SB ghost town- Pikachu general disscussion thread

[Paradoxium]

I've recently decided to pick up pikachu as a main. Why? Because very few people play as him. I came here for advice, expecting this thread to be thriving with life. But I found the opposite. I am here, asking advice from any pikachu player out there, how to I become better with pikachu. I have mained GnW, Bowser, Ganondorf, Sonic, KonkeyDong, and Mario. My current mains are now Zelda and Marth. I need a lot of help. If you are out there please speak up.

Some grade a creative writing right there.


*EDIT
We are changin this beast to the general disscussion thread

 

[sheNanagans]

Welcome to the barren Pikachu boards.

You can find a lot of the more in depth stuff around these boards, but here is what I can tell you from my personal experience.

I play a fairly aggressive pikachu but others seem to prefer a defensive pikachu.

I'm kinda gonna just add stuff as I think of it. (This may be kinda long and will certainly have bad formatting)

Pikachu's strength is almost entirely in his speed. He is insanely fast and has an amazing SHFFL game. I spend a large majority of matches just SHFFLing Nairs, Fairs, and Uairs to both bait opponents and to deal small amounts of damage. Pikachu's aerials also link very well into other attacks. Such as:

Auto Cancelled Fair ---> Any tilt/Up Smash (Best KO method in my opinion)
Nair / Fair ----> Grab
Uair (Hit straight above you hitbox) ---> More UAirs / Up Smash / Nair / Bair
Nair ---> Any aerial (Based on DI)
Nair / Fair ----> any Tilt (Utilt at low and very high percent or Ftilt/Dtilt for stage positioning)
Bair -----> Bair

I also like to cover my landing with tilts. For example if I NAIR and miss by landing right in front of someone I will immediatly Ftilt or Dtilt. If they aren't shielding it will poke them, landing 10% and I will get away unpunished. Pikachu doesn't need a lot of stacked damage to land a kill.


Killing with Pikachu is a very strange game. Pikachu has one of the strongest gimp games in the entire cast.

Up Air (Tail Spike) sends the enemy at a 45 or so degree angle from where they are hit, when spaced properly.
Thunder Jolt (Neutral B). Very good gimping projectile. It sends enemies down and away from where they are hit
B reversed thunder. Makes a wall of lightning between the enemy and the ledge. (To do this jump off stage, use thunder, and immedietly smash the analog stick towards the stage).
Down Air. Great for gimping characters recovering low. simply fall off stage and hit C-stick Down to avoid fast-falling

Pikachu's recovery is very good, which allows pikachu to chase enemies far off stage and return. With this in mind Pikachu players should always know when the opponent is in a gimpable position, and should almost certainly take their stock.


Pikachu was also gifted 3 amazing KO moves, Up Smash, F Smash, and Back Air.

Up Smash is a very fast move that kills most of the cast at very low percent. For example Jigglypuff will die to an Uncharged Up smash at around 50%.
However most smart opponents know that Up smash will kill them and will be expecting it. This makes it necessary to combo into Up smashes. Here are some of my favorites.

Auto Canceled Fair (To do this SHFFL a fair but use the fair late in your jump so that only the 1st hit box comes out) this leaves your opponent in stun for enough time to Upsmash (or Grab).

SHFFL Nair (use at Mid/High Percent depending on weight)

Tech Chase: Pikachu has an amazing tech chase game and can cover several character's techs on REACTION. this means that if you knock an opponent to the ground and you are fast enough you can simply follow their tech Roll and Up smash for a quick, easy kill.

Up throw/Down Throw. (Pikachu's Up throw can chain throw Spacies and at about 90-100% KO with Up smash) Down Throw can also lead to Up Smashes on mid weight characters.


Forward Smash is highly situational but can come in handy in a few situations (Mostly Edge Guarding) but should never be spammed. This is also Pikachu's Best (and really only) disjoint Hitbox.

Back air is a very good KO move because it allows Pikachu to be mobile and space with a powerful move (almost like a jigglypuff can space with back air)
Bair is very easy to combo into as well (really any time you can put the opponent above you you can bair). Try to hit your opponent with this move when they are near the edge of the stage for a quick kill.


Anyways, that should be a decent place start. Once you get the feel for pikachu a bit you can move onto the fancy stuff like Quick attack Cancelling.
Hope this helps a bit.

If you want to watch some Pikachu matches I have quite a few over on my Twitch
http://www.twitch.tv/shenanagans_/profile
you should be able to see where i use some of the techniques I described above

I also have a few videos I'm gonna post here soon from a tournament i was at all day today (Including a set with Ally).

Good luck with one of P:M's most entertaining and most difficult to master characters.

 

[Paradoxium]

Thanks for the advice, but I am not entirely new to pika because I mained him in melee. I have his speed and shffls all down along with knowledge on all his chain grabs and tech chases on the cast. I also play offensive pikachu and I have discovered wave dash into downsmash is surprisingly effective along with his up smash juggles. As for his fair I always just soft spot it, I never really thought of the auto cancel lol. My main concern are his new tools, especially qac. I have no idea how to do it. I also want to know an approach against falco's lasers or any projectiles, and an effective way to return the favor with shockwave. Also, is pika's up-b messed up cus whenever I sweet spot the ledge with the second attack I just go into special fall. And lastly, is it possible to chain pika's Up-Air on mid weights and light weights?

Thanks again for the help

 

[sheNanagans]

Oh cool. I also used pika a bit in melee which helped tremendously in the switch to PM. I guess ill just answer your questions here in order.

Question 1: Quick Attack (QA)

Quick Attack has a rediculous amount of utility. There are 5 ways to Cancel your Quick attack (That I know Of).

