debuncked'?

I had considered that, but there are a few things. One, Shadow and Isaac were in the leak and we now know they are assists. Second, a few people found images of Ken that looked like that so I assume it's a common pose for him... And last, if that's the case then we already know who the 4 if the 5 DLC characters are which would make me even sadder I already am.

 

[Teeb147]

He said something to that effect for Sm4sh, but iirc in today's direct he simply said that no work had been completed yet. The fact he gave us a solid number to work with along with a proper framework of what kind of content to expect makes me think that at least some planning work has been done even if proper work on the actual content hasn't yet.

I wonder if the version I watched wasnt translated the same. Because I watched mostly the one that had english subtitles while he was talking, not the dub.
I like your version better ;p

 

[meleebrawler]

And how does this hurt Shantae's chances for DLC?
How does this even debunk this theory of Shantae being pushed back for DLC, due to complexity? o_O

Uh, it doesn't whatsoever.

It's just an explanation to why we got a small amount of newcomers in the base game.

 

[Tybalt: Herbal One]

Im of the same mindset. I was really hard-set for Shantae, but I was still willing to consider the game if it had decent single-player content. With what was shown, I am somewhat nervous about how much is actually available. Im just hoping there's a lot of variety in the adventure mode.

They haven't shown an awful lot when it comes to the single player content, and that does worry me a bit too. At least multiplayer will keep me hooked for a while.

 

[Teeb147]

And how does this hurt Shantae's chances for DLC?
How does this even debunk this theory of Shantae being pushed back for DLC, due to complexity? o_O

There's several threads of conversation going on at the same time here. Not everything relates to the same topic.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Uh, it doesn't whatsoever.

It's just an explanation to why we got a small amount of newcomers in the base game.

Then why did you quote my post?
It has nothing to do with what I said. o_O

 

[Teeb147]

I had considered that, but there are a few things. One, Shadow and Isaac were in the leak and we now know they are assists. Second, a few people found images of Ken that looked like that so I assume it's a common pose for him... And last, if that's the case then we already know who the 4 if the 5 DLC characters are which would make me even sadder I already am.

Yeh, I didnt take it seriously, but it was an interesting thought. It would mean that they'd have to make an assist trophy for each one too just to bypass it. and more.
It seems obvious that ken being similar pose is just coincidence.

 

[Aurora Jenny]

Gah... My brain is in a very weird space. I had a massive blowout of an explosion to the point I spiked my blood pressure at work, so I've been feeling like hell the rest of the day, then come home to this. Right now I don't think my brain is willing to accept the game right now. All the major improvements seem to be to online and all that, and it feels like single-player content took a serious nose-dive. I just hope the Adventure mode is all worth it. I was so knocked for a loop when I saw Pirahna Plant as well, like... WHAT THE EVERLOVING ****, Sakurai!? I just... Right now I'm this ball of angry irrational hate, even though once I claw my way back to normality, I'm going to be like, 'This game is going to rock!' later. Guuuuuh.

That venting aside, Shantae is definitely NOT out of the running yet, nor is Bandana Waddle Dee or some others. I was shocked by some of the deconfirms though in the AT section. Knew that was going to be painful for people but still, ouch! I'm like... Good grief.

What's this about Wayforward still not answering questions regarding Shantae's chances? Shouldn't they be free now to talk about things?

 

[Biometal]

I don't get into theories much, but it looks like Sable Prince didn't "take her spot" or anything, regarding a transforming character. If fact, didn't see the kid show up at all.

But they wouldn't need to incorporate all of her transformations; just the GBC ones, or the ones Tuki gives you in HGH as Taunts.

 

[Makai Wars]

How does this even debunk this theory of Shantae being pushed back for DLC, due to complexity? o_O

Time spent on Shantae could have gone to making sure the ICs weren't broken or recreating Ivysaur and Squirtle from scratch, not to mention the heaps and heaps of stages that must have been rebuilt. If Shantae was faithfully put in Smash with all her transformations she would likely take the work of ~2 characters so it'd be understandable if she were in DLC hell simply due to how much time it would take to develop her.