Samus' down-angled ftilt?

[3chairz]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to the community and I main sheik/samus.

I was just wondering, why do people use utilt to edgegaurd the spacies' sweetspot phantasm recovery and up b coming from below? Wouldn't it be easier to just do a down-angled ftilt? It's faster and puts your opponent at a good position (to be naired).

I feel that it's also easier when the spacies are hugging the stage jumping up with an aerial to hit them and take away their 2nd jump.

I know utilt works for lots of other situations (since it covers such a huge area and sends ur opponent way too far), but vs spacies' recoveries it doesn't feel as useful.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Violence]

I can see where you're coming from.

I think d angled ftilt is situationally better than utilt, I'm not as consistent with using it though. I usually end up whiffing. I guess it's something to practice. Also, I'd be curious to see if the ftilt covers the sweetspot like the utilt.

If a spacie comes up with an aerial, yeah, ftilt that mutha****a. That's my style, anyway, really, you can wavedash back and do whatever you please with him at that point.

Coming up with an aerial is overrated imo. Loses to wavedash back.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

the key thing you're missing is that the utilt hitbox extends below the stage

same as a down angled fsmash

IIRC

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Down Angled F-Tilt is awesome for edgeguards, esp. if you've read a sweetspot before it happens.

Up F-Tilt is rarely used and situational. I've considered using it against Jiggs more often.

 

[Geist]

Utilt is more disjointed than Ftilt last time I checked. A down angled ftilt is good too though, it can boil down to situation a lot.
If you can call them on their recovery, overall utilt can do more damage, and it has a better knockback, etc. I much prefer to use Utilt vs firefox/firebird.

And as TLR stated, Utilt extends below the ledge a good bit, only it's more difficult to tech utilt than it is Dsmash.

 

[ArstNeio]

Isn't down-angled ftilt go below the stage too? IIRC it does. Maybe ftilt the phantasm, utilt the firefox? I also find people expect the ftilt a lot less than they do the utilt; sometimes you might catch someone who thinks they are safe because they didn't see the utilt startup and then BAM ftilt gg maybe I'm playing against less skilled people though.

Up-angled ftilt is indeed quite nice in the Jigglypuff matchup; I find myself using it a decent amount. Still doesn't beat bair though, lolz, but it's a nice long hit box to throw up in the air. Against Puff the regular ftilt misses Jiggs who are short hopping aerials and also misses them when they are crouching, so the angles are important here.

 

[3chairz]

Hmm yeah, I tried out utilt and down angled ftilt a bit more yesterday, and the former is just more widely applicable (and is more gimpy). But I found down angled ftilt easier to use on phantasms, just cuz unlike firespacies, the hitbox is behind, so you have a much larger margin of error. Like if you're ready for it, you can wait for just before the phantasm makes the *shing* sound and down ftilt them, and even if you guess wrong and they do firespacies, you still have enough time to try and stop that.

It is quite hard to hit firespacies from below with down angled ftilt without getting hit. And if the spacies are at low%, getting hit basically guarantees their recovery since down ftilt doesnt **** as hard as utilt.

but against phantasm, down ftilt just basically props them down (slightly away from stage), so you can just drop nair/bair or wdash back grab ledge drop nair/bair etc. Or fsmash.

 

[Pi]

up angled ftilt vs. cfalc
they like to dair OoS, normal/low/jab he'll dair right over it

 

[Violence]

up angled ftilt vs. cfalc
they like to dair OoS, normal/low/jab he'll dair right over it

I LOVE doing that. I've hit someone with that like 4-5 times. It's so awful, but it feels so good.

 

[Pi]

yea samus actually has pretty legit shield pressure from behind at least.

 

[Geist]

I found down angled ftilt easier to use on phantasms, just cuz unlike firespacies, the hitbox is behind, so you have a much larger margin of error.

Yeah, to hit illusion with utilt you have to call it, whereas ftilt is usable on reaction.
Most of the time it's a smarter choice to just grab the ledge if you can call their recovery and have time to set it up. Edgehoging is usually a better way to go than both options.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

up angled ftilt vs. cfalc
they like to dair OoS, normal/low/jab he'll dair right over it

Didn't know that, thanks for this tidbit.

 

[3chairz]

Yeah, i'll try the up angled ftilt on falcon as well. There's this falcon that keeps stomping me...

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

up-B is generally more reliable than a ftilt

and if you keep jabbing their shield they shouldn't be able to stomp oos

 

[3chairz]

ok, tried a whole bunch of matches against spacies today. apparently good spacies dont often just phantasm on the ledge, making down angled ftilt too situation to be of awesome use

guess i'll just have to practice up on that utilt timing.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

just ftilt their phantasm

it always works

 

[Pi]

when i can i always chase spacies out off the stage...
and go for bairs....
because that looks mad tight...


na
i'll chase em with nairs when it's a serious match, i feel like you can even react to their DJ phantasm

 

[3chairz]

Yeah, dj phantasm at low % is kinda a pain. Cuz even if you hit them with nair, they can just phantasm sweetspot the ledge again while you're still floating around in the air.

any ways to get around that?

I thought that if you predict it, you can jump super missile. or waveland on platform to fsmash. or if it's low enough utilt tipper (lol).

 

[Geist]

Yeah, dj phantasm at low % is kinda a pain. Cuz even if you hit them with nair, they can just phantasm sweetspot the ledge again while you're still floating around in the air.

any ways to get around that?

If they do it properly, usually no.
But always be on the lookout for the opportunity to be gay.

 

[Pi]

woke up this morning thinking about edgeguarding spacies chasing w/ nair
thought about upair, because if you follow em, their DJ is faster than yours, and probably higher
but not sure how reliably upair will send them back off

 

[Geist]

Sometimes in friendles I walk off Uair and clip FFers with it. They drop the same way Luigi's coin spike works lol

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

woke up this morning thinking about edgeguarding spacies chasing w/ nair
thought about upair, because if you follow em, their DJ is faster than yours, and probably higher
but not sure how reliably upair will send them back off

I've edeguarded with run off the stage Uair before to counter Phantasms but it's definitely not something I like to do in serious matches lol.

 

[Pi]

Sometimes in friendles I walk off Uair and clip FFers with it. They drop the same way Luigi's coin spike works lol

i did that w/ ub once
barely clipped em and he fell down too far to recover.

 

[Violence]

I was experimenting on Yoshis with a jump, waveland off a platform, dj, bair. I've found you can get quite some range with it, and I think it's Dark Mike's weapon of choice against some characters, like Fox.

 

[AIDS]

Up tilt has more priority, often a recovery can go right through the F-tilt, Also up-tilt is very hard to wall tech, and the knockback is much greater. The only reason I would edge guard with F-tilt is to put them in another situation where i can get a more confirmed kill on my next move.

 

[edgeluca]

Sometimes in friendles I walk off Uair and clip FFers with it. They drop the same way Luigi's coin spike works lol

too Legit.

 

[DarrellD]

Uptilt just covers everything lol

Doward ftilts are great though for phantasms. I think thats the only time i perfer ftilts haha

 

[duals]

Uptilt just covers everything lol

Doward ftilts are great though for phantasms. I think thats the only time i perfer ftilts haha

does downward ftilts have more priority on the phantasms? because I tried just a regular ftilt but seems to just clank.. =\

 

[Pi]

the spacies hurtbox is in front of the hitbox when they phantasm
so time it sooner to hit their hurtbox, instead of clanking w/ their hitbox

make sense?

 

[duals]

wheres the hitbox?

 

[Geist]

 

[mers]

Whoa, I never realized there was so much slide after the illusion ended.

I guess that's why its fairly easy to edgecancel.