Seriously guys, how are you all having trouble doing combos?

[LavisFiend]

I dunno, maybe it just comes natural to me because I didn't really get into the whole tech game and played raw and bare for the majority of my melee lifespan, but seriously...

I really don't want to offend anybody here, but if you can't string together 3-4 moves, there is just something....WRONG with you...

You press a button, press another button, jump, press another button, etc.

Obviously it is not that simple, but it is just a simple readjustment people. I am serious. Set them up for a combo, don't expect to follow through all over the place. Bread and butter combo set up then get in the air and smash the living hell out of them. There is nothing to it. I use OLIMAR for crying out loud; he THROWS his moves. -_-

There is NO excuse people. Don't blame the physics; blame yourself for not breaking old habits. It is REALLY not that hard, and I fail to see how people can be so...what's the word.... Inefficient at stringing together moves. Seriously guys...

If I can do it with Olimar, Diddy, Ness (as floaty as the little turd is) and Pikachu....you should be able to as well.

On a side note. I go in the Wi-Fi menu, and I don't even get the options button. What the hell is going on? =/

I want Nintendo to send me free crap, but the option button is not even on the screen. Just with friends and with anyone. Help me out.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol.

If you are chaining together non-standard A combos then it's not a true combo.

Go to practice mode with Shiek and do f-tilts in a row. If you look at the consectutive hits counter it never goes past one.

That's just one example of course.

You really can't combo in Brawl besides natural strings.

It's not that people don't know how to string hits together. Its just that the engine doesn't allow for custom combos due to very low stun time.

That's all.

 

[Zankoku]

Are your friends unable to press this button labeled "X" while you're busy "comboing" them?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

3-4 whole moves!? Did you hurt yourself? [sarcasm alert for the stupid]

Seriously dude, combos are going to be harder in Brawl simply because of the gravity and DI alone.

There's nothing wrong with that. We'll just have to learn new tricks to comboing.

 

[boxelder]

Maybe some of you wise ***** should go on Youtube and download some combo videos. You might see how wrong you are, and how stupid you look.

 

[LavisFiend]

lol.

If you are chaining together non-standard A combos then it's not a true combo.

Go to practice mode with Shiek and do f-tilts in a row. If you look at the consectutive hits counter it never goes past one.

That's just one example of course.

You really can't combo in Brawl besides natural strings.

It's not that people don't know how to string hits together. Its just that the engine doesn't allow for custom combos due to very low stun time.

That's all.

Combo has more than one definition my friend. The big thing is that a combo is a linking of moves, no matter what the game may register it as.

After all, when you are playing against your friends, you don't have a big HUD registering your "combos." Which brings me to my next question.

If you were to do a combo in training mode, then translate it to an actual fight with friends, then, going by the logic that the game recognizes certain attacks as a combo chain only through the training mode, how can you say that the combo you are doing in an actual match is a real "combo," seeing as how a real combo, in your words, is defined by what the game recognizes as such? After all, with no way of the game to remind you are doing a combo, then how can you say your mimic of a combo is an actual authentic one?

I am just saying using the ol', "if training doesen't recognize it as a combo, it is not a combo" is a silly argument. A combo is a combination of moves. That is the universal look of it, and that is how it always will be.

Regardless of whether or not the game throws the yellow flag and says, "NOT A COMBO BY MAI STANDURDS LOL" doesen't make any less of your juggling attacks a combo. It is still a combo, because you are owning them move after move. =P

 

[kitsuneboy_geoff]

lol.

If you are chaining together non-standard A combos then it's not a true combo.

Go to practice mode with Shiek and do f-tilts in a row. If you look at the consectutive hits counter it never goes past one.

That's just one example of course.

You really can't combo in Brawl besides natural strings.

It's not that people don't know how to string hits together. Its just that the engine doesn't allow for custom combos due to very low stun time.

That's all.

Just a question... Does it make any difference? These 'natural strings' can be ridiculously hard to escape if you're good at them. They act in the same way 'true' combos do, so why get caught up in definitions?

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Maybe some of you wise ***** should go on Youtube and download some combo videos. You might see how wrong you are, and how stupid you look.

You think anyone on SmashBoards wasn't looking at Youtube during the wait until the 9th?

