Sakurai is a Genius: An observation on Final Smashes

[Jisike]

It seems everybody has issues with Giga Bowser. Apparently most of you didn't play Melee, because I have two words for you.
Jiggly

Puff.

Giga bowser in melee =/= Giga bowser in brawl

Giga bowser in melee has the potential to get knocked away by powerful moves like rest.

Giga bowser in brawl does not. He doesn't even flinch when he gets hit.
Therefore...

Giga bowser in melee <<<< Giga bowser in brawl

 

[Kunx990]

Kunx's Fun Fact: Smash Ballz (with a "z") are an item that generates the most advantage to anyone as an item.

 

[Aryman]

I say make it so that in TOURNAMENTS, if BOTH PLAYERS AGREE TO USE FINAL SMASHES that they should be on for that match. If only one wants the smash balls on, then they stay off. That way people don't complain about unfairness.

 

[The Dragon]

While it's not perfect, final smashes DO balance characters. Look at kirby. We'll probably stay as nerfed as ever, but he gets an escellent final smash for a buff. Peach was obviously hit hard by the nerfstick, so she gets a final smash that brings her back up to a level near where she used to be, but a little more balanced. While there are good points for and against smash balls being allowed, I think that if we eliminate them we only widen the tier gaps that will exist, and we know they will: Brawl will have a large diverse groups of characters; tiers are inescapeable.

wow peach was deffinitely not nerfed... her dsmash does less dmg now but it has more of a vacuum effect(stay closer to her.. no it doesnt pull you in) so its easier for her to hit yah multiple times, plus shes faster and is the only character the that can still djc.. i think she does more dmg in general now too.. right now peach is the closest thing to god tier there is..

moving on... yah smashballs no matter how you flip it are way to random to be used in tournaments... just like any other item. believe they are cool and all, and i will use them against friends every once and a while but not to be used competitively

 

[Brenco55]

again how does crappy dk getting a crappy FS help with balance?

 

[Drik Khaail]

I just thought about it... what would happen with a Giga-Gimpyfish?

 

[Mama]

wow peach was deffinitely not nerfed... her dsmash does less dmg now but it has more of a vacuum effect(stay closer to her.. no it doesnt pull you in) so its easier for her to hit yah multiple times, plus shes faster and is the only character the that can still djc.. i think she does more dmg in general now too.. right now peach is the closest thing to god tier there is..

moving on... yah smashballs no matter how you flip it are way to random to be used in tournaments... just like any other item. believe they are cool and all, and i will use them against friends every once and a while but not to be used competitively

Yea Peach was actually buffed in Brawl. Her float canceling, turnip comboing, tilt comboing, running attack boost, and other things all make Peach out to be god tier material. I main Peach with Ganondorf on the side so I was glad to hear that news.

On topic I think that we should consider them in Brawl for a while and not count them out just yet. Once something is banned its banned for good. We should see how things go with them for a bit. Maybe have two types of Tournaments.

 

[MarvinTPA]

(peach) is the only character the that can still djc

Heey what happened to Lucas?
Seeing as his moveset is almost identical to Ness's
I know in America Mother is not popular
But Mother sold like crazy in Japan.
I believe he will be escalated back to (at least) higher-middle tier.
His final smash may or may not be effective, speed has to be taken into account.
However, it probably will be quite effective, as everyone will be busier knocking others into Starstorm than avoiding it.
Brawl's stages seem to be smaller than melee's.
Starstorm should be decent.

 

[Krell]

Giga bowser in melee =/= Giga bowser in brawl

Giga bowser in melee has the potential to get knocked away by powerful moves like rest.

Giga bowser in brawl does not. He doesn't even flinch when he gets hit.
Therefore...

Giga bowser in melee <<<< Giga bowser in brawl

Oh shoot. I had no idea. That changes everything. XD

 

[Krell]

I just thought about it... what would happen with a Giga-Gimpyfish?

You just thought of that?
Well, butt-pain would be a simple way of answering it.

 

[MookieRah]

A good player playing with Giga-Bowser in melee would not loose to ANYONE, not even the best players. His grab range extends halfway across FD, and his ftilt covers a HUGE area and ***** so hard. It is absolutely ridiculous. Look up the videos.

