Sakurai's column from Famitsu issue of November 21st, 2013

[majora_787]

I really don't understand how people can look at Melee and say "That right there is a wonderfully balanced game," because for all the things Melee did better than Brawl, balancing was not one of them (Meta Knight notwithstanding)

Good thing Sakurai's working with a group to balance the game for once, yeah? Maybe if we're lucky, the chain of Super Pikachu Bros. 64, Super Fox Brox. Melee, and Super Meta Knight Brawl will be broken.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Some people should check this out, it explains why perfect balance is bad in it's own way. It does need it's flavor, I just hope it's not at the expence of really bad balance. and more like perfect imbalance.

I enjoy watching Extra Credits from time-to-time, but this is one video that I flat out disagree with. The very idea of purposefully designing one character/mechanic/whatever to be straight-up more powerful than the others is maddeningly counter-intuitive. Also notice that all of his examples are about well-balanced strategy games, and how dexterity or established strategies trump experimentation. Fighting games simply do not apply as they require dexterity and a set number of optimal strategic positioning choices by design. Any balancing discrepancies, intentional or not, will severely limit the number of options a player has. Better balance = more variety, which is more interesting for both viewers and players.

The only thing "perfect imbalance" accomplishes is making the game extremely top-heavy over time, unless it is heavily patched very frequently. Even then strategies tend to get established very quickly, such as Bat Rider and Io being banned/picked in over 95% of professional Dota 2 matches despite frequent changes to the game.

Final note: His point about "cyclical imbalance" is inherently flawed because it is not an exclusive phenomena in an imbalanced game. A well made, very balanced game goes through this cycle as well because every character/whatever has weaknesses that can be exploited. With a purposefully imbalanced game all you're doing is revolving the metagame around one choice. That's bad game design.

 

[Slugma128]

Sakurai sounds like he has the biggest ego of any developer.

 

[mimgrim]

I really don't understand how people can look at Melee and say "That right there is a wonderfully balanced game," because for all the things Melee did better than Brawl, balancing was not one of them (Meta Knight notwithstanding)

Look, I'm not a Brawl hater, in fact I have a slight preference towards Brawl over Melee because the game feels slightly more comfortable to me. However that doesn't change the fact that Melee is better balanced then Brawl and you can't just say MK notwithstanding when that is one of the biggest balanced issues in Brawl. But there is a much more defined gap between the tiers in Brawl then there is in Melee. In Melee you have a better chance of using a mid tier or low tier character and place good then you do in Brawl. Then let's go into Chain Grabs, do they exist in Melee? Yes they do but they are no where near as dominant and are harder to pull off and can be DI'd out of and thus don't have as much of an impact, otherwise Fox wouldn't be considered the best character in Melee. Now whether it is a wonderfully balanced game is open to discussion, but it is better balanced then Brawl, and that ain't a opinion.

 

[Violenceman]

I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but everyone should remember that this column has been translated from Japanese to English. A lot of nuance is lost whenever a quote changes languages. Just something to keep in mind when analyzing the word choice and tone.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

THREAD TL;DR:


Sakurai is designing SSB4 to correct the spotty balance seen in Brawl, despite his own measures to input character code himself. People are nervous about the vague nature of this statement, as this made Brawl not enjoyable for some. But no matter what job they do balancing the roster, there will always be faults present in every character to exploit to their advantage.

 

[majora_787]

THREAD TL;DR:


Sakurai is designing SSB4 to correct the spotty balance seen in Brawl, despite his own measures to input character code himself. People are nervous about the vague nature of this statement, as this made Brawl not enjoyable for some. But no matter what job they do balancing the roster, there will always be faults present in every character to exploit to their advantage.

You mean the spotty balance in smash, in general?

 

[FlamingForce]

I really don't understand how people can look at Melee and say "That right there is a wonderfully balanced game," because for all the things Melee did better than Brawl, balancing was not one of them (Meta Knight notwithstanding)

I think Melee was a perfectly balanced game (Every imbalance notwithstanding.)

 

[majora_787]

I think Melee was a perfectly balanced game (Every imbalance notwithstanding.)

I guess it was, if we ignore Fox Sheik Marth Falco Jiigglypuff Peach whatever, and also ignore Pichu and Bowser.

But then again, we could also say Brawl was perfectly balanced as long as we ignore Meta Knight, Olimar, Ice Climbers, and most of the zelda series.

Or 64 was perfectly balanced if we ignore Pikachu.