Honestly?


And I've seen a few. They're mostly crap. Making a combo video after only a month with the game is just douchebaggery anyway.

 

[LavisFiend]

Are your friends unable to press this button labeled "X" while you're busy "comboing" them?

What a pathetic way to try and start crap.

Your key to salvation is but a little red box with an X in it right in the top right corner of your window.

 

[Zankoku]

Just a question... Does it make any difference? These 'natural strings' can be ridiculously hard to escape if you're good at them. They act in the same way 'true' combos do, so why get caught up in definitions?

Natural strings like multiple jabs? Or maybe Ivysaur's Bullet Seed? Those are as much "true combos" as hitting the "fast punch" button repeatedly on any regular 2D fighter is.

Combos prevent response from the opponent. In Brawl, if your opponent actually knows how to play the game, you'll rarely ever get more than two consecutive hits on him or her at a time.

What a pathetic way to try and start crap.

Your key to salvation is but a little red box with an X in it right in the top right corner of your window.

What a great way to answer my question, wise guy. So tell me, do your opponents actually make any attempts to get out of these so-called "combos" besides holding the control stick in a single direction and waiting for you to stop attacking in their direction?

 

[boxelder]

Trolling on a forum and complaining about problems that don't exist is doucebaggery, I'll take a combo video over that any day. It's funny because there' actually videos of Mikey L. comboing Ankoku to death with peach and he still thinks they don't exist. Those who can, do, those who can't lose.

 

[Zankoku]

Mikey Lenetia didn't combo me much, if at all. If you can point out to me where he actually lands multiple hits without giving me a chance to respond, I'd much appreciate it. I ought to know, I've played against Mikey in both Brawl and Melee, and his Peach was much less forgiving against me in Melee - mostly because I couldn't jump/airdodge/aerial/shield my way out of anything when he was killing me, which I very much could in Brawl.

 

[LavisFiend]

Natural strings like multiple jabs? Or maybe Ivysaur's Bullet Seed? Those are as much "true combos" as hitting the "fast punch" button repeatedly on any regular 2D fighter is.

Combos prevent response from the opponent. In Brawl, if your opponent actually knows how to play the game, you'll rarely ever get more than two consecutive hits on him or her at a time.



What a great way to answer my question, wise guy. So tell me, do your opponents actually make any attempts to get out of these so-called "combos" besides holding the control stick in a single direction and waiting for you to stop attacking in their direction?

If you are implying that they are clueless when it comes to DI and Teching, then no. They do DI. That is what I am talking about. I don't say "combo" in the sense that I just stand there and repeat the same move over and over and they take it without trying to fight back. That is my point in it's entirety. They DO try to fight back, I DO string together different attacks in a single fall/single stationery/single running motion, and they DO try to get out of it through DI, but to no avail.

To simply assume that just because your name is blue and mine is yellow that I am the one who is ill knowledged in these kinds of things has to be the most arrogant and aggravating things I have ever come across.

It is very pathetic to assume things about people simply because you got butthurt over what someone said from personal hands on experience. You came off as elitist, and for that, I can't stand you. Next time you want to discuss something, keep your ego at the door. There are others who play this game and know a thing or too as well.

 

[kitsuneboy_geoff]

Natural strings like multiple jabs? Or maybe Ivysaur's Bullet Seed? Those are as much "true combos" as hitting the "fast punch" button repeatedly on any regular 2D fighter is.

Combos prevent response from the opponent. In Brawl, if your opponent actually knows how to play the game, you'll rarely ever get more than two consecutive hits on him or her at a time.

Yes! A respectful and intelligent response! ~.^

Anyway, I'd have to disagree with you there. I'm not talking about jabs or Bullet Seed. I'm talking about, well, with my main (Pikachu), going from an up-smash to two consecutive u-airs, to an n-air or f-air. It's not foolproof, but, at lower damage, it's really hard to escape if the person launching it knows what they're doing. The floatiness allows you to stay in the position you want to be relative to your opponent, no matter the situation, and the only way to be sure of escaping is by launching a counter attack. And, if you're fast enough, the target won't get the chance.

I think people just have to stop playing the game as melee and adopt some new stragagies.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Let me break it down.

