Securing the Kill as Mario

[Macedonian]

As i put more and more time into smash i am really starting to see where some of my weaknesses lie. So far my biggest weakness has been trying to secure the kill, especially verses somewhat heavier characters like link and captain falcon.

Fsmash is plenty strong but is hardly ever a safe option to through out.kills below 100 percent if near edge
Usmash is pretty awesome and my best kill move i think, but it dosnt kill untill at least 125% on most characters.
Bthrow is pretty good but unless they are a light char or near the edge your going to be needing very high percents to get the kill if the throw is DI'd
Dsmash, solid but if not towards the ends of the stage im looking at above 130 percent to get a kill
Bair, a soild move, but you wont be killing with this move while onstage until some very high percents.

many of these things wouldn't even be very large issues if it didnt seem like taking my opponent from 100% to 150% wasnt a million times harder then getting my opponent from 0% to 50%. At high percents i cant combo very well because hits like bair, nair, Dair, and all my tilts send the opponent to far to combo. and then when i get them that high of percents its still hard to get a good enough read to land the Usmash

so if anybody here can give me some tips on how to better secure some kills, maybe some reliable kill setups, or how i can try to edgegaurd better? How do you mario mains find yourselves comboing at high percents and netting kills?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Early on when playing against people you can generally score early kills by baiting out moves and punishing with forward smash. This will work until they catch on generally, but can still be done on reaction in certain situations scoring you kills as early as 80% in some cases. (Angle your forward smash up if possible for extra kill power)

At certain post 100% situations, down throw -> forward air is a true combo, it's a good thing to go for if you're near a ledge. Worst case scenario is they airdodge, and you fastfall. Your forward air autocancels here and I've found that it usually ends up with you landing a downsmash on the ledge, either killing them or setting them up for an edgeguard.

Upsmash is pretty useful but I think it's a bit overrated. It's only really good for covering aerial options or as a punish from run, or out of shield. It's a good kill option though so try to make sure it's not stale post 100%.

Be really proactive with your edgeguards. Falling off the ledge with light nairs is the easiest way of dealing with people who are recovering low. It will typically disrupt their recovery enough for you to hit them with an up-b stagespike or upair/whatever you want. (Forward air in hilarious situations).

On the topic of light nair, at approximately 100% on some characters it can combo into downsmash, I've killed with this a few times on characters like sheik.

Like you already know, backthrow is fine on the ledge but otherwise it likely won't kill.

Much of Mario's kill potential comes from knowing how to exploit your opponent. Figure out what their susceptible to and punish them with it. If you can't figure it out and they're a really high percent, chances are that you'll be killing with a throw or a back air. If you're finding it hard to kill, be more proactive rather than reactive with your kill moves. Reactive play with your kill moves will make it much harder to kill a skilled player.

 

[Smashtistics]

Here are some things I have success with to follow up on a really solid post from XeroXen. I have lots of trouble with combos at high percentage, and that is frustrating, but I use grabs as a way to throw people off stage and look for a spike or edge opportunities.

My style is to always fight near ledges, I'm not very good at creating offense, so I play really aggressive and corner people, so Mario fits me well, and lets me get kills at pretty low percentage. This style may not work for you, depending how you play.

I'm very vigilant with my edge guarding. If they try to get back on the stage from above, use your down special to space them away and spikes and f-smashes will emerge, or sometime a grab and f-throw to put them back into danger. If you notice someone is always jumping back on stage from the ledge a quick jump up-air can be a solid punish, and once they've accepted you'll do a light punish, go for an up-smash for a kill around 100 on many characters. I also use the slide to punish as someone looks to grab a ledge. This sends them at weird angles for smashes and grabs.

Be as versatile as possible with Mario as far as kills. Look for f-airs after hitting your running attack for a quick spike kill (I've had this work even against really good players who beat me.) Capes can be great not only for gimp kills, but also for spinning around opponent for a quick smash afterwards.

I time out rolls with the down smash. You're right that it doesn't get kills on the big characters, but that's where the follow up with ledge game plays a big part.

