Sakurai Views Brawl as a Party Game

[Rhubarbo]

As quoted from an interveiw with Sakurai in Nintendo Power, "I view Smash as a party game...". Do I need to write anymore? What we should derive from this is that Brawl was not made to be played the way we played Melee, competitively. Most of the game play development time in Brawl was spent removing features. I've said this before, but no one paid any attention.

 

[CY]

this topic hasn't been discussed ever. nope, not once.

 

[I_R_Hungry]

Nobody cares. Sakurai probably would have said the same exact thing about Melee, and even if he didn't, it doesn't matter.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

Didn't he say that he didn't want ANY of the smash games to be competitive?

 

[Morrigan]

I knew this since Brawl was first announced

Silly Sakurai, go make some Kirby games (although Smash Bros is a Kirby game clone).

 

[Prax]

I think we all knew this after tripping and final smashes were introduced. Good thing this is Sakurai's last Smash Bros. game. (I think)

 

[metaXzero]

Didn't Gimpy make a thread like this with the whole interview? Oh well inb4 lock possibly.

 

[Morrigan]

I think we all knew this after tripping and final smashes were introduced. Good thing this is Sakurai's last Smash Bros. game. (I think)

He'll probably "meet in a hotel room" with Iwata again (that's what happened, really) and end up making Smash 'til it's dead!!1

 

[Prax]

He'll probably "meet in a hotel room" with Iwata again (that's what happened, really) and end up making Smash 'til it's dead!!1

........F***

 

[Sun-Wukong]

Didn't he say that he didn't want ANY of the smash games to be competitive?

Yes, and Melee wasn't "supposed" to be. However, over time the smash community found glitches and hidden techniques. Case in point, the wave dash. It's technically a glitch since it wasn't purposely put in, but as Sakurai said in the same interview with Nintendo Power, they noticed it during development. Sakurai didn't see it as a problem at first but saw it as a problem later and removed it in Brawl. Wave dashing isn't the only instance of this, it's just a good example. So none of them were supposed to be competitive, but Brawl is were Sakurai finally succeeded.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Yes, but he was never aware of the progress of the community until after Melee's rise to popularity. THerefore, he attempted to dumb down Brawl as much as possible.

 

[Ratatat]

its been 28 minutes..
why haven't they closed this thread yet?

 

[Sun-Wukong]

Yes, but he was never aware of the progress of the community until after Melee's rise to popularity. THerefore, he attempted to dumb down Brawl as much as possible.

Yeah, my point exactly.

 

[Sean²]

I believe there will be more Smash titles. Nintendo likes money far too much to kill a successful series. I just don't think Sakurai will take part in the production.

its been 28 minutes..
why haven't they closed this thread yet?

Because they hate you and everything you stand for.

 

[Demon Kirby]

I thought this as the most blatantly obvious thing ever?

 

[Prax]

It is

10char

 

[metaXzero]

Did someone just say wavesashing was a glitch? OMFG!! Glitches are programming errors. Wavedashing was intentionally put in their since

1.) the games physics engine was set so that any extra air momentum (like from an air dodge) would be transfered to the ground as a slide.

2). Something had to happen when you air-dodge into the ground to prevent real glitches.

The only thing unintended was wavedashing becoming a heavily used (and slightly overrated) advanced technique.

EDIT: I'm no longer a child. 100 post! YAY!!

 

[Rhubarbo]

Yeah, wavedashing was put there on purpose, but became deadly when coupled with the short hop.

 

[orintemple]

Did someone just say wavesashing was a glitch? OMFG!! Glitches are programming errors. Wavedashing was intentionally put in their since

1.) the games physics engine was set so that any extra air momentum (like from an air dodge) would be transfered to the ground as a slide.

2). Something had to happen when you air-dodge into the ground to prevent real glitches.

The only thing unintended was wavedashing becoming a heavily used (and slightly overrated) advanced technique.

EDIT: I'm no longer a child. 100 post! YAY!!

More like wavedashing isn't a glitch since Sakurai SAID SO IN AN INTERVIEW.

 

[metaXzero]

^That too. But I likes to explain stuff.

.............This thread is still open *facepalm*

 

[firedragon_jing]

My question is, if the game was so popular as a competetive fighter, why did Sakurai try to dumb it back down for Brawl? It makes no sense other than him hating his core fans and trying to get more casuals to play, typical Nintendo move >.>

 

[orintemple]

My question is, if the game was so popular as a competetive fighter, why did Sakurai try to dumb it back down for Brawl? It makes no sense other than him hating his core fans and trying to get more casuals to play, typical Nintendo move >.>

Hardcore fans are few, casual fans are many. Many = money.

'nuff said.

 

[Taymond]

Well for starters... *clears throat* "Didn't Sakurai in that one interview say 'I guarantee Megaman will be in Brawl and also as a side note, I love wavedashing' a year ago? *provides no reference*" Saying something is great, but linking to a source is better.