 

[-sonny-]

I see people running around some SSBB boards yammering on about how Smash Balls will/should be banned in tournaments because FSs like Bowser's are so broken.

And it made me think.

To make Bowser's FS a viable option in a tornament, one would have to be good with Bowser to begin with. I mean, no one is going to play a character based on the potential for getting an item that may or may not appear during the match when they can't play as the character by themselves. Especially since Giga Bowser would not be able to 4-stock your opponent, who you won't be able to beat as normal Bowser since you suck with him, before he transforms back.

Do you know what this means?

People who main Bowser are pretty rare, off the top of my head only Gimpy and Mr C come to mind. This actually FORCES people who want to incorporate Giga Bowser into their skill set to make regular Bowser a viable option. It FORCES them to get good with Bowser

And Bowser is just an example, I'm sure this extends to other characters.

It doesn't take away from the variety of characters seen in tournaments, it adds to it. Why would tournaments ban something that makes more characters viable?

Sakurai = Genius

What the hell are you talking about? Your entire argument is based only off of the characters that actually transform into something.

Characters that transform
-Bowser
-Yoshi
-Diddy
-Wario
-Fox

am I missing anyone? I'm not counting Sonic or Pikachu because all you do is fly around.

Characters that don't transform
-Lucas
-King DDD
-IC
-Mario
-Samus
-DK
-Pit
-ZSS
-Ike
-Metaknight
-PKMN Trainer
-Link
-Kirby
-Pikachu
-Peach

Do you see what I mean? Your argument fails. Another stupid topic to add on to the gigantic pile ...

 

[Lgndknight]

ugh.. Well, it's a bold topic for 8 posts is it not? many more people will main Bowser, he's better now.

 

[The Adder]

ugh.. Well, it's a bold topic for 8 posts is it not? many more people will main Bowser, he's better now.

Actually, the topic itself was my second post under this name.

And -sonny- you seem to have missed the point more than anyone else. It's not about transformations it's about above average FSs allowing characters who would be ignored to get a second glance.

 

[Tony_]

On topic I think that we should consider them in Brawl for a while and not count them out just yet. Once something is banned its banned for good. We should see how things go with them for a bit. Maybe have two types of Tournaments.

I agree with this. One format for those who WANT to use final smashes, and one format for those who don't.

 

[The Dragon]

well first off no character is ever really ignored except yoshi because everuone hates him, at least i do anyway someone somewhere is going to play that character for w/e reason no matter how good or bad they are, that being said, relying on an item to choose a character is beyond stupid, yes the final smash may add points to a bad character, aka yoshi again, but first you have to be at least decent with them to begin with, and then you have an equal chance as anyone to get a smashball as anyone so getting your fs real is up to chance, which means you be baising your reason to pick the said character solely on luck, which allows for no skill development, while it may be fun but you should choose a character because you like the characte not because you like one of their moves especially not such a iffy one like the final smash, which is by no means garenteed. For an example, granted its an extreme but it is possible from the minute you start playing the game there is a possibilty that you NEVER even acquire the smashball someone could always get it first. so like i stated earlier you should pick a character you like and not try to bolster characters who have decent fses when those moves arent garenteed

 

[A New England Winter]

A good player playing with Giga-Bowser in melee would not loose to ANYONE, not even the best players. His grab range extends halfway across FD, and his ftilt covers a HUGE area and ***** so hard. It is absolutely ridiculous. Look up the videos.

But you can't play as Giga in Melee, only in Brawl for a, what, 10-15 second period? Just throw Smash Balls on very low setting, and there you go.

What the hell are you talking about? Your entire argument is based only off of the characters that actually transform into something.

Characters that transform
-Bowser
-Yoshi
-Diddy
-Wario
-Fox

am I missing anyone? I'm not counting Sonic or Pikachu because all you do is fly around.

