Samus short hop ff missile

[Muse_Showbiz]

hey there, actually im not new here, but i forgot my old account details :D
first of all, excuse me for my crappy english (i'm from germany)

now to my question:
does it make sence to practise short hop fast fall missile with samus? cause there are only 2 frames between performing the fast fall and the smash missile.
are there pros using this technique regularly in matches? or is it just too difficult?

 

[Litt]

The Samus, Knut from NY is notorious for his SHFFMCs. Just learning to fast fall missile cancel is very helpful, but learning to consistently SHFFMC is very difficult and time consuming. I say develop the more important parts of samus's metagame first before learning such an advanced and difficult technique.

 

[JerkPhil]

I hope you're going to Beast4!

 

[Litt]

me or Muse? and when and where is Beast4?

 

[JerkPhil]

Beast4 is in Sweden. Muse is from Germany, and some Germans are going

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

nah, i'm not going to beast4 sorry mate
i play fox, falco ans samus as a floaty.
but someday i will.

 

[SUNG475]

This is insanely hard.

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

indeed! to my mind, doing that with full jumps is a very good option, because of the fact that you are able to move longer distances; spacing is easier this way (for example jump back and shot a missile towards your foe). doing the SHFFMC makes you more vulnerable, though it looks pretty hot.

 

[Litt]

No, doing a full hop is not a very good option at all, it leaves you much more vulnerable because how slow samus is in the air. If you can do SHFFMCs consistently, it is useful for approaching another ground character, or making them approach on a stage without platforms.... For a good 90% of the time, you want to stay grounded as samus otherwise you are going to get junked by top tiers

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

No, doing a full hop is not a very good option at all, it leaves you much more vulnerable because how slow samus is in the air. If you can do SHFFMCs consistently, it is useful for approaching another ground character, or making them approach on a stage without platforms.... For a good 90% of the time, you want to stay grounded as samus otherwise you are going to get junked by top tiers

well, would you then prefer to perform a fast double jump ff mc? cause doing SHFFMC is barely feasible :/
sorry for that late reply :D i was thinking about your post for a long time

 

[Litt]

I would not recommend that either, you want to keep samus grounded, if anything, short hop and missile either smash or homing, you dont want to put yourself too high off the ground.

 

[JerkPhil]

That's risky, Muse. We're vulnerable in the air as it is. Without our second jump, it's even worse.
If you want those missiles, I'm afraid you need to learn to do them properly :/

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

yea, right. just wanted to know what you guys think about that

 

[Knut]

just like each type of MC, SHFFMC have their time and place. they are difficult to learn, but worth it imo.

 

[Litt]

just like each type of MC, SHFFMC have their time and place. they are difficult to learn, but worth it imo.

Coming from the one samus that has actually mastered the tech

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

good to see the samus babies aiming for victory.

 

[Litt]

good to see the samus babies aiming for victory.

WESSSSSS!!!!! Hahahha dude were you at apex??? Dont think I saw you there

 

[Phonz]

What are the best ways to practice the SHFFM?

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

well, you can even practise this technique against cpu. do it while moving in both directions..
to my mind, the difficult part of SHFFMC is not being fast, but learning the right timing to fast fall as early as possible.
because, even if you are fast enough to shoot a missile 2 frames after fast fall, it becomes worthless if you fast fall to late.

 

[Litt]

That seems to be the biggest problem with myself, as well, the training of fingers to get that fast, did not take long, but the time is the real kick in the pants ^_^

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

it can be reaaaally frustrating ._.

 

[Litt]

What helped me get the timing down better than working on full jump fast falls into double jump then into short hop fast fall missiles, was going to dream land, running off the lower platform, and fast falling into a missile, then onto battlefield, and finally pokemon. After that, shffmcs were a lot easier

 

[JerkPhil]

I trained it with a metronome to get the timing of the fast fall.

 

[Litt]

Problem with metronome is it does not translate to other fast fall skills, like running off platforms, fast fall into missile cancels, and same for wavedash off platforms into ffmcs

 

[JerkPhil]

The SHFFMC technique consists of two parts:
The first part is SH to FF. The metronome can help you find the timing for the earliest fast fall after the short hop.
The second is FF to MC. The difficulty in this part is doing the missile as fast as possible after fast falling.

 

[Litt]

Its really not though, you are making it much harder than it has to be Jerk, by separating it into two distinct parts. The technique is supposed to flow together to make one fluid motion, especially the fast fall into the missile. Because you are focusing too much on the SH into the fast fall, then the ff into the Mc, you have to do the mc that much faster, instead of doing the fast fall and missile in the same motion with the control stick.

 

[JerkPhil]

As the fast FF is so tight, I still don't agree I'm making it harder. I usually do like 10 perfect SHFFs before I add the MC after the FF. Like... you need to learn to short hop before you shffl...

 

[Litt]

What you just said agreed with me... you havent mastered the tech yet, and your process is good for learning how to short hop, or how to fast fall a short hop, but it isnt good for learning the implementation of the shffmc, if you practiced running off platforms into fast fall missile cancels after your metronome training, it will make the tech much easier and more fluid.

 

[JerkPhil]

I wasn't talking about learning to implement the tech. I'm just telling you how I learn the tech. I don't know where you disagree with me though. You said you didn't agree with me.

 

[Litt]

You learned parts of the tech, but you didn't learn the tech... you need to be able to combine that training in order to actually be successful in using it, and just learning them separately wont help

 

[JerkPhil]

I never said so. I said I'm using a metronome to practice it, as I find the FF timing the hardest. The FF to MC is easier and doesn't require as much practice for me.

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

it's easier for me to shot to the left than to the right doing SHFFMC.
do you have the same problem? almost everything is easier for me doing it to the left..

 

[JerkPhil]

I think I know it better to the right, actually...
Something I've noticed is that people prefer spinning the control stick clockwise, while others prefer counter-clockwise. This may be the reason some people has an easier time moonwalking in one direction than the other. This may also apply to FFMC.

 

[Litt]

Yeah, for a while I had a much easier time using the tech to the left, but as I trained my fingers to get faster, I actually compensated too much and got better at consistently doing it to the right, and it screwed up my timing to go to the left.

 

[ManoxMano]

I have a harder time going left then right. I feel like doing it left is a completely diff technique then right sometimes

 

[Litt]

Well something I noticed yesterday when I was playing, I actually move the control stick slightly up during the short hop, so its registers the down input the frame the control stick just passes neutral position, instead of it staying at neutral when I start the fast fall, and it makes it easier to do the missile is the control stick is closer to the neutral position. The problem with though, is that if you press b too fast, you get an up b instead of a fast fall missile

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

ah ok, i get it... well i hate it when i get a down b because i pressed b too fast. frustrating >.<

 

[Litt]

Thats not because you pressed it too fast, your timing is off for your fast fall and you are pressing down before you hit the apex of your jump.

 

[Muse_Showbiz]

hmmm could be true..

 

[ManoxMano]

Found a neat thing about this tech. Run and do a shffmc near the edge and you'll instantly grab the ledge. Think of a platform edge canceled aerial but with this tech. I wonder if I can do the same with a FH...