Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Teeb147]

September or October feels like a good time to reveal her if she's in, don't you think?
I think it's gotta be hard a bit to wait for both us and WayForward lol.

 

[RetroMetalSonic]

How would you guys react if the reason they were keeping quiet was because Shantae wasn't in smash and they just didn't want to admit the bad news?

I'd be a bit disappointed that they didn't break it to us sooner, but then I'll just start hoping for DLC, or worst-case scenario, the next Smash Bros. Either way, I'm prepared for just about any outcome regarding Shantae.

 

[Deleted member]

I did have a (weak) theory on a non NDA reason for their silence.

Now they pushed hard during the ballot. Maybe harder then anyone. But with no ballot they don't want to seem overly pushy towards Nintendo on the matter. So they decided to take a more conservative approach and lay low. Maybe hoping for a 2nd ballot?

Still super out of character for Matt and WF tho.

 

[MattX20]

I know Wayforward wouldn't do that to their fans. That, and I have a hard time believing Shantae is just an AT. Given how she wasn't playable in Blade Strangers, Indio Pogo, or Rivals of Aether, but Shovel Knight was, I seriously doubt she's just an AT. It implies they're under a very strict NDA that forbids them from revealing any information or having her licensed to other fighting games. If she were an AT, why wouldn't they have just revealed her along with Shovel Knight?

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

If she were an AT, why wouldn't they have just revealed her along with Shovel Knight?

Unfortunately, given that I was deep into the Ashley speculation, I feel like this line of reasoning is actually on the weaker side. It's entirely possible she's being arbitrarily saved for another AT massacre.

That said... To be honest, I'd take it. Even just an AT could do wonders for her series, exposure and popularity. Not that I wouldn't explode from hype overload if she's playable.

 

[Teeb147]

I did have a (weak) theory on a non NDA reason for their silence.

Now they pushed hard during the ballot. Maybe harder then anyone. But with no ballot they don't want to seem overly pushy towards Nintendo on the matter. So they decided to take a more conservative approach and lay low. Maybe hoping for a 2nd ballot?

Still super out of character for Matt and WF tho.

Well, there's a difference between laying low with nintendo ,and completely ignoring fans who bring up smash, lol.
There could still be a reason we don't understand. but im'a say our little genie is in the game in some form.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well, there's a difference between laying low with nintendo ,and completely ignoring fans who bring up smash, lol.
There could still be a reason we don't understand. but im'a say our little genie is in the game in some form.

There's also a difference between a voice actor and a company representative. After all your character can still have a voice even as an assist.

 

[MattX20]

Unfortunately, given that I was deep into the Ashley speculation, I feel like this line of reasoning is actually on the weaker side. It's entirely possible she's being arbitrarily saved for another AT massacre.

That said... To be honest, I'd take it. Even just an AT could do wonders for her series, exposure and popularity. Not that I wouldn't explode from hype overload if she's playable.

I don't think Shovel Knight would've been allowed to have been playable in other indie fighting games had he been chosen for the game. I've seen NDAs like this where a certain character couldn't be licensed out to others because of strict requirements. To me, it feels more like she's playable.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't think Shovel Knight would've been allowed to have been playable in other indie fighting games had he been chosen for the game. I've seen NDAs like this where a certain character couldn't be licensed out to others because of strict requirements. To me, it feels more like she's playable.

It's a good hint to that, but we don't know 100% why Shantae isn't in those games. It's looking good but still possible it's for another reason.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I don't think Shovel Knight would've been allowed to have been playable in other indie fighting games had he been chosen for the game. I've seen NDAs like this where a certain character couldn't be licensed out to others because of strict requirements. To me, it feels more like she's playable.

Who really knows why she's missing? I've heard the theory that WF wouldn't want to over-saturate her appearances in order to play a long game at getting her in Smash.

I am interested in hearing a few examples of these other strict NDAs though. Could you please give me one? Also, if YCG re-tweeted or commented on any Smash-related content prior to his AT reveal, that could go a long way into convincing me she's playable. As it stands though, AT still sounds really likely.

 

[Teeb147]

Who really knows why she's missing? I've heard the theory that WF wouldn't want to over-saturate her appearances in order to play a long game at getting her in Smash.

I am interested in hearing a few examples of these other strict NDAs though. Could you please give me one? Also, if YCG re-tweeted or commented on any Smash-related content prior to his AT reveal, that could go a long way into convincing me she's playable. As it stands though, AT still sounds really likely.

It's unlikely, but yeah it's best to be open to what could be the reasons.

