Setting the Record Straight: How DI Works in Smash 4

[Trigspro789]

 

[Trigspro789]

Just kidding, but this is complicated for a casual smasher. I need a minute to figure all of it out.

 

[Trigspro789]

sorry, accidentally double posted. Smashboards is acting weird for me.

 

[New_Dumal]

Oh yeah!
I did this kind of testing in my house and always had DI'd better than people around...Vectoring can be HUGE at horizontal knockback reductions, as said.
I survived at crazy damages with Pit, who is not a weight character.

At the same time I'm happy with being correct at this point and finally confirmed that I' was doing the right thing, people DI will be corrected in the smash scene, so I lose some advantage.

But let's not praise the ignorance.

 

[Squiiidzoid]

so if i get hit to the right by a fox, do i DI 100% left, or towards fox?

 

[TDobbs7]

I don't understand how this is complicated. If the objective is to stay on stage, why not DI towards the stage? Part of me believes that vectoring has been a thing before SSB4

 

[Laggalot101]

How did I not know this? I'm looking up Smash-related information all the time, but every source I came across to this point just said that traditional DI was a thing in this game. Should have known something was up, though. Some time after the change, I did some experiments for myself in training mode with some bob-omb's and noticed that holding up (as Bob-ombs cause horizontal knockback) did not help me live any longer under the same circumstances. I was so confused. I thought 'surely I'm overlooking something. It must have something to do with training mode or with the bob-ombs' and then never did anymore testing and just assumed all the claims were right. I had saved myself from KO's against vertical knockback through DI many times so that to me was just more confirmation.

Well, I feel like a fool now. Anyway, this will definitely help me a lot, so thanks a million!

 

[ssbMars]

I know it's paranoid to say, but I feel like a lot of these changes were made simply to spite competitive smash players...

You're not alone in thinking this. I mean Brawl was the most obvious anti-competitive Smash game imaginable, and all of its mistakes which hurt competitive Smash were done on purpose. Then from Brawl to Sm4sh, most of the new AT's in Brawl were again removed (think dacus and roll-canceling).
Now Sm4sh has some cool AT's, but they definitely weren't on purpose and could possibly get patched in the future.

 

[TDobbs7]

so if i get hit to the right by a fox, do i DI 100% left, or towards fox?

It's typically better to DI in the direction where the distance to the Blast Zone is longer. In your example, it's better to DI away from Fox.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You're not alone in thinking this. I mean Brawl was the most obvious anti-competitive Smash game imaginable, and all of its mistakes which hurt competitive Smash were done on purpose. Then from Brawl to Sm4sh, most of the new AT's in Brawl were again removed (think dacus and roll-canceling).
Now Sm4sh has some cool AT's, but they definitely weren't on purpose and could possibly get patched in the future.

Oh man..... Brawl. Those were dark times.

I was the first person to see all this coming too which was the most frustrating part for me. The thread went over 100 pages and gave me some online notoriety (Mainly 4 chan harassing me... lol)

This was 2007 stuff though. Nobody much remembers the Dylan_Tnga legacy anymore.

Here's the "What if brawl ends up sucking" thread if you're curious :

http://smashboards.com/threads/who-else-is-nervous-about-brawl-potentially-sucking.97393/

 

[SuperHyperMegaTurbo]

I knew that there was no vertical VI, and a combination of VI and DI for horizontal, so I was always confused why people said that VI was gone entirely... however, I didn't know DI could kill you earlier in scenarios where it would have been the best choice before! I thought you could use either DI or VI, or both, but now I know that VI gets much, much better the more horizontal the knockback! Excellent explanation!

 

[Squiiidzoid]

It's typically better to DI in the direction where the distance to the Blast Zone is longer. In your example, it's better to DI away from Fox.

do you mean towards fox? Are you sure i shouldn't just DI left?

 

[QuadraSlashe]

How did Vertical Vectoring work before? Would someone mind sending me a link of some kind?

 

[NachoOfCheese]

It is not even that complicated, and I don't know where do you get the preconceived notion that this interposes into the idea of making Smash a game that appeals to everyone. But by all means, keep being an arrogant twit.

It was a joke.
But by all means, keep that pole up your butt.

 

[Squiiidzoid]

How did Vertical Vectoring work before? Would someone mind sending me a link of some kind?

The way it worked before was if you got sent upwards, then you hold straight down, and if you get sent right then you hold left.
However, the way it works now is that if you get sent upwards, then you hold to the side. If you get sent to the right then you hold left like before.