My fav f-smash kill is baiting someone into charging me and right after they attack, rolling back and releasing a quick f-smash. It's hard to get against really good players, but effective projectiles help make it work. Right after landing, go for an f-smash and people often think they're out of range and take a hard kill is another.

This isn't my game, wish it was, but I see really good Mario players hit lots of up-smashes when their opponents are above them. I try this but often get punished. My main up-smash kill is when I straight dodge an opponent running in, and release a quick one. At high damage I use the same straight doge into down smash for kills.

If someone is really good at avoiding being killed it's hard to get one, but I'm really into lots of pressure so a great defensive player often stifles me even if I'm not Mario.

Hope this helps you. I'm not pro with Mario, but I do win a lot more than I lose, and I think Mario being a well rounded character is a big part of that.

 

[segwayspeedracer]

Hey gang,

I'm kind of a newbie overall but I'm trying to figure out how to make the Mario play into a science. I find myself usually fishing for KOs and getting my opponent into 120% damage fairly easily, but I have no idea how to get reliable kill moves. I'm not sure what Mario's consistent options are.

Is he a very situational character overall?

 

[HeroMystic]

@ S segwayspeedracer

I merged your thread with this one, as it was literally the same topic with the same question.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Personally me...I try to see if my opponent is willing to do something unsafe that I can punish out of shield with U-smash. Usually once they start playing a lot safer, I get most of my KOs either by edgeguarding with N-air/B-air or with B-throw. Or if they are extremely predictable on the ledge, sometimes I try to U-smash/D-smash them there if I'm not likely to get killed for trying it.

KOs are definitely a big problem for Mario against people who start playing really safe. Either being able to bait your opponent into being aggressive or being careful enough to just simply wait for B-throw KOs is pretty important as Mario. Also knowing all your options for edgeguarding, ESPECIALLY edgeguarding low is really important because Mario tends to run into problems against ledge resets.

 

[Smashtistics]

Hey gang,

I'm kind of a newbie overall but I'm trying to figure out how to make the Mario play into a science. I find myself usually fishing for KOs and getting my opponent into 120% damage fairly easily, but I have no idea how to get reliable kill moves. I'm not sure what Mario's consistent options are.

Is he a very situational character overall?

The

Personally me...I try to see if my opponent is willing to do something unsafe that I can punish out of shield with U-smash. Usually once they start playing a lot safer, I get most of my KOs either by edgeguarding with N-air/B-air or with B-throw. Or if they are extremely predictable on the ledge, sometimes I try to U-smash/D-smash them there if I'm not likely to get killed for trying it.

KOs are definitely a big problem for Mario against people who start playing really safe. Either being able to bait your opponent into being aggressive or being careful enough to just simply wait for B-throw KOs is pretty important as Mario. Also knowing all your options for edgeguarding, ESPECIALLY edgeguarding low is really important because Mario tends to run into problems against ledge resets.

What is your advice on edge guarding low? This is one area I am fairly weak. I'll use n-airs or b-airs but I find them difficult to execute well. I need to improve here for sure.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sometimes getting under your opponent and jumping into them to hit them can catch them off guard. The most important thing for edgeguarding though is watching your opponent's movement and being able to know where they can end up. Against more linear recoveries I just wait until I know that they have to Up-B, and then run off and N-air if I can.

 

[NairWizard]

Perfect pivot up-smash (so you can hit with the back part, which has invincibility) is pretty much the best way to get a kill that I can think of in the game. The only character better at getting KOs this way is Luigi, because the length of his perfect pivot is greater.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Perfect pivot up-smash (so you can hit with the back part, which has invincibility) is pretty much the best way to get a kill that I can think of in the game. The only character better at getting KOs this way is Luigi, because the length of his perfect pivot is greater.

You don't need to perfect pivot to do that unless you're specifically trying to shield after pivot. You can simply just cancel your running pivot with a JC U-smash which is way easier. This works better on someone like G&W whose U-smash has much more exploitable invincibility frames for beating out poke attempts.