If someone can get out of your combo then it isn't a combo.

There is no other definition ok?

A combo is a string of consectutive hits. That's it.

In brawl when you hit someone about 99% of the time they can airdodge or hit you back.

The other 1% of the time pertains to the few characters that can string attacks like Lucario with his Fairs or natural combo stringd like Marth's dancing blade.

But there are no huge 0 to 80% combos in this game.

And with that, I will no longer respond to this thread.

Instead I will lurk and laugh until it gets locked.

Because you know it will be.

 

[XtremeCJ]

Finally some real discussion about Brawl! :D

Game mechanicas are different, that's clear. But making combos became more challenging. It's because it's easier to escape combos. If you hit someone a few times, then punch him in the air and following right up, there's already a chance he can escape. Isn't the fun of making combos to read your opponents moves, counter or dodge them and hit right back?
To me, a combo isn't an attack that continuously hits the enemy without him getting a chance to survive. A combo is to land hits in a row pretty fast, even if the enemy is able to move. You can even use his escaping for another hit.

For example:
Pikachu dealt a lot of damage to some other dude, let's say Sonic. Pikachu does his down+A smash causing Sonic to fly away a bit. Pikachu runs after him, but instead of hitting him again instantely, he waits til Sonic gets up, dodges it if he's using an attack to do this, and uses up+A smash to send him up high. Of course every fighter will try to get out of the spot above Pikachu by going to the one of the sides. Pikachu can quickly move to the site his enemy tries to escape and use his thunder, hitting the enemy. This is what I call a combo. The enemy has the chance to escape, but at the same time has a hard time to do so.

btw, how about those two lovebirds [LavisFiend + Ankoku] make an online match to prove each other wrong? And while you're at it, let me join to show you who's the real boss lol. Hope you get the irony.

//EDIT

@kitsuneboy_geoff: Pikachu rockz! Combo machine ftw! You're my man! :D

 

[bugmenot]

ITT people fail to differentiate between 'combos' and 'followups'.

 

[A New England Winter]

I did a combo yesterday, actually. Toon Link did two uptilts, two back airs, down air for spike. It was beautiful.

 

[Ryan-K]

Spam air dodge and I guarantee you'll escape a majority of combos in this game.

 

[Zankoku]

The online is atrocious, lol. Hopefully Nintendo will notice and get some more servers to work for us. And as for DI and teching, that's the least of what you can do in Brawl. Try "attacking out of any possible attempt to combo one hit into another," for starters.

There is VERY limited comboing in this game, largely based on DI altering knockback to become straight upward so that you can actually catch up to them before they jump out/attack out/airdodge out of the hitstun. Other than that, it's all just about punishing reactions. It's almost like a game based entirely around tech-chasing.

And since LavisFiend feels I'm not giving him proper respect or something, I'll give him my full attention this time.

If you are implying that they are clueless when it comes to DI and Teching, then no. They do DI.

You're talking about Melee, when DIing meant the difference between getting combo'd and not getting combo'd. In Brawl, DI mostly only means the difference between getting sent outward weakly and getting KO'd by a death trajectory.

That is what I am talking about. I don't say "combo" in the sense that I just stand there and repeat the same move over and over and they take it without trying to fight back. That is my point in it's entirety.

I didn't say nor imply this at all, so don't even bother bringing it up.

They DO try to fight back, I DO string together different attacks in a single fall/single stationery/single running motion, and they DO try to get out of it through DI, but to no avail.

And this is my point. They're trying to get out of it through DI alone, which is clearly not the only option available to them in Brawl. They can hit you back because they recover in the air too quickly, or they can just airdodge if your attacks have more priority/range.

To simply assume that just because your name is blue and mine is yellow that I am the one who is ill knowledged in these kinds of things has to be the most arrogant and aggravating things I have ever come across.

To assume I'm talking to you as though I'm paying attention to your name or post count is extremely stupid and I advise that you don't bring some false sense of discrimination into this topic.

It is very pathetic to assume things about people simply because you got butthurt over what someone said from personal hands on experience.

