Samus v Falco Matchup

[rhan]

I want to know am I the only person that believes that Samus > Falco?

I've made multiple posts on the Matchup thread and in the Tier List thread about how I believe Samus has an advantage over Falco. And I have given valid reasons why but for some reason my notions get shut down by diq riders. I've asked the Falco players in my area that I've played (And who are better than I am) how they feel about the matchup and they agree that Falco doesn't do well against Samus. But when I hit the boards with such information I get shut down. I just don't understand.

Maybe if I get other Samus' opinions maybe this can calm my mind.

 

[GreatFox64]

you should go ahead and lay out your entire argument in this thread

 

[JPOBS]

subscribed. s***s about to get real.

 

[Geist]

If it's in Samus's favor, it's probably close to something like 55:45 at the most.
I'm a bit of a fence sitter on this one. I inherently take HugS' opinions with more weight than random Falco or Samus mains, and I haven't heard a legit Falco players' opinions on it.

In my own experience it feels around even, depending on the Falco's playstyle.

 

[edgeluca]

The only falcos I lose to are the ones alot better than me
I agree Samus>Falco. Probably 60:40.

 

[edgeluca]

The only falcos I lose to are the ones alot better than me
I agree Samus>Falco. Probably 60:40.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

I'd say it's even at worst.

All Falco has to do is to bait you into doing 1 misspaced or mistimed move and he'll come in a **** you.

The sheer amount of punishment Falco dishes out with one opening keeps this matchup even imo.

 

[AntoPark]

Do you guys think that Up B oos is a necessity in the match up?

 

[Geist]

Do you guys think that Up B oos is a necessity in the match up?

Yes absolutely.
What else are you going to do when you get shield pressured? Roll away? xD

 

[edgeluca]

Yes absolutely.
What else are you going to do when you get shield pressured? Roll away? xD

Out of instinct I usually Up B, but sometimes I nair or wavedash out well-timed.

 

[Geist]

WD away works pretty well, but Nair OoS seems reckless unless it's against laser pressure and you space it well.

 

[edgeluca]

WD away works pretty well, but Nair OoS seems reckless unless it's against laser pressure and you space it well.

Yeah I time and space it really well or else I don't do it. wavesmash OoS ftw?

 

[ph00tbag]

WD away -> dsmash is one of the best ways to create an opening when you expect an approach. And usually, once the first dsmash goes, you get enough damage to make the whole match an uphill battle.

But that's only one option you have.

Don't forget, Samus also has one of the best spot-dodges in the game. It's certainly not 100% reliable, but it definitely makes grabbing a risky mix-up for Falco.

All said, I'd agree that there's certainly no way this match-up is at all in Falco's favor. I'm sitting on even, personally, but I could see Samus having the advantage. I'd just need to see good reasoning for it.

 

[ArstNeio]

Some Falcos are all right and not too bad to fight against but I think that's more because they approach the Samus matchup wrong. If Falco plays this one right I think they have the clear upper hand.

I get ***** by Falco lazer camp but maybe that's cause I can't PS like a pro

 

[ph00tbag]

Some Falcos are all right and not too bad to fight against but I think that's more because they approach the Samus matchup wrong. If Falco plays this one right I think they have the clear upper hand.

I get ***** by Falco lazer camp but maybe that's cause I can't PS like a pro

You just need to know how to get through the lasers. Once you hit Falco, you should be golden.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Man I'm horrible in this match-up...my personal worst by far. I play against mediocre Falcos now and I struggle really bad and then I go even with Linguini...if somebody could write a MU thread that would help :D

I mean, once I'm on the offensive I do really well, but Falco's Laser game shuts me down and I feel like I can't do anything. Is there anything to do other than Power Shield them?

 

[Geist]

I mean, once I'm on the offensive I do really well, but Falco's Laser game shuts me down and I feel like I can't do anything. Is there anything to do other than Power Shield them?

Yeah the MU thread needs to be updated hardcore-like lmao

I usually use platforms and wavelands to escape heavy lasering. If platforms aren't available, I just WD OoS. Shield camping works if they're approaching.
Throwing jabs out to an approaching Falco is hilarious. They just stand still for like a complete second.

 

[DeezNutZ]

Yeah the MU thread needs to be updated hardcore-like lmao

I usually use platforms and wavelands to escape heavy lasering. If platforms aren't available, I just WD OoS. Shield camping works if they're approaching.
Throwing jabs out to an approaching Falco is hilarious. They just stand still for like a complete second.

Thats whats I am asking for in my other post I think the majority of the matchup in the guides are out dated. But on this matter I find carefully placed bombs to be helpful both against his recovery and to di out of his combos. Such as after you di throw a bombtheres a chance they will jump into it. Jabs are very useful. From like 50% to 85% uair to full charge shot has decent success.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

^^^

that's what i think, but then no one actually takes the effort to make updated match ups
some of us are still too noob

also i remember someone saying that those match up guides pretty much hold true still
falco is such a weird match up in the sense that i haven't seen a LEGIT samus/falco match up guide
people just throw things out there every once in a while, and some people just know how to play against them...but they don't seem to contribute much

that's just how it seems to me

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Ugh...I hate bombs off the level. Running of and nairing is so much more fun and effective!!