 

[TDobbs7]

so if i get hit to the right by a fox, do i DI 100% left, or towards fox?

do you mean towards fox? Are you sure i shouldn't just DI left?

No, it's really answered by math. How familiar are you with geometry?

EDIT: Nevermind that. Just know that by DI-ing towards Fox, you make it your trip to the blast zone a straight line. By going away from Fox, you make your trip diagonal. A straight line is always shorter than a diagonal line when they start at the same point and their second points have the same x or y value. In your situation, the lines will have the same starting point (you getting hit by Fox) and end with the same y value (the blast zone edge). This means, by travelling diagonally, your character has a longer distance to travel before hitting the blast zone, making it more likely to survive.

 

[ssbMars]

Here's the "What if brawl ends up sucking" thread if you're curious :

http://smashboards.com/threads/who-else-is-nervous-about-brawl-potentially-sucking.97393/

Wow dude you predicted it to the T. It's kinda sad looking back and seeing the people who said "I trust Nintendo", then got completely let down by Brawl's release.

Then there's the guy who said "I don't see wavedashing as being that important, maybe it's because I can't do it, but even if wavedashing is out I'm sure it won't impact that game negatively as much as you think it would."
Kinda funny because it ended up impacting the game like no other.
Then there were people who said that it would suck if it was just Melee with better graphics and more characters. But when it comes down to it, Project M is just Melee with better graphics and more characters. And it's become the most popular and loved Brawl mod ever made.

Well, I'm ridiculously off-topic, but yolo amiright?

 

[Squiiidzoid]

No, it's really answered by math. How familiar are you with geometry?

EDIT: Nevermind that. Just know that by DI-ing towards Fox, you make it your trip to the blast zone a straight line. By going away from Fox, you make your trip diagonal. A straight line is always shorter than a diagonal line when they start at the same point and their second points have the same x or y value. In your situation, the lines will have the same starting point (you getting hit by Fox) and end with the same y value (the blast zone edge). This means, by travelling diagonally, your character has a longer distance to travel before hitting the blast zone, making it more likely to survive.

no, your talking about conventional DI, in the video they explained that it uses Vectoring for getting hit sideways, therefore holding away from fox or up or towards the blastzone are all suicide. I'm asking, say fox hits me to the right at a slightly high angle, to survive longer do i hold towards fox or directly left?

 

[jashley21]

Proper DI in Smash is important across all titles and can mean the difference between death or surviving to get a few more hits in. DI has been a bit confusing in Smash 4 however, with a new system dubbed "Vectoring" being used at one point, and changes being made during patches after release. This had lead to the accidental spread of misinformation on how DI actually works in Smash 4. VaBengal has created a video to finally set the record straight and help players properly DI.

To see more content from VaBengal check out his Youtube channel. Hopefully this video helped players understand DI within Smash 4 and can finally make it clear to all how DI works in Smash 4.

SmashCapps found the video very informative! DI over to Twitter and follow @Smashcapps.

thank you for the clarification much appreciated

 

[ssbMars]

no, your talking about conventional DI, in the video they explained that it uses Vectoring for getting hit sideways, therefore holding away from fox or up or towards the blastzone are all suicide. I'm asking, say fox hits me to the right at a slightly high angle, to survive longer do i hold towards fox or directly left?

No, you hold away from fox if you're hit at a high angle. If you're smashed at a dominantly horizontal angle, you pull towards the direction of the stage.
If you're smashed into a 45° angle, you're already travelling in the optimal direction, and should just vector towards the stage.

 

[misterOWAIN33]

@ Remzi Since I found you on SmashBoards, just wanted to say thanks for the awesome video!

 

[Remzi]

@ Remzi Since I found you on SmashBoards, just wanted to say thanks for the awesome video!

You are very welcome, thanks for the compliment!

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

View attachment 51246
It was a joke.
But by all means, keep that pole up your butt.

No, I wasn't aware it was joke. Because of Poe's Law.

 

[jayeldeee]

I like the paintings in the beginning :3

But in all seriousness, this is some good stuff to know. Thank you! <3

 

[Squiiidzoid]

No, you hold away from fox if you're hit at a high angle. If you're smashed at a dominantly horizontal angle, you pull towards the direction of the stage.
If you're smashed into a 45° angle, you're already travelling in the optimal direction, and should just vector towards the stage.

ok thanks. If i get sent straight up at a small angle, should i DI directly to the left or at a right angle to my trajectory? And if i get sent to the right with only a small angle, do i vector towards who hit me, or completely left?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Technically yes, that's smash DI by a different name and no.

