Sakurai's Retirment -- Your Stance

[Bedoop]

See, my thing is...


If Sakurai goes, so does a lot of Smash's charm. If we got a more fan-responsive director... well, say goodbye to character Game and Watch

OH, HELL NO. WE ARE KEEPING MR. GAME AND WATCH AND THAT IS THAT.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

If Sakurai retires, so does Smash. There's no way another director is keeping it together at this point.

 

[Niala]

"I think a change of direction may be what’s needed.”

Couldn't have said it better myself, Sakurai.

 

[ChikoLad]

It goes without saying that Sakurai will have to eventually step down from the series. However, when he eventually does this, I want him to be an adviser, like he was with Kirby and the Amazing Mirror. No matter what you think, Smash wouldn't be what it is without his creative direction and amazing drive.

The point about his amazing drive in particular, is the key here. The fact of the matter is, not many people are insane enough to work on what is probably the video game series with the most at stake and with the most weight behind it, while dealing with a condition like calcific tendinitis, making the most trivial of everyday tasks extremely painful, let alone AAA game development. Not many people would work on a game without a handsome paycheck being part of the equation (I'm sure Sakurai gets one, but it seems like it isn't even part of his motivation for working on the series. He's obviously really sentimentally attached to it). And not many people would work six days a week on such a game and actually find joy in it.

The man is a hero as far as I'm concerned, and if someone is to carry the torch, they need personal tutoring from him, no matter how experienced they are. Sakurai is one of a kind, I cannot think of a single developer who works and thinks like he does. Therefore, at the present time, nobody is suitable for taking over from him.

I say this with the mindset that Smash is not for any particular crowd, be it competitive or casual, or anything else. If Smash was just for one particular crowd, many people from that crowd could take over. However, it's a one of a kind game, and it is what it is because of the one of a a kind man behind it.

 

[Vigilante]

This is a bit of a conundrum.

As a human being, I’m against just demanding that someone lose his job. I’ve been through it, and no matter what my grievances are with Mr. Sakurai’s current management of the franchise, I don’t wish him any harm.

Mr. Sakurai is a talented individual. He made what could be arguably called the best Kirby game of all time, a very competent sequel to Kid Icarus, and he created the concept to Super Smash Bros. among many things. He arguably made the greatest official video game of all time (in my humble opinion), Super Smash Bros. Melee. There is no denying that he has the ability to make amazing games.

On the other hand, he seems very set in his ways and unwilling to compromise. Mr. Sakurai has no reason to ignore the competitive community as the more party smasher audience will keep buying Smash Bros. no matter what. In fact, I would even argue that he has gained absolutely nothing from taking this stance. All this has contributed to do is turn away one part of the audience while making no visible change to the party smasher audience fidelity.

As talented as he is, he still fails to see that depth and accessibility are not mutually exclusive. As opposed to being a continuum where being a deeper game automatically makes a game less accessible and vice versa, he fails the see the basic fact that depth and accessibility can exist in concert and already have in Super Smash Bros Melee. The game was being played at both party and competitive levels, and neither audience was being hurt by that. Embracing that dual-layered game design would have made a lot more sense from many perspectives:

On one hand, no backlash, no divided community. Has they kept the Melee battle system as a base (but improved on it like Project M did), they would have saved a lot of time. Brawl would have taken less time to make most likely as well. A stable battle system makes balancing more efficient, but also allows for putting more focus on new content. Some say that Smash changes a lot every time, but then again, in its current state, Smash U is very similar to Brawl. They seem to be employing that strategy but with a Brawl battle system.

There is also an advantage to having a thriving competitive community: It creates brand loyalty. By having a competitive smash community and making sure that every game follows the basic precepts hat we need for every smash game (advanced techs, battle system that rewards taking risks and comboing, high speed), you create a sub-group of individuals that will “always” buy your game and your system. It creates a buffer for when consoles do poorly as you basically have an almost 100% chance that you will sell a baseline amount. Nurturing that scene increases that baseline.

Furthermore, competitive scenes attract competitive players, thus attract competitive games. Playstation systems have a lot of high quality fighters. Thus, makers of fighting games develop mainly for Playstation systems.

