Sakurai talks about Clones in Famitsu column

[Saltwater Gem]

Those don't involve extremely drastic changes to physical appearance.

 

[GunGunW]

Those don't involve extremely drastic changes to physical appearance.

Roy and Morton are much smaller in Smash 4 than they actually are so they can be alternates for Bowser Jr. (Yeah, I don't like it either).

 

[PeterJude]

Is Ness not Ness because he doesn't use the attacks he uses in EarthBound? Or is R.O.B. not R.O.B. because he shoots lasers from his eyes?

Those are drastic alterations to their very being. If they suddenly slapped a tail on Ness, it would be pretty bizarre.

 

[L9999]

Lucina deserved her own moveset, she was thought to fight by Chrom so giving her a mix between Marth and Ike would've been enough. (Aether, Sakurai!)

I wouldn't mind Dark Pit if he had at least more variations similar to KI:U weapons and all that stuff.

Then there's Dr. Mario... I really can't stand him because there's already a lot of Mario **** already! «Super Mario and other Smashers Bros» for Wii U 2 anyone? Geez...

Finally someone who understands me. Mario is a plague. All the people that say Sakubias Kid Icarus stop because Mario is the real threat here. I would be less pissed with Lucina if they at the very least the devs gave her the Shield Breaker from Melee and gave her Assault Dash as a Side Special, I mean, why not? I love plsying as Lucina but jeez, she doesn't need to be and 100% cloned moveset.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're making tons of weird assumptions here. You can't stick up for people *possibly* liking Dark Pit's personality (which doesn't even exist in Smash) and then say 'not everybody plays Metroid' when every Prime game sold more than Uprising as grounds for Dark Pit being more well-received. And you also just assume that people would see 'Metroid Prime' and get angry at another Samus without any reason. But the fact is you would be appealing to more fanbases so less people would be complaining.

If you honestly think Dark Pit is not received well as of Uprising, you haven't done any research. And yes, he has a different personality. You ever listen to any of his taunts or Victory screens? Like, at all?

You are not really appealing to more fanbases by throwing in a 3rd Samus. More fanbases are sick of clones(justified as they may be of being in), and one with the same name doesn't help. And she's quite clearly named Dark Samus here. What makes you so sure this would change? And even if they call her Metroid Prime, they still see another Samus. That's a big issue Dark Pit has gotten lately, how little he looks uniquely from Pit. They have an armband and a color change. That's it.

I stand that she would absolutely not go over well. The clone hatred proves that. Even 2 Marios/Links gets a lot of hate. Dark Pit alone gets a lot of hate. Zero Suit Samus even gets hate because it's just another Samus. No matter the moveset differences. You are severely underestimating the hatred characters with the same name or body gets. And it's a lot.

 

[Gawain]

Missing the point. Alph was already an alt. Dark Samus already had the model and several graphics and other materials available in game. Dixie would have been a very simple Diddy alt. He chose which alts to make and he chose which of those to make into clones. He could have used the same resources to do the clone job on Alph or Dark Samus or other low-hanging fruit and appeal to Metroid fans or Pikmin fans or other series who got jack squat, but he chose to use them on pill-throwing Mario and Emo Pit, two series who have already completely saturated the game with their material.

And yet you fail to understand that there is a business aspect to all of this. Dark Pit is tremendously popular in Japan. Including him was a no brainer, he tops character popularity polls all the time there. Dark Samus has very little appeal, and the Metroid fanbase has dwindled a lot lately, despite the fact that Nintendo has gone on record saying they're planning a dual release in the future. Pikmin getting Alph as an alt is already plenty for a series with its exposure level, so I'm not really seeing your ponit at all. Sakurai chooses what the majority of fans want because that's what's gonna push the most copies.

 

[Frostwraith]

The thing with Lucina and Dark Pit is that their series hold a lot of popularity in Japan, unlike the West, where they're seen as niche games. Kid Icarus: Uprising was big in Japan, Fire Emblem always had its share of popularity and the SRPG genre it pioneered in the early 90's is still one of Japan's favorites.

