Samus: Official Character Discussion

[Ulevo]

Discussion for Samus. Anyone can suggest anything for any of these topics, and it'll be noted. Popular suggestions/values will be marked as such. Final values will be determined by popularity, so voice your opinion!

Suggested Offensive Modifications:

Suggested Defensive Modifications:


Default Physics:
SH:
FH:
FF:
DGrav:
Grav:

Physics Changes:

Specific Move Fixes:


Anything else:

 

[The Cape]

This is what I would like to see for Samus:

F smash HBK: Ground horizontal kill option
Charge Blast: Less damage, more KB: Another air kill option
Fix Bomb Drop so the animation doesnt take forever: Move is basically useless, can be great for spacing (which is where Samus excels)
Smash missiles HBK: Spacing and damage

 

[Ulevo]

This is what I would like to see for Samus:

F smash HBK: Ground horizontal kill option
Charge Blast: Less damage, more KB: Another air kill option
Fix Bomb Drop so the animation doesnt take forever: Move is basically useless, can be great for spacing (which is where Samus excels)
Smash missiles HBK: Spacing and damage

I agree with all these changes. Currently her range game, excluding her Zair, lacks the potency to be effective. Making the Charge Shot kill at low percents again would help remedy her need for a kill move other than Dtilt, and it would add to her range game.

FSmash I would suggest also decreasing start up time. Currently it is very slow to come out, and is interruptible by many moves. Increasing its knock back would only serve so useful if you couldn't hit targets with it.

I would recommend revamping her Utilt as well to the similar dynamics of its Melee design. Samus is lacking in solid close quarters attacks, and this would be a healthy addition. It would also improve her reservoir of combo finishers and edge guarding.

Also, give us back super wavedash please.

Just kidding on the last one.

 

[CT Chia]

I would keep the damage on the charge shot. No need to nerf that. You should be rewarded for getting it off on someone, especially with a poor character. But yes, increase the knockback a bit.

DEFINITELY increase the knockback of the nair. Samus' really doesnt do well in the air when being rushed down by an opponent. a lot of her strengths come from a distance - charge shot, zair, missiles, etc. adding increase kb for nair makes it so she can knock enemies away to start her long range options, gives ok reward for a move that lasts sort of a long time, adds edgeguarding options that she lacks, and more. theres too many awesome uses a strong nair has, and samus is definitely a character we have to focus on buffing.

As for what The Cape was mentioning with the bomb drop I think this would work:
-Speed up the start animation (start till bomb) just a lil bit, not too much
-Decrease the cooldown lag a lot so she can do stuff after she drops a bomb
-Would it be possible to make bombs explode on contact like they did in Melee instead of being timed like in Brawl? This made them practically useless for on stage use.

Fsmash - incr kb a lil, not too much. samus has no good reliable ground horizontal kill options. while every character doesnt need an option for everything, fsmash is what it is. not the fastest attack that should be strong (like most smash attacks). samus has a hard time killing and this is a great thing to help change that.

Anything with making missiles better I immediately approve of

Will add more later, i havnt played Samus too much recently.

 

[The Cape]

Samus uair and bair have great KB and come out quick. They are good for keeping people off you and restarting the range game. The nair is no longer a kill/GTFO move. From what I have seen it excels in combos because it helps to reset hitstun and keep the opponent close to you so that you can follow up with another move. The nair is different and has different uses and the way Samus plays in Brawl+ I honestly dont think that she needs a KB buff on it as the move works very well at doing what it does.

tl:dr
Dont change nair. Good combo move, keeps close and low for followups.

 

[The Cape]

Samus jab jab does not combo at higher percents, first jab knocks down. So we should get fixed knockback on it to fix it.

Also the nair has a sweetspot at the beginning of the move, I can see buffing that for KB, but leave the weak hit for combos.

 

[goodoldganon]

1. Increase in N-air knockback (we are talking about increasing all sex kick knockback)
2. Increase knockback on Super Missiles and Charge Shot
3. Speed the missiles up. Both in time to launch and the speed they travel
4. Make the bombs more useful.