 

[BKupa666]

I think most people are (or should be) wholly aware that "perfect balance" is impossible in a game with 39+ unique characters, but it's entirely possible to narrow down the gaps between characters' skill by fixing obvious flaws.

Example, based on early Brawl videos, Japanese players discovered Dedede's chaingrab on DAY ONE after its release; there's no way it wasn't an intentional addition. For whatever reason, favoritism or skewed perception of balance or anything else, Sakurai decided it would be a wonderful idea to pour hours into crafting every minute detail of such a flaw, one that is apparent however anyone decides to play the game, with items or without, in a free-for-all or a one-vs.-one.

Then, there's just Meta Knight and Ganondorf's entire movesets...but, it seems as though acknowledgment that those are flawed is enough to make people simultaneously claim that the rest of the balance is okay, when parts of it totally aren't, they're just far more okay than Meta Knight and Ganondorf.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Now whether it is a wonderfully balanced game is open to discussion, but it is better balanced then Melee, and that ain't a opinion.

I think you meant to say Brawl here. If so I agree with everything you just said.

Also 999 is awesome.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Example, based on early Brawl videos, Japanese players discovered Dedede's chaingrab on DAY ONE after its release; there's no way it wasn't an intentional addition. For whatever reason, favoritism or skewed perception of balance or anything else, Sakurai decided it would be a wonderful idea to pour hours into crafting every minute detail of such a flaw, one that is apparent however anyone decides to play the game, with items or without, in a free-for-all or a one-vs.-one.

To add insult to injury, this is easily one of the most fixable flaws in Super Smash Bros.

Project M modifies those types of throws so that the opponent hits the ground, instead of being pushed to the side. This means that it's impossible to preform chain grabs in a traditional sense, because you cannot grab opponents while they're on the ground. This changes how King Dedede in particular plays; instead of relying on chain grabbing, the character instead puts more emphasis on tech chasing.

 

[BlitznBurst]

I think Melee was a perfectly balanced game (Every imbalance notwithstanding.)

Anything can be called perfect if you're going to ignore every single imperfection but that doesn't mean those imperfections aren't there

 

[LiteralGrill]

Just because Ganondorf keeps getting brought up, he's actually really good with items and can actually get a bunch of infinites and other crazy things with them.

I could live with certain characters being better in certain modes, those I admit thee distance is a bit too far with Ganon.

 

[mimgrim]

I think you meant to say Brawl here. If so I agree with everything you just said.

Also 999 is awesome.

Yea I did mean to say Brawl. Friggen fingers if I could live without them I would get rid of them lol.

And yea it is, fixing to switch to a Clover avi from 99 but having a hard time finding a good axe picture of her to get the full effect she made on the game.

 

[SmashChu]

No surprise, people flip their **** on the balance comment. I think people aren't considering the nature of balance and instead ******** at Sakurai because he made Brawl or something.

First, no game is going to be perfectly balanced. Aint going to happen. Street Fighter 2 was considered to be very balanced..........though it wasn't at all. The game still had it's high, middle and low tier. But the mid and low tier characters had good match-ups against some of the high tier characters. So players would main a top tier character and had a second one to deal with the bad match-ups. Starcraft was widley considered to be perfectly balanced. It was amount the three races. But it wasn't among the units. Each race had overpowered units that they relied on. Terran had Marines and Tanks, Zerg had Lerkers, and the Protoss had the Reaver. So the game was balanced because of broken units. So why does this happen. This is because you can't take a game of 35 characters (probably close to 50 now) and expect that in every situation they will come out even. The characters are too varied and have too many distinct abilities. The only way you are going to get them even is too make them closer to each other. Which means stripping their personality and what makes them different. But let's look at some games with "good" balance.

Someone mentioned overbalance, which is a good point. Blizzard has notorious for this and it's hurt the quality of their games. They balance everything. Now all the classes have a self heal which helps to reduce the uniqueness of them. What Sakurai is saying is he wants the game to be fun. Part of that is having a lot of different and interesting characters. You going to have low, mid and high tiers as a result. There is no point of having a perfectly balanced and fined tuned game if it's not fun to play.

I really don't understand how people can look at Melee and say "That right there is a wonderfully balanced game," because for all the things Melee did better than Brawl, balancing was not one of them (Meta Knight notwithstanding)

Because "Melee good. Brawl bad." If your ever confused at the dumb things people say, just think back to this and it will all make sense.