Finally, a good competitive scene improves the visibility of your product. If Nintendo were to say… sponsor high level gameplay, including speedrunners, they could demonstrate the hardcore elements of their games and heavily challenge their “childish” reputation.

Mr. Sakurai created that rift while he could have avoided it completely. He made things harder on himself and I really wonder why he did that.

There is also the fact that Mr. Sakurai has many times complained about making sequels, and that he initially left Nintendo at some point to stop making sequels. It did not work out and he came back. I believe that he is an artist that wants to reinvent himself and who is frustrated by continued sequelization. He has long been the Kirby guy and perhaps he felt uninspired by that. I think that giving him projects other than Kirby or Smash would be a good thing for his sake. He seemed excited to re-invent Kid Icarus, and I think that at this point, he just needs to let loose and try new things.

I would much rather he take an open-minded stance and actually enlists help from the community and mostly focus on flexing his creative muscles and leave the balance and battle system in the hands of pro players and people who have hands-on character-development experience in the modding community (yes, pros can be terrible character designers, so just being a pro isn’t enough). I would rather we work together than see someone lose his job. We’re a reasonable community and there’s no reason we couldn’t get along and help each other.

However, if Mr. Sakurai is unwilling to compromise, I would rather see him shipped to other projects. He has valuable skills, but anyone who is unwilling to take criticism cannot improve. A smash game made with this mindset will never evolve into something greater.

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I feel like if his arm/hand issue gets too bad for him to regularly program, then that's the only way he should step back. And even if/when that happens, he should still be on the project, but in a more... supervisory? role. He should still be the guy to say if X mechanic or character is given the OK, but maybe not directly program X mechanic or character if it would cause him issues with his injury.

 

[SmashBro99]

For everyone who is saying we need someone new so smash can be more competitive, its a casual party game and I hope if we do get someone else to make it they don't even allow you guys to turn items off, that would be amazing.

 

[JaidynReiman]

For everyone who is saying we need someone new so smash can be more competitive, its a casual party game and I hope if we do get someone else to make it they don't even allow you guys to turn items off, that would be amazing.

No, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. A lot of casual players don't like items, or only like to do specific items. Why remove a feature like that?

Now, I do think its also stupid people complaining how Smash can't be competitive because Sakurai wants a more simplified experience. Why do we need Advanced Techniques or anything to make the game competitive? I think that's stupid. But its also stupid destroying competitive play all-together. Sakurai is keeping things simple while also reducing the random factor to agree in things that can't be changed, such as movesets.

 

[FalKoopa]

For everyone who is saying we need someone new so smash can be more competitive, its a casual party game and I hope if we do get someone else to make it they don't even allow you guys to turn items off, that would be amazing.

What does it have to do with Sakurai's retirement?

No, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. A lot of casual players don't like items, or only like to do specific items. Why remove a feature like that?

Now, I do think its also stupid people complaining how Smash can't be competitive because Sakurai wants a more simplified experience. Why do we need Advanced Techniques or anything to make the game competitive? I think that's stupid. But its also stupid destroying competitive play all-together. Sakurai is keeping things simple while also reducing the random factor to agree in things that can't be changed, such as movesets.

A bit of an overreaction, isn't it... considering the post was a bait?

 

[JaidynReiman]

What does it have to do with Sakurai's retirement?


A bit of an overreaction, isn't it... considering the post was a bait?

Another person posted a huge competitive complaint prior, so I was under the impression SmashBros99 made that statement in reply to the other guy's one about wanting a new developer to come in to make Smash more competitive. Ah, it was Vigilante who said that.

 

[Phaazoid]

I love Sakurai as a father

But he's literally killing himself at this point.

For his own stake, he needs to stop. He's already brought us our salvation. Time to immaculately impregnate someone with his heir.

 

[Vigilante]

For everyone who is saying we need someone new so smash can be more competitive, its a casual party game and I hope if we do get someone else to make it they don't even allow you guys to turn items off, that would be amazing.

Removing options is the stupidest thing a game designer can ever do. Ever.

Removing competitive options, advanced techniques, characters, modes, anything is utter stupidity. It only makes the prequel more appealing.

 

[D-idara]

We’re a reasonable community and there’s no reason we couldn’t get along and help each other.