Lucina and Dark Pit ranked high in popularity polls there. Even Marth and Ike, from older Fire Emblem games, still hold significant popularity there. Dark Pit is up there with fellow Kid Icarus characters Pit and Palutena on the polls and Lucina is the most popular female character of Fire Emblem: Awakening.

The Japanese have different tastes when it comes to characters and games. Justifiably so, given they belong to a different culture. There are things that are popular there that we Westerners have no idea they exist and vice versa.

And it shouldn't be surprising that the game caters to the Japanese first and the West second. This is a Japanese game, so it's understandable they will prioritize the Japanese fans.

 

[GunGunW]

The thing with Lucina and Dark Pit is that their series hold a lot of popularity in Japan, unlike the West, where they're seen as niche games. Kid Icarus: Uprising was big in Japan, Fire Emblem always had its share of popularity and the SRPG genre it pioneered in the early 90's is still one of Japan's favorites.

Lucina and Dark Pit ranked high in popularity polls there. Even Marth and Ike, from older Fire Emblem games, still hold significant popularity there. Dark Pit is up there with fellow Kid Icarus characters Pit and Palutena on the polls and Lucina is the most popular female character of Fire Emblem: Awakening.

The Japanese have different tastes when it comes to characters and games. Justifiably so, given they belong to a different culture. There are things that are popular there that we Westerners have no idea they exist and vice versa.

And it shouldn't be surprising that the game caters to the Japanese first and the West second. This is a Japanese game, so it's understandable they will prioritize the Japanese fans.

Personally, I disagree with that they prioritize Japanese fans over western fans. They do a lot for both fanbases, and even though there are more characters this time around that are more popular in Japan than the west, there aren't any that are only in games that were only released in Japan; every playable character in the game has had a title outside Smash released overseas, unlike the previous two installments. They also added Little Mac and Duck Hunt Dog which are primarily more popular in the west than in the east (if I'm not mistaken) and they also pandered to Mario the most which is a series that is popular in both the west and east, and is a staple in both cultures (and I'm almost inclined to say it's probably more popular outside Japan than within). Plus, the Wii U version will be released in the west before Japan as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Personally, I disagree with that they prioritize Japanese fans over western fans. They do a lot for both fanbases, and even though there are more characters this time around that are more popular in Japan than the west, there aren't any that are only in games that were only released in Japan; every playable character in the game has had a title outside Smash released overseas, unlike the previous two installments. They also added Little Mac and Duck Hunt Dog which are primarily more popular in the west than in the east (if I'm not mistaken) and they also pandered to Mario the most which is a series that is popular in both the west and east, and is a staple in both cultures (and I'm almost inclined to say it's probably more popular outside Japan than within). Plus, the Wii U version will be released in the west before Japan as well.

Oh, it's pretty clear Japan gets the brunt of the love. Most character additions are clearly from Japan. The entire Fire Emblem series, Mother is more popular there(and Mother 3 as well got a character and we still didn't get the game), Palutena, Dark Pit, Jigglypuff, the more cute Toon Link over his more realistic looking Young Link counterpart... Duck Hunt, Little Mac, and Sonic were the more Western additions. Smash 64 was not going to be released overseas at first, keep in mind. That got changed. Also, Captain Falcon is pretty much a Japanese Sentai Superhero style character. Many of his moves and style can be seen from Kamen Rider.

Consoles are not popular in Japan. They are far more in the US. That's a good reason to give it to us first. If not the best reason. UK got screwed over, though.

 

[Nekoo]

Duck Hunt, Little Mac, and Sonic were the more Western additions. Smash 64 was not going to be

Sonic was a world wide additions i think , Duck Hunt was a retro remplacement of the IC ...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sonic was a world wide additions i think , Duck Hunt was a retro remplacement of the IC ...