1. Jumping out of QA

Pretty simple, there is a 2 frame window to jump when your QA. As you practice this timing will get easier. Also the timing changes slightly when you hit an opponent with QA.

It is usually best to jump and Aerial or use a second QA

If the opponent is above you when you land from a QA jumping Nair/Uair can be a really good option.

I also like to QA through an opponent's shield and immediatly jump and Uair. The hitbox for Uair starts on the ground and is great for poking. It is also fast enough that if they jump out of shield to escape your QA the Uair still hits.

Learning this timing can be tricky but it gives Pikachu a great new movement and recovery option.


2. Hold Down after using a QA directly into a platform.

This will cause you to fall through the platform very quickly. Be careful doing this because if you touch the ground after falling through the platform without preforming an aerial or jumping you will have about half a second of landing lag. Usually when I do this I will try to QA behind my opponent on a platform, fall through, and Back air (which is a great way to move from off stage into an edgeguarding position).

I also like to use this tactic to move quickly about the stage. You can QA into a platform, hold down, then QA again. I use this mostly from off stage to get on stage again, then regain stage control.

3. Waveland from grounded QA

This technique is almost entirely outclassed by option #4 but it has a few uses. Also the timing for the waveland is the same timing as jumping out of a QA. You also dont need to jump to preform the waveland, you just press R and hold down.

Wavelanding after QA directly into a platform. You can do this to waveland off of the platform and do an aerial.

Wavelanding after a QA directly into the ground. This can help you gain slightly more or less distance based on if you waveland forwards or backwards.

You can do anything you normally can from a wavedash with this method (including smashes, tilts, ect.) but option 4 has less landing lag, allowing you to act out of your QA faster.


4. Auto-cancelled Aerial out of QA.

This is the fastest way to recover out of a QA. You need to input either Fair or Bair with the same timing that you would normally jump cancel a QA. This lets you attack nearly instantly out of a QA.

There are 3 ways to consistantly do this.
1. Flick C stick
2. smash Bair/Fair
3. If you are holding Forward just press A (easiest method but kinda situational).

Usually when you want to do this you you wall be holding forward so option 3 is pretty helpful, otherwise option 1 is the best.

After you cancel the aerial you will land (with almost zero landing lag) and can act out of it with anything you can do from a standing position.

You can also input a Dair with this timing which will hit with a quick attack that does 4% damage and has great knockback. This knockback is basically the same at any percent so it helps push characters away regardless of their percent. This is a great way to start a gimp because it pushes enemies off the stage and slightly down.

5. Instant Ledge Grab / Instant Ledge Cancel

This is a very difficult technique that I still Struggle with. I may be wrong (I am still not 100% sure how it works) but I believe that it works when you are anywhere above or on the stage and within 1 QA range of the ledge.

To preform the trick you need to QA like you are aiming straight at the ledge and as soon as you start to move toward the ledge the control stick needs to have been returned to neutral position.

If done correctly you will grab the ledge.

This takes a TON of practice to use successfully but it has amazing utility.

Basically when done correctly you grab the ledge VERY quickly. in fact you can do this technique to steal the ledge from a fox/falco, that is trying to sweetspot the ledge, AFTER THEY BEGIN MOVING INTO THE LEDGE (as long as you are prepared).

The second part to this trick is the Auto cancelled ledge cancel. This is preformed exactly the same as the Instant Ledge Grab but it needs to be at the far end of the QA's range. Instead of grabbing the ledge Pikachu will instantly ledge cancel and fall below the stage (which is amazing for gimping low recoveries)

The easiest way to practice this range is to roll into the ledge then roll away from the ledge. (the distance for the Ledge Cancel is about 1 roll distance away from the ledge).

That should be mostly the basics to QAC stuff. hopefully that helps

 

[sheNanagans]

Question 2: Falco

Falco is a very weird matchup for pikachu. Stages with platforms give Pikachu approaching options, but flat stages allow pikachu to Chain grab. as for approaches you have a few options.

1. Quick attack stuff (Kinda risky but can help in some situations) If you land on a platform above falco and platform cancel you can hit him with a fall through bair / Nair



2. Full Jump running forward T-jolt. This will work in some situations and will work in different ways. If you T-jolt after a full jump with forward momentum the Attack will kinda stick to Pikachu (sometimes this can act like a shield absorbing 1 laser othertimes it will hit falco, stunning him)


3. Power-shield This is a good option if you are confident in the timing. I play a lot of falcos and I have gotten kills just because of 1 power shield.


4. Staying on platforms. This forces falco to full Jump to hit you with lasers. You can run in after he full jumps pretty well.

Anyways heres some Falco matches I'v Had that may help.
http://www.twitch.tv/shenanagans_/c/2445232
http://www.twitch.tv/shenanagans_/c/2435254

Question 3: Messed up Quick Attack


Simple answer: Kinda

You need to QA above the ledge slightly to Sweetspot now. This is much easier to do from above the ledge then from below. It makes it much harder to sweetspot though

Question 4: Up Air Chains
Again, Simple answer: Kinda
You can't chain Uairs on floaties though. Midweights can be with a few factors. It depends on how the opponent DI's and also on which hitbox you use.

You can see this quite a bit in my match with Ally
http://www.twitch.tv/shenanagans_/c/2650442

1st game 3nd stock I chain several Uairs and even baited him into countering. But you can see how you kinda need to use the platforms to follow up.

That should wrap up those questions if you have anything else you want to ask go ahead and post it here.
I will also likely be streaming very soon on that twitch account and I use a lot of Pikachu when I play friendlies.

Anyways good luck and have fun, Pikachu is really fun to play and really unknown to most players.

 

[Paradoxium]

Thank you! Quick attack cancel alone seems like enough to make pikachu top tier, you've just opened up a plethora of new options and strategies. Why doesn't anyone else play as him, and why are these threads abandoned???