 

[NitrusVirus]

Sakurai seems a bit too overzealous. We'll see whether thats a good or bad thing. Personally I think he should at least have a few assistants at this point with a project this size, especially considering Namco is on the job as well.

 

[FlamingForce]

Anything can be called perfect if you're going to ignore every single imperfection but that doesn't mean those imperfections aren't there

In the same way Brawl can be said to have gotten the balance better then Melee got it if you're going to ignore Meta Knight who's probably the single biggest reason that that statement is false.

 

[majora_787]

In the same way Brawl can be said to have gotten the balance better then Melee got it if you're going to ignore Meta Knight who's probably the single biggest reason that that statement is false.

You can pretend the series isn't Super Pikachu Bros., Super Fox Bros., and Super Meta Knight Bros. all you want. It still kind of is. Because every game is balanced by one person. And none of them came out balanced very close to perfectly.

 

[mimgrim]

You can pretend the series isn't Super Pikachu Bros., Super Fox Bros., and Super Meta Knight Bros. all you want. It still kind of is. Because every game is balanced by one person. And none of them came out balanced very close to perfectly.

I'm sorry but the comparison between Fox from Melee and MK from Brawl is not as close as you imply it is. The only reason Fox is considered the best character in Melee is because in theory a 100% perfect Fox is unbeatable, but guess what, a imperfect creature will never be able to play a perfect Fox. Hell did you know that in Melee Fox hasn't even won a national until recently? To add on to that Fox actually has a few bad match-ups and even match-ups unlike MK. MK doesn't need to have a perfect level of play, has won nationals since the beginning of Brawl, and doesn't have a single bad match-up and supposedly only a single even match-up, which many many many people will argue is in fact not a even match-up. Sure Melee isn't perfectly balance and has it's share of unbalances but it still has better balance then Brawl and is no where near Brawl's balance as you seem to imply it is. e_e

 

[FlamingForce]

You can pretend the series isn't Super Pikachu Bros., Super Fox Bros., and Super Meta Knight Bros. all you want. It still kind of is. Because every game is balanced by one person. And none of them came out balanced very close to perfectly.

I feel we've reached the point where I need to specifically explain that my initial post was a sarcastic exaggeration of what I was quoting and nothing more then that, I'm getting a little confused by what appear to be deadly serious replies attempting to explain your point of view even though I was only pointing out Blitz's flawed statement.

I will, however, tell you that Super Fox Bros is also a mighty exaggeration in comparison to Meta Knight, Fox isn't even close to MK's level of dominance and never has been.

 

[Jumpman84]

I feel we've reached the point where I need to specifically explain that my initial post was a sarcastic exaggeration of what I was quoting and nothing more then that, I'm getting a little confused by what appear to be deadly serious replies attempting to explain your point of view even though I was only pointing out Blitz's flawed statement.

I will, however, tell you that Super Fox Bros is also a mighty exaggeration in comparison to Meta Knight, Fox isn't even close to MK's level of dominance and never has been.

Good sir, if that was the case, then why are tournaments "No items. Fox only. Final Destination."

Seriously though, if Fox isn't dominant, then why have a rule for Fox only at tournaments? Seems suspicious if you ask me...

 

[FlamingForce]

Good sir, if that was the case, then why are tournaments "No items. Fox only. Final Destination."

Seriously though, if Fox isn't dominant, then why have a rule for Fox only at tournaments? Seems suspicious if you ask me...

Not as suspicious as people yelling "Ban MK"

 

[majora_787]

Not as suspicious as people yelling "Ban MK"

I know for a fact that I can find people who think Fox should be banned, now that they know banning characters is a thing that happens. And I haven't heard people yell "Ban Meta Knight" in a long time.

 

[FlamingForce]

I know for a fact that I can find people who think Fox should be banned, now that they know banning characters is a thing that happens. And I haven't heard people yell "Ban Meta Knight" in a long time.

I know for a fact that I can find people who think Fox shouldn't be banned.

Anecdotal evidence sure is nice, isn't it? It was only yesterday that I heard someone say "Ban MK plz"

 

[majora_787]

I know for a fact that I can find people who think Fox shouldn't be banned.

Anecdotal evidence sure is nice, isn't it? It was only yesterday that I heard someone say "Ban MK plz"

And it was only yesterday that I heard absolutely zero people say "Ban MK plz".

Your really sad attempt at making Melee sound balanced compared to the rest of the series really isn't working out as well as you think it is, I'm just saying.

