Sept. 30th Patch Hopes and Predictions

[-_ellipsis_-]

She doesn't need increased hitstun on jab 1, she just needs jab 2 to come out faster so it properly links.

The problem isn't jab2 being slow. It's that before you reach the iasa frames of jab1, your opponent is out of hitstun and will proceed to hurt you. Making jab2 come out faster doesn't solve anything. We either need increased hitstun on jab1, or much sooner iasa frames so it's safe INCLUDING a faster jab2 if it's going to combo earlier. I'd simply prefer more hitstun though.

 

[Scream]

The problem isn't jab2 being slow. It's that before you reach the iasa frames of jab1, your opponent is out of hitstun and will proceed to hurt you. Making jab2 come out faster doesn't solve anything. We either need increased hitstun on jab1, or much sooner iasa frames so it's safe INCLUDING a faster jab2 if it's going to combo earlier. I'd simply prefer more hitstun though.

If they added nore hitstun to Jab 1 they had to make it so it always finishes the jab Combo.
Else Samus would have CRAZY frame advantage after jab1.
Please dont do it.

 

[KayJay]

More Base knockback on Jab 1 so the hitstun at 0% behaves like it now does at 50%. Less knockback growth so it still behaves the same at 50%.
That would be a solution, but I would still prefer more IASA frames.

 

[Scream]

More Base knockback on Jab 1 so the hitstun at 0% behaves like it now does at 50%. Less knockback growth so it still behaves the same at 50%.
That would be a solution, but I would still prefer more IASA frames.

Cant do that without getting rid of Jab to Fsmash combo and i'd rather have that than a working Jab1 to Jab2.
More IASA frames would be ****ing insane on jab 1.

No leave her jab be and concentrate on her actual flaws.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Cant do that without getting rid of Jab to Fsmash combo and i'd rather have that than a working Jab1 to Jab2.
More IASA frames would be ****ing insane on jab 1.

No leave her jab be and concentrate on her actual flaws.

I'd like to agree with you, but I simply hate too much how unsafe jab1 is on hit. I think it needs a fix so that the tool tip isn't an outright lie.

 

[KayJay]

Cant do that without getting rid of Jab to Fsmash combo and i'd rather have that than a working Jab1 to Jab2.
More IASA frames would be ****ing insane on jab 1.

No leave her jab be and concentrate on her actual flaws.

Thats actually one of her biggest flaws, you aren't allowed to Jab or F-Tilt in the beginning at high level play. This is a huge problem because it limit's your options in the neutral to risky moves like D-Tilt/U-Tilt/Grab/Bombs and so on. They are all risky and if Jab doesn't get punished after hitconfirm at low % this would be a gamechanger for me. Just imagin shield dashing Poking the rushdown characters with jab.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

^^ really though, it's not like that would break samus. It's just a measly 3%.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Most of you are suggesting things that would make Samus OP with almost no weaknesses.

Floaty, heavy weight with an amazing recovery. Extremely safe and dangerous zoning game. Fast, safe, powerful close range options. Massively disjointed spikes, projectile spike, 3x damage on zair. Frame 6 Dtilt that kills, Frame 6 Dash Attack that covers half the stage with low lag and kill confirms. Powerful projectile that lasers through 2ndary hurtboxes (pikmin, bombs etc.) and can't be blocked, reflected or absorbed. This broken move should also charge faster so Samus can outcamp the balls off of everyone.

Fastest Fsmash in the game should require no precision and have no drawbacks, should also true combo from zair and bombs. Everything should be safe on block even when spaced poorly.

If Samus got even 10% of stuff Samus mains want, she would be top 5 in the game AND really easy to play.

While I agree that some things are fine as is as changing them would be a little extreme, most of the changes people want wouldn't make Samus top 5 or easy to play.