Characters that don't transform
-Lucas
-King DDD
-IC
-Mario
-Samus
-DK
-Pit
-ZSS
-Ike
-Metaknight
-PKMN Trainer
-Link
-Kirby
-Pikachu
-Peach

Do you see what I mean? Your argument fails. Another stupid topic to add on to the gigantic pile ...

Pikachu and Sonic count very much for a transform.

Transform (v.) 1 to change the appearance or form of. 2 to change the nature, condition or function of.

Hmm...Giant ball of electricity? Shiny yellowy aura/fur? acting differently from their previous form? I think we have a transformation.

Here's my opinion on the FS thing, using an example of Peach, with a moral at the end: Peach can absolutely raep if giving the chance to, with her DSmash, Turnip, etc. But she dies off pretty easily because she's kinda lightweight. To counter such measures, you'd like to keep your percentages down as low as possible. Peach Blossom does just that. Depending on your spacing from the enemy and, if sleep is like it is in Melee, their damage %, they'll drop asleep for a variant amount of time. Meanwhile, peaches fall into place, seemingly out of nowhere, but whatever. In this situation you can reap the rewards of your Summoning Jutsu, and bring your percentage down, gearing you up for a longer match. Plus, if you damage them more, they become prone to longer sleep, which means more peaches for you that they don't steal, which means needing more skill to achieving so. And a free hit on a dood never hurts you.

Moral: FS = Roundoutters. They are used for the needs of a character (Peach needing lower % percentage to stay alive more), and are also effected by the skill of the player employing them (Used too early in the stockspan = insomnia and a hunger for peaches).

 

[Coselm]

Items were banned in Melee because they made the good characters better.

Fox and Falco for instance, were much more likely to get an item once it has fallen, and if they didn't get it, they had reflectors to protect them.

That makes the 2 best characters even better.

Brawl could be different in that respect, especially since Fox supposedly got nerfed, and if Falco comes back, he's not supposed to be able to Short Hop Laser.

But suppose it's not different, and some characters are much better able to get the smash ball, or punish you for going after it. And then suppose that they have really good final smashes.

I think final smashes are more than likely to be banned, but if they do a better job of balancing the game then breaking it, then maybe they will stay for tournaments.

We will just have to wait and see, I suppose.

One thing is for sure... Once Brawl comes out, and tournaments get started, this site will have a lot of debate over the issue.

 

[MookieRah]

But you can't play as Giga in Melee, only in Brawl for a, what, 10-15 second period? Just throw Smash Balls on very low setting, and there you go.

Action Replay. Also, this was in response to someone saying Jiggs would **** him, in which case... no, he'd die to 2-3 consecutive standing ftilts that would all combo into a ko.

 

[The Dragon]

Items were banned in Melee because they made the good characters better.

Fox and Falco for instance, were much more likely to get an item once it has fallen, and if they didn't get it, they had reflectors to protect them.

That makes the 2 best characters even better.

Brawl could be different in that respect, especially since Fox supposedly got nerfed, and if Falco comes back, he's not supposed to be able to Short Hop Laser.

But suppose it's not different, and some characters are much better able to get the smash ball, or punish you for going after it. And then suppose that they have really good final smashes.

I think final smashes are more than likely to be banned, but if they do a better job of balancing the game then breaking it, then maybe they will stay for tournaments.

We will just have to wait and see, I suppose.

One thing is for sure... Once Brawl comes out, and tournaments get started, this site will have a lot of debate over the issue.

the fastest characters will Always be able to get items faster, it may be different with the smashball but i doubt it, because even though t the faster character has to hit it more times to break it, he'll be able to get to it much faster than the slower character and since its movement is random the slower character can't wait for it to go to a specific spot since it has no predetermined direction which is why they will be banned

 

[A New England Winter]

Action Replay. Also, this was in response to someone saying Jiggs would **** him, in which case... no, he'd die to 2-3 consecutive standing ftilts that would all combo into a ko.

Action Replay doesn't count. It harvests Little Sisters for their Adam.

