Semi Spike Jab?

[Mmac]

So it might be a surprise (or not) that I actually Main Ganondorf also. He's just so fun to play with, and I don't care if he sucks or not.


Anyways I noticed a strange property of his Jab. When you input the Jab, and Press Down before the Jab connects, the Jab will actually send them downwards! It sounds, for a lack of a better term, unbelievable, but the Control stick input does indeed does something.

I did the couple test with the DI of the Control Stick. Just leaving it alone has a small chance of Semi Spiking, but what really gets me is that if you push the Control Stick Up (The opposite, duh), then it never once Semi Spike out of the 20-30 times I did it (Unless it was a coincidence...) So I KNOW it does something. My theory is that even though it doesn't show it, the Jab actually has the Downwards/Upwards properties of a Directional Tilt/Smash.

This can be excellent for Edgeguarding, or as a Stomp Setup. I'm not sure if pressing forward (Moar Distance?) or backwards (Combos?) does anything.... It can also be a major pain to those with Poor Vertical recoveries, Generally Poor Recoveries, or even subpar recoveries that can be easily edgehoged


It wasn't in the guides, so I thought I'd mention it...

 

[:034:]

Test all directions (including normal ones) about 100 times, preferably on different characters.

If it works more than 75% of the time, I'd say this is a solid find.

I'd test it myself but no Wii right now.. ):

 

[Mmac]

I'll get on it, but in the Morning, Being that it's about 1:30.... and tired.... All I can really say now is, don't press up!

 

[Z1GMA]

I experienced the same thing while I was playing around as Ganondorf in training mode the other day!

As you said, One performs a jab then quickly press down before it connects.

Iv'e been thinking about if it is affected by the (down input) or not..

I think it's a good idea to try it out with a friend since the COM in training mode can screw things up sometimes..

Maybe it's the opponents DI which causes this to happen?
Or that the jab hitbox can send them at different angles depending on WHERE they get hit?

If you try out Gannys Fthrow the same way (down input) similar things happens at times..


Future EDIT: So did anyone try it out?

 

[TP]

It's been 4 hours already! Why hasn't Swoops written a dissertation for us yet?

 

[A2ZOMG]

You sure it isn't horribad DI?

I'd want to test this on all attacks because it more or less sounds like it might be a universal AT nobody knows about.

 

[Swoops]

It's been 4 hours already! Why hasn't Swoops written a dissertation for us yet?

Because I'm pretty skeptical of this. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it be true, but I usually require a lot more verification and hardcore evidence before I write something up on it >_>. I tried it several times and it's been regular trajectory every time.

But I want to be proven wrong.

 

[PK-ow!]

Couldn't you go into Vs Mode (like, actual Brawl), hook up a dummy P2 controller, stand at the edge, and jab?

Then you know there's no "horribad" DI. There's no DI at all.

I thought I noticed this with Falco's fair. Like some kind of projected-action smash DI. But it was, of course, just Falco's own momentum - if you're falling, it knocks the guy down, if you're rising, it knocks the guy up (particularly cool if you FullJump ~Fair, but pull back, throwing your opponent into the air while you move backwards).

Swoops, if you've done testing, how could that not be sufficient disproof? It's a pretty straightforward AT: Either the control stick influences their movement, or it doesn't. If you didn't see anything, then it's not there. So what am I missing?


BTW, horribad is an awesome term. It reads so well.

 

[Swoops]

I vote that this tech be a scam! If you could get a vid up of the change in trajectory you see mmac, then I'll reconsider it, but I see no change.

 

[Mmac]

I vote that this tech be a scam! If you could get a vid up of the change in trajectory you see mmac, then I'll reconsider it, but I see no change.

Fine, because I like you. http://files.filefront.com/ssbganonjabwmv/;12131108;/fileinfo.html

As you can see, compared to a regular jab, he goes almost exactly horizontal into a Dive, while remaining in the stun.

I would be lying if I didn't said that the dummy didn't do squat when I tried it with him. With an AI however, seems to work with exactly what I said above. From what I seen, Downwards Input had a 68% Rate, No Input had 41%, and Upwards DI had a pathetic 6% Rate.

So it could work if the person is preforming a form of action... or it's possibly that the AI is screwing with me and DI's with the direction I Implement... Most likely the latter....

