Sept. 30th Patch Hopes and Predictions

[KenMeister]

I don't know why so much people want they to buff DSmash, that is the last move I want them to mess with....
It is the perfect "get the F* out of here" move, it does it's job really well and I have nothing to complain about it.
I want a reason to use missiles again, I want our charged shot to be fearsome as it once was, I want the bombs to stay longer static at the same place so we can make bomb jump recoveries again....
Our DSmash is doing great.

It's mostly because her dsmash is awful in contrast to most of the cast. Take Mario for example. His is frame 5 and kills around 150-160. Samus' is frame 9 and doesn't even kill past 180. Also, charge shot is fine. It and uair are literally the only moves I don't want touched.

 

[Metallinatus]

It's mostly because her dsmash is awful in contrast to most of the cast. Take Mario for example. His is frame 5 and kills around 150-160. Samus' is frame 9 and doesn't even kill past 180. Also, charge shot is fine. It and uair are literally the only moves I don't want touched.

It is not awful, it is great! It is fast, it cover both sides, it has enough knockback to throw the opponent away, it is a great move!
Plus, if you want something that kills, Samus has more than enough options.
And plus, if you're gonna compare her already great DSmash with someone's similar but better move, then Samus' CS is awful because Shadow Ball.

And it is not awful in contrast to most of the cast, it is the opposite really. Look, when people use DSmash, why do they use that instead of using Up or FSmash? People don't use DSmash because it kills.... it is a nice plus, but F and Up Smash usually does that better anyway. When people use Down Smash, they usually want a fast move that covers both sides to do things like punish rolls or just as a fast option to build space.
Samus' DSmash is one of the BEST for doing that. Do you want something that kills? Samus is full of options to do that.... but her DSmash does the job that a DSmash must do better than most of the DSmashes.

 

[MOM Samus]

I don't know why so much people want they to buff DSmash, that is the last move I want them to mess with....
It is the perfect "get the F* out of here" move, it does it's job really well and I have nothing to complain about it.
I want a reason to use missiles again, I want our charged shot to be fearsome as it once was, I want the bombs to stay longer static at the same place so we can make bomb jump recoveries again....
Our DSmash is doing great.

D-smash needs to be more powerful. It puts people at a terrible angle to recover. It needs to come out faster because it lacks range. And buffed to further put people in that terrible recovery angle.

I don't think moves over 20% should be reflected or absorbed in any fashion. Reflectors are so forcing OP. It's not even funny. It's an effortless kill to hit Down B. I die at 40% at times because of that. Balanced? Bucket is a one-hit KO?

Bombs should linger 1 second longer with a slightly bigger blast radius. They should also detonate on contact no matter what. This would make MUs with Sheik a ton easier.

B-air should always be the powerful B-air. Keep the lasting hatboxes as well.

D-air should always spike (since the sourspot is weak as heck).

And flippin' remove hurtboxes on all our attacks. Mario's D-air should not beat Screw Attack.

 

[leiraD]

I don't know why so much people want they to buff DSmash, that is the last move I want them to mess with....
It is the perfect "get the F* out of here" move, it does it's job really well and I have nothing to complain about it.
I want a reason to use missiles again, I want our charged shot to be fearsome as it once was, I want the bombs to stay longer static at the same place so we can make bomb jump recoveries again....
Our DSmash is doing great.

Gotta disagree on Dsmash. Samus lacks consistent kill options, and dsmash is (I'm pretty sure) the only dsmash in the whole game that really doesn't kill. I'm not asking for a move that kills at 90, but it should totally be able to kill at 150-160.

 

[KenMeister]

Gotta disagree on Dsmash. Samus lacks consistent kill options, and dsmash is (I'm pretty sure) the only dsmash in the whole game that really doesn't kill. I'm not asking for a move that kills at 90, but it should totally be able to kill at 150-160.

I feel like if it's not going to kill make it frame 3 so that it works in a manner similar to Zelda's downsmash.

 

[KayJay]

I'm one of the few who actually wins tournament prices as Samus. And I only use D-Smash for edge guarding after a bomb trap. The only move I use less is U-Smash. A retreating SH D-air is better for catching rolls as D-Smash because it leads into B-Air/CS kills and you can auto-cancel against big opponents so no, D-Smash is not great.

