[Serious] Tier list (order of characters only, Dreamland-based)

[KoRoBeNiKi]

You the same Snorlax from Canada right? I've seen you on ybombb's stream, right?

 

[Komotonoto]

Smashboards: Komotonoto
Tournament name: Komotonoto
1. Yoshi
2. Yoshi
3. Yoshi
4. Yoshi
5. Yoshi
6. Yoshi
7. Yoshi
8. Yoshi
9. Yoshi
10. Yoshi
11. Yoshi
12. Yoshi

 

[SSBPete]

Pete

1. Pika
2. Kirby
3. Falcon
4. Jiggs
5. Yoshi
6. Fox
7. Mario
8. Link
9. DK
10. Samus
11. Ness
12. Luigi

 

[Technical_Knockout]

technical_knockout

dreamland-only, tournament-rules-geared tier list based on what I believe to be the true potential of each character with maxed-out, tas-level metagame development & no errors (the 'real' tier list):

1. fox
2. ness
3. yoshi
4. pika
5. link
6. falcon
7. kirby
8. luigi
9. jiggs
10. mario
11. samus
12. dk

note that the infinite up + b edge STALL is just that & would be punished accordingly in a tournament setting, else pika would naturally be #1 on this list.

 

[The Star King]

All of the "theoretical perfection" lists are really silly and are totally meaningless to the real, human-played metagame.

This is why you should've defined what kind of tier list you're looking for in the OP, Koro.

I really don't think such lists should be accepted.

 

[Morin0]

u saying Fox shouldn't be 2nd, below Pikachu and above Kirby?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

technical_knockout

dreamland-only, tournament-rules-geared tier list based on what I believe to be the true potential of each character with maxed-out, tas-level metagame development & no errors (the 'real' tier list):

1. fox
2. ness
3. yoshi
4. pika
5. link
6. falcon
7. kirby
8. luigi
9. jiggs
10. mario
11. samus
12. dk

note that the infinite up + b edge STALL is just that & would be punished accordingly in a tournament setting, else pika would naturally be #1 on this list.

Tier lists come from an actual tournament perspective. It's hard to claim that any character of the top 4 are absolutely better as all of them have dumb TAS techniques. Also, with perfect timing, Pikachu's Up B is unpunishable.

Also, no errors means you wouldn't ever be hit, as in the tier list goes:
1. Which person literally dies first (as there is no timer)
2. Characters
3. Something else that doesn't matter.

There are so many factors in a TAS style game that this type of list is not calculable. I mean, also, is Dreamland only the TAS argument or would Peach's be more common due to Ledge drop combos?

I'd highly prefer a more proper list, for now I'm not including your response.

@ Komotonoto , actual list, please. For now, I'm only putting Yoshi as 12th for you, in spite.

 

[SnorIax]

You the same Snorlax from Canada right? I've seen you on ybombb's stream, right?

You know it darling, I have a couple of roommates that would contribute to the tier list. I will get Mohinder and Sax to contribute their's as well

Jiggly:

1. Fox
2. Kirby
3. Pikachu
4. Falcon
5. Jiggly
6. Yoshi
7. Mario
8. DK
9. Samus
10. Ness
11. Luigi
12. Link

Autobahn:

1. Pikachu
2. Kirby
3. Fox
4. Jigglypuff
5. Ness
6. Yoshi
7. Falcon
8. Samus
9. Luigi
10. Mario
11. Link
12. DK

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

We're missing one major Canadian here it seems. @SuPeRbOoM also @JaimeHR as well.

I might be ending this at 100, also take this discussion to other threads lol

 

[Olikus]

this list has waaaay to many random's list and very few proffesional players list. Either wait til good players post, or dont post a tier list at all.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

did you even try my way and compare or did you just see my first post on here and hop into elitist mode? let's take a poll if you wanna keep arguing about it without testing for yourself.

Mind posting in the other thread, please. You can discuss whatever the hell you want, just use the other thread. http://smashboards.com/threads/tier-list-discussion-as-apexs-interesting-top-8-is-over.389468

@ Olikus I said maybe for a reason.

 

[Technical_Knockout]

sorry koro. hey i apologized to everyone (including sk & you) over at the other thread too.
here's the second tier list that i was talking about planning on writing up (in my second post to this thread).

technical_knockout
sequim, wa (skwim)

dreamland-only tier list:

1. pika
2. kirby
3. falcon
4. yoshi
5. fox
6. jiggs
7. mario
8. luigi
9. dk
10. link
11. ness
12. samus

factors considered were: recovery, gimps, combos, range, speed & power.

 

[swanized]

Tournament name: HandsomeTom

1. pikachu
2. Kirby
3. Fox
4. Falcon
5. Yoshi
6. Puff
7. Mario
8. Samus
9. DK
10. Luigi
11. Link
12. Ness

 

[Kahnu]

I wonder how actual good people rank their tier lists here. Would be interesting to compare a new player's point of view compared to a veteran.
82 lists btw.

 

[pidgezero_one]

ybombb's stream

ಠ_ಠ

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

ಠ_ಠ

DrunKoRo?????


drunkoro

 

[sextc]

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.


The bottom 3-4 are the hardest to order imo.

 

[Kirbstomper]

Kirbstomper
1. Kirby
2. Pikachu
3. Fox
4. Yoshi
5. Falcon
6. Puff
7. Mario
8. Ness
9. Link
10. Luigi
11. Donkey Kong
12. Samus

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Looking for a bit more input before I close this

@SuPeRbOoM @JaimeHR and others

 

[P D]

1. Pika
2. Falcon
3. Fox
4. Kirby
5. Yoshi
6. DK
7. Jiggs
8. Mario
9. samus
10. link
11. ness
12. luigi

 

[William5000000]

I don't play in tournaments, but I do watch them. I used to play in Hyrule Castle a lot back then. Now, I recently started playing in Dream Land more, and I started seeing some major differences for certain characters.