I don't know examples in that industry, but I do know it's common with employee-like business contracts.
It's possible that WF is also getting a little amount of money over it, in which case they wouldn't be allowed to put Shantae elsewhere.
just speculation again.

note: YCG talked about smash here and there but never responded to questions about being in smash either (as far as I checked). They would be under an NDA as well, even for an AT.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Unfortunately, given that I was deep into the Ashley speculation, I feel like this line of reasoning is actually on the weaker side. It's entirely possible she's being arbitrarily saved for another AT massacre.

That said... To be honest, I'd take it. Even just an AT could do wonders for her series, exposure and popularity. Not that I wouldn't explode from hype overload if she's playable.

I had the same thought once about Sceptile. He deserves something, if even just a trophy. (Though I immediately pushed the thought to the back of my head, still fighting and hoping for playability) I’ll take the best I can get for pretty much anyone in my top 10, even though BD and Shantae are very close to locks at this point. Not gonna get my hopes up though, learned that lesson with Ashley. Doesn’t mean I won’t fight for them though.

 

[MattX20]

Who really knows why she's missing? I've heard the theory that WF wouldn't want to over-saturate her appearances in order to play a long game at getting her in Smash.

I am interested in hearing a few examples of these other strict NDAs though. Could you please give me one? Also, if YCG re-tweeted or commented on any Smash-related content prior to his AT reveal, that could go a long way into convincing me she's playable. As it stands though, AT still sounds really likely.

From what I understood, the King K. Rool situation is very close to that kind of situation with NDAs. Sakurai called dibs, and it's why Retro Studios weren't allowed to use him for Tropical Freeze.

 

[MoveMan1]

Okay guys, we hear you. We'll tell Matt to stop pretending he has anything to hide and put out an Shantae deconfimation trailer soon. Please look forward to ten hours of Shantae crying!

...On a more serious note, if I wanted to ruin any chance of a leak, I'd pay someone to act as a red herring. Maybe enough money to fund their dream game, perhaps?

 

[DeltaSceptile]

From what I understood, the King K. Rool situation is very close to that kind of situation with NDAs. Sakurai called dibs, and it's why Retro Studios weren't allowed to use him for Tropical Freeze.

Is the time of Donkey Kong Country: The Kremling Komeback upon us? (A guy can dream right?)

 

[EarlTamm]

...On a more serious note, if I wanted to ruin any chance of a leak, I'd pay someone to act as a red herring. Maybe enough money to fund their dream game, perhaps?

While I would not be surprised if Nintendo fed wrong info to places in their company to weed out leakers, I doubt any of that would be extended to Wayforward. Especially when Shantae is almost never leaked. Like, ever.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a good hint to that, but we don't know 100% why Shantae isn't in those games. It's looking good but still possible it's for another reason.

I mean, a potential "occam's razor" reason is WF could just be more strict about who she crosses over with.

Doesn't explain the silence, but does explain the absences.

The 2 may not be connected.

 

[EarlTamm]

I mean, a potential "occam's razor" reason is WF could just be more strict about who she crosses over with.

Doesn't explain the silence, but does explain the absences.

The 2 may not be connected.

But she has crossed over with other games before. Maybe not to the same extent as Shovel Knight, but she is still one of the most prominent indie characters. And with how much we know Wayforward loves Super Smash Bros, why wouldn't they try to get Shantae in games that are inspired by it? It's still a tad strange.

 

[Teeb147]

I mean, a potential "occam's razor" reason is WF could just be more strict about who she crosses over with.

Doesn't explain the silence, but does explain the absences.

The 2 may not be connected.

Yeh, like I said, it's good to keep open to other possibilities. But if I'm real, it's unlikely because exposure is good, and there's little reason to be strict about it, though maybe a few could have some reasons somehow, but I'd still doubt it.

 

[MattX20]

I mean, a potential "occam's razor" reason is WF could just be more strict about who she crosses over with.

Doesn't explain the silence, but does explain the absences.

The 2 may not be connected.

True, but the fact is all her other crossovers lately were for other genres. The fact she didn't show up in 3 indie fighters, the same genre/style of game, and two of which are Smash Bros based in gameplay style, is very suspicious to me.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I know Wayforward wouldn't do that to their fans. That, and I have a hard time believing Shantae is just an AT. Given how she wasn't playable in Blade Strangers, Indio Pogo, or Rivals of Aether, but Shovel Knight was, I seriously doubt she's just an AT. It implies they're under a very strict NDA that forbids them from revealing any information or having her licensed to other fighting games. If she were an AT, why wouldn't they have just revealed her along with Shovel Knight?

