SBR Recommended Rule List Discussion: Brawl

[B@sic Sausage]

Your sarcasm is overwhelming

yo face is overwhelming

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

yo face is overwhelming

ly beautiful

 

[Sliq]

Ok guy you don't know what your talking about, I am a so called "Kirby fan" also but Green Greens has the easily exploding bombs and the distance between the edges and the offstage is too short for Starter play. -_-

There is a difference between ban, counter pick, and neutral there dipshit. I'm not saying it should be neutral, I'm saying it isn't ban worthy.

And it has nothing to do with something as arbitrary as "fandom."

The bombs are always in the same place (where the blocks are) so they are easy to avoid. They also aren't invisible, making them easy to avoid, as well. Jungle Japes is really big, but it isn't banned because its blast zone is different. How do you think these are legit arguments?

I also like how you come off as pretentious when you say "I am a so called 'Kirby fan'." I don't even know how this is relevant or why quotes were necessary.

 

[The_Altrox]

If a game ends with Bowser doing his suicide klaw and it ends in sudden death, the sudden death will be ignored and that game will count as a win for Bowser.

What about Ganoncide, Wariocide, Kirbycide, and DDDcide? Shouldn't those count too?

 

[Overswarm]

If a game ends with Bowser doing his suicide klaw and it ends in sudden death, the sudden death will be ignored and that game will count as a win for Bowser.

What about Ganoncide, Wariocide, Kirbycide, and DDDcide? Shouldn't those count too?

Please read the thread.

 

[Kief]

hey can somebody tell me what it takes for a tournament to count towards the characters' meta games? like how big does it have to be and what kind of documentation does it need? i cant find this anywhere.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Technically tournaments don't count towards anybody's metagames, its how they fight against the other characters in the tournament. It basically proves skill of the player to beat the other people.

 

[CaliburChamp]

All those starter stages seems to be good Snake stages, not neutral for him. Although I do like these starter stages more, especially with Castle Siege as a starter to help characters with bad recoveries like Link.

I don't understand why Frigate orpheon isn't a neutral. The stage gives you a fair warning, of when not to be on the ground. When you hear that alarm sound, that means, get off the GROUND and JUMP! You will survive everytime. People are just too stupid to realize that, and just stay on the ground, then they lose a stock. With that said, move Frigate Orpheon into a starter stage.

Also, I think's its ridiculous that Bridge of Eldin is in the banned list just because of DDD's chaingrab, just stage strike it against DDD. The stage may be big, but it's the most fair large stage there is. Matches won't take so long there like mentioned because you can't camp on the ledges, and there aren't any platforms where you can jump around on to run away from your opponent. It should be counter pick at least.
Overall there is alot of things I agree on and don't agree on. But its definitly better than last seasons starter stages.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

All those starter stages seems to be good Snake stages, not neutral for him. Although I do like these starter stages more, especially with Castle Siege as a starter to help characters with bad recoveries like Link.

The thing good about neutrals is that they are GOOD for EVERYBODY. Sure some characters have more advantages on them, but then you can ban the stages

I don't understand why Frigate orpheon isn't a neutral. The stage gives you a fair warning, of when not to be on the ground. When you hear that alarm sound, that means, get off the GROUND and JUMP! You will survive everytime. People are just too stupid to realize that, and just stay on the ground, then they lose a stock. With that said, move Frigate Orpheon into a starter stage.

First off, the first part, the place you are when the match starts, has NO LEDGE on the right side, it only has that moving platform. What happens if you are somebody with a tether recovery, or ike, and when you try to recover to that side, the platform moves up and you die because the stage ****ed you up? How is that fair?

Sure, the alarm makes it obvious when you are going to flip, but what happens if you are put on the floor and forced to roll, or hell, you could even trip when its about to flip because you want to get one last hit in before you jump. Then you trip, it flips, and you are put in a really awkward position, and can be killed because the almightly Sakurai decided to trip you at that particular moment...your skill, or lack thereof, had nothing to do with it. With that said, your argument sucks.

Also, I think's its ridiculous that Bridge of Eldin is in the banned list just because of DDD's chaingrab, just stage strike it against DDD. The stage may be big, but it's the most fair large stage there is.

There are more than one characters with CGs. DDD, Falco, and Pikachu are the 3 main ones. They can all take you to the end of the stage. Also, its unfair to have to ban a stage against somebody just because they play a character and you will almost always lose to that character because of one ability he has.

Matches won't take so long there like mentioned because you can't camp on the ledges, and there aren't any platforms where you can jump around on to run away from your opponent. It should be counter pick at least.
Overall there is alot of things I agree on and don't agree on. But its definitly better than last seasons starter stages.