I highly doubt Duck Hunt was some replacement. Ice Climbers were cut very late. They were both going to be in. Nobody got replaced that we ever knew of. All were planned early except the clones.

I thought Sonic got more Western love, but eh.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

If you honestly think Dark Pit is not received well as of Uprising, you haven't done any research. And yes, he has a different personality. You ever listen to any of his taunts or Victory screens? Like, at all?

You are not really appealing to more fanbases by throwing in a 3rd Samus. More fanbases are sick of clones(justified as they may be of being in), and one with the same name doesn't help. And she's quite clearly named Dark Samus here. What makes you so sure this would change? And even if they call her Metroid Prime, they still see another Samus. That's a big issue Dark Pit has gotten lately, how little he looks uniquely from Pit. They have an armband and a color change. That's it.

I stand that she would absolutely not go over well. The clone hatred proves that. Even 2 Marios/Links gets a lot of hate. Dark Pit alone gets a lot of hate. Zero Suit Samus even gets hate because it's just another Samus. No matter the moveset differences. You are severely underestimating the hatred characters with the same name or body gets. And it's a lot.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be complaints. People are going to complain regardless. But do you really think a clone that appeals to a wider fanbase for a series that has gotten completely short-changed is going to cause more complaints than a clone for a less popular series that is already shoved down our throats to exhaustion? Because if a whole other fanbase is satisfied or at least partially satisfied, it stands to reason that the complaints will go down.

And it shouldn't be surprising that the game caters to the Japanese first and the West second. This is a Japanese game, so it's understandable they will prioritize the Japanese fans.

I completely disagree. The West more than tripled Japanese sales of Brawl. It makes no sense to cater to this much smaller market. The fact is, the Japanese are culturally pretty xenophobic and have a superiority complex and think more highly of themselves than other cultures.

 

[GunGunW]

Oh, it's pretty clear Japan gets the brunt of the love. Most character additions are clearly from Japan. The entire Fire Emblem series, Mother is more popular there(and Mother 3 as well got a character and we still didn't get the game), Palutena, Dark Pit, Jigglypuff, the more cute Toon Link over his more realistic looking Young Link counterpart... Duck Hunt, Little Mac, and Sonic were the more Western additions. Smash 64 was not going to be released overseas at first, keep in mind. That got changed. Also, Captain Falcon is pretty much a Japanese Sentai Superhero style character. Many of his moves and style can be seen from Kamen Rider.

Consoles are not popular in Japan. They are far more in the US. That's a good reason to give it to us first. If not the best reason. UK got screwed over, though.

Captain Falcon is unique because he looks like a sentai dude but at the same time he also looks like something out of DC Comics. That's what I like about him so much.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Captain Falcon is unique because he looks like a sentai dude but at the same time he also looks like something out of DC Comics. That's what I like about him so much.

Even so, he's clearly more Japanese style with his moves. I don't honestly see anything DC based upon his design. He totally looks like a Kamen Rider without the direct armor to me. But eh.

Either way, he was inspired by Japanese superheroes regardless. I can't remember where it was said, but didn't Sakurai outright state that's how he chose his moveset?

 

[Terotrous]

Going off with Dark Pit for a second [since it sounds like people are complaining about him the loudest] there's a legitimate reason why he looks exactly like Pit, just painted black. He has his own creation story [which I don't really want to spoil here], his own completely fleshed out personality, and he's a very important character to the plot of KI:U, even if he looks just like Pit with a dark overlay. The same thing can be said for Lucina. They both have perfectly valid reason for being their own character despite them being 90% similar to their original counterpart [that being Pit and Marth]. Honestly if you don't know who the character is, why they are that way, and what they have to do with the plot of their game then you have no right trying to give reasons why they "don't belong". [Again, not pointing fingers, its just a thing i've been seeing everywhere].