 

[Jumpman84]

Not as suspicious as people yelling "Ban MK"

Banning things is stupid, anyway. "Oh, hey look! There's something that other people enjoy, but I don't like. It should be banned!"

 

[majora_787]

Banning things is stupid, anyway. "Oh, hey look! There's something that other people enjoy, but I don't like. It should be banned!"

I think the issue was, instead of treating it like they did Fox, people saw Meta Knight and how ridiculous he was and instead of actually looking for ways to beat him down, they called for bans.

They then found ways to beat him down anyway through his overpowered...ness, and people stopped yelling for bans as much as they did.

 

[FlamingForce]

And it was only yesterday that I heard absolutely zero people say "Ban MK plz".

Your really sad attempt at making Melee sound balanced compared to the rest of the series really isn't working out as well as you think it is, I'm just saying.

Not as sad as your attempt to put words into my mouth.

I never said Melee was balanced, Melee isn't balanced, but it's better then Brawl. All I did was call out someone who said the opposite and backed his argument up with "Meta Knight notwithstanding" which is, to be blunt, stupid.

Said calling out came in the form of me posting a similar and SARCASTIC comment about Melee being perfectly balanced if you simply forget about every imbalance in the game. (In a similar vein as the comment I responded to though at this point I'm starting to think it might take a well-trained eye to spot this similarity.)

To sum up:
I was being sarcastic.

 

[1MachGO]

I know for a fact that I can find people who think Fox should be banned, now that they know banning characters is a thing that happens. And I haven't heard people yell "Ban Meta Knight" in a long time.

You literally cannot compare Fox and MK lol.

With no exaggeration, Evo 2k13 may be the first time a Fox player has taken 1st place at a national; a feat that was performed by, arguably, the most talented member in the competitive ssbm scene. It is actually debatable that this could be replicated by someone else.

Also, while both characters share controversy, the nature of their controversy is completely different. With MK, there is a significant consensus that he is the best character in the game. In Melee, there is actually debate regarding Fox's tier placement. There is merit that Fox doesn't belong at the top and that Falco should be there.

And I am sure you could find someone on the Melee forums who believes Fox should be banned, but you couldn't convince anyone that a Fox-ban would garner enough popularity to be even worth considering; let alone actually succeeding. (Maybe a sheik ban though lol)

Furthermore, to address the "No items. Fox only. Final Destination" statement, this is really just an inside joke regarding people who have a misconception of "competitive-tryhards" . Believe it or not, prior to people realizing Fox's potential, the joke used to be "No items. Sheik only. Final Destination."

 

[mimgrim]

Good sir, if that was the case, then why are tournaments "No items. Fox only. Final Destination."

Seriously though, if Fox isn't dominant, then why have a rule for Fox only at tournaments? Seems suspicious if you ask me...

I think you are speaking out of your a** here. There is no rule for Fox only at tournaments, and I've done some looking into it to. Absolutely no rule that is for Fox only. So unless you can provide proof that there are rules that are for Fox only at tournaments you are just talking out of your a**. While comparatively I could find a butt load of tournaments with rules for MK only.

I know for a fact that I can find people who think Fox should be banned, now that they know banning characters is a thing that happens. And I haven't heard people yell "Ban Meta Knight" in a long time.

"I know for a fact that I can find people who think MK should be banned as he has been banned in the past, And I haven't heard people yell ban Fox at all" see what I did there? there is no valid complaint there. And any way there will always be people that believe the character put at the top of the tier list that should be banned. But again there is a huge difference between MK and Fox. MK has been winning big scales tournaments since the beginning of Brawl where as Fox has only started winning Nationals recently in the history of Melee. Badum tsk.

 

[majora_787]

You literally cannot compare Fox and MK lol.

With no exaggeration, Evo 2k13 may be the first time a Fox player has taken 1st place at a national; a feat that was performed by, arguably, the most talented member in the competitive ssbm scene. It is actually debatable that this could be replicated by someone else.

Also, while both characters share controversy, the nature of their controversy is completely different. With MK, there is a significant consensus that he is the best character in the game. In Melee, there is actually debate regarding Fox's tier placement. There is merit that Fox doesn't belong at the top and that Falco should be there.

