Secondaries to compliment pac?

[PacMain92201]

So I was on for glory beating everyone and then I came across a villager. Let me tell you that he knew how to press the b button and make my life miserable. At one point, I did the bair key catch trick and started z dropping it. It turns out, any bonus fruit that villager pockets, he holds it as an item the next time he takes it out. Now HE started z dropping my key on my hydrant, on me, comboed into fairs and bairs, etc. To top it all off, he intercepted my side b recovery, and gimped me by pocketing the trampoline so I couldnt jump on it again. At this moment, i realized I need a secondary. Who do u pac mains have as secondaries?

 

[Spirst]

For me, Villager has always been manageable so long as you're smart with how you use your items and make it a point to not go too far offstage where he can easily come back and gimp you. I prefer the default key a lot of the time in this matchup because of how quick it is which makes it unpredictable/harder to pocket. I typically try to bait them into pocketing a hydrant so I can place another then B-reverse a Key into it. Pac Man can side B the default lloid rockets to explode it and drop a pellet/heal. Pushy lloids won't break though so SH apples are decent. Strawberry pops both balloons which is good to know. Both of you have crappy grabs but Pacman has better CQC overall. Frame 3 nairs on both but Villager will have a harder time keeping Pacman out than Pacman will Villager. If there's no customs (thus no pushy lloid and counter timber), then Pacman isn't really forced to approach and can keep flinging hydrants and other things at Villager.

That being said, I also use Greninja/Duck Hunt with Duck Hunt occupying a similar hybrid niche but a more effective "instant" game because of no need to charge. DH offers a lot of disjoints and has room for creativity with Can setups and gunmen usage. Greninja is a good ambush/zone breaker character and has the overall best mobility in the game sans Brawler. However, also has some issues with Sonic/Sheik. He does fine vs Rosalina though in my opinion which is great considering how Pacman vs Rosalina goes.

 

[Jay-kun]

Rayman is my secondary.

 

[PacMain92201]

If mewtwo compliments pac man then that'll be my secondary

 

[fromundaman]

I'm looking for one myself. Rosalina pretty much forces us to have a second.
I was using Megaman, but I may have to drop him since he does "okay" at best against Rosalina and "Abysmal" at worst, depending on the stage.

I've been told Sonic is a good secondary to pick up, but haven't really tried yet.

 

[Puppyfaic]

Ironically, I main Rosalina but am considering seconding Pac-Man. I would assume the reverse would also work well.

 

[Firedemon0]

Personally I have Falcon and Wario as secondaries. I am repping Pac-man hard however, and am focused more on him even in unfavorable matchups.

 

[Pacack]

I play Marth, and he's definitely good against certain annoying characters (see: Rosalina), even if he's not great against all of them (see: Link).

 

[Paper Maribro]

I picked up Yoshi as my secondary. Mainly for the Yoshi, Rosalina and Sonic MUs, all of which Yoshi makes a hell of a lot easier.

 

[Puppyfaic]

I picked up Yoshi as my secondary. Mainly for the Yoshi, Rosalina and Sonic MUs, all of which Yoshi makes a hell of a lot easier.

Yoshi makes Yoshi easier? What?

 

[Paper Maribro]

Well it turns an unfavourable MU into a mirror match.

 

[Nu~]

I have pit for rosa to protect my sanity (no one wants to play that meticulously lol)
Everything else is very manageble. Especially with customs.

 

[Jay-kun]

lol guys im in school right now (supposedely taking a test)
XD still waiting for Rayman news ITS TUESDAY!!

 

[Nu~]

lol guys im in school right now (supposedely taking a test)
XD still waiting for Rayman news ITS TUESDAY!!

Get back to work boyo

 

[PacMain92201]

Ironically, I main Rosalina but am considering seconding Pac-Man. I would assume the reverse would also work well.

Hmm now that has me wondering if I should secondary rosalina

 

[Nu~]

Scratch that, meta knight is the awesome secondary that we need. Beats rosa and fox.
And he's awesome

 

[PacMain92201]

Scratch that, meta knight is the awesome secondary that we need. Beats rosa and fox.
And he's awesome

Is that serious? Sorry I can't really tell

 

[Nu~]

100% serious. I contemplated co-maiming him before, but now it's guaranteed.