Wow...really? Large stages make it more unfair for characters. The heavy characters survive even longer, and the people with lack of killing potential get severely screwed over because of it. Also, no camping? Ledgecamping isn't the only way you can camp. Let's see...the center of the stage breaks. You are playing against a pit. The pit stays on the right side of the level and you are on the left. He starts spamming arrows until you approach. When you do approach, he grabs you and back-throws you to death becasue of the small sides.

 

[Inui]

All those starter stages seems to be good Snake stages, not neutral for him. Although I do like these starter stages more, especially with Castle Siege as a starter to help characters with bad recoveries like Link.

I don't understand why Frigate orpheon isn't a neutral. The stage gives you a fair warning, of when not to be on the ground. When you hear that alarm sound, that means, get off the GROUND and JUMP! You will survive everytime. People are just too stupid to realize that, and just stay on the ground, then they lose a stock. With that said, move Frigate Orpheon into a starter stage.

Also, I think's its ridiculous that Bridge of Eldin is in the banned list just because of DDD's chaingrab, just stage strike it against DDD. The stage may be big, but it's the most fair large stage there is. Matches won't take so long there like mentioned because you can't camp on the ledges, and there aren't any platforms where you can jump around on to run away from your opponent. It should be counter pick at least.
Overall there is alot of things I agree on and don't agree on. But its definitly better than last seasons starter stages.

Is this a serious post?

I can't tell because anyone that would post that stuff is either mentally handicapped or joking.

 

[Bailey]

I agree with CaliburChamp. Also I think it's fair to turn on Smash Balls because it's a game all in itself to actually get to thing for yourself. Plus you could miss so it's not even a guaranteed kill.

 

[CaliburChamp]

The thing good about neutrals is that they are GOOD for EVERYBODY. Sure some characters have more advantages on them, but then you can ban the stages


First off, the first part, the place you are when the match starts, has NO LEDGE on the right side, it only has that moving platform. What happens if you are somebody with a tether recovery, or ike, and when you try to recover to that side, the platform moves up and you die because the stage ****ed you up? How is that fair?

Sure, the alarm makes it obvious when you are going to flip, but what happens if you are put on the floor and forced to roll, or hell, you could even trip when its about to flip because you want to get one last hit in before you jump. Then you trip, it flips, and you are put in a really awkward position, and can be killed because the almightly Sakurai decided to trip you at that particular moment...your skill, or lack thereof, had nothing to do with it. With that said, your argument sucks.



There are more than one characters with CGs. DDD, Falco, and Pikachu are the 3 main ones. They can all take you to the end of the stage. Also, its unfair to have to ban a stage against somebody just because they play a character and you will almost always lose to that character because of one ability he has.


Wow...really? Large stages make it more unfair for characters. The heavy characters survive even longer, and the people with lack of killing potential get severely screwed over because of it. Also, no camping? Ledgecamping isn't the only way you can camp. Let's see...the center of the stage breaks. You are playing against a pit. The pit stays on the right side of the level and you are on the left. He starts spamming arrows until you approach. When you do approach, he grabs you and back-throws you to death becasue of the small sides.

Is this a serious post?

I can't tell because anyone that would post that stuff is either mentally handicapped or joking.

Think whatever you want. I know there is no point in talking to stubborn and egotistical people like Inui and ESAM. I was being serious and I'm definitly not mentally handicapped.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I agree with CaliburChamp. Also I think it's fair to turn on Smash Balls because it's a game all in itself to actually get to thing for yourself. Plus you could miss so it's not even a guaranteed kill.

You need to post like, a bajillion times a day Bailey. Seriously.

Think whatever you want. I know there is no point in talking to stubborn and egotistical people like Inui and ESAM. I was being serious and I'm definitly not mentally handicapped.

While Inui may be a prick (I'm kidding), ESAM legitimately disproved your argument without directly insulting your intelligence. It's not a matter of arrogance when the other side backs up their claims with facts.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Sliq]

I'm definitly not mentally handicapped.

I strongly disagree.

 

[Bailey]

I strongly agree bout disagreeing.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Think whatever you want. I know there is no point in talking to stubborn and egotistical people like Inui and ESAM. I was being serious and I'm definitly not mentally handicapped.