 

[sheNanagans]

Pikachu is nowhere near top tier (I think Pikachu would fit into bottom of mid tier). Pikachu is destroyed by crouch canceling and any character with a quick disjoint hitbox (in my experience).

Not sure why the boards are abandoned though. Pikachu is still a really decent character.

 

[Player -0]

Pikachu is nowhere near top tier (I think Pikachu would fit into bottom of mid tier). Pikachu is destroyed by crouch canceling and any character with a quick disjoint hitbox (in my experience).

Not sure why the boards are abandoned though. Pikachu is still a really decent character.

To kind of awkwardly point out on a dead thread: The brawl Pika boards are pretty quiet, although the talking's done mainly in the question and social thread.

 

[sheNanagans]

To kind of awkwardly point out on a dead thread: The brawl Pika boards are pretty quiet, although the talking's done mainly in the question and social thread.

Yeah were kinda slow here in the pika boards. and most of our talking is also in the social thread. However, there really isnt much talking overall.

 

[Juushichi]

start a pikachu skype

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

So, uhh, I wanted to talk about some Pika stuff. Primarily on getting back to the stage from the ledge. I will start off with a list of the basics then go off into the complex stuff.

Ledge Roll
Ledge Jump
Ledge Get Up
DJ Fair / Nair / Uair / Dair
DJ thunder jolt ( DONT LAND ON STAGE, JUST UP - B BACK TO THE LEDGE!!!)

Thats the basics that pretty much every character with a projectile has.
But, Pikachu has a wall jump. This opens an enormous amount of options for her.

Wall Jump Bair / Uair - So your opponent has been at high percents for a while now, or he has been shield grabbing your attempts at double jumping back onto the stage. What you can do is simply wall jump into a back / uair air. It will catch your opponent waiting for you near the edge, also grabs will whiff on shield. If it hits simply Up - B back to the ledge / stage and play your game. You can try to suprise them and Up - B back on the stage, or reset the ledge mix up by going to the ledge. If they shield grab it is a free way for you to get on the stage.

Wall Jump Thunder Jolt - On certain stages ( rumble falls, SSE , yoshi's, FD, battlefield, etc..) if you time a wall jump ( not very specific timing) you can B - reverse a thunder jolt to hit the stage, and instead of traveling below the stage it will travel upwards. Meaning it will basically guarantee you shield pressure from the ledge. This forces the opponent into three options, Shield, Get hit, or Jump. A shield leads into whatever, be creative. Getting hit at certain percents might not be a problem, but at higher percents it will give you the knock back necessary to land on stage. A jump is good. On reaction you can either roll or get up if you know the spacing. Most importantly it messes up their timing and spacing. Now all of a sudden, their suffering landing lag. Now 4 frames may not sound a lot, but it can be the difference between a tipper and a normal hit.

Wall Jump Up - B - A fake out. Can Up - B to the stage or to the ledge. Similarly falling off the ledge into Up - B can give the same fake out for normal dj aerials.

Now, many stages in PM have platforms. the cool thing about Quick Attack is that pika is considered airborn during the ending frames of it. Meaning, if you land on a platform, you can edge cancel, dj out of potential pressure, or fall of the platform. I 100% guarantee unless your opponent knows exactly where you are going, they cannot cover all of those options.

So tl;dr Pika has good ledge stuff. Just go in training mode guys.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Down-B, Down-B, Down-B, Down-B. Its the Bread and Butter of Pikachu's combo ability.

(I'm kidding don't kill me)

 

[Player -0]

This is the wrong thread for both of those posts......
and you just revived a dead thread :l
@Shadow: That goes on a different thread, possibly a new thread? Not sure.
@Gamer: Lol, someone's salty about Pika's thunder, it's actually nerfed for ending lag in P:M....... Can you even combo with his thunder ._.;

 

[GamerGuy09]

This is the wrong thread for both of those posts......
and you just revived a dead thread :l
@Shadow: That goes on a different thread, possibly a new thread? Not sure.
@Gamer: Lol, someone's salty about Pika's thunder, it's actually nerfed for ending lag in P:M....... Can you even combo with his thunder ._.;

I'm just joking around that casuals spam Thunder over and over again.

 

[Anther]

Down-B, Down-B, Down-B, Down-B. Its the Bread and Butter of Pikachu's combo ability.

(I'm kidding don't kill me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez4KSHuBE6M&feature=player_detailpage&t=483 Thunder thunder thunder thunder! ;p

 

[GHNeko]

You guys should totally try to divert more attention here. <3

Post videos!

Redirect people to this board!

 

[Anther]

But.. there are no videos!..

 

[GHNeko]

Yeah there are! I saw some of you on youtube not to long ago!

 

[Nausicaa]

So, uhh, I wanted to talk about some Pika stuff. Primarily on getting back to the stage from the ledge. I will start off with a list of the basics then go off into the complex stuff.

Ledge Roll
Ledge Jump
Ledge Get Up
DJ Fair / Nair / Uair / Dair
DJ thunder jolt ( DONT LAND ON STAGE, JUST UP - B BACK TO THE LEDGE!!!)

Thats the basics that pretty much every character with a projectile has.
But, Pikachu has a wall jump. This opens an enormous amount of options for her.

Wall Jump Bair / Uair - So your opponent has been at high percents for a while now, or he has been shield grabbing your attempts at double jumping back onto the stage. What you can do is simply wall jump into a back / uair air. It will catch your opponent waiting for you near the edge, also grabs will whiff on shield. If it hits simply Up - B back to the ledge / stage and play your game. You can try to suprise them and Up - B back on the stage, or reset the ledge mix up by going to the ledge. If they shield grab it is a free way for you to get on the stage.