 

[Charoite]

People still have the dumb idea that the balance team only use FFA and for glory as the only metric to balance the game, why you still have that idea?? only because your character was not buffed, doesnt mean that make balance in that way, becuase you see characters like DK, Ike being buffed.

Realistic if you are that desperate for buffs, go and play samus in a tournament and try to go atleast to top 16, that way the team can see what samus is lacking and how they can improve her, because in reality what players are playing samus? who are good with her? not only that but i think that is hilarious that theres so much outrage for samus viability in the internet, but in actual tournaments theres almost none who mains her, with or without secondaries even in locals, is quite amusing.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

@Chariote

The reason the top players don't touch Samus is because they know that her problems will keep her away from being viable in high level play. People who attend high level tournaments want to have the best chances of winning, and Samus does not offer that. You're presenting a solution that doesn't solve the problem as simply as you'd like it to.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Increased damage on Zair so it deals 8%
Missiles with more durability, less lag overall and better homing properties
More kill power on Power Missiles, with additional shield damage and shield stun
Faster startup, reduced endlag and more kill power on Down Smash
Autolink properties a la Falco on Samus' Fair, Up B and Up Smash
Bigger Down air size to match animation
Down Tilt damage increased to 15% with proper kill power
Less landing lag on Fair
Up killing 15%-25% earlier
Reduce hurtboxes on her moves to prevent jank situations
Remove sourspot on F Tilt
Less end lag out of Down B
Slightly faster charge speed on Neutral B a la Donkey Kong
Dash attack hitbox active 3 or 4 frames earlier

If we ever get any of these in a balance patch Samus would at least work.

 

[Afro Smash]

Her D Smash isn't great...

• Less range than Jab
• Not fast on start up or cool down
• Doesn't kill until 200%+
• only 10%/12% damage

The only good thing about this move is it occasionally sets up for tech chases, that's no where near enough to justify how poor it is in every other area though.

Edit: Woops was hella late with this, points remain though

 

[Hapajin]

And it is not awful in contrast to most of the cast, it is the opposite really. Look, when people use DSmash, why do they use that instead of using Up or FSmash? People don't use DSmash because it kills.... it is a nice plus, but F and Up Smash usually does that better anyway. When people use Down Smash, they usually want a fast move that covers both sides to do things like punish rolls or just as a fast option to build space.

Just FYI, sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, if that's your intent. Otherwise, you're kind of on your own concerning your D-Smash thoughts.

With moves like Ike's dash attack going from a weak attack to a viable kill move, I'm hopeful that the dev team can implement similar changes to Samus' D-smash, although a faster startup/cooldown would be preferable, IMO.

 

[Scream]

It is not awful, it is great! It is fast, it cover both sides, it has enough knockback to throw the opponent away, it is a great move!
Plus, if you want something that kills, Samus has more than enough options.
And plus, if you're gonna compare her already great DSmash with someone's similar but better move, then Samus' CS is awful because Shadow Ball.

And it is not awful in contrast to most of the cast, it is the opposite really. Look, when people use DSmash, why do they use that instead of using Up or FSmash? People don't use DSmash because it kills.... it is a nice plus, but F and Up Smash usually does that better anyway. When people use Down Smash, they usually want a fast move that covers both sides to do things like punish rolls or just as a fast option to build space.
Samus' DSmash is one of the BEST for doing that. Do you want something that kills? Samus is full of options to do that.... but her DSmash does the job that a DSmash must do better than most of the DSmashes.

*Shakes head violently*

I'm one of the few who actually wins tournament prices as Samus.

Austria so free. Coming over to germany again any time soon?

Her D Smash isn't great...

• Less range than Jab
• Not fast on start up or cool down
• Doesn't kill until 200%+
• only 10%/12% damage

The only good thing about this move is it occasionally sets up for tech chases, that's no where near enough to justify how poor it is in every other area though.

Perfect summary, this move is absoluete trash.

 

[White_Pointer]

I don't know why so much people want they to buff DSmash, that is the last move I want them to mess with....
It is the perfect "get the F* out of here" move, it does it's job really well and I have nothing to complain about it.

I too really like dsmash...it's fast, hits on both sides and perfectly punishes rolls...although some characters with really fast jabs like Captain Falcon and Little Mac can still roll behind you and jab you before the back hit of dsmash actually connects with them, which is annoying.

However...having said that, I WOULD like it even more if it was actually a legitimate kill option.