It is possible that some form of non-compete clause exists for the 3rd party characters. Nintendo wants these games to have very marketable appeal and "This is the game you want to buy if you want Shantae in a platform fighter" is more Marketable than "This is the high-budget game you want to get if you want Shantae in a platform fighter." In particular, this is why I felt Shovel Knight was not going to be playable in this Smash game. (It's also partly why I think Snake was not in Playstation All Stars).

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that I don't particularly think the indie devs delve into that kind of mumbo jumbo. A lot of them like to work together rather than "compete" with each other. Hence why Shovel Knight is the indie ***** that he is (Not saying that in a negative light, btw)

 

[Deleted member]

But she has crossed over with other games before. Maybe no to the same extent as Shovel Knight, but she is still one of the most prominent indie characters. And with how much we know Wayforward loves Super Smash Bros, why wouldn't they try to get Shantae in games that are inspired by it? It's still a tad strange.

Yeh, like I said, it's good to keep open to other possibilities. But if I'm real, it's unlikely because exposure is good, and there's little reason to be strict about it, though maybe a few could have some reasons somehow, but I'd still doubt it.

Just playing devils advocate here. We know SK will be put in to just about any game if someone asks. WF could very well have a much more strict rules for Shantae. Yes it is odd they shes absent from fighters, but maybe WF just doesn't want her in fighting games?
When dealing with other peoples IP's you sometimes have to follow rules, an example in lots of racing games, the car companies wont always allow their cars to show damage, things like that have to be negotiated.

 

[Teeb147]

Just playing devils advocate here. We know SK will be put in to just about any game if someone asks. WF could very well have a much more strict rules for Shantae. Yes it is odd they shes absent from fighters, but maybe WF just doesn't want her in fighting games?
When dealing with other peoples IP's you sometimes have to follow rules, an example in lots of racing games, the car companies wont always allow their cars to show damage, things like that have to be negotiated.

Lol, WF wanted Shantae in smash big time. I doubt it'd be about fighting games

 

[Shinuto]

Just playing devils advocate here. We know SK will be put in to just about any game if someone asks. WF could very well have a much more strict rules for Shantae. Yes it is odd they shes absent from fighters, but maybe WF just doesn't want her in fighting games?
When dealing with other peoples IP's you sometimes have to follow rules, an example in lots of racing games, the car companies wont always allow their cars to show damage, things like that have to be negotiated.

I always found that really dumb since its not like the damage reflects on the actual quality of the cars in REAL LIFE.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol, WF wanted Shantae in smash big time. I doubt it'd be about fighting games

Smash would be an exception of course. Making the Indie Pogo roster wouldn't set your character for life.

but my point stands, there could some rule or something WF isn't willing to break for just anyone.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Holy cow the support for are Half Genie has skyrocket

 

[Teeb147]

It is possible that some form of non-compete clause exists for the 3rd party characters. Nintendo wants these games to have very marketable appeal and "This is the game you want to buy if you want Shantae in a platform fighter" is more Marketable than "This is the high-budget game you want to get if you want Shantae in a platform fighter." In particular, this is why I felt Shovel Knight was not going to be playable in this Smash game. (It's also partly why I think Snake was not in Playstation All Stars).

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that I don't particularly think the indie devs delve into that kind of mumbo jumbo. A lot of them like to work together rather than "compete" with each other. Hence why Shovel Knight is the indie ***** that he is (Not saying that in a negative light, btw)

This is actually the likeliest explanation, and along the lines I was trying to say regarding businesses. This might be the go-to theory. That there's a non-compete clause. I wasn't sure if it's a common thing in the gaming industry, but turns out that yes it is. Here's a quote I found just quick about it:

On gaming industry non-compete clauses:
"These are fairly common in my country: you agree not to work for a competitor for a year anywhere in the country, and in return the company pays you a fraction of your previous salary for that same duration "

Now obviously WF isn't considered an employee of Nintendo, but you can imagine a clause applying to parties that contribute to smash. And it's why I was also saying it's possible they're getting a small amount of money for Shantae's exclusivity in smash. They may check with nintendo when they have offers to see if it counts or not.

It's theory, but it's the best we have to explain it (in favor of Shanae in smash) for now.

 

[EarlTamm]

Smash would be an exception of course. Making the Indie Pogo roster wouldn't set your character for life.

but my point stands, there could some rule or something WF isn't willing to break for just anyone.

