Samus floatyness

[Orichalcum]

I was thinking alot about this but here go:

Why is samus such a bad ranked character? Samus is below bowser, lucas, ness. But why? She got very good zair, good recovery. projectiles to keep your opponents occupied. UpB to counter emergency situations. But samus still is the 8th worst character of the game.
She has good tilts , good range on ftilt, covers alot with utilt (and kills), her smashes (besides up) are quick and good if they hit.

So what is one of her biggest downsides in the game?

Yeah its the floatyness. The style of playing brawl has facks her up so much. Countless times i got punished for missile canceling, which takes about 2 seconds to do. Countless times my opponent rushed through and got me even before i could hit him with zair!
Her floatyness is really the biggest downside imho. (besides offstage pwnage)

So i thought what would samus be without the very distanced zair/missile cancel playstyle.
I ran a few friendlies trying to not jump recklessly and space properly with her melee attacks and her damage output seems to be even higher.

Its easier to handle matchups like marths and MK if you just DONT missile and zair at all, unless you are in a really good situation to do so.

Her ftilt is the sheit. dsmash does good damage and safetly knocks away opponents even if they shielded. her UpB is probably the best thing you could ever do when feeling in a pinch.

Forget about the grab

but honestly. You probably should try it yourself to minimize the missiles and zairs in 1 game or 2.
She can be so much more deadly than ive seen in any vid before. The quick bairs saix does for example.

Well discuss about it because i have the feeling we all run the wrong style samus should be played

summary for all the tl,dr:
jumping puts samus in a very uncomfortable position and thats what the thread is about

 

[Ravin]

Lack of kill.

Dont get me wrong. She CAN kill. But she simply cannot do it easily. Its a difficult thing i believe all Samus mains have to go threw, a way to kill their opponent. by tricking them or stroke of luck.

Its not the fact she CANT kill, its how she has to kill.

 

[Orichalcum]

Im not talking about killing im talking about racking up damage and performing BETTER.
She will allways have the "i cant land a ****ing kill move" problem regardless of playstyle.
You should read what i meant once again and try it yourself im talking about the majority samus matches are hold, landing kills is a different story.
But you are totally right allthough i THINK she will have it easier when playing more engaged in close combat

 

[n00b]

OLD NEWS BUDDY

this is why i tend to not like zairing and missiling, but rather shield dashes, tilts, smashes, stuff like that. I only try to jump if my opponent is in the air too.

iono, ever since my smash partners switched to falco I jump a lot less.

 

[Orichalcum]

Good to know that im not the only one doing/thinking about this but i wonder why you didnt propose this since they are such old news. I see countless Samus beaten up and down because they spam recklessly.

Overall i wouldnt recommend it to only those very hard matchups like Marth Falco and MK. But to her overall gameplay

Dont get me wrong please im not trying to be mean but this seems so kinda basic and yet alot of players having troubles because of her jump (yeah **** jumping) including me.

 

[n00b]

rohins posted before not to jump within a certain range against certain characters somewhere, he has always noted how "pimp" or "cute" shield dash away -> ftilt is. i think he says ftilt is samus's best move lol. he also suggested to spam downsmash for damage and knockback since it'll never KO anyway, and just use it in place of dtilt and save the dtilt for the KO when you need it...

 

[Swordplay]

You think its the floatiness?

So you'd rather be Link?

Floatiness is what makes her recovery so good. If she wasn't floaty She would basically be Toon Link or Link with a longer zair and different projectiles.

Floatiness is also a great asset when she attempts to gimp opponents.

Personally I think its that her moves have low knockback.

 

[n00b]

i think it's her lack of multiple jumps, tornado, grenades, and chainthrows.

 

[Rohins]

It's the combination of her kill moves being weak and having terrible hitboxes (save dtilt, which is not a viable kill move vs heavies).

You mention a big weakness, but you can get around it. Basically rather than hanging in the air you can walk, run, do whatever on the ground. Problem solved. Nothing fixes her hitboxes and nothing makes her kill moves kill earlier.

Case and point: the biggest flaw in my game was fsmash spacing. Now I worked on fixing this a lot. To this day, I still get whiffs. Whether it's just the tip of the canon hitting (no knockback), me fsmashing over someone, to someone landing and I timed it a hair too early, the move has failed me countless times.

Then we have bair. Sure, you can get the timing and spacing down for bair. Your reward? If you happen to catch them with bad DI you can get an "early" kill. Otherwise it's just another average hit.

Her grab is ok and there are setups for landing the grab, but what is your big reward for landing this grab? Not too much. Uthrow to get charge time? "Fthrow to zair" (lol).

I'm not trying to knock your thread, I'm just saying no one is forcing Samus mains to jump. There is no way around the terrible qualities of some her moves though :/

 

[Orichalcum]

This is actually the thing i was looking for.
Im gonna work on my shield dashing and i totally share your opinion on ftilt and downsmash rohins. But i think you underestimate the bair, its more than an average hit you do to me. It comes out very quick and has a "good" knockback you just gotta hit with it which sucks.

