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Secondaries?

leekslap

Smash Ace
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Ness, IMO, has problems with characters who have a better neutral/camping ability than him, can gimp him, and outprioritize him whether through disjoints or speed. This is your Robins, your Sheiks, and your Foxes. Characters who can camp him easily but are not good close range don't really count. Ness really relies on reads which I'm luckily godlike at. But sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm losing because I'm playing bad. Sheiks and Robins in particular I just despise. Secondaries that I've tried are Shulk, DK, Pikachu, Duck Hunt, and Fox. Am I even on the right track? What are all of Ness's bad matchups?
 

ATH_

Smash Ace
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I like Falcon a lot as my secondary, because then it leaves very few things left to cover. I have a pocket Sheik to combat any Rosalina player, since Falcon can basically handle anything Ness can't.

Someone with good range and combo potential would work really well, imo. So I chose Falcon. Characters such as Sheik, Link/TL, Diddy, and Fox would fit the bill. You were on the right track imo. Shulk and Pikachu are also pretty good, but then you'd likely notice Fox being a tough matchup.
 

RanserSSF4

Banned via Administration
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I officially decided to make Yoshi my secondary.

Both him and my main Falcon are similar in terms of playstyles, and I perfer playing Falcon more, Yoshi covers the following weaknesses that Falcon has:

- Having a projectile
- Can edgeguard easier than Falcon
- Better recovery
- Better OOS options
 

XCounter

Smash Apprentice
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I was thinking the exact same thing. I've been experimenting with Luigi and Pikachu and messing with Falcon and Link since I've used them in every game, but I'm not too sure which one to stick with.

I feel like as Ness I'd potentially have trouble against Sheik, Rosalina, Fox, Diddy, Marth, Pikachu, Yoshi, Luigi and Sonic (I say potentially because I have literally no experience against any of these characters at the level I want to get to).

My first thought was to stick with Falcon since he's always been one of my mains, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable in a match against Sheik or even a solid Pikachu or Yoshi.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
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Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
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Ness, IMO, has problems with characters who have a better neutral/camping ability than him, can gimp him, and outprioritize him whether through disjoints or speed. This is your Robins, your Sheiks, and your Foxes. Characters who can camp him easily but are not good close range don't really count. Ness really relies on reads which I'm luckily godlike at. But sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm losing because I'm playing bad. Sheiks and Robins in particular I just despise. Secondaries that I've tried are Shulk, DK, Pikachu, Duck Hunt, and Fox. Am I even on the right track? What are all of Ness's bad matchups?
Ness has no need for a secondary. Ness has only three, or maybe four bad matchups. Sonic, Rosalina, Sheik, and Diddy. He doesn't really lose to anyone else. At this stage in the metagame anyways.

Ness beats Robin because he has to be so careful with his thunder and arcfire. Robin relies on both of those specials heavily, and forcing him to use them sparingly because of the magnet hurts Robin a hell of a lot. While Ness usually has trouble with large disjointed aerials, Robin's air speed is so poor that he can't space or wall with them in a threatening way. Robin is a very mediocre character, adn I actually think that Ness beats Robin. Only slightly though.

Ness also doesn't have trouble with Fox. Fox's range is very short, and he can have trouble getting past our sh fair. He also dies incredibly early to our bthrow because of his light weight and fast fall speed. We can interrupt both his side b and up b with pk thunder when he's recovering as well. Now Fox has other advantages that help him significantly in this matchup, but this matchup is quite firmly even.

Ness loses to Sonic, Sheik, Rosalina, and maybe Diddy for a variety of reasons. Which one is the worst will probably come down to your playstyle of Ness. Different characters handle different types of Ness players to varying degrees. However these three characters do have a solid advantage against Ness (I think the Diddy matchup is even). Despite the fact that he loses to these characters, you should never lose to a Sonic, Sheik, or Rosalina player who's worse than you. The matchups are bad for us, but they're perfectly doable and if you are a better you won't have difficulty winning. Playing against players on the same level, or who are better than you, you will have a lot of difficulty against these three characters. If you sit down and learn these matchups, you'll start to become confident in them. I actually enjoy seeing Rosalinas in bracket. I have become quite adept at the matchup, and I have a lot of confidence in it. Ditto for Sheik. I'm not as confident against Sonic but I'm getting there.

There is no need for a secondary. Ness is a great character and has no awful matchups. A couple of bad ones, but none are significant disadvantages for us. I have only used Ness in tournament thus far, and plan on continuing to do so. I've never felt that I was held back or limited by picking Ness in a match. So if you want to solo main Ness, have no fear!