Gotta disagree on Dsmash. Samus lacks consistent kill options, and dsmash is (I'm pretty sure) the only dsmash in the whole game that really doesn't kill. I'm not asking for a move that kills at 90, but it should totally be able to kill at 150-160.

Zero Suit's dsmash never kills, at any percentage. Neither does Villager's. A few other characters have some pretty mediocre dsmashes too, such as Zelda, Sheik (surprisingly) and Robin (without the Levin Sword).

 

[leiraD]

I too really like dsmash...it's fast, hits on both sides and perfectly punishes rolls...although some characters with really fast jabs like Captain Falcon and Little Mac can still roll behind you and jab you before the back hit of dsmash actually connects with them, which is annoying.

However...having said that, I WOULD like it even more if it was actually a legitimate kill option.



Zero Suit's dsmash never kills, at any percentage. Neither does Villager's. A few other characters have some pretty mediocre dsmashes too, such as Zelda, Sheik (surprisingly) and Robin (without the Levin Sword).

Touche.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

I too really like dsmash...it's fast, hits on both sides and perfectly punishes rolls...although some characters with really fast jabs like Captain Falcon and Little Mac can still roll behind you and jab you before the back hit of dsmash actually connects with them, which is annoying.

However...having said that, I WOULD like it even more if it was actually a legitimate kill option.



Zero Suit's dsmash never kills, at any percentage. Neither does Villager's. A few other characters have some pretty mediocre dsmashes too, such as Zelda, Sheik (surprisingly) and Robin (without the Levin Sword).

You're kidding, right? Both ZSS and Villager's dsmash set up into kills, or at least a lot of damage.

 

[Afro Smash]

Yeah ZSS Down Smash is prolly one of the best in the game lol, combos in to down b for kills at like 40%. Villagers combos in to Up Smash, Zelda's is faster on start up and end lag and sends at a better angle, and Sheik's kills around 60-70% percent earlier than ours, though it is pretty bad. Non Levin Sword Robin doesn't really count.

 

[White_Pointer]

You're kidding, right? Both ZSS and Villager's dsmash set up into kills, or at least a lot of damage.

Neither of them actually directly do much damage nor do they kill by themselves. They might set up into kill options but they don't actually kill by themselves. I'm not saying they are bad moves by any means, but I was responding to the statement that Samus' is the only dsmash that doesn't really kill. I also mentioned there are other pretty bad dsmashes out there if you're judging them purely on KO potential, such as Zelda's, Shiek's and Levin Swordless Robin. Even Meta Knight's and Yoshi's generally need to hit the sweet spot of the back hit on the edge to KO at less than 150%.

 

[Afro Smash]

Leading to guaranteed kills in this context means killing though, and if you look at the bullet points I posted her D Smash is unremarkable to absolute trash in every category when compared to every other Down Smash. Generally with every move in this game if it's is bad in one area it is made up for in another. Samus Down Smash has no defining feature to justify why it's poor in other areas, it's just poor in all of them, when it wasn't in past games

 

[leiraD]

Leading to guaranteed kills in this context means killing though, and if you look at the bullet points I posted her D Smash is unremarkable to absolute trash in every category when compared to every other Down Smash. Generally with every move in this game if it's is bad in one area it is made up for in another. Samus Down Smash has no defining feature to justify why it's poor in other areas, it's just poor in all of them, when it wasn't in past games

^this

 

[Gijsbeer]

I don't know why so much people want they to buff DSmash, that is the last move I want them to mess with....
It is the perfect "get the F* out of here" move, it does it's job really well and I have nothing to complain about it.
I want a reason to use missiles again, I want our charged shot to be fearsome as it once was, I want the bombs to stay longer static at the same place so we can make bomb jump recoveries again....
Our DSmash is doing great.

I want Dsmash to be buffed because it's just too weak + laggy for a smash attack. Really Dsmash simply will not kill. I think this is super lame since a lot of characters, mario for example, have a very similar Dsmash with a lot of kill power.

Also isnt our charge shot better than it has ever been in smash? Did i miss a nerf?

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I just want one thing but I know it's not gonna happen lol

If customs are turned off, I want a thing in palutena and megaman's boxes after you select them to configure any of their customs (and unlock megaman's customs a la samus' helmet when you buy her gunner costume).

Why those two and not everybody else? Because along with the miis I feel both these characters are meant to be customizable with the extra effort put into most of their custom moves rather than just altering the animation slightly. Also then it allows us to have a precedent to use miis more freely in tournaments.