 

[_Marth_]

Actually, I find Samus to be easy to Meteor smash with, and has great recovery. I agree her Zair is smexy, and I agree with her floatiness, it's kind of obnoxious at times, but Rohins is right, you don't HAVE to jump, it helps sometimes but if you can just keep people away from you with dsmash all you have to use is charge b and sideb. And yes, the bair can be as strong as a smash if you land a good, clean hit.

 

[MRS1]

Nice observations, Orichalcum. I hadn't really totally grasped this concept myself but it's true. Yeah f tilt is beast when I start using it a lot, I've had good luck with zair to f tilt in the past. This thread is filled with good info.

 

[tha_carter]

Yes, start beasting the tourney scene with 6%, low knockback ftilts. Its samus, not snake.

And her biggest disadvantage is lack of a reliable kill move.

 

[Orichalcum]

I dont know why you dont keep it to yourself if you cant contribute something constructive to this. We are not talking about ftilting all match long.

And maybe i should change the title into something like "her floatyness sucks". its not her main disatvantage ><

 

[tha_carter]

But her floatiness doesnt suck. Youre just looking at the negatives; whereas they are greatly outnumbered by the positive side.

Allows her to bomb jump
Makes spiking easier
recovery much better
Prevents Falco's Chaingrab
Allows for short-hopped double aerials
And overall gives samus' aerial game a boost

=) that being said; id disagree if you changed your title too.

 

[Orichalcum]

Yeah i dont know this thread is prolly bull**** and isnt about floatyness or anything i said lol. Still got some nice advice on different situations. I just tried that shield dashing and it really is awesome. Gave me alot more mobility. Oh well on a second thought this thread would be rather "advice on fast characters". I think i just had a bad time lately and got mindgamed too much

 

[-Crews-]

But her floatiness doesnt suck. Youre just looking at the negatives; whereas they are greatly outnumbered by the positive side.

Allows her to bomb jump
Makes spiking easier
recovery much better
Prevents Falco's Chaingrab
Allows for short-hopped double aerials
And overall gives samus' aerial game a boost

=) that being said; id disagree if you changed your title too.

hmm, very good points
----------------------------

but to actually add to the thread, i think its the combination of the way we play samus (short hops to the billionth power) with the simple fact that if a character gets in her comfort zone (about the size of melee marths fsmash tipper, maybe a little farther), she is probably screwed due to her inferior close combat game. those, imo are the two major contributors to her 8th worst character ranking.

 

[Hive]

hmmm as for weaknesses... I'd say her close/shoulder length range fighting and ability to be combo'd and grabbed well are her worst... she isn't too bad in these areas, but I think she's worse than most characters here because of her lack of kill moves and some of her powerful moves and her grab being fairly punishable... which is why characters who can usually close the gap on her usually gain advantages.... though I'm not sure I can point out anything specifically... XP I just know I usually gain more damage in this area than out of
her floatiness is bad but not too bad imo... ^^

 

[Rohins]

. But i think you underestimate the bair, its more than an average hit you do to me. It comes out very quick and has a "good" knockback you just gotta hit with it which sucks.

Don't get me wrong I'm thankful that it's capable of killing. It's just so precise. I know "get better with it" but seriously the thing misses if you're a hair off then and doesn't linger long enough to make up for it.

Yes, start beasting the tourney scene with 6%, low knockback ftilts.

Reliable, fast, covers a large amount of space. Of course you don't win tournaments due to one move Well at least not as Samus. My main point is, it's rare you see in the many many Samus videos out there good utility of ftilt spacing.

 

[Cherry64]

Lack of kill.

Dont get me wrong. She CAN kill. But she simply cannot do it easily. Its a difficult thing i believe all Samus mains have to go threw, a way to kill their opponent. by tricking them or stroke of luck.

Its not the fact she CANT kill, its how she has to kill.

I jsut get into the right positions more often then not. Sheild their smash and there's your opening and don't let them back on the stage until you've racked up another 20-30 damage. then use spacing moves like your jabs and missiles and wait till he tries to smash then shield and F smash him to kill. not overly hard.

 

[0RLY]

You think its the floatiness?

So you'd rather be Link?

Floatiness is what makes her recovery so good. If she wasn't floaty She would basically be Toon Link or Link with a longer zair and different projectiles.

Floatiness is also a great asset when she attempts to gimp opponents.

Personally I think its that her moves have low knockback.

If Samus fell as fast as Link, I would be in heaven. That would be 2 missiles a second, a zair that comes out twice as fast as Falco's lasers, a recovery that's still good due to bombs, less vulnerability after Screw Attack, LAGLESS AERIALS THAT COMBO. The only thing she would lose is spiking consistency, which I can live with because spikes are supposed to be awesome, not your only way to get an early kill. If Samus had a higher fall speed, her bair would be like Wolf's - it would land ALL DA FREAKIN TIME!