 

[Phampy]

I have Jiggs and Shulk backing up my Pacman. My Jiggs and Pac are on a whole different level than my Shulk though. Jiggs is useful against Fox since well placed nairs and fairs destroy Fox offstage. Not sure who I'd use against Rosalina though

 

[PacMain92201]

100% serious. I contemplated co-maiming him before, but now it's guaranteed.

Yeah even though he got Nerfed hard imo he's still fairly good

 

[Pacack]

Personally, I can't play Meta Knight for the life of me.

Does't mean he's bad by any stretch of the imagination, but he definitely doesn't click with me.

 

[fromundaman]

I have pit for rosa to protect my sanity (no one wants to play that meticulously lol)
Everything else is very manageble. Especially with customs.

How is that MU? Pit is interesting in this game and definitely fits me more than sonic. I would love for him to body her.

 

[BSP]

I have pit for rosa to protect my sanity (no one wants to play that meticulously lol)

I am willing to go to time for every match in that MU and get by on 2% heals if it makes the Rosalina MU not 70:30. I don't think Namco would leave us hanging like that.

As for the topic, Mario is my second at this point (may try to bring him back to co-main status, but Pac-Man takes so much time...), but I try to go Pac-Man unless I'm really having an off day with him. Mario doesn't exactly excel in Pac-Man's bad MUs except possibly vs. Rosalina because Bthrow handles Luma so well.

Sonic is probably top 5 in this game, so he's not a bad choice at all. Unfortunately, I don't like how Sonic feels in this game so I haven't tried to seriously pick him back up yet, even though he's a great character now.

 

[AGES]

As far as secondaries are concerned I generally just switch between random high/top tier characters to see what I like, but I have been playing a lot of Pikachu lately alongside Pac, even more so compared to other characters I've been trying out.(except Duck Hunt but I more or less play him because I think hes super fun, almost a co-main) Pikachu seems to survive nicely in a lot of MUs that my Pac-Man tends to struggle in, especially Fox and Captain Falcon. I've also been hearing that he has an advantage vs Rosalina but I do not have very proper experience with that specific matchup yet so I can't tell for sure. Sonic is a solid pickup as well, I have been looking into him as well but haven't committed to anything. Can't go playing too many characters without my hands getting too full lol.

...Meta Knight beats Rosalina? Had a feeling he would just get outcamped by Luma tactics a lot.

 

[Po3T]

As secondary goes, I use Zelda and ZSS. I have been practicing with Duck Hunt more than ZSS but only because someone said I was good with him and I let it go to my head. Even so, Zelda is my goto after Pacman. Zelda is my kill character while Pac is my run the clock character. Nonetheless, I love Pac man and try to use him even if I am against Rosaluma, sonic or fox. If I see my progress going nowhere as far as securing a victory, Zelda and her "I can kill you >60%" Up B is my follow up.

 

[Nu~]

I am willing to go to time for every match in that MU and get by on 2% heals if it makes the Rosalina MU not 70:30. I don't think Namco would leave us hanging like that.

Mad respect for you man. And I agree.
I actually don't believe that pac-man will end up anything lower than high tier. I don't really think that pac-man needs a secondary persay, it would just make his 2 annoying matchups (fox and rosa) easier.
After using meta knight, I've realized that while I love his combos and ability to weave through traps, I find him very boring. You have to bait and punish, and you have a similar gameplan every match.
I LOVE the options that pac-man has and his creativity-driven gameplan(s).
He can be played in a multitude of different ways effectively. He doesn't have one playstyle.

It's for that reason, that I think I may stick with having Pac-Man and Pit as mains. I love their options. I'm definitely going to put more work into pac-man though. I want to find ways to make our unfavorable matchups easier.
Customs already remedy this a bit. On-fire hydrant is beautiful for fox or any other rush down character (even though we don't struggle against any other rush down cheracter in smash 4)
Freaky fruit/meteor trampoline give us the easy kill set ups that we lack, and dire hydrant is a HUGE danger to luma and is fast enough to dodge GP.