Wall Jump Thunder Jolt - On certain stages ( rumble falls, SSE , yoshi's, FD, battlefield, etc..) if you time a wall jump ( not very specific timing) you can B - reverse a thunder jolt to hit the stage, and instead of traveling below the stage it will travel upwards. Meaning it will basically guarantee you shield pressure from the ledge. This forces the opponent into three options, Shield, Get hit, or Jump. A shield leads into whatever, be creative. Getting hit at certain percents might not be a problem, but at higher percents it will give you the knock back necessary to land on stage. A jump is good. On reaction you can either roll or get up if you know the spacing. Most importantly it messes up their timing and spacing. Now all of a sudden, their suffering landing lag. Now 4 frames may not sound a lot, but it can be the difference between a tipper and a normal hit.

Wall Jump Up - B - A fake out. Can Up - B to the stage or to the ledge. Similarly falling off the ledge into Up - B can give the same fake out for normal dj aerials.

Now, many stages in PM have platforms. the cool thing about Quick Attack is that pika is considered airborn during the ending frames of it. Meaning, if you land on a platform, you can edge cancel, dj out of potential pressure, or fall of the platform. I 100% guarantee unless your opponent knows exactly where you are going, they cannot cover all of those options.

So tl;dr Pika has good ledge stuff. Just go in training mode guys.

WL?
???????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Where is WL on the Stage?

?????????????????
>>>V?DES??E?"F./d

In other news, Wall Jump > Air Dodge saves lives too. Pika being about to WL out of QAC is a massive load off his shoulders in terms of vulnerable positions to be in.

 

[Anther]

WL?
???????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Where is WL on the Stage?

?????????????????
>>>V?DES??E?"F./d

In other news, Wall Jump > Air Dodge saves lives too. Pika being about to WL out of QAC is a massive load off his shoulders in terms of vulnerable positions to be in.

Just being able to LAND out of quick attack makes things so much better. Those unnecessary 27 seconds of lag in melee... ;-;.

 

[Nausicaa]

Yeah, screw Shiek though. She can keep them all to herself!

 

[Anther]

Yeah there are! I saw some of you on youtube not to long ago!

Alright ;x!
The quality isn't the best since the stream kept disconnecting so be warned ;c! Also, long pikachu self examination wall of text incoming!
Maybe I'll post these as I keep playing and trying to become at least good at the games as I want to be. I want to but.. we'll see if I can stay dedicated to such a task.

Lately I've been proactively attempting to pick apart at holes in my game that Naucisaa <3 pointed out to me a few weeks ago, and some advice from my dear friend Shaeden who told me point blank that my approach "sucks".

I think it's always good to get criticism from others, but the most important thing is to be able to take others views on your faults and relate them to why they're faults.. and then lead to improvement :D!

Soooo.. Some things I've thought about lately that I have that are bad habits that I've developed over my weeks of playing is that a big issue is that I'd given up on using Pikachu's tilts! I watched my P:M vids from a month ago and from The Big House and realized essentially if I was ever to use a grounded move, it was more than likely a smash attack. Pika's tilts in comparison to his smash attacks are that they cover just about the same area of his smashes with less than half of the commitment.. so it's pretty bad that I was opting for smashes the majority of the time. This lead to me whiffing a lot and getting punished on attacks that were pretty low percent from the start and losing stocks because I'd attempt to punish an approach with a usmash or something. Thanks brawl ;-;.

After TBH3 I decided that I'd force myself to use tilts in many situations where I'd typically use smash attacks and see if it could make a big difference.. and no surprise it's a pretty big difference in how safe doing "light" punishments feel.

Another issue was that I wasn't taking advantage of pikachu's pressure game and instead turning it against myself by just hopping in whenever the other player would be passively throwing out attacks. This lead to about 90 shield grabs against me per match which is no good.

But yeh, lots of improvement in my opinion. I'm noticing myself stepping away from being more concerned about the strategy I'm going to apply as opposed to try to prevent myself from suiciding.

At a recent local tourney last week I managed to win two sets in grand finals that I'm sure I would've lost a few weeks ago so I R PROUD.

Pingas Man Pingas Project M Tourney
Winners finals match where I felt I did particularly well vs Mario
I actually lose winner finals 1-3 which was pretty disheartening. I realized I wasn't playing with all of my concentration every single match which was disappointing to me and something I'll be trying to get over.. because.. why not try my best every set?! I just need to practice more on keeping my focus in the match and not what's going on around me, especially in tournament sets. It's been the death of me so many times ;-;.

Loser Finals vs DDD
He picked Wario against me and beat me our first two times meeting in PM brackets. The 3rd time I began to be able to bait out his passive style a lot better and he switched to DDD and had some really close matches. As of lately I think my practicing has overshadowed his ability to really beat me in this particular game (Not brawl .. yet). So I'm glad to have improved enough to beat one of my rivals.

I feel that Pika's f-throw cg on DDD helps a lot in this matchup and the way fair pops heavy characters straight up sets up for extremely easy punishes.. and I use'em to the max. ... (Game 2 was definitely me losing focus)

Grand Finals set 1 vs Mario
The last match of this set was destroyed by the internet. Just a lot of utilizing tilts as per the battle plan of not spamming smashes all the time. I do end up getting myself punished a lot because I'll do them at very inappropriate times, but I think my judgement will get better with that over time.

But yeah, fun matchup. Mario's fireballs practically invalidate pika's jolt pressure which sucks, but he dies so easily when you catch him in anything that it makes up for it.

Does anyone know if mario's dthrow->dunk is guaranteed in general at higher percents?

Grand Finals set 2 vs Mario
...This whole set was apparently destroyed also.. so .. only the final match was recorded. I believe I won 3-1 in GF.