You can't say that Giga is a playable character in Melee because of AR, that's like trying to say you can use a Lv. 100 Arceus in a Pokemon tourney because you got it from an AR. It's foolish and liable to get yourself yelled at by small children (like -sonny-) and f*gs (like me). He was never meant to be used as a playable character, his stats were cranked up for the sake of the 2 or 3 matches he ever even showed his massive ugly face, and therefore cannot be fairly compared to Brawl variation of the character, who shows up for 10-15 second periods every rising after getting a small glowing sphere-thing that everyone else is trying to get, and that you can lose if you get your *** kicked around.

You see the difference?

 

[RDK]

well first off no character is ever really ignored except yoshi because everuone hates him, at least i do anyway someone somewhere is going to play that character for w/e reason no matter how good or bad they are, that being said, relying on an item to choose a character is beyond stupid, yes the final smash may add points to a bad character, aka yoshi again, but first you have to be at least decent with them to begin with, and then you have an equal chance as anyone to get a smashball as anyone so getting your fs real is up to chance, which means you be baising your reason to pick the said character solely on luck, which allows for no skill development, while it may be fun but you should choose a character because you like the characte not because you like one of their moves especially not such a iffy one like the final smash, which is by no means garenteed. For an example, granted its an extreme but it is possible from the minute you start playing the game there is a possibilty that you NEVER even acquire the smashball someone could always get it first. so like i stated earlier you should pick a character you like and not try to bolster characters who have decent fses when those moves arent garenteed

^ TL ; DR.

I wish people would learn how to use the enter function. STOP POSTING WALLS OF TEXT! You're not AlphaZealot.

 

[Eaode]

It's been bugging me for quite a while (off topic)

What is tl;dr ?

 

[RDK]

It's been bugging me for quite a while (off topic)

What is tl;dr ?

Too long; didn't read.

 

[MookieRah]

You can't say that Giga is a playable character in Melee because of AR, that's like trying to say you can use a Lv. 100 Arceus in a Pokemon tourney because you got it from an AR.

I wasn't talking about tournament play -_-. A guy simply said you could **** Giga with Jiggs on melee so you should be able to in Brawl when Bowser transforms. Which wouldn't be the case in melee if his opponent had something more developed than a brain stem. You guys are reading way way way too much into this talk on Giga.

 

[RDK]

I wasn't talking about tournament play -_-. A guy simply said you could **** Giga with Jiggs on melee so you should be able to in Brawl when Bowser transforms. Which wouldn't be the case in melee if his opponent had something more developed than a brain stem. You guys are reading way way way too much into this talk on Giga.

Why would anyone even say that? Giga Bowser doesn't flinch in Brawl; there's no way you could **** him with Jiggs. Or any character, for that matter.

 

[Santini]

But Bowser is good now. So even if he didn't have the best FS, I'm sure would still be a popular choice. And then there's also DK who is not very good, but has the worst FS. Therefore: Sakuari < Genius.

 

[iMichael]

Bowser is pretty good in Brawl from what we can tell. Way better than what he was in melee. Also, explain Sonic. He's really good AND has a final smash that is debatably as good if not better than Bowsers. Now look at DK, who pretty much didn't get any buffs or nerfs. He is merely "ok", yet has a garbage FS.

Please don't act like we are idiots in our speculations. People like to assume we are ban happy tourney***s that are out to destroy the game.

Can't just say someones Final Smash is garbage. Did you play DK at e-for-all? I don't think you did.....If you time it right, the waves get huge and can be seen in some demo videos.

 

[MookieRah]

If you time it right, the waves get huge and can be seen in some demo videos.

You know, if you time it right, it's still random to get it, and it's still crap compared to everyone elses FSs.

 

[RDK]

DK's FS had so much potential to be freaking awesome, and Sakurai kind of ruined it. Although the recent slew of crappy bongo-based DK games didn't really help any....

 

[iMichael]

You know, if you time it right, it's still random to get it, and it's still crap compared to everyone elses FSs.

"Feel the rhythm and increase the power! T-t-take it easy, will ya!" - Masahiro Sakurai

"It’s cool to just pound on them, but why not listen to the music that’s playing? Press buttons in time to the beat to really get things hopping." - Masahiro Sakurai

Who should I believe

A) The creator of the game.

or

B) Some random person on the internet.

Think I'll go with A.