 

[Z1GMA]

I tried it for half an hour in training mode Vs a (Human) controlled Mario at 100% damage..
Sadly it didn't seem to work =/
I pressed down with Mario while getting hit, which caused Mario to travel in the
"Semi spike"-trajectory..
Seems like the opponents DI is responsible for all this... not sure though!

(It seemed to work when I tried it VS a (CPU) controlled Mario the other day)

However Mmac.. The fact that both U and I noticed something strange about this is reason enough for me to say: IT NEEDS MORE TESTING!

 

[hyperstation]

More pwease.

 

[Swoops]

Fine, because I like you. http://files.filefront.com/ssbganonjabwmv/;12131108;/fileinfo.html

As you can see, compared to a regular jab, he goes almost exactly horizontal into a Dive, while remaining in the stun.

That video seriously frustrates me -_-. Set it to control, just to make sure there was no opponent DI whatsoever, and the semi spike trajectory didn't come up once. haven't been able to replicate anything like what was on your vid, which sucks because it looks useful.

I dunno, I'm still doing more testing though...I'm not giving up just yet.

 

[Mmac]

I already said that I did the video with a AI (I think). With no control, it doesn't do anything. But with an AI, it goes completely with the DI I input. If it was because of the CPU's DI, then I don't know. However it goes directly with the inputs I do (Downwards = Common, Upwards = Rare). I don't know if it's screwing with me, or if it's results due to some form of action the AI is doing...

We probably have to take this into practise against actual people to see if this works. Dummies are already proved impossible, and AI's only add onto the confusion. If we can get consistent results with actual people, then it probably is a legitimate technique

 

[Swoops]

I already said that I did the video with a AI (I think). With no control, it doesn't do anything. But with an AI, it goes completely with the DI I input. If it was because of the CPU's DI, then I don't know. However it goes directly with the inputs I do (Downwards = Common, Upwards = Rare). I don't know if it's screwing with me, or if it's results due to some form of action the AI is doing...

We probably have to take this into practise against actual people to see if this works. Dummies are already proved impossible, and AI's only add onto the confusion. If we can get consistent results with actual people, then it probably is a legitimate technique

Definitely need to test against real people. I was pretty sure that control in training mode=no DI at all. And I'm pretty sure that dummy CPUs do give DI input. Try stomping one over and over again at 0%. Sometimes they are just at level for a grab, other times they go higher. It's because the dummy CPU DId up part of the time. I'm still not sure though, mainly because I don't trust training mode.

Need to find a real person to test against >.>

 

[Jekyll]

I think I see where the confusion is...

Mmac, what swoops was saying is that if you set player 2 to "Control" in training mode, then you'll get the correct results. From what you're said, it sounds like you can only get the "semi-spike" when player 2 is set to "Stand" (which is what I think you mean by "with an AI"), then it seems like the opponent's DI is whatever you put in. That would explain why hitting down would cause such a low trajectory. It would force the opponent, in this case an AI set to "Stand", to DI down when you hit them.

Bottom line, if it doesn't work when player 2 is set to "Control", then it doesn't work.

 

[Z1GMA]

And I'm pretty sure that dummy CPUs do give DI input.
Need to find a real person to test against >.>

This is true!
A (human controlled) dummy in training mode works just fine for testing trajectory since they don't DI.

 

[fromundaman]

Doesn't seem to work very reliably for me (I set up a dummy controller for it, so no enemy DI at all.).

 

[studly]

this fails.... i tried it with a friend for about 20 minutes........

there was this one time i did it and he went down quicker and i started to get exctied....til i looked over at my buddy and he was holding down

 

[Mmac]

What about Movement, Attack Interrupts, Jumping, Falling, Recovery Attempts? Did you try those?

 

[Z1GMA]

What about Movement, Attack Interrupts, Jumping, Falling, Recovery Attempts? Did you try those?

Well.. If you suspect Marth for example to perform his dtilt or down+b while he's close to the edge you can hit him before he press A/B, which will cause him to be semi spiked ... But that would be insanily hard to do! hehe

 

[fromundaman]

I wouldn't jab a marth I suspect is trying to DownB, but that's just me...

 

[Z1GMA]

I wouldn't jab a marth I suspect is trying to DownB, but that's just me...

Ever heard the sound of his counter without the counter even worked?

 

[studly]

im still not getting anything

 

[fromundaman]

Ever heard the sound of his counter without the counter even worked?

Yeah, but what happens MUCH more often is I hear the sound of his counter then end up with a blade in my face.