Yay, lots of text. Time to get back to work! ... except apparently it's 5:27.. so.. time to go home! <3

Also, some recorded friendlies.
vs Ivysaur
vs Snake

Any observations and such are always welcome =P.

 

[Nausicaa]

Alright ;x!
I think it's always good to get criticism from others, but the most important thing is to be able to take others views on your faults and relate them to why they're faults.. and then lead to improvement :D!

Soooo.. Some things I've thought about lately that I have that are bad habits that I've developed over my weeks of playing is that a big issue is that I'd given up on using Pikachu's tilts! Pika's tilts in comparison to his smash attacks are that they cover just about the same area of his smashes with less than half of the commitment.. so it's pretty bad that I was opting for smashes the majority of the time. After TBH3 I decided that I'd force myself to use tilts in many situations where I'd typically use smash attacks and see if it could make a big difference.. and no surprise it's a pretty big difference in how safe doing "light" punishments feel.

I just need to practice more on keeping my focus in the match and not what's going on around me, especially in tournament sets.

Loser Finals vs DDD
I feel that Pika's f-throw cg on DDD helps a lot in this matchup... and I use'em to the max. ... (Game 2 was definitely me losing focus)

Grand Finals set 1 vs Mario
But yeah, fun matchup. Mario's fireballs practically invalidate pika's jolt pressure which sucks, but he dies so easily when you catch him in anything that it makes up for it.

Does anyone know if mario's dthrow->dunk is guaranteed in general at higher percents?

Grand Finals set 2 vs Mario

<3

You've done excellent with that strategy too! (the whole apply-what-you-learn thing)
I very much enjoyed watching these sets. Much more solid play, you've built yourself a little fortress there at last, and quickly too. The inevitable came quick with your hard (and smart) work.
Good stuff Anther. Always good to see.

Funny, isn't it? A character that benefits from taking stocks through a process of many positional chips away at % and control, using resets and threatening utility, would be good with 'light' punishes. A character that doesn't have to really do anything to be a threat and can still punish anything if he's simply ready for it nearby, benefits from not being over-committing.
Well applied and it shows a LOT, way scarier than the last stuff I watched from you.

Awareness is good. Mind matters most. Keep it going.

Matches
vs Dedede
The F-Smashes in the loss-of-focus match was hilarious!
Good to hear you're bypassing style-crutches and making people switch mains for a character who relies on gimmick type stuff. Work wonders too. hehe

Mario
If it's anything like Melee, I'm pretty sure it's guaranteed, regardless of DI. Just don't get Grabbed, which shouldn't be too difficult.
Be watchful of that first thing (the not-committing thing) when fighting Mario, as well as other Lock-Down based characters.
He NEEDS to lock you down, or he can't really do much. Fireballs only go so far. Take note of when he stops, and when HE approaches YOU. It's in that 'scary mid-range' all the same. Any troubles you had were from trying to directly attack him either by running through a Fireball + his counter-approaching N-air/whatever, or when you tried getting close to him (remember, he wants to get close to you to lock you down, not the other way around) by doing something with platforms + Up-B stuff above the Firewall.
If you watch that GF Set 2 match alone, there are distinct positions and moments where you opted for Dashing up into essentially a position that screams 'I will challenge you!' and proceeded to moving away, and every time, it's beyond his Firewall, but not committing enough to get hit by something like a Mario B-air in the process. Every time this happens, you get free hits.
The more you establish this in the match, the more THEY will have to commit to things. How so? Stay in this area, as much as possible. You don't have to be so far that Fireballs are being spammed. If he throws one, run up and Shield it, then WD towards or away based on what he does (towards if he throws another, away if he approaches)
Fireballs aren't threatening, everyone from Mario to Falco throws these projectiles to keep you out of positions that are threatening to THEM. Just go there anyway, while avoiding the trap of trying to force your way through them.
They do that and wait for you... but if you stand exactly where they DON'T want you to be, and exactly where you WANT to be, then you get to wait for them... and it's free from there. :D

Great work with the other stuff. Results are fun.

Funny story...
Just a side-note/for your information... since you might enjoy knowing it.
This self analysis + outside insight process is essentially the same thing that Axe went through on his 'rise to Pikahood' in Melee. Though he actually did so through PMs and facebook with me instead of public forums, and it was more generalized on awareness of things rather than specifics (as it was for most people I was in touch with back then).
A lot of this same 'concept-of-play' discussion stuff is similar, but from a completely different angle since you're such a different player, and I'm not just a scrub-with-good-eyes like I was back then.

If anything, if you keep this up, you'll help a LOT of others because it IS publicly view-able, you're excelling visually in both play, and results, which are mainstream in the community to a decent degree, and in a developing meta-game with a game in development with a lot of players developing as players, it will be very beneficial to others as much as yourself. Good thing for the Pika community coming first, unintentionally, in a way.
I'll get some things up as finer-detail to demonstrate some things I've noticed that are a little too difficult to explain in text format, as I can actually do this unlike back in the day, so hopefully I can keep up with you as you continue at this rate of Project: M Personal Pika Meta-Game Evolution.

 

[dettadeus]

I think I'm gonna start using Pika again.
Makes the Falcon matchup more manageable since I know it pretty well in Melee.

 

[Anther]

<3
Funny, isn't it? A character that benefits from taking stocks through a process of many positional chips away at % and control, using resets and threatening utility, would be good with 'light' punishes. A character that doesn't have to really do anything to be a threat and can still punish anything if he's simply ready for it nearby, benefits from not being over-committing.

Amazing reply once again, I wasn't expecting you to out do yourself. Thanks for taking the time to even watch the sets D: and offer your inisght. I don't even know what to say ;-;.