 

[edgeluca]

Ugh...I hate bombs off the level. Running of and nairing is so much more fun and effective!!

Are you back to melee?

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Ugh...I hate bombs off the level. Running of and nairing is so much more fun and effective!!

It depends on the angle of interception and how far off they are from the stage. If they're close to the edge dropping a bomb can take away their jump before they can grab the ledge and making them easier to edgeguard. Otherwise you risk trading with a rising Dair and losing a stock.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Thats true.

I never really quit melee, there just aren't many melee tournaments down here that don't clash with brawl tournaments (Since brawl is MUCH easier money)

 

[ph00tbag]

I think the Falco match-up is more about experience than it is about knowledge. Those things that you see people throw out are things that can be worked into the game to throw off Falco's rhythm, but if you don't have experience with that rhythm, then you don't know where to put the tidbits, and since it's such a feel-based thing, it's hard to just say "this is when you should WD back to dsmash," or "this is when you should Screw Attack out of shield." If you know Falco's rhythm, then you know when to do these things.

 

[duals]

I think the Falco match-up is more about experience than it is about knowledge. Those things that you see people throw out are things that can be worked into the game to throw off Falco's rhythm, but if you don't have experience with that rhythm, then you don't know where to put the tidbits, and since it's such a feel-based thing, it's hard to just say "this is when you should WD back to dsmash," or "this is when you should Screw Attack out of shield." If you know Falco's rhythm, then you know when to do these things.

Really agree with this...

I went to fanime (cali anime con in san jose) and I really got wrecked by a falco.. multiple times...

Reason I think is that he really was expecting a Oos Up B at all times when approaching, so when I'd up B.. hes all ready all over me...

was hurting my pride...

 

[edgeluca]

Really agree with this...

I went to fanime (cali anime con in san jose) and I really got wrecked by a falco.. multiple times...

Reason I think is that he really was expecting a Oos Up B at all times when approaching, so when I'd up B.. hes all ready all over me...

was hurting my pride...

Don't worry man, I used to suck vs falco
Now it's pretty much my best matchup.

 

[Pi]

tools to utilize:
Wavedash OoS
Power shield
UB OoS
Platforms

it definitely comes down to who knows the matchup better.

I wreck falcos who don't know wtf to do

 

[edgeluca]

tools to utilize:
Wavedash OoS
Power shield
UB OoS
Platforms

it definitely comes down to who knows the matchup better.

I wreck falcos who don't know wtf to do

Don't forget gimping, that's always a fun way to make falcos ragequit :D

 

[duals]

Don't forget gimping, that's always a fun way to make falcos ragequit :D

indeed...

Is simple once they're off the stage...

=/

 

[edgeluca]

indeed...

Is simple once they're off the stage...

=/

I remember one time my bair got a phantom hit
That lost me the match

 

[Pi]

gimps are fun
too fun
my buddies play falco
it sucks for falco if you're use to the way they recover

 

[Geist]

*wd off stage to nair*

Edgeguarding Falco is really where Samus shines in this matchup in my experience. Pun not intended but whatever.
If you can predict Falco, he should make it back. Missile combos to charge beam are so good.

 

[edgeluca]

*wd off stage to nair*

Edgeguarding Falco is really where Samus shines in this matchup in my experience. Pun not intended but whatever.
If you can predict Falco, he should make it back. Missile combos to charge beam are so good.

Yep. But don't forget that UpB OoS is a great way to screw up the Falco's pressure game

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I phantom hit a D-smash after a ledgehop fair...

I died for it...

 

[GreatFox64]

a great strategy is to try to get a fully charged shot as much as possible, as fast as possible. the moment a falco tries to lazer camp, shoot it right through his lazers and proceed from there.

 

[duals]

a great strategy is to try to get a fully charged shot as much as possible, as fast as possible. the moment a falco tries to lazer camp, shoot it right through his lazers and proceed from there.

haha never thought of that...

 

[edgeluca]

a great strategy is to try to get a fully charged shot as much as possible, as fast as possible. the moment a falco tries to lazer camp, shoot it right through his lazers and proceed from there.

Trust me, if the falco is half decent, he'll react fast enough.

 

[resTy]

The Falco match-up is ********.
Even if you powershield lasers he still has total control.
If he camps and stays dedicated to it, consider it game.

 

[rhan]

So I played Cyrain's Falco yesterday. And I brought him down to his last stock. Obviously he's a better player than I am. But if the matchup wasn't in Samus' favor I wouldn't have been able to do that.

Just a little tid bit of how my smashing in Richmond went with Tope and others.

 

[edgeluca]

The Falco match-up is ********.
Even if you powershield lasers he still has total control.
If he camps and stays dedicated to it, consider it game.

What falco did you get ***** by