And I am sure you could find someone on the Melee forums who believes Fox should be banned, but you couldn't convince anyone that a Fox-ban would garner enough popularity to be even worth considering; let alone actually succeeding. (Maybe a sheik ban though lol)

Furthermore, to address the "No items. Fox only. Final Destination" statement, this is really just an inside joke regarding people who have a misconception of "competitive-tryhards" . Believe it or not, prior to people realizing Fox's potential, the joke used to be "No items. Sheik only. Final Destination."

The thing is, Melee has more than one character who is abnormally good over the rest of the roster. With Brawl, it is largely just Meta Knight. They can be compared, it's just not a perfect comparison because Brawl doesn't have as many abnormally good outliers as Melee does.

 

[SmashChu]

I'm sorry but the comparison between Fox from Melee and MK from Brawl is not as close as you imply it is. The only reason Fox is considered the best character in Melee is because in theory a 100% perfect Fox is unbeatable, but guess what, a imperfect creature will never be able to play a perfect Fox. Hell did you know that in Melee Fox hasn't even won a national until recently? To add on to that Fox actually has a few bad match-ups and even match-ups unlike MK. MK doesn't need to have a perfect level of play, has won nationals since the beginning of Brawl, and doesn't have a single bad match-up and supposedly only a single even match-up, which many many many people will argue is in fact not a even match-up. Sure Melee isn't perfectly balance and has it's share of unbalances but it still has better balance then Brawl and is no where near Brawl's balance as you seem to imply it is. e_e

As an aside, the Meta-Knight being broken is vastly overstated. If you look at tournament results for 2012, you can see that Marth and Diddy have won just as many tournaments as Meta-Knight, and Snake has won more. Keep in mind that Meta-Knight is also a very popular character and this list does not take into account how many times a character is used. Only where they place. We can see this in the Apex 2013 results. There are a lot of Meta-Knights in the top 8, but there are also a lot of Meta-Knights in general. 65th was a 4 way tie between 4 Meta-Knights.

 

[Jumpman84]

I think you are speaking out of your a** here. There is no rule for Fox only at tournaments, and I've done some looking into it to. Absolutely no rule that is for Fox only. So unless you can provide proof that there are rules that are for Fox only at tournaments you are just talking out of your a**. While comparatively I could find a butt load of tournaments with rules for MK only.

I was clearly speaking in jest, as evidenced by the trollface I put at the end. You should get out more.

If you think that there are no Fox-only tournaments, then I'll have to take your word on it, seeing as I have never been to a tournament. But why would they have that joke if there wasn't some truth in it?

 

[mimgrim]

I was clearly speaking in jest, as evidenced by the trollface I put at the end. You should get out more.

If you think that there are no Fox-only tournaments, then I'll have to take your word on it, seeing as I have never been to a tournament. But why would they have that joke if there wasn't some truth in it?

Good sir, if that was the case, then why are tournaments "No items. Fox only. Final Destination."

Seriously though, if Fox isn't dominant, then why have a rule for Fox only at tournaments? Seems suspicious if you ask me...

I see the troll face on the first sentence. Second sentence lacks it and has you saying "seriously though", which was the sentence I was replying to. The way you typed that second sentence I interpreted as you saying that tournaments in Melee have specific rules just for Fox because he is dominant which isn't true while reversely it is true for MK. If it was all in joke however then ignore what I said, but the second sentence wasn't worded quite good to be interpreted as a joke.

The thing is, Melee has more than one character who is abnormally good over the rest of the roster. With Brawl, it is largely just Meta Knight. They can be compared, it's just not a perfect comparison because Brawl doesn't have as many abnormally good outliers as Melee does.

Brawl also has that problem, but MK is abnormally good against the other character that are abnormally good against the rest of the cast. There is a significant gap between top tier and high tier and high tier and upper mid tier. The thing is in Melee top tier characters actually have bad match-up against certain low tier and mid tier characters.

As an aside, the Meta-Knight being broken is vastly overstated. If you look at tournament results for 2012, you can see that Marth and Diddy have won just as many tournaments as Meta-Knight, and Snake has won more. Keep in mind that Meta-Knight is also a very popular character and this list does not take into account how many times a character is used. Only where they place. We can see this in the Apex 2013 results. There are a lot of Meta-Knights in the top 8, but there are also a lot of Meta-Knights in general. 65th was a 4 way tie between 4 Meta-Knights.

First I ask you to go back further and see where MK has stood then and compare it to now, not that different. There is a reason MK is so popular, and that because it is known and agreed upon that MK is by far the most powerful character in Brawl and doesn't have a single bad match-up. Snake may have won more but MK still gets a spot in the top more. But trying to compare Fox from Melee and MK from Brawl is absolutly ridiculous just in the simple fact that Fox hasn't won a national until recently. It is in no way a good comparison.