It's also arrogant to assume that you're somehow doing combos right and everyone else is doing it wrong. If you're trying, I'm trying, and we're all trying, I wonder what's making you succeed where EVERYONE ELSE IS NOT?

You came off as elitist, and for that, I can't stand you. Next time you want to discuss something, keep your ego at the door. There are others who play this game and know a thing or too as well.

Way to call the kettle black, pot.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

ITT people fail to differentiate between 'combos' and 'followups'.

I like this post.

 

[Reynbo]

if you've ever played any other fighting game a combo is a string of attacks that the opponent CAN'T escape

 

[LuLLo]

First, ''Combo'' just means ''Combination'', it's a COMBINATION of attacks strung together, so it isn't exactly like ''Consecutive Hits'', because THAT'S what you can see in Training Mode, it doesn't say COMBO in the window...

Second, a Combo can also be like this: Captain Falcon does n-air, up-air, n-air, waits for his opponent to jump and then punishes him with a knee...the opponent wasn't able to escape, since Captain Falcon predicted his jump and thus he was doomed, you could call that a combo, just a combination of moves strung together to finish your opponent...

Third, LavisFiend, you can talk as much as you like, but without some video-proof of you playing, people won't be buying your smart-talk, just put up a video if you want everyone to shut up.

Fourth, I just noticed this little sentence which annoyed me more than you can imagine...

''I really don't want to offend anybody here, but if you can't string together 3-4 moves, there is just something....WRONG with you...''

Saying that something is wrong with all people who can't string together attacks or push buttons is generalising, and since you like to discuss, let me tell you something about discussions.....

YOU DON'T GENERALISE IN DISCUSSIONS!!
YOU DON'T OFFEND ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO (according to you) ARE ALL THE SAME!!
YOU DON'T CALL PEOPLE WRONG JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN'T DO SOMETHING YOU CAN!!

You just keep on talking and talking and point out peoples' mistakes, while you are the only one who is just plain wrong here, and you're the one who started to discriminate in this thread...

Everywhere, and I mean EVERYWHERE I see you on the forums, you do this, you always put people down, start with some REAL discussion for a change and stop acting like you are superior!!

 

[Yuna]

First, ''Combo'' just means ''Combination'', it's a COMBINATION of attacks strung together, so it isn't exactly like ''Consecutive Hits'', because THAT'S what you can see in Training Mode, it doesn't say COMBO in the window...

Not when it comes to fighting games, it doesn't. In fighting games, a combo must be a string of hits that are inescapable.

Second, a Combo can also be like this: Captain Falcon does n-air, up-air, n-air, waits for his opponent to jump and then punishes him with a knee...the opponent wasn't able to escape, since Captain Falcon predicted his jump and thus he was doomed, you could call that a combo, just a combination of moves strung together to finish your opponent...

The opponent predicted Captain Falcon's followup wrong. That's not being unable to escape. Because of CF predicts it wrong, then he won't be able to combo. Also, does not work in Brawl. N-air has been nerfed... badly.

Most 2nd jumps are also much higher now, people can move much earlier after getting hit and there are almost no low-knockback moves that allow for long combos anymore. No, everything you just said was wrong.

Please stop assuming that the competitive Smashers who know what they're talking about is wrong because you're employing the wrong definition of the word "combo".

Third, LavisFiend, you can talk as much as you like, but without some video-proof of you playing, people won't be buying your smart-talk, just put up a video if you want everyone to shut up.

Won't happen because what he says cannot be done.

 

[ChrisLionheart]

Brawl requires a different play-style from melee. You have to watch what you throw out more than you did in melee. A whiff in this game is really bad, especially for an aerial because you can't just cancel it when you land. A lot more improvisation has to go into Brawl because not every move will chain into another one like clockwork. You have to earn your combos by being creative and anticipating what your opponent will do next. If you want a game where comboing is just a matter of initializing a launcher, you should play some of dat mvc2, tekken, or guilty gear.

 

[Evil E.]

I love this thread.
Brawl is full of combos: consecutive moves possibly killing your oppenent.
if you can't do the combos dont complain. You can still do these combos but they are nothing like melee you just have to basically chase your oppenent because they fly off too quickly.
PIKACHU IS SIICK WITH DAH COMBOS!