The issue isn't the character choice, it's the fact that their moveset is 95% identical to another character. Like I said earlier, I'd be fine with Dark Pit if he had totally different specials and maybe a few different normals from Pit, which should have been easy since KIU has approximately a billion different weapons. The problem is the laziness, not the character. Dark Pit in this game doesn't even feel authentic to KIU.

 

[GunGunW]

Even so, he's clearly more Japanese style with his moves. I don't honestly see anything DC based upon his design. He totally looks like a Kamen Rider without the direct armor to me. But eh.

Either way, he was inspired by Japanese superheroes regardless. I can't remember where it was said, but didn't Sakurai outright state that's how he chose his moveset?

I know he's not really a DC hero, but he does look a lot like Judge Dredd to me

 

[Frostwraith]

The issue isn't the character choice, it's the fact that their moveset is 95% identical to another character. Like I said earlier, I'd be fine with Dark Pit if he had totally different specials and maybe a few different normals from Pit, which should have been easy since KIU has approximately a billion different weapons. The problem is the laziness, not the character. Dark Pit in this game doesn't even feel authentic to KIU.

It's not laziness when they were running out of development time. There just wasn't enough time for many changes.

Mind that the three clones were implemented as alts first. Dark Pit was a Pit alt before he got his own slot.

Also, in KIU, the weapon he uses the most is the Silver Bow, which is also his primary weapon in Smash (hence why he's a clone). He feels as authentic to KIU as much as Pit does.

(Also, I'm sick of discussing this clone trio. It's beating a dead horse at this point.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know he's not really a DC hero, but he does look a lot like Judge Dredd to me

He looks like a racer to me. But makes sense.

 

[Crocovile]

Regarding on wether Dixie could work as an alt. or not. I'm asking you guys who're skeptical towards it, where do you know Dixie Kong the character from? Because back in DKC2 & 3, what is it that she uses to pick up barrels, hang from hooks and glide through the air, you know the answer?

Her ponytail.

I must admit that I too was somewhat skeptical of her at first, but seeing that mod @ Saltwater Gem provided a link to has convinced me otherwise. I think it looks great, and IMO there's no reason she couldn't have been made an alt/clone.

I think most of my problems with the clones this time around are how they're too similar to their original counterparts. Dark Pit is simply a recolour (I know he's a separate character in KI:U, but I don't really care for him there either. Plus, the main reason he's so popular is that he's a "dark and edgy rival character", the Japanese love that character-archetype, It's why people like Sasuke from Naruto are so popular), Dr. Mario is the same person as Mario, he just lost the hat, got a coat, doctor light, stethoscope. And Lucina, while more distinct both visually and as a character, is just Marth without his gimmick, gameplay-wise (they didn't even bother to reskin her FS). Yes, they may play somewhat differently thanks to changes in properties and what-not, but I feel the clones in Melee were better done from a design standpoint (at least visually).

Falco: looks quite different from Fox, and he has a different gun.
Pichu: looks different from Pikachu, and has a gimmick concerning his attacks.
Roy: looks different from Marth, and has TEH PH!RE (I miss Roy, I know he doesn't really have a chance of coming back, but still...)
Young Link: Eh, we got Toon Link from Brawl onwards, and I'm fine with that, he's quite visually different from normal Link, and his design is a recurring one in the Zelda franchise.
I feel Brawl handled the clone issue best, by attempting to further differentiate the clones from their moveset-sources, and the ones that got added for that game being made quite different already.

I think my main gripe with the clones this time is: yes, they're last minute additions, but considering how little effort went into them this time, and the characters that got cut this time, were they really worth it?
In my opinion, no. You guys may disagree, but I don't like any of the clones this time around, and none of the newcomers in general made me any excited at all. The already existing clones weren't really changed from how their movesets were in Brawl for the most part (I hate how Falco still has the Landmaster). And Wolf is gone, I love using Wolf in Brawl, not being able to do the same in Smash 4 saddens me.

 

[Terotrous]

It's not laziness when they were running out of development time. There just wasn't enough time for many changes.