 

[NairWizard]

You don't need to perfect pivot to do that unless you're specifically trying to shield after pivot. You can simply just cancel your running pivot with a JC U-smash which is way easier. This works better on someone like G&W whose U-smash has much more exploitable invincibility frames for beating out poke attempts.

Does this go further than perfect pivot?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Does this go further than perfect pivot?

Not really sure, just I don't find myself feeling like Mario has a lot of reasons to perfect pivot compared to other characters. A lot of people go for turnaround JC U-smash right now which is by far way easier...and of course has the freedom of positioning out of run.

 

[NairWizard]

I'll try that. I like to perfect pivot into smashes as it's an effective way to get in with most characters, but if this covers more distance that's great.

If it's less distance then that's just another tool to add to the kit.

 

[Smashtistics]

Does anyone know of a tutorial to help with this Mario turnaround JC U-smash or a more in-depth explanation.

Thank you.

 

[smasher1001]

its pretty simple to do. So, first you run, lets say to the right. you then hit left to turn around, immediately after you jump as if you were doing a reverse air rush, but before you really leave the ground you input the command for an up smash in and it cancels the jump into an upsmash, and since you already turned around your up smash is now in front of the way you were running, hope my explaination was understandable ^.^

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Keep in mind that you can't turn around JC Usmash with the C-stick, my training partner was messing that up the other day so I figured I'd bring it up.

 

[HeroMystic]

I JC U-Smash with the C-stick all the time. Is his C-stick set to attack?

 

[popsofctown]

I'm guessing Xeroxen means on the default controls, you can't JC upsmash with the Cstick unless you actually tap X or
Y to put the J in JCU

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

You can JC upsmash with the c-stick, you can't do a turnaround JC upsmash though (at least with default controls). It's important because our hitbox starts at our back.

 

[smasher1001]

You can totally do a jump cancel upsmash with default controls, i do it all the time, just with A+up rather than the c stick since hitting x and then trying toslam the cstick upwards takes too long, for me at least

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I never said you couldn't do it with A and Up. Just not with the C stick by itself.

 

[Kwam$tack$]

a highly overlooked kill setup that ive been using alot lately is dthrow -> jumping dair. sometimes you have to full jump or a quick double jump to connect, and sometimes you can even add in an uair after the dthrow for more dmg. It can kill around 100% on some (especially when the last hit of the dair has rage). Take it to bf and you wont be disappointed

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVebG2cjkjc (at 2:18) - both stocks kill with dair but the 2nd stock combos

 

[HeroMystic]

You can JC upsmash with the c-stick, you can't do a turnaround JC upsmash though (at least with default controls). It's important because our hitbox starts at our back.

You can. You just have to do this out of a Dash: (Assume you're dashing to the right).

Think of it as a RAR except you're flicking the C-stick upwards.

a highly overlooked kill setup that ive been using alot lately is dthrow -> jumping dair. sometimes you have to full jump or a quick double jump to connect, and sometimes you can even add in an uair after the dthrow for more dmg. It can kill around 100% on some (especially when the last hit of the dair has rage). Take it to bf and you wont be disappointed

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVebG2cjkjc (at 2:18) - both stocks kill with dair but the 2nd stock combos

I am surprised that killed D3 on Halberd at 110%. I knew D-air has kill potential but I didn't think it'd be enough for it to make Halberd a solid CP for Mario (while reminding me that Kongo Jungle should go DIAF). Good stuff, should definitely keep that in mind.

 

[Kwam$tack$]

You can. You just have to do this out of a Dash: (Assume you're dashing to the right).

Think of it as a RAR except you're flicking the C-stick upwards.



I am surprised that killed D3 on Halberd at 110%. I knew D-air has kill potential but I didn't think it'd be enough for it to make Halberd a solid CP for Mario (while reminding me that Kongo Jungle should go DIAF). Good stuff, should definitely keep that in mind.

Yeah man it surprised the hell outta me on that first stock. Thats why I went for it again on the last. Im becoming more and more aware of dair's kill power

 

[Macedonian]

i play on the 3ds, can you do a jump cancel usmash on the 3ds?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Yep. Just do an upsmash during the opening frames of your turnaround animation.