During development Sakurai and his team probably thought that her tools were too effective for her playstyle and nerfed her, but it feels like they went a little too far. Some of her moves extend her hurtbox way too much for no reason. That's a design flaw which could easily be fixed by reducing them, not removing them entirely.
Down tilt no longer kills but is unreliable in setting up combos. Her CQC is meant to be bad, but the added Ftilt sourspot hurts us even more. Zair now has 8 frames of landing lag but is the second weakest Zair after Lucas. Her grab game is weak, none of her throws come close to killing, down throw can easily be DI'ed, forward and back throw launches them too high for gimping to be very effective and up throw is mediocre. Her missiles get beat out by anything, not just clankable projectiles. Moves as weak as Sheik's Fair and Mario's Nair should trade, not outright beat them.
Making Dash attack hit earlier would just end up making hitting with it easier. If it hit earlier they would be able to get out hitstun just as Samus ends the move, as opposed to her current Dash attack which sets up combos because it hits while the move is ending. Having down air's hitbox match its animation is just making it visually consistent. Up air is fine as is, but her other multi hit moves like Fair, Up B and Up Smash have no reason to miss and whiff as often as they do, and it's never a pleasant experience getting punished for a move failing to work. If she could get the Falco treatment and have those moves autolink it would fix her.

If her moves were more consistent and some of her weaknesses were addressed she still wouldn't be top 5. She would still have hard matchups and because of her playstyle she would have problems with extreme rushdown. Samus just needs fixing. Samus is in no way the worst character in the game, but she does need help to get her out of the slump she's in.

 

[JAZZ_]

I think we all know nothing will happen for samus.

What I want is kill potential in Dsmash and super missles.
What I really want/need is having her hitbox fixed.

Most fun would be having her wavy grapplebeam in lag after a whiffed grab to remain a grab/hitbox

Id als olike impact detonating Morphball bombs but thats never going to happen

I'm actually pushing my development of bombs and their delay is their biggest strength. I have found some interesting tech with bombs. I'll release a video soon with my findings as it progresses

 

[Teshie U]

While I agree that some things are fine as is as changing them would be a little extreme, most of the changes people want wouldn't make Samus top 5 or easy to play.

During development Sakurai and his team probably thought that her tools were too effective for her playstyle and nerfed her, but it feels like they went a little too far. Some of her moves extend her hurtbox way too much for no reason. That's a design flaw which could easily be fixed by reducing them, not removing them entirely.
Down tilt no longer kills but is unreliable in setting up combos. Her CQC is meant to be bad, but the added Ftilt sourspot hurts us even more. Zair now has 8 frames of landing lag but is the second weakest Zair after Lucas. Her grab game is weak, none of her throws come close to killing, down throw can easily be DI'ed, forward and back throw launches them too high for gimping to be very effective and up throw is mediocre. Her missiles get beat out by anything, not just clankable projectiles. Moves as weak as Sheik's Fair and Mario's Nair should trade, not outright beat them.
Making Dash attack hit earlier would just end up making hitting with it easier. If it hit earlier they would be able to get out hitstun just as Samus ends the move, as opposed to her current Dash attack which sets up combos because it hits while the move is ending. Having down air's hitbox match its animation is just making it visually consistent. Up air is fine as is, but her other multi hit moves like Fair, Up B and Up Smash have no reason to miss and whiff as often as they do, and it's never a pleasant experience getting punished for a move failing to work. If she could get the Falco treatment and have those moves autolink it would fix her.

If her moves were more consistent and some of her weaknesses were addressed she still wouldn't be top 5. She would still have hard matchups and because of her playstyle she would have problems with extreme rushdown. Samus just needs fixing. Samus is in no way the worst character in the game, but she does need help to get her out of the slump she's in.

Weak little projectiles simply don't overpower normal attacks. Are you suggesting missiles should have a 2ndary explosion like pk fire or yoshi's eggs? She just needs less lag on them so she can better react to how her opponent handles the missile. The missile itself doesn't need to clobber everything.

I definitely agree about attack animations matching, but if the hitbox was extended to where the animation is for Dair, it would be a bit strong. Other spikes in this game don't have much of a disjoint or much power (except Yoshi's crazy facespike). Its a pretty good Dair when spaced.

Multi-hit moves failing is just something everyone deals with. Diddy's upsmash, sheik's Uair, ZSS boost kick/fair/plasma whip can all fail if they don't hit properly, you get SDIed certain ways. Characters like Fox even benefit from this sort of thing. Upsmash is definitely a really really dumb move though for not working AND letting people fall right next to you.

