Roy's DACUS Up-Smash

[StevenBeastMode]

Alright, so I was watching JCaesar's stream today and I saw ****~ slide while using Roy's Up-Smash. I'm assuming that was DACUS (something I'm not terribly familiar with) and had a few questions about it. First, how and when is something like a DACUS Up-Smash useful for Roy? Second, how difficult is DACUS to pull off and/or use effectively? I know Roy's not out yet, but I was just really curious about this particular thing.

 

[Kally Wally]

DACUS is fairly tough to get down, but not terrible. I have R set to attack, and hit C-stick down -> Control stick Up -> R to DACUS. You can also use Z (or anything else bound to Grab) but the timing is 1 frame stricter if you do that, and it's only a few frames anyway, character depending. The key, I find, is to not do it all too fast - there's a specific timing to it.

 

[Lethalx]

Link to the stream?

 

[Kally Wally]

Link to the stream?

http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar/b/481894629

 

[StevenBeastMode]

DACUS is fairly tough to get down, but not terrible. I have R set to attack, and hit C-stick down -> Control stick Up -> R to DACUS. You can also use Z (or anything else bound to Grab) but the timing is 1 frame stricter if you do that, and it's only a few frames anyway, character depending. The key, I find, is to not do it all too fast - there's a specific timing to it.

Thanks for the info. Would it be a good idea to practice this with Marth for now or no?

 

[Seraphim.]

Alright, so I was watching JCaesar's stream today and I saw ****~ slide while using Roy's Up-Smash. I'm assuming that was DACUS (something I'm not terribly familiar with) and had a few questions about it. First, how and when is something like a DACUS Up-Smash useful for Roy? Second, how difficult is DACUS to pull off and/or use effectively? I know Roy's not out yet, but I was just really curious about this particular thing.

Practice it and it'll become second nature, I guess I'm sort of lucky by being a Brawl player I already know how to pull off a DACUS pretty easily. As for it's use, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Xinc]

Is the purpose of it just to gain additional distance and momentum control with the USmash?

 

[FlashingFire]

I haven't thoroughly tested what I'm about to say, mostly because I'm still getting the hang of DACUSing myself, but Roy's DACUS seems like it would have interesting applications as a distance-closing platform poke and a follow-up out of certain moves. Specifically I'm thinking of Fthrow, Bthrow, and maybe Utilt.

 

[G13_Flux]

yeah its a very useful tech chase and great for platforms. in fact that is the main thing i would recomend you utilize the DACUS for, at least with roy, since it has such great coverage above him but not so much on sides. it can be used very effectively out of a DD as well since it is so quick and ranged. it isjust simply a very quick way to pull off an attack from a distance, and its something that i believe not enough people implement into their game. you really just need to practice the input lots of times to develop muscle memory to the point where you can implement the attack almost spontatneously during a match when you want to.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Ok so how do I dacus in project m exactly?

I heard it is harder than it is in vbrawl,is that true?

 

[G13_Flux]

that is true. its because brawl has a buffer to make things easier. but trust me, with some practice, it IS doable.

essentially the concept is that you are cancelling the very beginning of your dash attack with an upsmash. you will first need to change the control scheme so that you can realistically perform the sequence though. i personally change z to attack instead of grab (some chars can do it with z set to grab, most cannot though and need it to be attack), but some other people prefer changing R to attack or L to attack, just some button that can be set to attack other than the A button (it will not work with the A button since your fingers are not positioned well enough to perform the technique in that manor). what you then do is this:

tap to dash > dash attack (c stick down) > flick up on control stick and press attack button (z in my case)

if you use a quarter circle motion on the control stick, its the most efficient way to go from doing a dash attack, to pressing up and z immediately after you input the command for dash attack.

so overall, its a three step process: the quarter circle flick, the input for the dash attack (performed at beginning of flick), and the input for the attack (performed at the end of the flick, when control stick is facing upwards). you should get a large slide out of this, there are youtube videos explaining it as well if you need additional help.

 

[Yeerk]

I've started DACUSing by just switching to claw style (inside of index finger for A) when I need it. I never play claw, and it's not the most comfortable, but I think that, given practice, it'll be easier to use it situationally than setting different buttons to attack/grab/etc., especially since I play other characters that don't DACUS. I have specific uses for all my buttons

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Is the timing for dacus different for everyone,if so who is the easiest?

Also does input assist affect dacus to make it easier?

 

[Yanoss1313]

Is the timing for dacus different for everyone,if so who is the easiest?

Also does input assist affect dacus to make it easier?

yeah, the timing varies from character to character, i've found the easiest to be lucas, ganondorf, ike, link, snake. those five are pretty easy, i can pull them off 100% of the time in match, some of the others are a bit harder though. I've had trouble with roy, wolf and a few others, just keep at it, you'll start getting it. I also wouldn't really use it as marth unless the situation is perfect.