Hence why I originally suggested to make one semi-clone rather than three full clones. Or, better yet, don't make the 3DS version at all and make like 10 more characters instead.

 

[Frostwraith]

Hence why I originally suggested to make one semi-clone rather than three full clones. Or, better yet, don't make the 3DS version at all and make like 10 more characters instead.

Oh, you're one of those anti-3DS people that will use its existence as an excuse for everything you don't like about the game.

I'm done with this thread. I'm so done.

 

[Terotrous]

Oh, you're one of those anti-3DS people that will use its existence as an excuse for everything you don't like about the game.

I'm done with this thread. I'm so done.

You were the one who brought up development time. If development time was scarce, why were you making two versions of the game instead of one?

I'd be perfectly fine with 3DS existing if they didn't have to compromise certain aspects of the game because of it. It probably should have been handed to a separate development team, like Sega does with their handheld ports of Sonic games.

 

[Frostwraith]

You were the one who brought up development time. If development time was scarce, why were you making two versions of the game instead of one?

I'd be perfectly fine with 3DS existing if they didn't have to compromise certain aspects of the game because of it. It probably should have been handed to a separate development team, like Sega does with their handheld ports of Sonic games.

Who said there weren't different teams at Bandai Namco handling each version? It's entirely possible considering Bandai Namco is one of the biggest video game companies of Japan.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've been here for the last few days and my patience has worn out. (Not saying it's your fault, though.)

 

[Crocovile]

I'd be perfectly fine with 3DS existing if they didn't have to compromise certain aspects of the game because of it. It probably should have been handed to a separate development team, like Sega does with their handheld ports of Sonic games.

One should be careful if on decides to hand the responsibilities of one version of a game to a separate development team. I own both versions of Sonic Lost World, the Wii U version is a perfectly okay game (I like it), but the 3DS version is a complete travesty, and I regret ever buying it. personally, I feel Dimps should not be allowed near the Sonic franchise anymore, their design-philosophies are the worst when it comes to platformers. Bottomless pits and awful mandatory gimmicks everywhere.

 

[Wintropy]

You were the one who brought up development time. If development time was scarce, why were you making two versions of the game instead of one?

I'd be perfectly fine with 3DS existing if they didn't have to compromise certain aspects of the game because of it. It probably should have been handed to a separate development team, like Sega does with their handheld ports of Sonic games.

He's referring to the fact that development time was scarce when the clones were added. It was literally among the last things they did. To say they should have made Dark Pit a more defined character is innately redundant, because they just didn't have the time or resources. They were working on a tight schedule and strict deadline, they did what they could within time allotted to them.

The 3DS version doesn't have anything to do with this argument, though, so I'd suggest we just leave it at that. It's not going to solve anything to just keep reiterating the same old points as have already been pointed out plenty of times before.

 

[Terotrous]

One should be careful if on decides to hand the responsibilities of one version of a game to a separate development team. I own both versions of Sonic Lost World, the Wii U version is a perfectly okay game (I like it), but the 3DS version is a complete travesty, and I regret ever buying it. personally, I feel Dimps should not be allowed near the Sonic franchise anymore, their design-philosophies are the worst when it comes to platformers. Bottomless pits and awful mandatory gimmicks everywhere.

Sonic Lost World 3DS is mechanically sound (the engine is actually even pretty impressive for 3DS), the level design is just bad. If they could get a new level designer at Dimps they could probably put out some pretty good products.

Nevertheless, most people seem to feel the 3DS port of Smash is somewhat lackluster anyway, so I don't think too much would be lost by giving it to a different team to port.

 

[LancerStaff]

You were the one who brought up development time. If development time was scarce, why were you making two versions of the game instead of one?

I'd be perfectly fine with 3DS existing if they didn't have to compromise certain aspects of the game because of it. It probably should have been handed to a separate development team, like Sega does with their handheld ports of Sonic games.