Dash attack is REALLY good the way it is. Making the hitbox earlier would mean you either take away the best part about it or you keep both and now its just covering 1/3 of FD with a frame 6-20 hitbox. It doesn't need to hit super close to her if they just fix ftilt/dtilt. Samus doesn't need to punish every single thing with dash attack.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Weak little projectiles simply don't overpower normal attacks. Are you suggesting missiles should have a 2ndary explosion like pk fire or yoshi's eggs? She just needs less lag on them so she can better react to how her opponent handles the missile. The missile itself doesn't need to clobber everything.

I definitely agree about attack animations matching, but if the hitbox was extended to where the animation is for Dair, it would be a bit strong. Other spikes in this game don't have much of a disjoint or much power (except Yoshi's crazy facespike). Its a pretty good Dair when spaced.

Multi-hit moves failing is just something everyone deals with. Diddy's upsmash, sheik's Uair, ZSS boost kick/fair/plasma whip can all fail if they don't hit properly, you get SDIed certain ways. Characters like Fox even benefit from this sort of thing. Upsmash is definitely a really really dumb move though for not working AND letting people fall right next to you.

Dash attack is REALLY good the way it is. Making the hitbox earlier would mean you either take away the best part about it or you keep both and now its just covering 1/3 of FD with a frame 6-20 hitbox. It doesn't need to hit super close to her if they just fix ftilt/dtilt. Samus doesn't need to punish every single thing with dash attack.

I can live with them only reducing lag on missiles.
They don't need to have an explosion or beat every single move, but it does annoy me how missiles look like they physically made contact but don't actually reach the hurtbox.
I still really hope they make dash attack hit at least 1 or 2 frames earlier and make down air slightly more accurate to its animation. It's not about punishing every single move with it, it's for all those times where Ftilt can't reach but Dash attack totally whiffs on startup.

 

[Teshie U]

Is there a gap between tilts and dash attack hitbox? I usually just dash dance to starter the DA from further away since the only thing worth hitting someone with most of the time.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Is there a gap between tilts and dash attack hitbox? I usually just dash dance to starter the DA from further away since the only thing worth hitting someone with most of the time.

There are some characters that can pester your shield and land in a spot where you either need to tilt the Ftilt, or they can drift back and land where dash attack whiffs and grab is too slow to catch them. Falcon, ZSS and Diddy can all bair (and fair in Diddy's case) and autocancel, but eventually they'll fast fall and suffer lag by accident. That's where DA comes in.
But then two things might happen. Either you try and DA after the initial dash too fast and Fsmash by accident or whiff.
If you look at the frame data from Brawl and Smash 4, Smash 4 Samus DA hitbox starts at frame 10 as opposed to frame 8 in Brawl.

 

[Vyrnx]

I kind of doubt we will be changed in the patch.

On another note, ugh, these threads. The last one for patch 1.0.8 just ended up becoming the only active Samus thread for weeks, even after the update.

On the one hand, people are really negative (myself included), which can get a bit annoying, but then there are all the people who chastise Samuses for complaining. Like, I get people who are annoyed by Yoshi and Luigi mains who go to their boards and complain about all the buffs they need, but... This is Samus, and those two characters are top tiers. There is justification for complaining. But we do over complain for sure. Sometimes when I read these boards I feel the urge to fall from high places.

If we aren't buffed in the patch, let's just move on instead of letting this thread linger for weeks like the last one.

 

[Metallinatus]

I kind of doubt we will be changed in the patch.

On another note, ugh, these threads. The last one for patch 1.0.8 just ended up becoming the only active Samus thread for weeks, even after the update.

On the one hand, people are really negative (myself included), which can get a bit annoying, but then there are all the people who chastise Samuses for complaining. Like, I get people who are annoyed by Yoshi and Luigi mains who go to their boards and complain about all the buffs they need, but... This is Samus, and those two characters are top tiers. There is justification for complaining. But we do over complain for sure. Sometimes when I read these boards I feel the urge to fall from high places.

If we aren't buffed in the patch, let's just move on instead of letting this thread linger for weeks like the last one.

You made me remember of that Luigi main who created a thread in the Sheik boards complaining about her and talking about nerfs she "needs" to have or something like that.... like, seriously?
Btw, complaints about Bowser/Diddy/Sheik/MiiSwordfighterTomorrowWhoKnows? are the most annoying.

 

[zblaqk]

I kind of doubt we will be changed in the patch.