When running ---->, input <---- and then quickly do an upsmash (with up and a)

Well, that's the turnaround upsmash. Doing a jump cancelled upsmash is as simple as doing an upsmash while running...

 

[Macedonian]

what advantage do i get from the jc that i dont get by sprinting turning around and usmashing?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I don't understand the question. If you cancel your run with JC Usmash then it's faster. It's a better punish and allows you to have better positioning.

 

[Macedonian]

it just seems like another input i have to do which raises my chance for wiffing the punish without very much benifit on a normal turnaround Usmash

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

How are you doing a normal turnaround Usmash from run?

 

[Macedonian]

i sprint turn around and usmash...

 

[smasher1001]

the thing with sprinting, turning, and then upsmashing is that it takes longer. If you jump cancel immediately after turning you're able to up smash faster than waiting for the full turn animation, thus giving you timing openings for using your up smash that just running and turning and then upsmashing can simply not do.

Edit: and yes, adding an input increase whiff chances. but that's just a part of getting good. the more you practice it the less often you'll whiff it, as with any other part of your gameplay. and then you can reap the benefits of a faster reverse up smash compared to doing it normally!

 

[popsofctown]

i sprint turn around and usmash...

There's a special animation where you turn around from a run. It's called "the pivot animation." On Luigi or Villager it might be more prominent and easy for you to see and differentiate from the running animation. During your "pivot animation", there's literally no action you are allowed to do besides jump or grab (well maybe you can shield, I don't know). You may not upsmash during your pivot animation.
You MAY jump during your pivot animation. Whenever you jump, the game gives you a couple frames where it gives you special permission to cancel the jump into either your Upsmash or your UpB. Only those two moves, no other moves, it's like, them's the rules.
So that's why you can Jump cancel upsmash during your pivot sooner than you can wait for your pivot to end, then upsmash. If you're playing with tap jump on and you don't see the benefit there's a decent chance you're doing it accidentally.

 

[Macedonian]

I'm definitely not waiting for the end of the pivot animation for the upsmash to go off. And I do have tap jump on in order to easier do shorthop Uair after down throw without a Cstick. I hadn't really considered it a possibility that I was accidentally doing a JC.

But based off my inputs into the 3ds I'm not sure. I literally sprint right, flick back left then up for the upsmash. I don't have a separate up input for the jump and the upsmash

 

[smasher1001]

if up jump is on, pretty sure it can be the same input for up for the smash and jump. I also think you're doing a JC since you have tap jump on.

 

[ARKills]

I get most of my kos from pivot upsmash. You could also try getting kos by reading ledge getups or trumping.

 

[Inferno3044]

So landing the kill with Mario is not one of his strongest aspects. This isn't to say he can't kill, but he has to put in some work. As a plus, he has kill moves that come out decently fast like Dsmash and Usmash and he also has a kill throw. Fsmash is very strong. Unfortunately he doesn't have a kill set up. Because of this, Mario generally has to make a read to get a kill. So for example when you hit him up to the air at 100+%, instead of going up and trying to hit him in the air like you would at lower percents, try and see where/how he is going to land. You can then use the correct punish and get the kill.

Another very important thing about getting the kill is that you can't fish for it. If your opponent sees you throwing out kill moves he will do everything he can to avoid and punish. Just be patient and don't get anxious. There are times where you won't get a kill until over 150%. It just happens and you have to keep yourself level headed.

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

I still don't think I understand the button input to this "easy" JC Upsmash. Will anyone ve willing to explain it like I'm five?

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I totally agree that lots of Mario's most tempting options need to be used very sparingly or not at all.
I think ideally D-Smash, F-Smash and Fair never come out (unless you absolutely have the right read).

I feel like Mario has the ability to absolutely torture some chars as they are falling and absolutely torture some other chars when they're off stage. So Kills start happening at around 150% either with up airs or backthrows.

Kill with stronger options when you can, but if you gameplan to get the kills with one of your smashes then you'll probably be missing some reads and making yourself unsafe.

 

[popsofctown]

Dsmash is frame 5, so sometimes it works as a punish.