How is that MU? Pit is interesting in this game and definitely fits me more than sonic. I would love for him to body her.

Pit goes even or has a slight advantage against rosa IMO. He completely wrecks her offstage, and has the range/priority to deal with her on stage. However, most importantly, Pit/dark pit have very good options to take care of luma.
Customs give the pits the piercing arrows that skewer Luma, and impact orbitars that smack Luma away. Dark pit's electroshock arm is even better, since it always sends Luma offstage from the middle of fd.
I just love his versatility and options.
It's part of the reason why I use Pac-Man; so many options and creative uses for tools.

 

[PacMain92201]

Mad respect for you man. And I agree.
I actually don't believe that pac-man will end up anything lower than high tier. I don't really think that pac-man needs a secondary persay, it would just make his 2 annoying matchups (fox and rosa) easier.
After using meta knight, I've realized that while I love his combos and ability to weave through traps, I find him very boring. You have to bait and punish, and you have a similar gameplan every match.
I LOVE the options that pac-man has and his creativity-driven gameplan(s).
He can be played in a multitude of different ways effectively. He doesn't have one playstyle.

It's for that reason, that I think I may stick with having Pac-Man and Pit as mains. I love their options. I'm definitely going to put more work into pac-man though. I want to find ways to make our unfavorable matchups easier.
Customs already remedy this a bit. On-fire hydrant is beautiful for fox or any other rush down character (even though we don't struggle against any other rush down cheracter in smash 4)
Freaky fruit/meteor trampoline give us the easy kill set ups that we lack, and dire hydrant is a HUGE danger to luma and is fast enough to dodge GP.



Pit goes even or has a slight advantage against rosa IMO. He completely wrecks her offstage, and has the range/priority to deal with her on stage. However, most importantly, Pit/dark pit have very good options to take care of luma.

Very true. With customs seeming to be legal in most places now, we now have more tools to change our MU ratio. Also, can you explain the benefits of the dire hydrant? For me, I dont see many but since you say it helps in the rosa MU now I'm curious.

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah I won't be participating in any custom tournaments.

Does Pit normally do well against Rosa or does he need customs for that?

 

[Nu~]

Yeah I won't be participating in any custom tournaments.

Does Pit normally do well against Rosa or does he need customs for that?

Pit and Dark Pit still have better disjoints, and non custom electroshock arm on dark pit sends luma flying. They also have a lot of mult hit attacks that unsynch rosa and luma

Very true. With customs seeming to be legal in most places now, we now have more tools to change our MU ratio. Also, can you explain the benefits of the dire hydrant? For me, I dont see many but since you say it helps in the rosa MU now I'm curious.

Dire hydrant is awesome in the matchup because it harasses luma and can't be absorbed as easily as the other hydrants.

 

[Jay-kun]

well, pac man isn't the most creative character imo. once u know the tricks the real creativity is in how u use them.. it's just that he gives the opportunity to use them

 

[Nu~]

well, pac man isn't the most creative character imo. once u know the tricks the real creativity is in how u use them.. it's just that he gives the opportunity to use them

That's what I meant. That his multitude of options and tools lead to a lot of creativity (and he is a very creatively designed character is you study him long enough)
He isn't locked into one playstyle like say, Zelda.

Back on topic:
... I'm starting to miss my mega man. I'm just going to co-main him.
Feels wrong to leave him when I haven't even fully discovered what he can do yet, and he's still incredibly fun.
I'm still keeping pit though.

 

[fromundaman]

That's what I meant. That his multitude of options and tools lead to a lot of creativity (and he is a very creatively designed character is you study him long enough)
He isn't locked into one playstyle like say, Zelda.

Back on topic:
... I'm starting to miss my mega man. I'm just going to co-main him.
Feels wrong to leave him when I haven't even fully discovered what he can do yet, and he's still incredibly fun.
I'm still keeping pit though.

God I know... I'm still occasionally using him even as I try to phase him out (Ended up using him 2 games at yesterday's tournament). He's so much fun; I wish he actually helped with my bad MUs. Oh well, at least he bodies Falcon...