SDI/Tap DI is so weak that you may as well not bother doing it because you'll never avoid the last hit of a move unless a character with an infinite jab keeps holding the A button.

This is a major misconception almost as bad as the DI misconceptions this video clears up. SDI lets you avoid tons of multi-hit stuff in this game still; stuff like Boost Kick is often unreliable if the victim uses SDI, and many rapid jabs can have the finisher dodged even if A is not held at all. You can actually stack with the increased knockback on horizontal moves from holding up; wiggle between up and an upward diagonal and tons of stuff combos against floaties quite poorly as you get SDI inputs and the "hold up to increase the horizontal component of knockback" effect. Not understanding this is why many people believed that Link had a jab infinite pre-patch (he didn't) or that Fox still can do jab infinites across the stage (he can't, though he can link several reps). Just holding up or down for the aSDI plus the additional (or reduced) horizontal knockback gets out of a ton of stuff too even if you don't want to mash so hard as to SDI well. SDI is a tiny fraction as strong as it was in Brawl, but it's still plenty big enough to make a really huge difference.

The overall final thumb rule seems clear. Against kill moves, hold either left or right all the time depending on direction (toward the stage for horizontal kills, away from the attacker for vertical kills). Against combo moves wiggle the stick either up or down (between pure up/down and one of the diagonals) depending on how you plan to get out. If you get launched right at the corner with a kill move, hold down (this is actually really rare but does happen sometimes).

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Yeah SDI can help escape Luigi's D-throw to cyclone. If you don't get out, however, it's still very useful because it forces the luigi to mash b at a slower rate, which puts you closer to the ground at the final hit. Don't underestimate SDI just because it's less crazy than Brawl where pretty much anything with more than one hit was escapable except Mach Tornado.

 

[Omegascizor456]

This is especially interesting considering the fact that this is probably one of if not the most important techs people need to know when playing SM4SH competitevely

 

[epic11]

Why is this complicated? He just explained everything lol.

 

[TDobbs7]

do you mean towards fox? Are you sure i shouldn't just DI left?

Nevermind that

no, your talking about conventional DI, in the video they explained that it uses Vectoring for getting hit sideways, therefore holding away from fox or up or towards the blastzone are all suicide. I'm asking, say fox hits me to the right at a slightly high angle, to survive longer do i hold towards fox or directly left?

My apologies. I misunderstood.

According to the Vectoring principle, you always point towards the stage. Since vertical Vectoring has been taken out (apparently), you hold straight left. If it was still in the game, you would hold towards Fox. That's my understanding of it

 

[TDobbs7]

Why is this complicated? He just explained everything lol.

You and I are on the same page

 

[LimitCrown]

If we knew exactly how DI in Smash 4 worked, then it wouldn't be as confusing as it is now.

 

[Arc Quilava]

I've actually been looking for exactly this, so thanks! The weird part is... I've actually been doing this the whole time and was trying to teach myself to do things the "right" way. So I think this new way might actually be most intuitive for new players, and I think that's what they were going for.

 

[Gamefreak561]

To sum it all up. Vectoring helps when you are being knocked vertically and DI for being knocked horizantally correct? If so then this whole new mechanic is alot easier than some people say it isnt.

 

[misterOWAIN33]

To sum it all up. Vectoring helps when you are being knocked vertically and DI for being knocked horizantally correct? If so then this whole new mechanic is alot easier than some people say it isnt.

Opposite. DI for vertical knock-back, vector for horizontal.

 

[GopherHat]

It has to be complicated because Smash must appeal to all people. If it's confusing and complicated to everyone then there will be no gap between skilled and unskilled players. Sakurai logic.

until people figure it out and everyone gets good. But yeah the logic I see in this is that people used to both would have an equal advantage and there would be an equal playing field

 

[Kirbymeister]

well this is...confusing.
so, if I'm hit horizontal, I D.I/Vector towards the stage, like in SSB64.
but then, if I'm hit vertically, I D.I...away? how does that work?

 

[b2jammer]

well this is...confusing.
so, if I'm hit horizontal, I D.I/Vector towards the stage, like in SSB64.
but then, if I'm hit vertically, I D.I...away? how does that work?

Very confusing, for sure. When launched vertically, Melee/Brawl DI takes effect, which is where you hold away from the stage to get to the nearest corner. By veering towards a corner, you move farther away from the blast line, reducing your chances of getting KO'd.
When launched horizontally, however, Smash 4 VI has a greater influence, so you hold towards the stage to reduce your launch speed and thus veer away from the blast line.
SAKURAI! (And I thought random tripping in Brawl was confusing...)