 

[1MachGO]

The thing is, Melee has more than one character who is abnormally good over the rest of the roster. With Brawl, it is largely just Meta Knight. They can be compared, it's just not a perfect comparison because Brawl doesn't have as many abnormally good outliers as Melee does.

What exactly are you trying to argue here? It seems you have gone from "MK and Fox are equivalents" to "MK and Melee outliers(?) are equivalents"... what is the basis of this new argument? If Fox, the supposed "best character" in Melee, cannot be compared to MK in terms of game dominance, then anyone equivalent to Fox also wouldn't fulfill this comparison. The best characters in Melee are probably more comparable to Brawl A tiers in terms of superiority over the rest of the cast; a much smaller gap than the one MK has.

TBH, you just seem stuck on the idea that all three games are equally unbalanced. This is simply not the case. While all three games have their fair share of problems, each successive game has been less balanced than the last in terms of character viability. All we can hope is that relative gap will shrink again next game.

 

[Jumpman84]

I see the troll face on the first sentence. Second sentence lacks it and has you saying "seriously though", which was the sentence I was replying to. The way you typed that second sentence I interpreted as you saying that tournaments in Melee have specific rules just for Fox because he is dominant which isn't true while reversely it is true for MK. If it was all in joke however then ignore what I said, but the second sentence wasn't worded quite good to be interpreted as a joke.

Ah, you are correct. My apologies for the misunderstanding. I probably should have phrased the second part better.

I have not gone to any major tournaments (I'm not a good enough player), so my understanding was that the meme was how Melee tournaments actually went and hence why they are poked fun at. It didn't seem that farfetched since they also remove items, stages, and Meta Knight.

 

[mimgrim]

Ah, you are correct. My apologies for the misunderstanding. I probably should have phrased the second part better.

I have not gone to any major tournaments (I'm not a good enough player), so my understanding was that the meme was how Melee tournaments actually went and hence why they are poked fun at. It didn't seem that farfetched since they also remove items, stages, and Meta Knight.

They don't remove MK. But they do have specific rules just for MK. Like the ledge grab limit. Never take a meme as how something actually went as like with your post it is a joke and is hardly ever true.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Think about this guys, during the big days of debate, people said MK needed to be as broken as Akuma to be banned.

Why didn't people just put a limit on Akuma's fireballs so he could still be beaten? Why do we impose scrooging and ledge grab limits and ban tons of stages just to "keep MK in check"? Think about it.

Also:

As an aside, the Meta-Knight being broken is vastly overstated. If you look at tournament results for 2012, you can see that Marth and Diddy have won just as many tournaments as Meta-Knight, and Snake has won more. Keep in mind that Meta-Knight is also a very popular character and this list does not take into account how many times a character is used. Only where they place. We can see this in the Apex 2013 results. There are a lot of Meta-Knights in the top 8, but there are also a lot of Meta-Knights in general. 65th was a 4 way tie between 4 Meta-Knights.

From the wiki:

Later, data compiled by John12346 showed that Meta Knight had won over 50% of total tournament earnings in tournaments that had more than thirty entrants [2]. Meta Knight in total won $42,394.32 in 2011 U.S. tournaments when money is split in character usage (and $59,490.07 when not split), while the next most successful character,Snake, had only won $12,125.33 when split (and $20,860.29 with no split)

Can't you see why people thought he was a problem? In ways he still is on how centralized the game is around him.

Also, anyone heard about that MK AND IC banned tournament that's supposed to be happening? The talk of what should be done with MK is still on, just quieter now.

 

[Mastafaxa]

I don't know if its fair to get down on Brawl or Melee for any lack of balance they might have. In the end these are not games that are envisioned to be played like the majority of people on this cite play them, which is to say competitively. The majority of people that play the game are not going to learn advanced techniques and go in depth on anything in the game, and those people make up the biggest market for the game. It might not seem fair but those who care the most about the next installment in the series are not the main demographic that development will inevitably cater to.

I personally wonder about how subversive the developers are when testing it. I imagine that if they come across something that could be developed into an AT they would remove it, but both brawl and melee are defined by ATs on the competitive level. Theres nothing wrong with that from where we sit, but from a development point of view thats just the kind of over site that should not happen.