 

[Afro Smash]

Tf does that have to do with samus

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Tf does that have to do with samus

Idk alan, it seems to have everything to do with samus to me /s

 

[White_Pointer]

On the custom move note though, I certainly wouldn't complain if her standard bomb was replaced with the slip bomb custom Especially given it actually spikes.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Her slip bombs don't do enough shield damage though. I don't think I can live without its shield breaking utility.

 

[Scream]

On the custom move note though, I certainly wouldn't complain if her standard bomb was replaced with the slip bomb custom Especially given it actually spikes.

Get out.

Seriously is this a comedy thread now?

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Any

Get out.

Seriously is this a comedy thread now?

Samus buffs, already a comedy thread /s

Really though

 

[TheWozny]

What I wish for:
- Faster Grab (Or maybe just buff it like Pacman's)
- (VERY UNREALISTIC) Give her nair barely any lag (this could be great for approaching).
- Make Upthrow a kill move at ~130%
- Charge shot going through Wario's bite and smaller projectiles.
- Buff Super Missile knockback.
- JAB 1 LINKS TO JAB 2 *********************************************
- After getting hit off stage, if I do not jump, I commonly throw out a forward air for some reason when I press grab. I don't know if this is a problem with all tether characters, but it happens A LOT with Samus.
- Fix various upclose hitboxes (dash attack, Fsmash, missiles) + other hitboxes *cough* Up smash *cough*
- An increase in damage for ftilt would be nice (net at all necessary)
- Increase shield damage from bombs (would make full charge shot + single bomb shield breaks more common)
- Increased "distance" on back throw, perhaps kill at ~150%
- Less "distance" on forward throw, comboed into dash attack or fair at early percents.

Some of these are purely wishes, but the hitbox fixes, stronger super missiles, faster grab, and kill throw need to happen in my opinion.

 

[S4MUS]

I don't know why so much people want they to buff DSmash, that is the last move I want them to mess with....
It is the perfect "get the F* out of here" move, it does it's job really well and I have nothing to complain about it.
I want a reason to use missiles again, I want our charged shot to be fearsome as it once was, I want the bombs to stay longer static at the same place so we can make bomb jump recoveries again....
Our DSmash is doing great.

In past games, such as Melee, Samus' dsmash was a kill move. Now people can survive it up to 180%+. It may be a good "get off me" option at times, but giving it kill power would make it more worthwhile in using it.

 

[Teshie U]

Most of you are suggesting things that would make Samus OP with almost no weaknesses.

Floaty, heavy weight with an amazing recovery. Extremely safe and dangerous zoning game. Fast, safe, powerful close range options. Massively disjointed spikes, projectile spike, 3x damage on zair. Frame 6 Dtilt that kills, Frame 6 Dash Attack that covers half the stage with low lag and kill confirms. Powerful projectile that lasers through 2ndary hurtboxes (pikmin, bombs etc.) and can't be blocked, reflected or absorbed. This broken move should also charge faster so Samus can outcamp the balls off of everyone.

Fastest Fsmash in the game should require no precision and have no drawbacks, should also true combo from zair and bombs. Everything should be safe on block even when spaced poorly.

If Samus got even 10% of stuff Samus mains want, she would be top 5 in the game AND really easy to play.

 

[Metallinatus]

I am not saying that Down Smash being a kill move would be bad, I am saying that I prefer to see a dozen other moves being buffed before the Down Smash.... almost nobody else seems to like the move for whatever reason, but it does wonders for me even without killing....
And to all the people that says that the move is "laggy" lol I take it that you never played another character in the game before....
Palutena's DSmash is laggy, Shulk's is laggy, even Sheik's is laggy in comparison, Samus' is fast....
Meanwhile, her Side B has so much startup and ending lag that it would be faster to just run the whole extension of Bridge of Eldin and jab the opponent to hit him.
Oh, and it also doesn't kill.... unlike in previous games.

 

[Boney]

She's supposed to be a zoning characters but she has one of the worst neutral in the game.

So the changes that would fit her design would be

- Overhaul of her throws, you're risking a lot by going for a throw, if you miss it you're gonna get punished for it hard, whereas you don't get anything out of them past 40%. Down throw needs to have less end lag so you can get some more follow ups, back throw should kill at the ledge at around 110-120 and her up throw should kill at 130-140. Forward throw can keep being ass I'm ok with that.