From the topic

 

[shanus]

Did the first 2 with jiang's values which I think are too conservative. I'll need to test them and see how they work.

Okay, I think the missile change is too conservative. Super missile doesn't kill mario till 173% on the middle of FD. Chargeshot, however, kills at 78% from the middle of FD.

I think I realized why. The super missiles connect with a 55º angle knockback whereas samus chargeshot hits with a 40º knockback. I think the missile angle should be lowered, and growth raised a bit so it kills around 140%.

 

[CT Chia]

i definitely think those changes for the missiles are good

not sure about the status of homing missiles, but they should be weak and almost never kill. more for gimping (like if u hit them right after they use their double jump or upB)

 

[Revven]

Wait, we can edit projectiles now!? What about throws?

 

[shanus]

no throws, just projectiles.

I found pretty good values for missiles though, charge shot is still too strong thogh

 

[goodoldganon]

It should be strong. I'd like to test these changes with humans that know how to DI before we say it's too strong. Much like the DK punch the charge shot takes time to set up.

 

[shanus]

75% kill middle of FD though seems a bit strong tho

 

[goodoldganon]

75% kill middle of FD though seems a bit strong tho

Once again, I'd like to test with human DI. A friend just walked in, I'll test it now.

 

[goodoldganon]

I was able to live into the mid 90s with Mario DIing straight up. Still a little strong I suppose.


EDIT: Sry double post

 

[goodoldganon]

T-T-T-TRIPLE POST!!!!

I think Samus's F-smash is a little too potent of a kill. It's really quick and with the lower hitlag it makes it really hard to DI, since you can't really combo into it much. Spotdodge F-smash is a decent setup. Basically I think we should lower the Base Knockback and up it's Growth. Make it a solid finisher when they get into the 100-110s but not killing people in the 70-80s. That way we can justify the great knockback on Charge Shot since she has to combo into it or read the wakeup game.

 

[shanus]

Aight, thanks GoG

 

[leafgreen386]

Isn't the fact that you can't combo into the fsmash a reason to not reduce its kb? You can combo into charge shot, making it unavoidable if you set it up right. Fsmash not so much. And I'd rather all considerations be made with DI in mind. Players will be able to react to these moves and DI them appropriately. Anyone that plays against a character with any frequency knows what the opening frames of their kill moves look like. The average human can react within three frames of seeing something, so there's really no excuse for not DIing samus's fsmash.

 

[goodoldganon]

Isn't the fact that you can't combo into the fsmash a reason to not reduce its kb? You can combo into charge shot, making it unavoidable if you set it up right. Fsmash not so much. And I'd rather all considerations be made with DI in mind. Players will be able to react to these moves and DI them appropriately. Anyone that plays against a character with any frequency knows what the opening frames of their kill moves look like. The average human can react within three frames of seeing something, so there's really no excuse for not DIing samus's fsmash.

The setups for Charge Shot are fewer and farther between then the opportunities I can spot dodge F-smash. My friend isn't any good with Samus so I haven't been on the receiving end of it just dishing out. Just saying my experience is the F-smash is too good.

 

[Team Giza]

Can we please give her IASA frames on Samus' bomb jump so that she can have more effective uses for them both on and off the stage? I remember a lot of people requesting this a few months ago (namely Wes), and now we have the ability to do it.

 

[Revven]

No we don't Giza. Her Down B doesn't show up in PSA.

 

[shanus]

No we don't Giza. Her Down B doesn't show up in PSA.

wrong

look more, its pretty obvious to even find the function which puts her into morphball

 

[GHNeko]

Does that mean, bombs explode on contact?

 

[shanus]

No, the bombs are a separate prop. We can edit all aspects of her downB except the bombs.

 

[Team Giza]

Does that mean, bombs explode on contact?

No, I mean IASA frames on the bounce, so that when she bounces she would be able to cancel the morph ball animation in to attacks other than another bomb drop.