samus can be fast

[Jasona]

hopefully, nobody doubts that samus has some fast moves (jab, zair, dtilt, up+b, etc) and her auto-canceled aerials and missiles are nice. i also don't think that anyone would doubt that she has some slow moves (smashes, utilt) and some useless moves (bombs, usmash). however, just because she has some garbage options doesn't mean you need to use them and if you don't use them, she becomes much faster. the rule i generally try to follow is never/rarely smash. smashes can sometimes be useful, but most of the time there is a better option.

fsmash
its slow, has a short range and you can't follow it up. if you see an opportunity to fsmash, don't. instead, use the dtilt. the dtilt is fast (beginning and ending), reaches far and can be followed up (at low %). sometimes a fsmash would kill and a dtilt wouldn't. in those situations, you're on your own

usmash
its useless. maybe there might be a use for the dashing usmash, but the standing one is useless. if you ever consider using the usmash, please tell me about it so i can get you some help
i did include the dashing usmash in a combo that i'm going to include in my vid. landing zair, dash attack, jab, dashing usmash, bair... the bair only worked because the dashing usmash threw my opponent onto a nearby platform. otherwise he would have been thrown too far away. so i know that there is some use for the usmash, but its ridiculously situational

dsmash
its only use is to fight the roll. dtilt is better for everything else

this is it for the moment. i'll post some other stuff about being fast later. for now i just want to hear what you guys think about not using the smashes and about how you deal with the slowness of it all

EDIT - if you're wondering who i am and why you should listen to me about being fast, then watch this and smile a little - > she only gets better

 

[Aran]

I use the up smash a lot after dair spikes onto the stage. For most low-mid percentages, this'll be a free 20+ dmg that can be followed with your normal chase options. I don't see a reason why not to.

I use the down smash to fight decay on the dtilt, and for the occasional KO. It has a longer reach and of course, can be used to fight rolls.

Fsmash, you're on your own. I loved you in 64 though.

In fact, I realize that the thing I like about Samus as a character is that unlike a lot of characters with some godly options and some lame ones, every one of her moves (with the possible exception of fsmash, and even then it can be used occasionally for surprise ko's) typically get used in most of my matches. They each have purposes and serve them pretty well, which makes her incredibly flexible.

 

[I feel asleep]

a good player will use every option in their arsenal to the fullest.

every move has it's time and place, some moves(z-air) can be thrown out just about whenever with no repercussions. others(bombs) are have a very limited 'good' window of use. however, i can't tell you how many times i have dropped a bomb when someone air-dodges at me, only to have them grab me, and the bomb hit them giving me a free D-tilt....again, very situational.

If you can force your opponent into those situations all moves become great. it's all about mindgames.

 

[Undrdog]

-_- Sauna even I see the potential for the Up-Smash and I thought it was only a matter of time until you implemented it into your metagame. I suppose I should stop looking for you to use it the way I've been expecting you to. v_v

 

[Raiderwarlord99]

Alright it's about time I see a vid of you knockin Undrdog around for once!

 

[Undrdog]

Uh... It is true that I'm compressing our matches from yesterday as I type this. However it's also true that, due to Sauna's unwillingness to participate in the selection of which matches are to go online, I've chosen to choose matches at random. Perhaps you'll find a match where this happens in there. Unfortunately though, this wasn't the case for the large majority of the matches played yesterday.

We'll see how things work out. And before I get bashed, let me at least state that I've tried to post every match we've played thus far and therefore have no record of biasly uploading matches that are in my favor. >_< I get enough of that from YouTube punks as it is.


Oh and if you can't tell, I'm just egging Sauna on. Nothing more. ^_^ Just from watching Sauna's matches though I'm sure you can see Samus' potential in speed. I'm sure she'll only get faster as time goes on.

 

[Hylian]

Dsmash out of sheild is amazing.

Power missile to running upsmash wrecks shields.

Falling fair to angled fsmash works.