Secondly, Sun-Wukong, don't misuse the definition of the word glitch. "Glitch" indicates that a fault in the game engine is responsible for something. That is not the case with wavedashing. The mechanic that allows for wavedashiing had to be specifically implemented by the development team. It reacts exactly how it is intended to. The developers considered what to do when a player air dodged into the ground. They had two options: do nothing, so that airdodging into the ground would be just like doing it into a wall, you'd just kinda slide a small amount in your air-dodge animation, and then awkwardly fall out of it and immediately land, or they could come up with a specific way for the game to handle this. They opted to do the second, and decided to put you straight into a standing position, without losing momentum.

There was no "accident" that created wavedashing. That mechanic was as intended as jumping. It was intentionally and specifically programmed. The use of this mechanic, however, was unforeseen. They didn't, at the time, imagine it would be used the way we used it.

This was, at worst, a programming oversight, but not a glitch. Glitch implies something entirely different. How Jigglypuff stays large if she uses her FS on Eldin when the Bridge is rebuilding? That's a glitch. The game doesn't know how to correctly handle the circumstances. The game knows exactly how to handle air dodging into the ground. It's no fault of the game engine.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Well for starters... *clears throat* "Didn't Sakurai in that one interview say 'I guarantee Megaman will be in Brawl and also as a side note, I love wavedashing' a year ago? *provides no reference*" Saying something is great, but linking to a source is better.

Secondly, Sun-Wukong, don't misuse the definition of the word glitch. "Glitch" indicates that a fault in the game engine is responsible for something. That is not the case with wavedashing. The mechanic that allows for wavedashiing had to be specifically implemented by the development team. It reacts exactly how it is intended to. The developers considered what to do when a player air dodged into the ground. They had two options: do nothing, so that airdodging into the ground would be just like doing it into a wall, you'd just kinda slide a small amount in your air-dodge animation, and then awkwardly fall out of it and immediately land, or they could come up with a specific way for the game to handle this. They opted to do the second, and decided to put you straight into a standing position, without losing momentum.

There was no "accident" that created wavedashing. That mechanic was as intended as jumping. It was intentionally and specifically programmed. The use of this mechanic, however, was unforeseen. They didn't, at the time, imagine it would be used the way we used it.

This was, at worst, a programming oversight, but not a glitch. Glitch implies something entirely different. How Jigglypuff stays large if she uses her FS on Eldin when the Bridge is rebuilding? That's a glitch. The game doesn't know how to correctly handle the circumstances. The game knows exactly how to handle air dodging into the ground. It's no fault of the game engine.

Sadly, it's posts like this that idiots will never understand.

 

[firedragon_jing]

Hardcore fans are few, casual fans are many. Many = money.

'nuff said.

Yeah, but how many casuals actually get into the game, Nintendo needs some solid titles to attract back customers from Microsoft and Sony

 

[The Drizzle]

Yeah, but how many casuals actually get into the game, Nintendo needs some solid titles to attract back customers from Microsoft and Sony

Is that a joke?

Nintendo is DESTROYING them in sales and making far more cash off their system right now. Brawl is a good selling title, and I'll give you that, they needed more of those, because everyone needs more of those, but Melee sold great too, AND ended up being competitive.

Either way, its stupid. Casuals still bought and played Melee, which is why it was one of the best selling games on the Cube. Brawl could have EASILY been competitive and appealed to casuals, because they have the one player mode and friends to play with still. Competitive environments don't destroy a game. Infact, it makes the games lifespan much longer.

 

[orintemple]

Yeah, but how many casuals actually get into the game, Nintendo needs some solid titles to attract back customers from Microsoft and Sony

Lol it doesn't matter if they are into the game as long as they bought it. Once they bought it Nintendo gets paid, done deal.

Also, to the above poster, Brawl is going to end up WAYYYY outselling Melee. Brawl is dumbed down making it easier for people to play. Those who would have wanted to be in the competitive scene but didn't try because of the demanding technical skills can now play Brawl in the competitive scene without worrying that they can't move fast enough, which may be a selling point for some people.

I don't agree with it, its just how business runs. Brawl marketing did a great job appealing to every audience, no matter how small they may be. And don't tell me they didnt do well for the competitive Melee players, because we all bought it, wether we like it or not is of no concern to a businessman.

 

[firedragon_jing]

It doesn't matter if Nintendo is winning the console way, they are starting to lose the software war. Sure the casuals are buying up the system like hotcakes, but as far as software goes on the Wii sales are lacking, but because of the number of people buying the systems it doesn't show well all the time.