 

[LuLLo]

Not when it comes to fighting games, it doesn't. In fighting games, a combo must be a string of hits that are inescapable.


The opponent predicted Captain Falcon's followup wrong. That's not being unable to escape. Because of CF predicts it wrong, then he won't be able to combo. Also, does not work in Brawl. N-air has been nerfed... badly.

Most 2nd jumps are also much higher now, people can move much earlier after getting hit and there are almost no low-knockback moves that allow for long combos anymore. No, everything you just said was wrong.

Please stop assuming that the competitive Smashers who know what they're talking about is wrong because you're employing the wrong definition of the word "combo".


Won't happen because what he says cannot be done.

Yeah I THOUGHT I knew the definition of Combo, didn't mean to imply it as the truth....

And IF C.Falcon predicted it wrong it wouldn't be a combo, but he DID, so doesn't that count as a combo??

Also, I just made an example (a ''what if'') of a ''combo'' with C.Falcon, I didn't mean Brawl specifically as I know that it's not possible...

Also, I don't say that ''The Competitive Smashers who know what they're talking about'' are wrong, yes, I apparantly did make a mistake with the definition of ''Combo'', I'm sorry, I just posted my opinion and that's legal on the internet. (and yes, I could have implied more that it was my opinion instead writing it down as a fact)...

But I apparantly fail to see where I stated that ALL competitive smashers are wrong, maybe you didn't read my post through so well, but I'm not that kind of low-life who needs to put other people down just to feel better at life (let alone whole masses of people).

And if LavisFiend claims something which cannot be done, why is this thread still open then?

 

[Yuna]

And IF C.Falcon predicted it wrong it wouldn't be a combo, but he DID, so doesn't that count as a combo??

It's not a combo if you have to stop and predict something and it's easily escapable. It's not even about prediction in Brawl anymore. If you, at any time, stop for a moment, they will escape. Because there's just that little hitstun.

And if LavisFiend claims something which cannot be done, why is this thread still open then?

Because people are busy refuting him or agreeing with him while the mods aren't omnipresent.

 

[Koga]

haha, I love how now that the game is out and people besides most of the negatives on this board have their hands on the game, the goal posts of the debats keep changing. First you can't combo because of hitstun and knockback, now you can't combo because a combo has to be "inescapable". and then someone said that DI is how you escaped combo's In melee!XD geeze, you guys are rediculous.

 

[TZMurakumo]

This is actually my first post here. I' just started playing with some friends here in Japan since I'm stuck in the countryside far away from any decent arcade with any decent competition for my normal games (2D fighters and Tekken 6). I'm getting murdered, not that any of us are great players, and thought I'd pop on here (heard about it from MattD years back... we both played Tekken but then he stopped playing T4 for the original Smash).

Anywho, just adding my two cents, but in other games' terminology, combos are not escapable... once the first hit connects, the rest is guaranteed. If they can pop out in different ways you have a mindgame, attempt to mixup (picking one of various options) and reset them (succesfully hitting them... resetting the combo counter).

So at least as far as every single other fighter ever made goes, as far as terminology among knowledgeable players.
Combo = guaranteed from the first hit
Mindgame (just that... which way do you think I'll go...)
Mixup = a couple options which are hard to read and can separately take care of various opponent reactions
Reset = (resetting the combo counter) Successfully re-hitting (and thus in other games starting a new combo) after the original combo has been dropped

Again, I'm not trying to piss anyone off or anything, but those terms are used widely across pretty much all other fighters... some more and some less than others, just depending on each game's combo system (a game with low emphasis on combos might refer to mixups more and resets less, for example).

 

[Razorsaw]

I'm trying to understand the argument here.

You can't get a situation where combos are inescapable, right?

That just sounds like it's forcing you to be more intelligent; use moves in ways that aren't handed to you by the mechanics of the game...

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I'm trying to understand the argument here.

You can't get a situation where combos are inescapable, right?

That just sounds like it's forcing you to be more intelligent; use moves in ways that aren't handed to you by the mechanics of the game...

If nothing combos, how are you forced to be more intelligent and use moves the right way, when anything you do, it can be escaped? Please, tell me. How?

 

[Razorsaw]

Okay, let me ask a question. Can you still hit people? Can you recover? Can you do a myriad of other things?