 

[Kally Wally]

Adding to that: You don't want to attack as soon as possible. I'm much more consistent at DACUSing if I delay the Up-Smash input by just a brief moment. Your mileage may vary, though.

 

[G13_Flux]

yeah there are some that its much easier to do with than others, like yanoss said. wolf falco GW roy and ROB are characters that i think have very useful DACUSs that are a little more hard to pull off.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Yea I noticed that they are slightly different like I use Link,Roy and Mewtwo the most.

I can use links like 1/3 to 50% of the time.Roy's take a few tries and I can not get Mewtwo's to work at all...Gannondorf is not bad in this so I can try him out since his is easy.

Thanks for the help!

 

[G13_Flux]

yeah its really just muscle memory. i learned it well by just messing around in training mode for awhile, and i would practice it a bunch of times. after you consistently keep practicing it, it becomes exponentially easier, trust me. its like waveshining. seems impossible at first, but once you land that first shield pressure > waveshine > waveshine > upsmash combo it feels soo smooth.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Yea I noticed I just need to practice more also does input assist affect dacusing to make it easier?I am not sure if three frames would do much anyway.

 

[Kally Wally]

I'm pretty sure it would make it substantially easier, but I haven't tested it.

 

[G13_Flux]

you would be surprised the difference that 3 frames makes.

 

[NinjaLink]

It seems the timing is almost like Sheiks in brawl. Z doesnt seem to work but A does for Roy. Need to find more uses for this.

 

[G13_Flux]

i explained that above, z doesnt work when its set to grab. it works just switch up some controls. it has great uses for throwing it out once in awhile as an approach, and its great for platforms as well. can be used right out of an fthrow/dthrow/bthrow (DI dependent) as a combo too for some good damage.

 

[Fortress]

Cannot do Roy's DACUS at all. I'm just doing it incorrectly, but, I can do Link, Snake, and Ganondorf's just fine.

 

[standardtoaster]

You can only dacus with Attack with roy. He has a 4 frame jumpstart, which means you have a 1 frame window to dacus.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I can do Roy's like 1/5th of the time it is harder than Link's and I find myself doing the inputs faster than Link's.

I use wiimote+nunchuck with down smash as d-pad down.So I use the control stick to dash and up smash.With my right thumb I press down smash and A to up smash with control stick up.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

He has a 4 frame jumpstart, which means you have a 1 frame window to dacus.

So people with 3 or less can't dacus at all?

What about with input assist?

 

[standardtoaster]

3 frame jumpstart is the fastest in the game and they cannot dacus. Input assist does not allow them to dacus either.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Who has a 3 frame jumpstart?

 

[PsionicSabreur]

You can only dacus with Attack with roy. He has a 4 frame jumpstart, which means you have a 1 frame window to dacus.

Was his jumpsquat sped up or something? I seem to remember that Roy's jumpsquat was 5 frames in Melee (1 slower than Marth), but I guess I can't speak for the new age Roy.

 

[standardtoaster]

Yes, it was made faster. It's 4 in pm and 5 in melee.

 

[FlashingFire]

Fox is the most notable character with a 3-frame jumpsquat. Thank goodness he doesn't get ANOTHER way to pull off an Up Smash.

 

[G13_Flux]

fox, shiek, toon link, sonic, kirby, and pikachu all have 3 frame jumpsquat. I think its possible lucario or metaknight could too, but im not so sure on them or any of the other new comers

 

[FlashingFire]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/1u57q8/database_project_m_30_database/

This dude has put in some serious work compiling PM data. Jumpstart frames are in this, as well as fall speeds, ff speeds, run speeds, grab ranges, and more.

 

[Mr.Random]

Yes, it was made faster. It's 4 in pm and 5 in melee.

Change it back lol jk

 

[Mr.Random]

I swear it's almost impossible to master this

 

[FlashingFire]

It takes practice. After about a month of playing with it on and off, I can pull off Roy's DACUS around 75% of the time. It's a juicy follow-up out of Fthrow, and even sets up combos on some characters at low-mid percents.

 

[G13_Flux]

Very true flashingfire, i use it very often from fthrow. Ill either use that or dash attack. its great for tech chases on platfoms from beneath as well. The spike hitbox actually seems to connect a lot of the time when you up smash someone on a platform.

i can do it probably around 3/4 of the time as well, depending on the match. Some matches im far more in the zone than others and can easily do the input. I will say though, the softer you do the input, the easier it becomes. If you try to mash out at that buttons its not exactly efficient on your fingers. Once you build up some useful muscle memory, give it a light touch.

 

[furyberserk]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/1u57q8/database_project_m_30_database/

This dude has put in some serious work compiling PM data. Jumpstart frames are in this, as well as fall speeds, ff speeds, run speeds, grab ranges, and more.

That actually has nothing on Roy's meteors or spikes, and it's months old.