Development time wasn't scarce, they were just running short when it came to the clones. You see, the mechanics work exactly the same between the versions, and separate teams work on solo modes and characters. We'd have the exact same characters with one game instead of two. If anything, we'd have less characters since less time would of been set for the nearly separate solo modes.

Sonic Lost World 3DS is mechanically sound (the engine is actually even pretty impressive for 3DS), the level design is just bad. If they could get a new level designer at Dimps they could probably put out some pretty good products.

Nevertheless, most people seem to feel the 3DS port of Smash is somewhat lackluster anyway, so I don't think too much would be lost by giving it to a different team to port.

Lol, "most people?" Nope, general opinion is that SSB3D is great.

 

[Terotrous]

He's referring to the fact that development time was scarce when the clones were added. It was literally among the last things they did. To say they should have made Dark Pit a more defined character is innately redundant, because they just didn't have the time or resources. They were working on a tight schedule and strict deadline, they did what they could in time allotted.

They had time for 3 clones though, it could easily have just been one clone that had a bit more work put into it.

 

[LancerStaff]

They had time for 3 clones though, it could easily have just been one clone that had a bit more work put into it.

Bar-gain-ing!♪

 

[Wintropy]

They had time for 3 clones though, it could easily have just been one clone that had a bit more work put into it.

No it couldn't have. It'd be the same result overall. It's not that easy to put more work into a character, especially in the time they had left over. Assigning more people to fix the clones wouldn't make any difference, because they had enough time to make minor differences, but not enough to do anything beyond that.

It's these clones or nothing. Those are your options, alright?

 

[Folt]

As far as authenticness goes, Dark Pit is rather true to the source material, having his signature weapon for most of his attacks and one of his most powerful weapons (and one which is also associated with him) as his Final Smash.

Lucina masqueraded as Marth in her game which is probably why she was considered an alt in the first place. Her attacks also lack Marth's tipper which is a rather significant change to a moveset (albeit Marth's moveset probably did benefit from having the tipper but oh well).

Dr. Mario brings his differences from Melee with him and keeps the Dr. Tornado as his Down Special (whereas he'd have to have FLUDD if he was put in as an alt). He also got significantly slower and possess worse recovery than Mario this time around so playing him like you'd play Mario rather than as a different character in his own right would be foolish. Either way, he has two different moves from his parent and also had more of his other similiar moves retooled (like his Up Special) to be visually and/or functionally different from Mario.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

(Also, I'm sick of discussing this clone trio. It's beating a dead horse at this point.)

You rather we talk about the Miis and whether giving them 3 unique moveset+ several unique custom special moves is justified?

 

[redroses]

I think using Sakurai's food example is a good point to show what he means.
For example, say you are inviting your family over for dinner and tell them you are making a meat dish, with 3 side dishes and let them know it will all be done by 8pm.
So, you start with calculating how much everything will cost, make a list of what you will all need, go out buy the ingredients, come home and start preparations for the dinner. After everything is almost done, you notice you actually still have 15 minutes left, and some ingredients still left that were used for the main and side dishes.
With these, you somehow can manage to create a very simple dessert you hadn't planned for, and because you hadn't planned for the dessert, you can't make it into a greater dessert because you have to work with what is left over. But you have a nice little dessert you hadn't told anybody about and they might be surprised.

Of course some will say, they would have rather had a chocolate fudge cake, while others rather want ice cream, but neither of these options were possible and at least they got a dessert, as it wasn't even planned from the start.

 

[Narth]

Well said, Sakurai. :3

 

[OnettGirl]

The issue isn't the character choice, it's the fact that their moveset is 95% identical to another character. Like I said earlier, I'd be fine with Dark Pit if he had totally different specials and maybe a few different normals from Pit, which should have been easy since KIU has approximately a billion different weapons. The problem is the laziness, not the character. Dark Pit in this game doesn't even feel authentic to KIU.