If you do wanna pick up a secondary though, pick a character that does well against Sonic, Sheik, and Rosalina. Those are Ness's problematic matchups. Not very many characters do well against all three of those characters. But find a secondary that has a matchup you prefer for those characters.
 

PixelPerfect

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Usually, I go with Falcon or Pikachu since they both have great combo potential and with Falcon's speed and Pikachu's smaller hurtbox, they usually take care of those match-ups. I'm still experimenting though.
 

j3lly

Smash Cadet
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Aug 25, 2014
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35
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I personally struggle with campier characters that force Ness to approach so Fox is my secondary. I have a pocket Sheik in case things get really bad.
 

Tikao

Smash Ace
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Oct 30, 2012
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618
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Berlin, Germany
I recently started to pick up Sheik, just because she is realy fun, rather than her being that good.

She has one of the best tools in the game to force people to approach you and she is realy fast, even more so if you compare her to Ness' speed.

But you realy start to notice how good Ness' kill options actually are after playing sheik.

if ness and sheik decided to have a child together, you would get the ultimate psi-ninja, who has insane speed, insane combo potential and insane killoptions.
 

ilysm

sleepy
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Jul 13, 2014
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648
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I actually play Falcon as a secondary and Jiggs as a rare tertiary, but I don't really have a reason for these other than that I've always liked the characters. Falcon's a pretty good zone breaker, and just ridiculously fun to play. I agree with largely everything Draconoa said, though.
 

Earthbound360

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Might wanna pick up Diddy just because he plays somewhat similar to Ness in a way, so he won't feel too foreign, and he can manage the Sonic and Sheik matchup better.

I personally use Gunner and Luigi just because i like them.
 

Meccs

@Meccs_
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708
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I've started using Pikachu more, he's probably my only character Other than Ness. I also play Doc once I've tired of Ness and Pika. So right now for me its Ness >>>>>>> Pika >>> Doc. I used Jiggs and Ganon on 3DS but not anymore.

Also I personally think Sonic and Rosalina, and maybe Sheik, are Ness' only true bad matchups (and even then I don't think Sheik is 100% bad, as he as a good combo and approaching game on her) so if you're chosing somebody just to not have to play Ness' bad matchups, I'd focus on someone who can deal with Sonic and Rosalina.
 
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XCounter

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I've decided to use Pikachu and Sonic alongside Ness. I have a lot of fun using them and I reckon they'll be able to cover Ness's harder matchups.

I also really like Captain Falcon, Link and Luigi, but I can't see myself taking any of them much further in this game.
 

Uffe

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I use Samus. She's fun to use and does well against projectile heavy characters. If the opponent has a reflector, she can zair them. I don't know Ness' bad match ups, but here is my personal list in the order I have trouble with the most.

Mega Man
Toon Link
Rosalina & Luma
Yoshi
Sonic
Bowser
King Dedede

There are probably a few more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
 
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Ranias

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I play Bowser as a secondary for fun. It is a nice contrast in playstyles. Bowser does really well against lower-skilled players, but I don't get much success with him at top level.

I've also dabbled with Lucina, Villager, Lucario, and others in order to find characters against the few bad matchups that Ness has, but I've always had the most success just staying Ness.
 
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SirBacon

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I use Mac and ness but I'm not fast enough to use fox or sheik any ideas??? I can play bowser but I'm not very good with him he just doesn't suit my patient playstyle
 

krakkenchaos

Smash Rookie
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Aug 6, 2014
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I use Pacman, Bowser Jr. or Dark Pit. There's no real reason for that though other than that I like them.
 

Chihiro Fujisaki

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ness is like, one of the best characters this time around, so theres not much need. some characters can still be tougher to fight then others with ness though, so for a counterpick?

well, i guess i use lucario OR greninja for a counterpick, but thats just me feel, free to follow suit. i reccomend greninja, lucarios only my secound hand main bc hes one of my favorites and i happen to have a really good track record with him.
 

Sir_Zedd

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I recently picked Diddy back up to deal with Sheik, Sonic and other Diddys.

Ness is fine everywhere else, sometimes I pull out peach as a mixup though because she plays so differently.

In all honesty though, I feel like Ness could overcome his bad matchups with enough practice against them.
 

Earthbound360

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Ness has no desperate need for a backup. Nothing unwinnable. Uncomfortable maybe.
 