Here is my tier list, based on Dream Land:
1. Pikachu
2. Kirby
3. Fox
4. Captain Falcon
5. Yoshi
6. Jigglypuff
7. Mario
8. Samus
9. Ness
10. Luigi
11. Donkey Kong
12. Link

Samus is apparently better in Dream Land. Not sure about the last 4 characters.

Aside from that, Dream Land seems to be the only stage being played in tournaments now. It stinks, but nothing can be done about it.

 

[Compatible]

Rank every move individually
Rank every recovery height
Rank each recovery distance
Rank Aerial Speed
Rank land speed
Rank every OOS option
Rank every other factor possible...

Then Decide...?

Or just play the game

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Rank every move individually
Rank every recovery height
Rank each recovery distance
Rank Aerial Speed
Rank land speed
Rank every OOS option
Rank every other factor possible...

Then Decide...?

Or just play the game

If you just plan on posting comment such at this, the other thread is more usable. Tier list is not just potential play per character or else as noted Fox/Yoshi/Ness/Pikachu would be by far the best but quite simply, no one plays perfect. You can't judge characters alone.

I mean Ness was considered top 4 several years ago, now he's bottom 4.

 

[Beesy]

Star King sort of rephrased my previous question. What is a tier list? What are we ranking these characters by, aside from "Dreamland only"? Is it potential (star king says no), is it ease of use, is it tournament placing, is it percentage of mains, is it ratio of favorable matchups, is it a combination of these things? I think we're so varied on the answer because of these two mains variables: lack of definition of what a tier list is, and disparity of experience level. We can't fix everyone's experience level for a poll, but we could get a working definition of "tier list."

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Star King sort of rephrased my previous question. What is a tier list? What are we ranking these characters by, aside from "Dreamland only"? Is it potential (star king says no), is it ease of use, is it tournament placing, is it percentage of mains, is it ratio of favorable matchups, is it a combination of these things? I think we're so varied on the answer because of these two mains variables: lack of definition of what a tier list is, and disparity of experience level. We can't fix everyone's experience level for a poll, but we could get a working definition of "tier list."

http://www.ssbwiki.com/tier_list While the wiki is outdated at best, I like their definition of tier list a whole lot. It's a combination of multiple factors, with one the biggest ones being the:

1. Usage of said character in mid-high level tournaments (more high/top for the absolute best characters, like top 5/6 in this game) though this applies more to other games as our community is relatively small/very spread out.
   
2. Matchup spread: If your character sucks vs. any of the top tiers, your character is not that good.
3. The general moveset of said character, the more useful moves, the more possible your character is better in neutral/attacking/defending/recovering. Link/Ness would be pretty good for example, if their recoveries was usable. If Pikachu had either of these recoveries, Pikachu would not be top for example.
   
4. The current potential/metagame

 

[Mr Bushido]

Rank every move individually
Rank every recovery height
Rank each recovery distance
Rank Aerial Speed
Rank land speed
Rank every OOS option
Rank every other factor possible...

Nop

Or just play the game

ye

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Ending this on March _th

 

[Sedda]

wut

koro pls

 

[BananaBolts]

I think he meant May _th

koro pls

 

[Synesthesia]

1. Pikachu
2. Kirby
3. Captain Falcon

4. Yoshi
5. Fox

6. Jigglypuff
7, Mario

8. Samus
9. DK

10. Luigi

11. Ness
12. Link

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

Do you guys even play samus? I'm just saying, I used to main her before I picked up luigi and her matchups where extremly difficult

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Do you guys even play samus? I'm just saying, I used to main her before I picked up luigi and her matchups where extremly difficult

lolwhoops, wrong topic.

I honestly see more Samuses than anyone below her, outside of Firo kicking ass with Ness. The bttom 4 are the bottom 4, in some order.

Also, lolwhoops, wrong topic.

 

[caneut]

Do you guys even play samus? I'm just saying, I used to main her before I picked up luigi and her matchups where extremly difficult

this luigi **** never gets old

 

[Technical_Knockout]

jouske shows the potential for samus & luigi is a scrappy beast... my vote is for synesthesia's tier list (just above) as most accurate for dreamland.

 

[caneut]

jouske shows the potential for samus & luigi is a scrappy beast... my vote is for synesthesia's tier list (just above) as most accurate for dreamland.

Yeah and Isai got 2nd with link in apex 2012, guess we should move link up because of 1 player too.

 

[Technical_Knockout]

yeah you're right isai got SECOND on HYRULE. guess link's a lock on dreamland then huh?

go back to bullying stud caneut you're out of your league with me... i'm articulate enough to make you look silly if you wanna pretend there's bad blood between us.

 

[caneut]

yeah you're right isai got SECOND on HYRULE. guess link's a lock on dreamland then huh?

go back to bullying stud caneut you're out of your league with me... i'm articulate enough to make you look silly if you wanna pretend there's bad blood between us.

one player, let alone who many think is the best player, shouldn't have any effect on this tier list. i think you're misunderstanding the purpose of this tier list.

 

[Sedda]

damn maafia

samus is hella good

edit: almost forgot. luigi is so bad

 

[Technical_Knockout]

scroll up caneut YOU brought isai up.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

this luigi **** never gets old

I don't care where she gets placed, or if luigi gets placed last, it's not like being placed higher gives you buffs. Just saying Samus has some tough matchups and this is coming from some one who dedicated their samus play. Even tho I switched to luigi, I still main samus, and vsing top pika, kirby, falcon, fox and Yoshi players is a giant uphill battle