On another note, ugh, these threads. The last one for patch 1.0.8 just ended up becoming the only active Samus thread for weeks, even after the update.

On the one hand, people are really negative (myself included), which can get a bit annoying, but then there are all the people who chastise Samuses for complaining. Like, I get people who are annoyed by Yoshi and Luigi mains who go to their boards and complain about all the buffs they need, but... This is Samus, and those two characters are top tiers. There is justification for complaining. But we do over complain for sure. Sometimes when I read these boards I feel the urge to fall from high places.

If we aren't buffed in the patch, let's just move on instead of letting this thread linger for weeks like the last one.

Agreed. I get that people are upset about Samus but positivity is important for a community to thrive! This thread INTENT was more geared towards hope and being excited by a possible patch.

 

[MOM Samus]

Just imagin shield dashing Poking the rushdown characters with jab.

Characters do that all the time. Fox, YOSHI, Zelda, ROSA, Ness, Lucas.

 

[Boney]

^^ really though, it's not like that would break samus. It's just a measly 3%.

It's not about 3%, it's about having access to a frame 3 move with good cool down like every other character does. As soon as a match stars samus is at a disadvantage because she can't effectively use basic moves like jab and ftilt.

Also my most hated thing about jab 1 is how it'll whiff on landing opponents all the time.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

It's not about 3%, it's about having access to a frame 3 move with good cool down like every other character does. As soon as a match stars samus is at a disadvantage because she can't effectively use basic moves like jab and ftilt.

Also my most hated thing about jab 1 is how it'll whiff on landing opponents all the time.

Yeah, not hitting landing opponents is garbage. I wish jab could hit people off ledges. Lol.

Btw when I meant it being a mere 3% I meant that getting a couple follow ups from it wouldn't be too OP. You know, since most of the cast gets jab follow ups anyway.

 

[Teshie U]

I kind of doubt we will be changed in the patch.

On another note, ugh, these threads. The last one for patch 1.0.8 just ended up becoming the only active Samus thread for weeks, even after the update.

On the one hand, people are really negative (myself included), which can get a bit annoying, but then there are all the people who chastise Samuses for complaining. Like, I get people who are annoyed by Yoshi and Luigi mains who go to their boards and complain about all the buffs they need, but... This is Samus, and those two characters are top tiers. There is justification for complaining. But we do over complain for sure. Sometimes when I read these boards I feel the urge to fall from high places.

If we aren't buffed in the patch, let's just move on instead of letting this thread linger for weeks like the last one.

Yes, its a bit of a shame that most characters boards that didn't get what they wanted recently (either because they lost out when customs left the meta or a patch overlooked their weaknesses) are just dead or only full of posts about "how to get what we need from TOs/Sakurai".

This board is one of the better ones, lots of metagame advancement and knowledge.

 

[ShiroSSB]

I SURE HOPE THEY NERF HER ROLLING :D

 

[Metallinatus]

I SURE HOPE THEY NERF HER ROLLING :D

I hope someday Sakurai wakes up and decide that it would be cool to give Samus an actual Morph Ball mode like in PM....
I also hope that someday we will see true world peace.
And I also hope that someday Ash will win a big league.
And that Zero will lose a Sm4sh tournament.
Well, you never know.

 

[JAZZ_]

Yes, its a bit of a shame that most characters boards that didn't get what they wanted recently (either because they lost out when customs left the meta or a patch overlooked their weaknesses) are just dead or only full of posts about "how to get what we need from TOs/Sakurai".

This board is one of the better ones, lots of metagame advancement and knowledge.

I think its because we have to advance, or we dont compete at all. we do complain, (I know I did, and I'm not sorry about it which suprises me a bit) but eventually we get back in the grove and work on our craft. though it was funny how we pushed Samus down to a Special spot on the community tier list. hopefully it wont be as bad this time. Id be a little shocked if Samus gets completely ignored again, I dont think the outrage will be bad if they do at least 1 change

 

[Tonetta]

Hey look I was wrong, most samus players are pretty happy!

 

[leiraD]

Hey look I was wrong, most samus players are pretty happy!

Yupyup! GL @ TBH5

 

[MOM Samus]

Hey look I was wrong, most samus players are pretty happy!

Not because of direct Samus buffs.