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Lochy

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I would suggest sheik. She is my secondary and she has improved my ness game a lot. She is fast and can camp which is something Ness struggles against. Whenever you main a character your secondary should usually be one of there worst match ups. But it doesn't have to be
 
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Dr. Eggplant

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
11
I actually enjoy seeing Rosalinas in bracket.
Sounds like you haven't played any exceptionally good Rosalinas. I ended up fighting against Dabuz's Rosalina in doubles at Apex and that **** was gimp city. I played safe but literally every single stock he took off me was a gimp, with Rosalina's recovery its not like I could go so far down or to the side that I could get away from him. Against really skilled players, this matchup feels almost impossible. Of course, you could give the advice of just not getting hit off the stage but comeon, how realistic is that? Even skilled players will probably end up having to use their recovery at one point or another.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
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Sounds like you haven't played any exceptionally good Rosalinas. I ended up fighting against Dabuz's Rosalina in doubles at Apex and that **** was gimp city. I played safe but literally every single stock he took off me was a gimp, with Rosalina's recovery its not like I could go so far down or to the side that I could get away from him. Against really skilled players, this matchup feels almost impossible. Of course, you could give the advice of just not getting hit off the stage but comeon, how realistic is that? Even skilled players will probably end up having to use their recovery at one point or another.
I haven't played against Dabuz but I have faced Xaltis's Rosalina in bracket. He's not as good as Dabuz, but he's definitely the second best Rosalina in the US. I even took a game off him. I find her aerials and smash a lot more challenging than the gravitational pull gimp.
 

BlackPhantom

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I'm picking ness as a secondary to Sonic (Who has trouble with zoners) and ness is like my top 5 favorite in this game
 

SirBacon

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So I played Mac and ness but I just decided to drop Mac so who would be a good replacement? Ness is still my all time main but I just need a secondary and maybe a pocket
 

BlackPhantom

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I played sheik but I'm just not technical enough for her right now I'm deciding between pikachu fox and captain. I could try to work on sheik but idk
She has answers in almost if not every matchup, so its just nice to have one
 

Shaymikyu

Destruction in Hedgehog Form
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Robin and Marth are my secondaries (or rather, co-mains). The former I just like the feel for and has a few fun tricks that can be used, and the latter is nice for when I'm fighting an opponent where using projectiles would be unfavorable.
 

L9999

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I recently started to pick up Sheik, just because she is realy fun, rather than her being that good.

She has one of the best tools in the game to force people to approach you and she is realy fast, even more so if you compare her to Ness' speed.

But you realy start to notice how good Ness' kill options actually are after playing sheik.

if ness and sheik decided to have a child together, you would get the ultimate psi-ninja, who has insane speed, insane combo potential and insane killoptions.
So Smash 4's Ness and Sheik child would be Brawl Meta Knight.
 

Yink

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I actually stick to Mega more than Ness, but I do feel Ness covers Mega pretty well (and, it's actually not too difficult to go back and fourth between them). I dunno, I'd consider Mega a good secondary as well if you're willing to put some time and effort into him.
 

NSunderdog

Smash Rookie
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May 24, 2014
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i co main sheik and always find the match ups seem to hit one or the other imo and currently dabbling in z samus
 

SirBacon

Smash Cadet
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i agree with everyone saying sheik is great for ness. They both play similar having similar tool kits. They both are aggressive and defensive capable and they fit similar movesets. As for a pocket I personally think diddy is best. He also is the same type of character and fills in the last spots you might have open.
 

90007000

Smash Ace
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Mar 28, 2015
Messages
556
This is what I do: I first use Shulk to test how good my opponent is. If he was a noob and played a character I played, I would switch to that character to troll him. If he's a noob and doesn't play a character I play, i immediately switch to Ganondorf/Little Mac.( Easy to beat noobs with) If my opponent was okay, I switch to Ness. ( Nice combos and is easy to learn. ) If the guy I'm playing is good, I switch to Falcon. ( Heavy combo potential, is fun to play and easy to learn. ) ( I pocket Falcon. )
 

ShortRound

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I wouldn't call them "secondaries" because every character I play as I use about the same amount. Anyways, other characters I use are Marth and Captain Falcon. Sometimes I use Falco if I feel like they are really good at gimping me while I'm recovering as Ness so I can have a better recovery. I also play as Shulk a lot too, but I don't think I'm as good with him as I am with everyone else I play as.
 
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