 

[Xyro77]

usmash

so i know that there is some use for the usmash, but its ridiculously situational

i like this kid^

 

[Raiderwarlord99]

Uh... It is true that I'm compressing our matches from yesterday as I type this. However it's also true that, due to Sauna's unwillingness to participate in the selection of which matches are to go online, I've chosen to choose matches at random. Perhaps you'll find a match where this happens in there. Unfortunately though, this wasn't the case for the large majority of the matches played yesterday.

We'll see how things work out. And before I get bashed, let me at least state that I've tried to post every match we've played thus far and therefore have no record of biasly uploading matches that are in my favor. >_< I get enough of that from YouTube punks as it is.


Oh and if you can't tell, I'm just egging Sauna on. Nothing more. ^_^ Just from watching Sauna's matches though I'm sure you can see Samus' potential in speed. I'm sure she'll only get faster as time goes on.

Oh it's all good I was just joking around with my last comment. I merely made the comment because I've seen a few of your montage vids with Pit & around that time i was wondering if there would ever be one for Samus since you guys had so many matches recorded. I'm just happy to c one thats all.

 

[0RLY]

Samus does lack speed in her attacks. Personally, I can't help but save my dtilt for the KO. I'll use it if my foe is <50%, but after that I stop. If I get an opportunity to use dtilt, I would jab instead. Running usmash works wonders. Not so fun when it hits a shield though. It's like Link's usmash, only smaller hit box and more damaging. Usmash is also faster than dsmash, I favor usmash over dsmash. Fsmash is much too slow and weak, I can't possibly think of a situation where another attack would do better. Up angled fsmash has more KO power, but even smaller hitbox. I prefer using utilt in place of my fsmash. It's just as strong, if not stronger and has more range. It has a bit slower startup speed, but that's fine since I'm using it like a smash attack.

 

[n00b]

some useless moves (bombs,)

give it some time.. i'll show these forums what some tricky bomb applications can do.. >_<

 

[VirisKnite]

Stop making us wait. All of these posts from you about bombs are driving me crazy with anticipation. The Samus boards needs something new.

Although now we have ISJR and SJR to mess around with. I want to try that out so much, but I'm out of town. I think Jasona is messing around with it though. Jasona how's that going btw?

 

[Paradigm]

Personally, I can't help but save my dtilt for the KO. I'll use it if my foe is <50%, but after that I stop. If I get an opportunity to use dtilt, I would jab instead. .

I used to do this too; I don't think it's quite the best idea anymore. The hitbox is much larger than the jab's, which coupled with it's speed makes it great for intercepting an opponents offensive push. Samus doesn't hold onto a stock that much better than her opponents - not in Brawl. It's better to risk wasting the ~10% earlier KO to ensure you avoid the 20% combo your opponent could have had. I'm still careful about wasting my dtilt due to it's huge cooldown time (if it's sidestepped or shielded - even non-powershielded - the punishment can be harsh), but I don't save it only for the KO as much as I used too.

Running usmash works wonders. Not so fun when it hits a shield though. It's like Link's usmash, only smaller hit box and more damaging.

I gotta try this. I gave up on shield pressure early on - I just pull back and start zairing.

Usmash is also faster than dsmash, I favor usmash over dsmash.

Maybe the usmash can be used for shield pressure - I haven't tried that yet. I don't see why you compare it to the dsmash, though. The dsmash's hitbox is quite different (larger horizontally) and it knocks your opponents back differently (depending on which part you hit with it can combo into the zair or pull people behind you Melee-style).

Fsmash is much too slow and weak, I can't possibly think of a situation where another attack would do better.

The hitbox is horrible but it definitely makes Samus' small list of KO moves, especially in a match where the dtilt's already been warn down a bit. Effective DI can keep the dtilt from KOing (Samus can't just keep them up there like a fox or marth could), where as good DI on the fsmash still leaves them to be edgeguarded (which Samus can do).

I prefer using utilt in place of my fsmash. It's just as strong, if not stronger and has more range. It has a bit slower startup speed, but that's fine since I'm using it like a smash attack

I've found I can use this on occasion to intercept people I've read well enough but in most circumstances it's way to slow. I'd give up the utilt long before the fsmash.