The fact that you didn't come back with more facts to disprove me proves that i won the argument...i didn't insult you, and if i did im sorry. I was posting that quickly before me and my family went to the movies (Failed attempt, everything was sold out)

 

[CaliburChamp]

The fact that you didn't come back with more facts to disprove me proves that i won the argument...i didn't insult you, and if i did im sorry. I was posting that quickly before me and my family went to the movies (Failed attempt, everything was sold out)

I already explained my thoughts already, and I don't feel like re typing all that up again. You made some good points. You can't win over opinionated arguments, so there is no point for me to argue any further. Everyone does what they want if they have the power to make up their own rules.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

That is true.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Why is Pictochat allowed as a counterpick when Wario Ware is not? They both have their share of hazards. Maybe we'll see Wario Ware in the banned/counterpick stage section? Any thoughts on that?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Why is Pictochat allowed as a counterpick when Wario Ware is not? They both have their share of hazards. Maybe we'll see Wario Ware in the banned/counterpick stage section? Any thoughts on that?

>__>

Wario Ware doles out advantages such as invincibility and big 'shrooms on the account that you win one of its minigames. The loser either gets shrunk or gets nothing at all.

Pictochat, on the other hand, just makes the stage a little more difficult to navigate (imo, some of the hazards are absolutely ludicrous and merit the stage a hardcore ban. But I digress). It doesn't DIRECTLY give you advantages like Wario Ware.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Kief]

Technically tournaments don't count towards anybody's metagames, its how they fight against the other characters in the tournament. It basically proves skill of the player to beat the other people.

i see. but the SBR uses tournamet results somehow for the tier list. i just want to know what kind of tournaments they use.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

They normally use somewhat big events from each of the regions. Obviously MK is owning because some of the best players in the nation, such as M2K, and DSF who are consistently winning and getting 2nd in the 2 biggest regions, are doing so well. I honestly don't know the formula, nobody does except the SBR.

 

[Kief]

They normally use somewhat big events from each of the regions. Obviously MK is owning because some of the best players in the nation, such as M2K, and DSF who are consistently winning and getting 2nd in the 2 biggest regions, are doing so well. I honestly don't know the formula, nobody does except the SBR.

ic ic.

so i guess that rules out the local tournament im attending next week with maybe 10 people lol. :\

 

[DanGR]

Forgive me if this question has already been elaborated on. I haven't payed much attention to this until now.

I'm wondering if the tactic commonly referred to as "planking" is banned by this recommended ruleset.

As you know, stalling is banned.

Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs most end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling.

The bolded part is what I'm wondering about. Does 'making the game unplayable' have to apply to all characters, or just one? If it only has to apply to just one character for it to be banned, can you justify keeping in DDD's infinite (even with a damage cap) but not planking?

I've got several more questions I could ask, but I'll keep this as laconic as possible.

 

[Ignatius]

>__>

Wario Ware doles out advantages such as invincibility and big 'shrooms on the account that you win one of its minigames. The loser either gets shrunk or gets nothing at all.

Pictochat, on the other hand, just makes the stage a little more difficult to navigate (imo, some of the hazards are absolutely ludicrous and merit the stage a hardcore ban. But I digress). It doesn't DIRECTLY give you advantages like Wario Ware.

Smooth Criminal

More or less this, random rewards on Warioware in the form of invincibility for performing the same task as someone else.

Pictochat is a very regimented level, each transformation lasts the same amount of time every time, and you can't have the same one twice before you have all of them. There's even multiple safe spots you can be at before the stage transforms even; not to mention how survivable all the hazards are to begin with. The only time you'll be getting hit by the hazards is if your opponent hits you into them.

I'm wondering if the tactic commonly referred to as "planking" is banned by this recommended ruleset.

No, they're still attackable on the ledge albeit difficult. There's a difference between stalling and camping.

 

[infomon]

To add on to DanGR's question, I have a real problem with Sonic. Sometimes I'll use Homing Attack to recover, and wind up underneath the stage. It's a really strange situation. The Homing Attack is pretty difficult to control unless you know what you're doing, but even then... Sonic will be in a position where he can't really control his "stalling", it's actually dependent on the opponent to drag Sonic wherever they want, or they can allow the Sonic to control it -- IF the Sonic knows how.

I'm not sure... under what circumstances, it could be called "stalling", or who would be blamed for the stall should it occur. O_o

 

[DanGR]

To add on to DanGR's question, I have a real problem with Sonic. Sometimes I'll use Homing Attack to recover, and wind up underneath the stage. It's a really strange situation. The Homing Attack is pretty difficult to control unless you know what you're doing, but even then... Sonic will be in a position where he can't really control his "stalling", it's actually dependent on the opponent to drag Sonic wherever they want, or they can allow the Sonic to control it -- IF the Sonic knows how.

I'm not sure... under what circumstances, it could be called "stalling", or who would be blamed for the stall should it occur. O_o

Well, if Sonic's homing attack under the stage is considered stalling at a tourney, and you accidentally do it, it doesn't matter whether you meant to or not.