I guess, but that seems a little odd for Wayforward. They have always shared there IP's especially when it would please the fans. And there is a lot of Shantae requests when it comes to those games. Plus, they still respond to questions relating to those indie fighters, but not Smash? If they have no desire to be in any crossover fighter except Smash, why would you ignore the prize while falsely humor the fans who want her in those games. It makes little sense to me. Everything about it feels out of character for WF and Matt.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess, but that seems a little odd for Wayforward. They have always shared there IP's especially when it would please the fans. And there is a lot of Shantae requests when it comes to those games. Plus, they still respond to questions relating to those indie fighters, but not Smash? If they have no desire to be in any crossover fighter except Smash, why would you ignore the prize while falsely humor the fans who want her in those games. It makes little sense to me. Everything about it feels out of character for WF and Matt.

Hey I'm trying my best here to break our theory, this is the best I've come up with so far.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I do think her absence in those games is suspect, don't get me wrong...

But man... Shantae is my most wanted newcomer and prior to all these little hints piling up (and the SK AT reveal), I wrote her off as an impossible fantasy. I really don't want to get overly optimistic and get let down. So excuse me for remaining cautious and being contented by an AT if that's her fate. I'm really trying to check myself. >_>

As a random anecdotal aside though, I've gotten my most wanted character in the previous two games. In Brawl, Ike was my most wanted and in Sm4sh, Rosalina was my most wanted. If Shantae got in then that would continue the trend of me getting my most wanted character...

But ya know, anecdotal and all. xD

 

[EarlTamm]

Hey I'm trying my best here to break our theory, this is the best I've come up with so far.

Yeah, I know. It's just that any way I see it, so many things contradict each other for anything other than some sort of NDA.

 

[AngrySun88]

I guess, but that seems a little odd for Wayforward. They have always shared there IP's especially when it would please the fans. And there is a lot of Shantae requests when it comes to those games. Plus, they still respond to questions relating to those indie fighters, but not Smash? If they have no desire to be in any crossover fighter except Smash, why would you ignore the prize while falsely humor the fans who want her in those games. It makes little sense to me. Everything about it feels out of character for WF and Matt.

My thoughts exactly. This is way out of character for them - an NDA is the most likely explanation. I'm not buying the idea that WF is being silent to troll the fans. They're not the type of company who would do that. It's all very suspicious.

 

[Deleted member]

So excuse me for remaining cautious and being contented by an AT if that's her fate

Playable fighter is obviously the goal we aspire for, But I believe most of us would be absolutely thrilled if she made AT.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

I've already got some of my most wanted newcomers but if either Shantae ,Geno or Elma gets revealed i'm done for life.

But here's the thing personally i believe those three characters have a good chance in getting in so if that happens then i can't imagine what my reaction would be

 

[Teeb147]

Shantae & Geno for life :

Really, I'm just happy at the possibility she's in as playable. Maybe I'm used to disappointment, the positive is just refreshing for me

 

[MattX20]

I guess, but that seems a little odd for Wayforward. They have always shared there IP's especially when it would please the fans. And there is a lot of Shantae requests when it comes to those games. Plus, they still respond to questions relating to those indie fighters, but not Smash? If they have no desire to be in any crossover fighter except Smash, why would you ignore the prize while falsely humor the fans who want her in those games. It makes little sense to me. Everything about it feels out of character for WF and Matt.

That, and on those on those questions, their answers were fairly vague as to why Shantae didn't appear. It screams NDA

 

[A1Again]

I've been lurking around this board for a while now and wanted to join the support for her. I found Risky's Revenge back on the DSi years ago and have been playing her games quite a lot since then. I agree with everything you have all said and am holding out for her. I don't know if I can contribute much to the conversations, but I'll be here supporting her regardless. Shantae needs to be in Smash...

 

[EarlTamm]

Shantae & Geno for life :

Really, I'm just happy at the possibility she's in as playable. Maybe I'm used to disappointment, the positive is just refreshing for me

You know, is it just me, or is there a lot of crossover between Shantae and Geno fans? Not that I am complaining, I am one of them, it just seems kinda odd considering how different Shantae and Geno are.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

I've been lurking around this board for a while now and wanted to join the support for her. I found Risky's Revenge back on the DSi years ago and have been playing her games quite a lot since then. I agree with everything you have all said and am holding out for her. I don't know if I can contribute much to the conversations, but I'll be here supporting her regardless. Shantae needs to be in Smash...

Welcome Just imagine the potenial cuteness of the Kirby hat

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

You know, is it just me, or is there a lot of crossover between Shantae and Geno fans? Not that I am complaining, I am one of them, it just seems kinda odd considering how different Shantae and Geno are.

Maybe it's the "longshot" nature of both characters and the cult status (at least for Shantae 1)?

Actually, when I think on it, both SMRPG and Shantae's series are both goofy, colorful games with flashy movesets and humorous writing.