 

[Nu~]

God I know... I'm still occasionally using him even as I try to phase him out (Ended up using him 2 games at yesterday's tournament). He's so much fun; I wish he actually helped with my bad MUs. Oh well, at least he bodies Falcon...

Yeah man.
And it's strange that you have trouble with falcon, a lot of pac-mains find him easy (one of our best matchups among the high tiers)

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah man.
And it's strange that you have trouble with falcon, a lot of pac-mains find him easy (one of our best matchups among the high tiers)

Oh I don't think it's a hard matchup, it's just that the MU is ridiculously easy with Megaman to the point where I'll usually play Megaman in that MU if I think the other guy is a better player than me.

 

[Po3T]

That's what I meant. That his multitude of options and tools lead to a lot of creativity (and he is a very creatively designed character is you study him long enough)
He isn't locked into one playstyle like say, Zelda.

I actually use Zelda for that one purpose, One simple play style. Also, because of that is why I play Pac-Man, the creativity (like you said), his multiple play styles is what keep people guessing. And just the pure fun I have with him. I can't stress this enough, but I am still new to all of this so my mains are not set in stone. Pac-man just feels right, while Zelda has a more nostalgic feel. Duck Hunt is just too funny and ZSS is for the pure satisfaction of Up Air x2 to Up-B.

 

[Puppyfaic]

Pac-Man is weird. He can play a hyper-aggressive game without using any projectiles or traps or anything, since his normals are good enough. But he can also sit back and chuck fruit ant hydrants. It's weird.

 

[NimbusSpark]

In my opinion - just play with who you feel works well for you.
I assume that most people consider the point of a secondary is to counter threats than can beat your main, when really, the point of a secondary is a character that you're good with, but assumingly not as good as your own main.
- I mean, if you're terrible with a character that you consider your 'secondary' which can counter a certain MU, then are you really going to do better against that MU with your secondary than you are doing it with your own main?
- Also, it must be boring playing as a character that doesn't tailor to your playstyle. Sure, you may be able to win some fights, but are you really having fun playing Smash Bros? The point of a video game is primarily to entertain, not to become some massive competitive battle.

Just pick your secondary based on how you like them. It's boring to play a good character that you don't like. If the character is good in performance, AND you like them, great! Just remember that this game is fun first and competition second.

 

[fromundaman]

In my opinion - just play with who you feel works well for you.
I assume that most people consider the point of a secondary is to counter threats than can beat your main, when really, the point of a secondary is a character that you're good with, but assumingly not as good as your own main.
- I mean, if you're terrible with a character that you consider your 'secondary' which can counter a certain MU, then are you really going to do better against that MU with your secondary than you are doing it with your own main?
- Also, it must be boring playing as a character that doesn't tailor to your playstyle. Sure, you may be able to win some fights, but are you really having fun playing Smash Bros? The point of a video game is primarily to entertain, not to become some massive competitive battle.

Just pick your secondary based on how you like them. It's boring to play a good character that you don't like. If the character is good in performance, AND you like them, great! Just remember that this game is fun first and competition second.

This is only correct if you don't plan to play competitively.

While it is clear that you shouldn't play a character you're not good with, the entire point of a secondary IS to have someone to counter characters and playstyles you can't deal with. Picking a secondary with the same bad matchups as your main is counter-productive as said bad matchup will still end your tournament run if you hit them in bracket.

An example of this would be how I played Pacman/Megaman. I'm not bad with either of them, but keeping both of these characters at tournament level makes no sense since both of them lose to Rosalina and arguably Fox (I say arguably because I am not convinced Pacman loses that MU yet). Both of these characters can knock me out of a tournament if I stick with just these 2 characters, whereas a tournament level Mario secondary could keep me alive should I hit these characters.

 

[Nu~]

(I say arguably because I am not convinced Pacman loses that MU yet).

I'm not the only one!?
Hmm, interesting. What do you think the matchup is and why?

 

[Neutricity]

Pac-Man vs Mario is only good when you fight on For Glory, but when you fight in tournament the match is hell because better player. I'm picking up Pit to counter that.