 

[Jasona]

Alright it's about time I see a vid of you knocking Undrdog around for once!

i don't win, but its fun to watch

wow, theres alot to respond to in this thread. just remember that everything i know is from fighting undr and his unspeakably monstrous pit. thats really all i fight
@n00b - the moment i change shape to drop a bomb, undr is all over me. he once saw me drop a bomb, ran over, fsmashed me and then began chasing me and the bomb still didn't explode
@orly - "Samus does lack speed in her attacks" are you doubting that some of her attacks are fast? as for the rest of your post, what works depends on your style and the style of your opponent. i fight undr and my move bias comes from fighting him. this thread is as much a learning tool for me as it is for anyone else. i'm hoping to figure out why i do the things that i do and maybe someone reading along might emulate some of my style. i won't say that you're wrong, neither will i say that I AM RIGHT. THE SMASHES AREn't necessarily USELESS
@xyro - i like me too
@hylian - dsmash out of the shield can't be followed up (unless she hits with the second swing) and if i blow it i always get smacked. with the dtilt i can immediately follow up, even if all i do is get a charge blast or blanket missiles and its not always lethal to miss.
power missile to dashing usmash... i can't imagine that against undr. by the time i finished firing the missile, he would have already powershielded it and probably have hit me for it. if i were in range for a dashing usmash. if i tried to missile cancel it, he'd see my form change and either arrow or dash attack me. the dash attack and ftilt usually own missile cancels. plus i'm having a hard time finding the right distance so that the dashing usmash eats the shield. undr usually finds ways to grab me in the middle of consecutive attacks that i thought were too fast, although i'm not sure if he has grabbed me out of the usmash while it was executing on his shield *shudders* i need to move so much faster than i have been

@undr - i win. i win again, and again, and again

 

[Undrdog]

Those matches are fabrications manifested from Jasona's subconscious and should be dismissed as garbage in the same sense Jasona's Samus is garbage and is also a product of his subconscious / Button Mashing. >_>

On a serious note however I tend to disagree with Xyro a lot and am inclined to disagree with his last post too.

n00b, ignore everything else and keep experimenting with the bomb. When you discover a way to give Samus a FS via a bomb glitch I want to be the first person to stand by your side an TROLL the everloving crap out of the Samus forums. ^_^ /being totally serious

 

[Crystanium]

fsmash
its slow, has a short range and you can't follow it up. if you see an opportunity to fsmash, don't. instead, use the dtilt. the dtilt is fast (beginning and ending), reaches far and can be followed up (at low %). sometimes a fsmash would kill and a dtilt wouldn't. in those situations, you're on your own

I think otherwise. I've come to the point where I found f-smash to do wonders. My brother and I were in Training Mode one day, and he was Captain Falcon. I was Samus. He used his Forward+B, and I spot-dodged, only to strike him. The thing with the f-smash is that Samus can be looking in one direction, and effortlessly use the f-smash in another.

usmash
its useless. maybe there might be a use for the dashing usmash, but the standing one is useless. if you ever consider using the usmash, please tell me about it so i can get you some help

Au contraire. Using this against characters who are standing above you, or heavy characters who are standing above or right next to you is useful, actually. Every attack is useful in some way. It just needs to be used properly.

dsmash
its only use is to fight the roll. dtilt is better for everything else

I agree with you here. However, the f-smash can be useful against opponents who roll as well. After all, Samus needn't turn around before she can perform it in the other direction. She can be looking to the left, and then use f-smash to the right.

 

[JettythatSamus]

this is a metagame trick with mindgame properties.

dash behind shielding opponent to reverse fsmash. quickly press and release L or R to put up your shield and stop your dashing animation. works wonders. if they shield it, they can't punish.

i might take it upon myself to come up with good situations for fsmash. i use it regularly and i dont really get punished.

an angled fsmash will hit an opponent going for the ledge. easiest to connect against foxes and falcos and wolfs using their side B. (dont know what they're callin it these days)

 

[n00b]

^ Within dash distance, you can do the same thing without the shield by true pivot fsmashing..