- Missiles should be an actual threat. I realize making them too good along with a charge shot for mix ups might be a tad dangerous, but still, she needs a lot less end lag on her regular missiles and they wouldn't lose air momentum like that. Make them stand toe to toe against Mario's fireballs for example. Super missiles on the other hand should be buffed to 12%, increase knockback growth dramatically and change the knockback angle so it's more horizontal. A little nerf could be that it throws you back like the charge shot does while airborne.

- 1% buff on both hits of zair

- bombs active hitbox comes out MUCH sooner but not immediately.

Every move she has is designed to be punishable if they get too close to you. Horrible jab combo, the ftilt sourspot, horrendous end lag on dtilt, slow startup on up tilt (and punishable on block if too close). Small sweetspot on fsmash, horrible hitbox on up smash that doesn't hit grounded opponents (it's even hard to catch falling opponents). A down smash with no kill power, horrible end lag on grab, long start up on dash attack, horrible end lag on fair, minuscule hitbox on nair (and mediocre knockback). Sweetspot on back air and a small hitbox on up air. Huge end lag on finishing charging up.

All of this put together doesn't make up for her perceived strengths. Primarily, a projectile that can kill early and it's fast.

She needs fixes here as well obviously. She needs a better jab combo, Dtilt should kill, nair should kill earlier, up tilt should have less end lag, back hit of down smash should hit harder. Fair should hit have a hitbox when landing. Multi hits should have better vacuum properties. Screw attack should also have better better knockback as well.

And bring back ftilt, jesus christ

 

[Teshie U]

Why should dtilt kill anyway? Just because it did in previous games? I'd much rather see it become safer (take 10-15 frames off the back end) option when spaced. It would cover fsmash blind spots (wont need to be fixed), improve shield pressure and likely set up for juggles and possibly frame tight kill setups at the ledge.

Her jab combo doesn't really need to "work" in a conventional sense. If the hitstun from jab 1 was increased enough for her slow jab 2 to combo all the time, she would have to miss out on her jab cancel or wind up with pre-patch fox/link kill confirms from a frame 3 jab.

Dsmash is a perfect example of a problem that needs 1 fix, not 3-4 like everyone wants. Really just needs less lag. Not every smash needs to be about killing.


I think Samus is far less of a zoner than she used to be. Back in 64/Melee I'm sure she was "wow 3-4 projectiles, this character suuuuuure can camp", but now there are characters with 6+ projectiles and I think Samus isn't really meant to beat those guys in the ranged battle. I don't want to see her turn into missile/bomb/charge shot on repeat.

 

[Hapajin]

I personally would love it if Samus could outcamp the balls off the rest of the cast and force those suckers to approach.

But that's just me, and I'm not twiddling my thumbs waiting for the dev team to make those changes.

The hurtbox extensions and broken hitboxes are the main things I want fixed. Also at least ONE safe Close range option. And Grab not being crap. I don't care if it kills or not, just shouldn't be this bad...

 

[KayJay]

Jab1 into 2 and sourspot f-tilt is unsafe on confirmed hit at low %. You get punished for hitconfirm your opponent. No character should have to deal with such a design flaw. This fact reduces Samus's options in the neutral.

Samus's grab should get the same buffs Link's grab got, his grabs has gotten much less end frames via patch and his D-throw angle is just perfect. Samus's D-Throw has no true follow up's against some characters with good DI.

D-Tilt could have use some IASA frames for true follow-ups to justify it's risk, and way less knockback if it shouldn't be a kill move so it can lead to combos 'till ~90%.

Z-Air is dealing 1%/3% dmg, in comparison ZSS's Z-Air is dealing 3/6% dmg and is more safe due to her faster short hop. Samus's Z-Air should do at least 2%/4% dmg.

Missile/Super Missiles really need a bit less start up & ending frames, just like Mii Gunner's Missiles got buffed.

D-Smash is garbage because different moves are a better option in every situation (retreating pivot F-smash, SH D-Air), if it gets buffed than fine but this move isn't the reason Samus has a hard time.

If Jab1 IASA frames get patched, Samus Grab game gets buffed like Link's, Missiles behave like Mii Gunner's and Z-Air doing more damage than these changes wouldn't make her Top tier, maybe not even high tier but at least higher mid tier and that's all I need to win money.