I always get sad when I realize I didn't think of things like what you're saying vs mario and falco. ... but it's also exciting to have new things to look forward to.
It's very interesting to hear about sitting within their 'too close for comfort' zone and punishing from there. My goal has typically been to enter that zone and either get out right away or attack. I've never thought of the actual angle of attempting to maintain at that close proximity and then adjusting reactions from that particular position.. which is in general pretty difficult to say the least.

Can I become your understudy =p?

 

[GHNeko]

Nausicaa, Metagame master.

The coach that we all need, but do not deserve.

 

[Nausicaa]

It's very interesting to hear about sitting within their 'too close for comfort' zone and punishing from there. My goal has typically been to enter that zone and either get out right away or attack. I've never thought of the actual angle of attempting to maintain at that close proximity and then adjusting reactions from that particular position.. which is in general pretty difficult to say the least.

I was discussing the ZSS vs Marth match-up with 2 players a few days ago. They're both only learning Marth, but are very solid players in general, so it's coming easily.
They both were having a LOT of difficulty with her, and there was such a significant difference in their play, and most importantly the approach TO THE GAME, that it was interesting how they BOTH struggled for the same reason.

They were literally opposite, and after a long discussion/demonstrations/etc, they finally figured it out, and it came down to this...

Against ZSS as Marth, you don't want to let her keep her distance, as it gives her room to move because you're no threat to her, but you don't want to be too close because of how quickly she can maneuver to both gain distance AND close gaps, which is scary for Marth since he's such a precision-based character in everything from Neutral (hence speed that matches him can make things difficult) to Combos (hence high mobility immediately out of hit-stun can eliminate any early kills... and he sucks at late-high% kills).

Essentially, he wants to keep ZSS at that tipper F-air range, at all times. When DDing, or backing off, even off-stage if at all possible.

Player 1) Understood this, knew this is where he wanted to keep her, and tried to stay there by paying attention to this area.

Player 2) Didn't understand this, but knew he was most effective when being more aggressive than in most other match-ups.

The reason P1 struggled, is the fact that ZSS can move just as quickly, if not more so, and even at that 'special' distance, she can't actually be CONTAINED, it's simply where SHE can no longer contain/threaten YOU, at least not any more than you can threaten her. Given Marth needs to lock her down, sustaining this space doesn't allow her advantage in diversity to take a toll on the match.

For P2, he noticed the higher aggression is what worked, but didn't really know why (figure ZSS had trouble defensively) so he kept trying to be more aggressive to exploit this. When in fact, it was because of his chasing-her that lead him to almost always sustain that 'special' distance, and when not realizing this, he would over-extend beyond it, and let her get too close. (sounds like a relationship lol)

Those 2 approaches make sense? ^
They both understood my explanations individually, and worked at it, but only when I could get them both together, and go into detail with them about it, and play them repeatedly while pointing it out, could they both actually APPLY it. (P2 actually got it right away, and needed the explanation more than anything.)
P1 struggled in particular because he ingrained a concept of positioning/strategy into his game, and relied on that, KNOWING it was effective. Despite accurately understanding it, and trying to apply he, his approach to applying it was completely off-base.

With all of this, take note of HOW you're APPROACHING the Strategies you have.

Mario + Falco, both Lock-Down characters, sure.
1) Approach with the same Strategy (don't get locked down, go to the areas they're trying to keep you out of, but never commit to anything, simply instill the fact that you're in a threatening position, even for a moment, and let them REACT to you, either by dying, or by trying to kill you because they're 'scared' since you're not 'covered' there)
2) DON'T approach the Strategy the same way. Even if the EXACT SAME ZONE is where you want to be in both match-ups, it can be COMPLETELY different. Against Mario, you can go there and literally SEE if he's reacting to it, whether he's approaching or jumping away. Against Falco, you might spend a LOT of your time running away, or chasing him, in which case the key to that is being watchful of what REALLY triggers him to turn back and try to attack you, or back off because he's chased too far/you've come too close.

Identifying WHAT to do in a match-up is one thing (stay in a scary area), identifying HOW to stay there is another (when to chase, run, wait and bait), identifying how to BENEFIT from this is where the depth comes in (what's the tipping-point that makes this ZONE produce results).
Be watchful, take mental notes. That's all.

Again, nothing new, just worth mentioning.
You got this!

Nausicaa, Metagame master.

The coach that we all need, but do not deserve.

Stop that! haha
Again, nothing I ever say is new/what people don't already know. I can just put things in an explainable/presentable way for people to actually 'use' what they 'already' know. Tiz all!
You're all the masters, because you DO the stuff.

 

[Anther]

Stop that! haha
Again, nothing I ever say is new/what people don't already know. I can just put things in an explainable/presentable way for people to actually 'use' what they 'already' know. Tiz all!
You're all the masters, because you DO the stuff.

<3s.

It's all definitely is something new for me to think about at least. It's making my journey as a smasher a lot more mental in a strategic sense that I've never looked at before. I've always sort of based my play off of only picking up on the other player's habits, but not a lot of focus on actual sub goals of how to play out a matchup. I know at the end my playstyle will probably still look the same but there's something about having more definite goals that doesn't hurt.

So I played in a melee tourney and I feel all the help I've gotten here has been tremendous for my melee/PM/brawl games :D.
Playing all three games at once has definitely helped with brawl.. as I find that I rarely mess up in brawl at all. I'm also using pika's tilts a bit more productively instead of defaulting to fsmash/dsmash/usmash... which is a good thing in a game with such harsh diminishing returns on repeated use of kill moves x;.