No, but seriously, if there's an unreasonable, poisonous (All-around) community, it's the Smash one, and I don't mean Melee, or Brawl, or PM, the Smash community as a whole.

 

[Vigilante]

We don't demand all that much. All we ask for is a fast-paced experience, keeping advanced techs from past games and a combat system that rewards taking risks and initiative rather than punishing it. These are extremely reasonable demands.

The more ridiculous demands I see come form the party smashing community to be perfectly honest. I've seen them rally in large numbers to petition the removal of "For Glory" because they didn't want competitive gamers to have "Anything", not even a half-baked mode.

We've been far less demanding that most fighting game communities. What irks us is not that they aren't tailoring the entire game 100% to our demands, it's that they are going out of their way to be a nuisance to the community. They are making the games "against" us, removing the elements we love about competitive smash one by one as opposed to embracing us as part of the fanbase.

The rest of the fanbase... the party smashers... I don't want to generalize because I have come across reasonable party smashers, but I've heard the most intolerant trash being uttered from their mouths at times. They are being toxic to the entire community as a whole by seeking to destroy the experience of others just for the sake of being difficult and anti-competitive "bcuz ur not s'posed to be gud and sakurai dun want u to wavedach". They spout nonsense such as stating that there is only one way to play a transformative experience influence by an individual's perception and control by nature. They demand the removal of features that do not affect them for the mere purpose of hating people based on the fact that they exist and are doing something differently.

As I've stated, I am thankful for all of the reasonable, open-minded party smashers I have come across. They were a delight to talk to and have been willing to get informed and while they did not join competitive smash, they have enough good faith to sympathize with competitive smashers. As for the least open-minded ones however, as Ike would say, they get no sympathy from me.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Wait why would people petition removal of For Glory mode?Just pick something else.

 

[JaidynReiman]

We don't demand all that much. All we ask for is a fast-paced experience, keeping advanced techs from past games and a combat system that rewards taking risks and initiative rather than punishing it. These are extremely reasonable demands.

The more ridiculous demands I see come form the party smashing community to be perfectly honest. I've seen them rally in large numbers to petition the removal of "For Glory" because they didn't want competitive gamers to have "Anything", not even a half-baked mode.

We've been far less demanding that most fighting game communities. What irks us is not that they aren't tailoring the entire game 100% to our demands, it's that they are going out of their way to be a nuisance to the community. They are making the games "against" us, removing the elements we love about competitive smash one by one as opposed to embracing us as part of the fanbase.

The rest of the fanbase... the party smashers... I don't want to generalize because I have come across reasonable party smashers, but I've heard the most intolerant trash being uttered from their mouths at times. They are being toxic to the entire community as a whole by seeking to destroy the experience of others just for the sake of being difficult and anti-competitive "bcuz ur not s'posed to be gud and sakurai dun want u to wavedach". They spout nonsense such as stating that there is only one way to play a transformative experience influence by an individual's perception and control by nature. They demand the removal of features that do not affect them for the mere purpose of hating people based on the fact that they exist and are doing something differently.

As I've stated, I am thankful for all of the reasonable, open-minded party smashers I have come across. They were a delight to talk to and have been willing to get informed and while they did not join competitive smash, they have enough good faith to sympathize with competitive smashers. As for the least open-minded ones however, as Ike would say, they get no sympathy from me.

I see just as much bigotry coming from some competitive players as well. Now, I can understand idiocy on both sides and yes, I am aware of idiotic casual players, but I don't see them very often, and many times more casual/party players simply respond to competitive purists nitpicking every little detail.

Why remove For Glory mode? Its pointless and stupid. I might like to try For Glory once and a while; I've considered myself pretty good in the past although I'm probably not the best. Might help me to improve a bit if I see how real competitive players get into it. For Glory is an optional mode you don't have to play, people complaining about it is totally stupid.


At the same time, I'm also not sure why the game can't be simple and competitive at the same time. Making the game more in between Melee/Brawl? Fine, not a big deal, but why must everything be so complicated? We can't have a simpler experience but still have it competitive?

Now, I will admit, tripping was targeting competitive play, but this game is removing all the randomness from the past, and I don't see how Sakurai is "removing" all the competitive elements. What competitive elements are being removed? How are things working "against" competitive players? I'm certainly not seeing it.