By getting more good games, it attracts the more advanced gaming groups that will end up buying the game and everything that goes with it, including DLC. And just because it is competitive doesn't mean it a bad thing, its a great thing. Casuals will probably buy it no matter what because people say it's good and they probably don't know all the details of what they are buying anyways. And one of two things can happen, they don't like the game and they stop playing or resell it which isn't a problem seeing they already gave Nintendo the cash and they probably weren't going to play for long anyways, or they really get competitive and move towards a more core player who will eventually buy more games.

It's the core players though that will play in great depths with the game, they are the ones that will recommend it to the clueless casuals, and will drive up the sells. If you lose them, the game will fall out within a year or two, especially with no DLC to breath new life into it.

 

[orintemple]

That is true that recommendation will get some buyers but that will not be the bulk. Most people who buy from recomendation will have heard of the game from other casuals anyway, not competitive players. Most competitive players would know others gamers who already have the game.

Also, Smash has nothing to do with other games. Just because someone buys Smash and loves it doesn't mean they will buy a different Wii game that isn't Smash. On the other hand a person who doesn't like Brawl is still as likely as anyone to buy other games not related to Brawl.

 

[metaXzero]

Sakurai didn't dumb the game down to make more money (no matter how you look at it, casuals were going to buy the game). He just wanted Brawl to not be Melee. He was a conceited prick only wanting to satisfy his own wants.

 

[Taymond]

I agree with both sides of this little tangent. Nintendo is doing outrageously well in sales, but they will eventually taper and start to lose ground, and probably will quite soon. After Mario Kart Wii, they don't really have any huge titles in the announced future, and it seems like they're going to have a semi-large span where no huge seller is released. Also, because of their hardware limitations, the type of game the Wii is capable of playing will start to quickly pale in comparison to the 360 and PS2. Nintendo is great at innovation, but they're trying to keep up with what is plainly a lesser system, and they don't really have any great platformers that would expect a new title soon. They're running off steam from half a dozen sports games, Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, Brawl, and Mario Kart Wii.

There won't be another Mario or Zelda title for a while. What are they going to release in the summer? Another sport game? Mario and Sonic at the Supermarket? Mario Party 9?

Not to mention the questionable plan of releasing Mario Kart Wii in competition with GTA4.

They're doing well right now, and they're still a giant, but they had better have some big ideas in the making or they might run out of fuel pretty soon here.

 

[aids514]

This thread is pointless. Fail.

 

[orintemple]

I feel that the Wii will continue to sell well just because it is so unique. The game list isn't as extravagant as XBOX 360's but it is a hell of a lot better than PS3's. Unless the PS3 gets its act together it isn't going to get anywhere. The 360 will be the top in the end just because of its incredible online play system, great games list, and the overall quality of it, but the Wii(which I believe has actually outsold 360 by this point) is a beast because it has some big name titles and most of all it appeals heavily to casual gamers and gamers who are much older AND much younger than the average gamer(a market barely touch by other developers). It is a VERY easy to play and interesting to play console, which is good for people in their later years and children of younger ages.

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

 

[mkmelee]

I think Nintendo's doing alright at the moment, but there's a definite need of further 3rd party support. If they don't get enough of it soon (I mean quality support of course) then sales will begin to deflate.

 

[XERAMPELINAE]

I just have to say that people are extremely biased on Sakurai's words. He's been saying that since the Melee days, so it's no surprise that he is saying it again. Smash Bros. is his concept of a party game. And is it not? Sure brings tons of people together.
And the reason I said that people are totally biased on those ambiguous words of Sakurai was because people use that as evidence to conclude that Brawl is just another Mario Party 10.
Super Smash Brothers has always been intended and has always been a party game. As fruity as it sounds, get over it. *leaves*

 

[R i p]

1) I think a wavedash could be considered an exploit rather than a glitch.

2) Sakurai doesn't know everything. There are failures in his line of thinking that can be debated. You can debate that he failed make a Brawl a funner game for casual mindset(because it's impossible deep down to do this), and you can debate that it's a stupid unachievable goal. Not that they ever will be a debate as he will probably never have to confront this.

3) ****ty thread.

 

[SlickSlicer]

this topic hasn't been discussed ever. nope, not once.

Yeah seriously, this board needs more discussions on why melee is a superior game to brawl, why brawl sucks and why brawl is not meant to be competitive.

Because clearly, Brawl discussion boards are the best place to BAAAAAAAWWWW! at why Brawl sucks because it's not exactly the same as melee (read: broken) but with new characters and stages.

 

[metaXzero]

What are the mods doing? This is on its third page now.

 

[A New England Winter]

Just because Sakurai views Brawl as a party game doesn't mean anything. I view Sherbert as a delicious dairy treat, but that doesn't make me right.

Who cares anyways? It's not like Sakurai's trying to convert all of the Nintendo players of the world into mindless party game enthusiasts who will eventually rise up and form a massive zombie army that enslaves the earth and forces the global populace to play Mario Party all day and night with no rest. Because that's just silly.