The only thing i'm really going to point out as a direct response is: how can you say Dark Pit in this game "Doesn't feel authentic to KI:U"? Dark Pit is a carbon clone of Pit. His main weapon is the Silver Bow [which he does use in this game], and his best weapon is the Dark Pit Staff [which he uses for his Final Smash]. Because he in inherently a clone he should have a similar yet slightly different fighting style to Pit. In fact i'd say the opposite. If he was too different from Pit he wouldn't feel authentic to KI:U. And of course it's going to look lazy. It's a clone. By definition a clone is a carbon copy. Any clone looks lazy, not just Dark Pit. At least there are some differences about him. Do I want him to get the luigification in smash 6, sure, i'd LOVE that. Because of his story and his importance in the plot I think he has perfect reasoning to be his own character [the people who think KIU having "3 reps" is too much are frankly ignorant and are tied down far to much by the idea of a series should have x many rep's]. But I don't want him to become too different, just enough to keep them distinguished. A little more tweaking and it would be fine.

I'm really not going to say anything more on the subject as it's been beaten to death by this point and all the other points I was going to respond with have been made in the last 10 posts. There's no point to arguing about clones. They are purely additions and nothing more.

I hate bringing up the Skurai quote because it's overused at this point but I think the best way to wrap this up is: to anyone who still has a problem with the clones being clones "have you ever made a game?" I'm sorry but it's the best way to put this whole argument to rest.

 

[Naoshi]

Sonic was a world wide additions i think , Duck Hunt was a retro remplacement of the IC ...

Japan doesn't really care for Sonic as evident with sales. As for Duck Hunt... errr... where did you even get that information? That's kind of really jumping onto conclusions as Sakurai has never said anything about Duck Hunt ever replacing the Ice Climbers. Don't spread misinformation like that lol

 

[BluePikmin11]

Can we just lock this thread, if you can't learn, you might as well stop the dead horse here.

 

[Gawain]

Oh, you're one of those anti-3DS people that will use its existence as an excuse for everything you don't like about the game.

I'm done with this thread. I'm so done.

To deny that things were cut because of the 3DS is nonsense. Why don't you tell that to the IC mains? The guy has a point, don't just toss it aside and act like it's nothing when it's perfectly valid of a statement, even if you think that the 3DS version is worth cutting things for.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To deny that things were cut because of the 3DS is nonsense. Why don't you tell that to the IC mains? The guy has a point, don't just toss it aside and act like it's nothing when it's perfectly valid of a statement, even if you think that the 3DS version is worth cutting things for.

Which is irrelevant to the thread. Also, we were outright told the 3DS version will affect the Wii U version from the start. If people can't accept it when they were told it straight out, that's their problem.

Likewise, you misunderstand the context. Blaming the 3DS version for having more clones is illogical in every way. The clones got in because they had the time(and it has nothing to do with the 3DS' limitations, since they clearly were easy to do under them). If it was only a Wii U version, other than the IC's back, the roster wouldn't have changed with the time we had.

Most of the complaints form the other person is completely ignoring the argument and scapegoating random things now. :/

 

[Gawain]

Which is irrelevant to the thread. Also, we were outright told the 3DS version will affect the Wii U version from the start. If people can't accept it when they were told it straight out, that's their problem.

Likewise, you misunderstand the context. Blaming the 3DS version for having more clones is illogical in every way. The clones got in because they had the time(and it has nothing to do with the 3DS' limitations, since they clearly were easy to do under them). If it was only a Wii U version, other than the IC's back, the roster wouldn't have changed with the time we had.

Most of the complaints form the other person is completely ignoring the argument and scapegoating random things now. :/

I did not insinuate even half of that. All I was doing was telling that guy not to discard valid viewpoints. If you forget, not even one page ago I literally said almost exactly the same thing you said in your second paragraph, minus the part about the ICs.

On another note I disagree that the ICs would be the only thing to come back, because without the 3DS version it would have freed up a lot of resources which would likely have been put into characters/stages. But I digress.