I'm not certain I can believe it's impossible to use a move strategically. Why not use your attacks to build a situation that hurts the opponent?

I know it's not a "true" combo, but this struck me as the kind of thing I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-doGSWl76g

I'm not trying to belittle anyone here, but again, this is an effort to understand and see if I can't argue a point. I mean, if it gets the job done...

 

[Jonkku]

You can call me clueless, but my definition of a combo, is landing multiple hits, before you get hit back, whether or not the opponent has a possibility to escape.. In every fighting came I play, that's the meaning of a combo to me.
And no, I haven't played Brawl yet.

 

[shadydentist]

In most fighting games, combos are a reward you get for when your opponent makes a mistake. In brawl, all you get is maybe one or two hits off, before either your opponent flies too far to combo, or his hitstun ends and you need to start defending again.

 

[Koga]

another problem with this argument is the fact that all its proponents pretend that you can't hit back. Sure you hit them then they recover before you can it them again and they hit you, so hit them back!!! whats so hard about that, so what you hit them they hit you back, do you just put your controller down at that point? geez

 

[Razorsaw]

I'm... not seeing why getting a reward is necessarily better for all involved, yet. And that's not even taking into account an opponent's reflexes or reaction time.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Back to the original argument..

OP, you're obviously going to start **** with a post like this, jsut getting that out there.

Also, I agree. If you can't combo anyone past 3 moves you really aren't grasping the more hardcore part of the game. I've been playing Brawl now and I can combo pretty good. It's all about being comfortable with your character and knowing your opponent.

Also, why was this thread started? It seems useless IMO. Guess I'm just feuling the fire, but oh wellz lolol

 

[Kirby M.D.]

This is actually my first post here. I' just started playing with some friends here in Japan since I'm stuck in the countryside far away from any decent arcade with any decent competition for my normal games (2D fighters and Tekken 6). I'm getting murdered, not that any of us are great players, and thought I'd pop on here (heard about it from MattD years back... we both played Tekken but then he stopped playing T4 for the original Smash).

Anywho, just adding my two cents, but in other games' terminology, combos are not escapable... once the first hit connects, the rest is guaranteed. If they can pop out in different ways you have a mindgame, attempt to mixup (picking one of various options) and reset them (succesfully hitting them... resetting the combo counter).

So at least as far as every single other fighter ever made goes, as far as terminology among knowledgeable players.
Combo = guaranteed from the first hit
Mindgame (just that... which way do you think I'll go...)
Mixup = a couple options which are hard to read and can separately take care of various opponent reactions
Reset = (resetting the combo counter) Successfully re-hitting (and thus in other games starting a new combo) after the original combo has been dropped

Again, I'm not trying to piss anyone off or anything, but those terms are used widely across pretty much all other fighters... some more and some less than others, just depending on each game's combo system (a game with low emphasis on combos might refer to mixups more and resets less, for example).

Listen to this man. There are very few guaranteed combos in Brawl. There are mixups, blockstrings, chains (a series of moves that, while not guaranteed, are difficult to get out of/prevent), and linking (Hyphen smash/Jab fake/etc). The terms are kinda wonky, but there is the ability to chain moves together. That's all we need, that's all other fighters get by on. (Street Fighter 2T/KOF 98 anyone?) We need a general termlist very soon, these misunderstanding threads are moider.

 

[Yuna]

haha, I love how now that the game is out and people besides most of the negatives on this board have their hands on the game, the goal posts of the debats keep changing. First you can't combo because of hitstun and knockback, now you can't combo because a combo has to be "inescapable". and then someone said that DI is how you escaped combo's In melee!XD geeze, you guys are rediculous.

O... K...

1) We're still saying that you cannot combo because of hitstun and knockback. Why are they escapable (i.e. not inescapable)? Because of low hitstun and the new knockback system which has a lot of knockback even at lower %s to prevent comboing (yet you still need a lot of damage to die).

Of course you could DI out of combos in Melee. It's just that it's much easier to do it in Brawl not because of the new freeze frame, hitstun, DI and knockback systems.

Have you played the game? I keep saying you making outlandish posts that are quasi-trolly.