Non-strategically speaking, have any of you ever had trouble focusing or getting into the zone while playing D:?! At the first PM tournament I attended I realized that one of my downfalls even way back.. was that anytime I had any sort of audience or was playing on a stream or anything I could never focus 100% on the match. It definitely resulted in me not really playing the games as well as I know I could because I'm either focusing on conversations going on around me or what people think of my move choices.
I've been practicing putting my attention solely onto the match in tournament settings and realized that I can get into "EL ZONO" .. eventually. I think it's just a learned behavior that I wish I could give more insight into, but I find it pretty cool to be able to go 110% and look back at matches and realize that I was playing better than I thought I was capable of ;;. It's just interesting to me how it seems to be taking less and less time for my mind to focus only on the match.. (And that it's taken me years to learn that this is a state of mind worth thinking about >_>).

THIS SMASH JOURNEY R FUN.

But n e ways, I wish there was more PM at Youmacon this weekend. I'm still terrible against fox and captain falcon.. but I feel that a lot of that ends up being that I'm really bad at technically following through with the awesome punishment opportunities pika has.

 

[Nausicaa]

I know at the end my playstyle will probably still look the same

which is a good thing in a game with such harsh diminishing returns on repeated use of kill moves x;.

Non-strategically speaking, have any of you ever had trouble focusing or getting into the zone while playing D:?!

I think it's just a learned behavior that I wish I could give more insight into, but I find it pretty cool to be able to go 110% and look back at matches and realize that I was playing better than I thought I was capable of ;;. It's just interesting to me how it seems to be taking less and less time for my mind to focus only on the match.. (And that it's taken me years to learn that this is a state of mind worth thinking about >_>).

THIS SMASH JOURNEY R FUN.

I'm really bad at technically following through with the awesome punishment opportunities pika has.

Some of the most aware and conscious players I know have describe Smash as the 'most revealing' game. You'll always look like you, no matter how much you mimic others or trend with the meta-games.

Forgot about the hard-diminishes... that's a nice surprise side-effect of your PM/Melee practice. haha

This is something that troubles a lot of people, but it's for sure as you said, a 'habit' by nature (behavioral condition), as with any mental thing, and it will go with time... but it will go a lot faster if you consciously work on it. Simply enough, if you're giving attention to anything other than the match (especially 'not being focused/whatever you're focusing on that you don't think you 'should' be'), then at least you're AWARE of it. Here's a funny tid-bit from a random article my brother showed me the other day.

Spoiler

Most of you, we have found in our interactions with you,
will define the concept of habit:
"Something I can't seem to stop doing... not matter how hard I try,
I just keep doing it... over and over and over again,
what's wrong with me? -- I can't stop!"
All right, fair enough,
but you see the only reason it seems to be so difficult,
is because of what you define a habit to be.
If I may be so bold, I would like to take an opportunity now
to share with you, our civilizations definition of a habit:
(May I? Why thank you so very much!)
Habit: a habit is something you do that you don't know you're doing,
once you know you're doing it... you don't have it anymore... it's gone,
if you appear to keep doing it,
it's because for some reason you choose to.
"Ooh... responsibility... oh, no... responsibility,
you mean I have to take responsibility for the fact that I keep doing this,
I can't just foist it off on the idea that it's a habit as an excuse?"
Nope... not once you know you have the habit!
It's like the idea of being outside of the forest...
in order to know that you were in a forest.
You have to be able to be outside it
in order to look back and say, "Oh, yes, that was a forest...
up until the moment I got out of it, it was just a bunch of trees,
but now that I'm standing outside of it, I can see it for what it was,
it was a great and vast forest,
and now that I can see it... that means I'm no longer in it."

So when you know you have a habit,
that does not mean that it's the beginning of the process of changing it,
it means it's the end... you don't have it anymore.
Now, if you keep appearing to do it,
it's because you have a definition of the habit that says,
"This is difficult... now that I'm aware of it
I have to go through some lengthy process full of struggle and effort,
in order to divest myself of this horribly difficult behavior pattern,
I know this is just going to take years and years and years!"
Well, ask yourself at that moment,
"What would you be getting out of it to allow it to take so long?
How is it serving you to procrastinate
at knowing that you don't have it anymore?"
That's where responsibility comes in... and again,
in line with the idea of redefining things,
take the negative definition off of responsibility,
it doesn't mean blame or it certainly doesn't have to be,
it doesn't mean burden,
it doesn't mean struggle if you don't want it to.
Responsibility: the ability to respond!
Period! Who doesn't want that?!
Who doesn't want the ability
to respond to something... to be creative... to act?"
That's what responsibility is,
your ability to respond instead of react to these ideas.
So, take responsibility... demand responsibility,
insist on responsibility... believe me... it's the most fun!
Because when you take responsibility you are at choice,
you are self-empowered... you know you have the ability to choose,
you are free to choose... that's freedom... that's self empowerment,
that is also effortless alignment with the unconditional love of the Infinite
and by being yourself that way, that, as we already have illustrated,
is how you perform the best service to everyone else,
because by being yourself you then can share the gifts you have,
spontaneously... creatively,
and thus everyone benefits by you just being you.
So, look to those definitions... find out what they are,
and recognize that by transforming those definitions
when you hit upon the definition you had,
and recognize it doesn't work for you
and replace it with the definition that does,
you will feel the change within you... instantly!
you will feel the revelation... you will feel the expansion,
you will know you are a different you
and I mean that literally, not figuratively... literally!