 

[Scream]

Most of you are suggesting things that would make Samus OP with almost no weaknesses.

Floaty, heavy weight with an amazing recovery. Extremely safe and dangerous zoning game. Fast, safe, powerful close range options. Massively disjointed spikes, projectile spike, 3x damage on zair. Frame 6 Dtilt that kills, Frame 6 Dash Attack that covers half the stage with low lag and kill confirms. Powerful projectile that lasers through 2ndary hurtboxes (pikmin, bombs etc.) and can't be blocked, reflected or absorbed. This broken move should also charge faster so Samus can outcamp the balls off of everyone.

Fastest Fsmash in the game should require no precision and have no drawbacks, should also true combo from zair and bombs. Everything should be safe on block even when spaced poorly.

If Samus got even 10% of stuff Samus mains want, she would be top 5 in the game AND really easy to play.

Thank you for being a voice of reason to many here.

In my humble opinion all Samus really NEEDS to work as a charachter are fixes to her hitboxes and overly extended hurtboxes. That would include Upsmash for one.
Top Priority are also the unsafeness of Jab1 and Ftilt at lower percents.

Now if we want her to be a better charachter instead of just a working one we have to look at not what is her designed weakness, but what makes her fail at a higher level.
And that would be her grab game. She has an immensly slow grab with a lot of lag.
It yields too little reward in comparison to what she gets for whiffing it.

There are a lot of ways to go about fixing her grab game, but listing options will do little.

Further down the list would be things like some less lag on missiles etc..


I love this charachter and would ask for nothing more than nessecary fixes if i were to face Sakurai.
She is totally unique and she can go far allready if one is to master her.
Stop asking for bogus buffs, use your time to improve instead.

 

[White_Pointer]

Her slip bombs don't do enough shield damage though. I don't think I can live without its shield breaking utility.

I'd probably take having a reliable spike option. Then again though, the slip bombs dn't provide as much aerial movement as the regular ones do either.

What if we take the bombs exactly as they are right now, but also add a slip/spike property to them?

- After getting hit off stage, if I do not jump, I commonly throw out a forward air for some reason when I press grab. I don't know if this is a problem with all tether characters, but it happens A LOT with Samus..

You can't throw out the tether grab if you are tumbling. You need to jump, air dodge or do an attack to stop the tumble animation before you can use the tether recovery.

Having said that, even if you do stop the tumble animation the tether recovery can sometimes mess up and just do a regular zair attack, which doesn't grab the ledge, and is pretty annoying.

Her jab combo doesn't really need to "work" in a conventional sense. If the hitstun from jab 1 was increased enough for her slow jab 2 to combo all the time, she would have to miss out on her jab cancel or wind up with pre-patch fox/link kill confirms from a frame 3 jab.

She doesn't need increased hitstun on jab 1, she just needs jab 2 to come out faster so it properly links.

 

[ReturningFall]

I'd probably take having a reliable spike option. Then again though, the slip bombs dn't provide as much aerial movement as the regular ones do either.

What if we take the bombs exactly as they are right now, but also add a slip/spike property to them?



You can't throw out the tether grab if you are tumbling. You need to jump, air dodge or do an attack to stop the tumble animation before you can use the tether recovery.

Having said that, even if you do stop the tumble animation the tether recovery can sometimes mess up and just do a regular zair attack, which doesn't grab the ledge, and is pretty annoying.



She doesn't need increased hitstun on jab 1, she just needs jab 2 to come out faster so it properly links.

Tip from some guys who also play tether recoveries but aren't hunting for buffs.

Use airdodge and then use attack to throw the Zair in the first couple frames after you input the air dodge..

The airdodge will break you out of tumble. You can actually cancel AD to Zair at any point in the AD (but you take AD landing lag).

 

[White_Pointer]

Tip from some guys who also play tether recoveries but aren't hunting for buffs.

Use airdodge and then use attack to throw the Zair in the first couple frames after you input the air dodge..

The airdodge will break you out of tumble. You can actually cancel AD to Zair at any point in the AD (but you take AD landing lag).

I think you quoted the wrong person, you're repeating what I said

 

[Afro Smash]

Glad you edited it but we're quite justified in asking for buffs, Link is just about the only other tether character who could need buffs and has been getting them consistently through out patches particularly to his Grab game whilst Samus has recieved basically nothing