Also, wavedashing was an unintentional exploit that ruined a lot of the fun, that's why it was removed. I really would like directional air dashing to come back, though, I loved that in Melee.


Before you also mentioned removing game modes. What game modes were removed? I can't think of any removed game modes, and the only thing that was changed is Adventure Mode became Subspace Emissary, and an SSE-like story mode won't be included in this game. That's it. Are there any game modes that were removed I'm unaware of, or are you just commenting about bigoting casual players wanting game modes to be removed? Which is stupid and unnecessary as I already said, if you don't like the mode don't play it, so I totally agree about that comment.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would be happy to see him go. His legacy will absolutely live on; there are many people to choose from, and I'm sure he would have say in who takes over-- this means it would be something like his protege, his legacy but with a new perspective. Best of both.

Personally, I'd love to see someone else take over for SSB6, and then See sakurai back for SSB7.

If Sakurai goes, so do I.

Without him, we might as well just have yet another cookie cutter fighting game, just with Nintendo characters.

Go for it, I don't think Nintendo's highest selling game needs your individual support. It is ridiculous to already be judging a nameless director who has not yet been crowned.

 

[Dracometeor]

As long as the game is faster then Brawl with some AT's I'll be happy with any Smash Bros. Wave dashing and L canceling are NOT the type of AT's that I want to see though. Examples of good ones would be Short hops, Fast falling, Grab out of shield, Jump out of shield, Crouch canceling and etc. AT's that don't require amazing timing or extremely fast inputs are great. I prefer to have the AT's be more situational where you need to know WHEN to do it, not just know and input a quick button combination.

This is why I like Smash bros. in general. The ability to string together a combo in multiple ways. I'm a basic AT lover and counterintuitive it sounds. But it makes the game better for competitive and non competitive parties with less of a barrier of entry for competition.

I mean who actually enjoyed spending hours perfecting your timing just so you could wavedash.... or even L canceling(which is the worst AT I've seen yet, you have to always do it or you get punished for it and an AT should NEVER be mandatory for any given situation)

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

If Sakurai departs, so too should Smash in general. With a new director, I worry it would end up like Starcraft II or Diablo III, a grossly mutated thing wearing on its face the label of a beloved game, but something critical is... Missing. That missing element just makes the entire game a slog to endure, and it loses a fair amount of charm. If Nintendo wants to make a 'serious' crossover fighter, then it shouldn't bear the name Smash, that way people don't get confused.

 

[Xigger]

Smash Bros. is amazing for its fan service and clear love for its characters, history, and fans. Even the competitive gameplay is a part of that fan service.

If someone other than Sakurai takes over for Smash Bros., then it needs to be a director with the same devoted spirit.

 

[SmashBro99]

Removing options is the stupidest thing a game designer can ever do. Ever.

Removing competitive options, advanced techniques, characters, modes, anything is utter stupidity. It only makes the prequel more appealing.

There would be a shoddy hack where you could remove them anyway, probably

 

[YoshiandToad]

Voted yes.

Sakurai's done a great job setting up the basic formula, and I'd be fine with him being an advisor, but the guy should probably stop killing himself over the game.

For the record I don't believe no one else would of thought of including Pit. Kid Icarus isn't THAT obscure, and many people were calling for Pit back in Melee.

Of course we wouldn't have the exact same Pit as we do now, since Sakurai's handywork updated that particular franchise. There's a chance someone else in Nintendo may have revived it, but frankly unlikely.

Can Smash go on without Sakurai?

Yes of course it can.

Kirby certainly did. Mario can go on without Miyamoto. Zelda has. This is normal, and I'm surprised to see people so adverse to fresh blood.

 

[Vigilante]

For Pit though, I think he was added in because he was already working on a Kid Icarus game concept to be honest, lol.

 

[JaidynReiman]

For Pit though, I think he was added in because he was already working on a Kid Icarus game concept to be honest, lol.

No, Pit was added specifically for Smash Bros. After Pit's popularity and inclusion in Smash Bros. they came up with doing a new Kid Icarus game. And they started with planning a Star Fox game in very early concepts before they settled on Kid Icarus. Kid Icarus: Uprising was not planned or in discussion until well after Brawl came out.