Just focus on the match and the match and the match and the match... there, habit gone, don't even use the word. lol

Some players actually thrive off their ability to be 'in-the-zone' when it comes to Smash. Armada is a good example, as one of the first things we ever discussed was mental practices, and how he semi-meditates (or just re-focuses) in major sets, and it helps a lot. We've probably discussed the difference and development in awareness between new-comers and the top-5 in the world more than anything, and how the next-best will become the 'next-bext' through a change in the way the player 'sees' the game, NOT in the way they 'play' it. Even in the Smash Brothers Documentary, it talks about how those players, from Ken to Azen to whatever, learned the game a 'different' way. Ken saw that if he grabbed Fox, he could hit him. The fact that grabbing Fox is what he found... doesn't matter. The fact that he figured something out at all... whether consciously looking for something or not... matters. PCC described Azen as learning the game a stupid way that nobody else could figure out, Mango naturally picked it up, what could the gift have been? Maybe he had faster fingers and better characters, maybe he could do things nobody else could because he practiced tonnes, but maybe he also saw things differently so he could pick-up and apply things that others simply didn't yet/couldn't due to going other directions with their practices. The general 'People' are 'too good' at the game these days to actually break-through simply by being better at the 'game' itself anyway.

My bro (one of the least-playing Smashers, yet probably the fastest learner regarding the game I've ever met), likes to simply pretend that whatever he's doing... he's been doing it his whole life. There are many mental-tricks like that. Not too long ago I made a rant-post in the Social thread and there were some good follow-up posts from others about the mental-tricks they play on/with/by themselves to get focused/better/whatever... really, you could probably google mental-practices when you're feeling intrigued, but simple meditations are pretty helpful.

Otherwise, watch your breath. If you notice you're not fully focused, take it as a queue to take note of your breath. Just your natural breath, not regulated or anything, but you're ALWAYS breathing, so to be fully present, it kind of implies that being aware of whether you're breath is going in or out, is simply something you'll be aware of, moment-to-moment. Keep doing this, and your mental-will to return to a state of focus will heighten, which will in turn help your ability to focus on the match (which is what you want to focus on), handy-mandy piece of cake!

>Read the blog I posted called Development of the Will for a good run-down of this. The other one on Technique is good too, especially regarding your 'Technical troubles of following up vs Fox + Falcon'.

Developing your mental capacity TO FOCUS >>translates into>> Focusing on the match at hand better.

State-of-mind is something most people never pay attention to with any sort of priority throughout their entire lives. Once you've started, keep taking steps in that direction. Don't let awareness and mental-development be a phase.
You know what's awesome about this though?
When 'ABILITY TO FOCUS' is the thing you're 'DEVELOPING THE ABILITY TO FOCUS ON' then everything else just kind of falls into place in terms of 'what you want to focus on' for the rest of your life.
Handy mental-development to focus on.
Good stuff, Anther.

THE SMASH JOURNEY R FUN INDEED

Good stuff.

 

[Anther]

Whoops, I thought I replied to this or at least liked the post weeks ago!

So yeah, the true secret to pikachu is focus >;o!

 

[Sarix]

Non-strategically speaking, have any of you ever had trouble focusing or getting into the zone while playing D:?! At the first PM tournament I attended I realized that one of my downfalls even way back.. was that anytime I had any sort of audience or was playing on a stream or anything I could never focus 100% on the match. It definitely resulted in me not really playing the games as well as I know I could because I'm either focusing on conversations going on around me or what people think of my move choices.
I've been practicing putting my attention solely onto the match in tournament settings and realized that I can get into "EL ZONO" .. eventually. I think it's just a learned behavior that I wish I could give more insight into, but I find it pretty cool to be able to go 110% and look back at matches and realize that I was playing better than I thought I was capable of ;;. It's just interesting to me how it seems to be taking less and less time for my mind to focus only on the match.. (And that it's taken me years to learn that this is a state of mind worth thinking about >_>).

For me I'm still trying to overcome getting depressed when I make a lot of mistakes during a match. But I totally get how you felt with anyone watching and what they could be thinking about your move choices in certain situations. I have no trouble focusing outside of my perfectionist habits that have developed from my college major.

 

[Anther]

For me I'm still trying to overcome getting depressed when I make a lot of mistakes during a match. But I totally get how you felt with anyone watching and what they could be thinking about your move choices in certain situations. I have no trouble focusing outside of my perfectionist habits that have developed from my college major.

I feel like that's the worst! I don't get depressed as you say you do, but there's definitely a lingering feelings and a chain of thoughts that can look like:

Oh god, I missed an easy punish, will I miss more easy punishes?!
Was it because my fingers are getting sweaty?
I need to stop thinking about this stuff!
What if I just suicide for no reason ... *suicide*

In the end, I think playing lots of friendlies and making sure you don't lose focus on the silly things like emotions ad runaway thoughts by refocusing on the game and perhaps even blindly practicing the thing that you messed up on just to reinforce that you can indeed do it right... at least 93% of the time ;P.

 

[Sarix]

In the end, I think playing lots of friendlies and making sure you don't lose focus on the silly things like emotions ad runaway thoughts by refocusing on the game and perhaps even blindly practicing the thing that you messed up on just to reinforce that you can indeed do it right... at least 93% of the time ;P.

Yeah depression and being self deprecating/critical are two fatal flaws I'm still trying to overcome in tourney. I do agree that lots of friendlies does help a lot and I wish where I lived didn't make it so inconvenient to play them. I focus on just practicing what I can and try to learn new things with the characters I play to give me that one reliable source of confidence.

 

[Nausicaa]

In the end, I think playing lots of friendlies and making sure you don't lose focus on the silly things like emotions ad runaway thoughts by refocusing on the game and perhaps even blindly practicing the thing that you messed up on just to reinforce that you can indeed do it right... at least 93% of the time ;P.

I'll re-phrase that.

In the end, I think if you refocus on focus itself whenever you're playing friendlies or practicing things, then you're reinforcing that you won't lose focus or blinding do things like get lost in silly emotions and runaway thoughts, so it doesn't really matter how many friendlies you play or practice in compared to just reinforcing doing it right... at 93% of the time. ;P