Ex. Freezing the game is banned at all tourneys. If you accidentally froze the game, you still froze it.

 

[infomon]

Well, simply using HA under the stage can't possibly be stalling, since it's a recovery move, that the opponent could drag under the stage. Well, even if you meant for it to go under the stage, but the alternative was to die off the bottom of the stage; that's still gotta be considered legit. The Sonic can want to get back to the stage, but there's a problem if they don't know how / have the tech skill / the opponent doesn't let them.

The SBR rule list says stalling is "deliberate" ... I think it would be pretty tough to call scenarios some homing-attack scenarios. Also, depending on the stage and the opponent, they might be able to attack you without much problem..... in which case, is it really stalling?

I guess any clear guidelines or advice would help, but maybe I'll just assume that noone will be dumb enough to cancel a match when Homing Attack madness happens unintentionally.

 

[DanGR]

Yes, that makes sense.

I don't particularly like the way the SBR worded it. It's not clear enough.

I mean, look at the word "so" in the first sentence. Is it saying that stalling is deliberately avoiding any and all conflict that would make the game unplayable, or with the goal of making the game unplayable?

Sonic can stall under the stage with HA, but he might not being doing it in order to stall. As you said, he could be doing it because he's trying to recover and just messed up. If you go by that definition, (which wouldn't forbid the messed up recovery stalling) then you're able to DQ someone for simply trying to make the game unplayable, in which camping would fall under that definition.

Then again, we need a definition of "unplayable".

Or maybe I'm just making things overcomplicated. *sigh*

 

[infomon]

Hummm, liek, I guess it's worded to leave some subjective lee-way up to the TO, for simplicity's sake, and in hopes that a TO won't be a douche. So I just hope ppl understand Homing Attack and its stupidness involved in recovery sometimes, where I end up repeatedly going deeper into the bottom-centre of the stage, even while I'm trying to get back up

 

[Deoxys]

Seriously, I'm dying to see this new stage list... It's really coming today, right?

 

[Overswarm]

It isn't coming today.


Also, sonic's homing attack isn't stalling since your opponent can air dodge and make you fall... unless youfind a way to stall under the stage regardless, in which case you need to kill yourself.

 

[Inui]

It's going to be pretty funny, I bet.

 

[infomon]

Also, sonic's homing attack isn't stalling since your opponent can air dodge and make you fall... unless youfind a way to stall under the stage regardless, in which case you need to kill yourself.

You can Homing Attack "stall" regardless of the opponent. If your Homing Attack is against a wall/ceiling and no opponent's detected, it will rebound off. So just make sure you don't fall too much after each bounce, and the rise of the HA will continually bounce off the ceiling. With turnaround-B you can control the direction you bounce each way. It's pretty slow to move anywhere, but depends on the stage.

Problems come if your opponent keeps getting into range, thus changing the direction..... you can really mess with a Sonic that way. If the opponent wants to stall the match by dragging Sonic around, how is this called?

 

[Deoxys]

It isn't coming today.


Also, sonic's homing attack isn't stalling since your opponent can air dodge and make you fall... unless youfind a way to stall under the stage regardless, in which case you need to kill yourself.

When's it coming? When was the SBR going to tell us?

 

[Ukemi]

Is a modded Wii that only has the code for longer replay time considered modded? If so, it could prevent many tournaments from posting videos online for the benefit of the community. Also, if a new glitch or technique is occurs during a match, a replay can provide a more complete analysis as to the cause, giving different angles and zooms, instead of just a plain video from one perspective using a capture device. As of now we have not seen any impact this code has on the gameplay.

 

[Overswarm]

When's it coming? When was the SBR going to tell us?

When I get my paycheck I'll have my secretary send you a memo. Until then, just assume it will be released when it is finished and know we are working on it now.

 

[infomon]

When I get my paycheck I'll have my secretary send you a memo. Until then, just assume it will be released when it is finished and know we are working on it now.

When I get my hint, I'll have my paycheck send you a secretary. Until then, just assume a memo will be released when it is finished and you know we are working on it now.

 

[Deoxys]

When I get my paycheck I'll have my secretary send you a memo. Until then, just assume it will be released when it is finished and know we are working on it now.

So you're sarcastically telling me that you'll blow off any commitments you've made unless you're getting paid for them?

 

[Overswarm]

So you're sarcastically telling me that you'll blow off any commitments you've made unless you're getting paid for them?

No, I'm saying you already know we're working on it and it'll be done when it is done. I don't get paid for this, we don't have to do this.... but if we're going to, we're doing it right. Chillax.