Roy Q & A- Ask Roy players about Roy

[Rain(ame)]

Okay...this is the Roy help section. In other words...if you need your Roy critiqued, or you just need general Roy help. (different from the stratagem discussion) The Roy players with the know how will more than likely answer your questions. Since it's a pain in the butt for one person to be the answer guru, we'll just have the Roy heads do it.

Feel free to post vids or ask for advice.

Extremely note-worthy posts will be linked to in the OP. Also, let's not be jerks about other people's Roy playing.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

umm hi. what are some stages with low ceilings? i need to know what to counterpick against floaties. also what are good stages for roy in general, other that FD?

 

[ChivalRuse]

umm hi. what are some stages with low ceilings? i need to know what to counterpick against floaties. also what are good stages for roy in general, other that FD?

Roy doesn't kill primarily off the top. Only dsmash does that consistently...

For some weird reason, I like Stadium with Roy.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

he kills off the top if victems r floaty. thats y

 

[GodFed]

what are some stages with low ceilings? i need to know what to counterpick against floaties. also what are good stages for roy in general, other that FD?

-battlefield works well for me. The ceiling is low enough to KO G&W and Jiggs with a reverse blazer 100% of the time when they are at 0%. Ask atthe melee discussion board if you want ceiling data, I'm not that smart yet...lol
-Other than that....maybe DR64. idk, I play against a lot of foxes and falcos when I'm Roy, FinalDestination FTW

Anyway, a question of mine.
Actually, a preface: If you Roy players notice, doing a down b against opponents that attack from the ledge (they press a or b while hanging) counters them and hits them up and away, until they hit an invisible ceiling and bounce downward to their doom. (at least, I experienced this).
Perhaps you've done this, perhaps not. I know that, against a lvl 1 Fox on FD, if they attack from the ledge, my counter hits them to a ceiling and them down...

Q:WHY? where'd the ceiling come from?

I notice this with upSmash, too, sometimes...fyi

 

[ChivalRuse]

I guess uthrow, reverse up-b, utilt (sweetspotted) and fsmash (and... dsmash) can kill off the top when there's a low ceiling.

Does side-b ever get a star KO? It seems to have a very horizontal trajectory without survival DI.

 

[GodFed]

I guess uthrow, reverse up-b, utilt (sweetspotted) and fsmash (and... dsmash) can kill off the top when there's a low ceiling.

what? no no... my question is this - a ceiling magically, invisibly, is "there" when I sometimes counter other people with down B. The character that I hit will fly up and hit this invisible ceiling, (not the "ceiling" that makes you die), causing them to bounce downwards, instead of flying upwards ...why?

Anyway, I looked around, and found this which kind of explained it to me. It seems to be dependent on Roy's shield. Take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-YlJZYPjLs

 

[ChivalRuse]

what? no no... my question is this - a ceiling magically, invisibly, is "there" when I sometimes counter other people with down B. The character that I hit will fly up and hit this invisible ceiling, (not the "ceiling" that makes you die), causing them to bounce downwards, instead of flying upwards ...why?

Anyway, I looked around, and found this which kind of explained it to me. It seems to be dependent on Roy's shield. Take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-YlJZYPjLs

Aw nice. Wow, that's crazy. I'm going to test that out.

 

[Dogysamich]

so what you're saying is that the counter rebound... and i'd take a stab in the dark and say the "invisible ceiling glitch", actually depends on shield level?

Hell, with the way Melee is, I could see it.

 

[GodFed]

Yes, the counter made them rebound off of some wall. Man, melee is crazy.

What's the invisible ceiling glitch? I checked out the glitches thread in melee discussion, and there was maybe one or two posts about roy's counter and the ceiling. I read that the ceiling is dependent on the opponent's damage, the opponent's attack, or roy's shield. Which is it?

 

[spider_sense]

lol Roy's counter causes his opponent to fly in the air and then immediately get spiked down midair. I'm still contemplating whether or not it's still a glitch, let alone a "wall" glitch because that implies that it can be teched. (Which it can't) haha I think it dependent on percent/the opponents attack. I've usually seen the glitch occur around 60-70%

 

[Dogysamich]

What's the invisible ceiling glitch?

It's what people call the thing where you get hit up by a vertical attack, and rather than flyin off the top (and probably dying) you kinda just fall back down.

(I have a vid for it, I just have to find it). Everybody calls it an invisible ceiling glitch, me and a few people call it air teching cause I swear everytime I get it im holding R or I press R. AFAIK, nobody knows WHAT causes it for sure.

But I will say after seeing that vid Ima mess around with the shield thing. Maybe get somebody to translate that moonspeak vid for me.

 

[KevinM]

I have a video where I tech chase off an invisible ceiling.

Also a word of advice, don't rely on the reverse blazer in a match-up. Landing it on a competent Jiggs or whoever, is more trouble then it's worth.. Sure you can kill at zero, but if you miss (which you will) you'll eat a lovely rest.

 

[GodFed]

It's what people call the thing where you get hit up by a vertical attack, and rather than flyin off the top (and probably dying) you kinda just fall back down.

(I have a vid for it, I just have to find it). Everybody calls it an invisible ceiling glitch, me and a few people call it air teching cause I swear everytime I get it im holding R or I press R. AFAIK, nobody knows WHAT causes it for sure.

Thanks Dogysamich, I remember seeing a vid from RoM where Mango was hit off an invisible ceiling, I think it was tis one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLF2tBttSE

I have a video where I tech chase off an invisible ceiling.

I sure as heck want to see that, KevinM.

Legit advice on the reverse blazer btw. I still try it out on my friend jiggs player all the time, though, but he's kindof caught on. I find it's much safer to do against G&W, b/c of less risk.

 

[Jihnsius]

The "invisible ceiling" glitch with Roy's counter happens to me at least 90% of the time I use his counter, I actually cannot recall a single time it hasn't happened. It always happens at about half-way through the stun time, regardless of knockback.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

the

the counter thing happens to me often. i wouldnt call it an invisible wall, but i think a more appropiate name would be "the counters redirected knockback" or somthing. i think with enough testing it might be able to be manipulated. mabye the redirected knockack might be dependant on wether the attack countered was a smash, tilt , arial, or b attack. hell, mabye it could be if the attack that was countered dealt damage that was a prime number or somthing.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Here's the odd thing about the Counter, though. I'm just throwing this out there, but it seems like Falco seems to have more awkward results than Fox.

Whenever I play Falco, there are times when the counter will hit, but then he'll just go right through it. This also happens with Marth. With Fox, I get a consistent KO, or spike, depending on the situation. Anyone else experience this?

 

[GodFed]

Definitely, rain(ame). (Assuming you mean falco's upB) I find that Falco's upB can pass through Roy's counter, much like his sideB does. This happens to me more than Fox's upB passing through. (I haven't tried it against fox sideB, but I expect that that would pass through too, because it's so fast).

Marth I think has the same issue that Fox and Falco have: their sideB and Marth's upB are too fast to to get hit by the counter move, they're just stopped by the defensive part, if that makes sense.

This is also why when Marth or Roy use counter in the air, while the attacker and Roy are both moving around in the air, Marth/Roy probably won't hit them with the counter attack, just defend. The other character already will have moved far away enough to not get hit back.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Ah, okay, so I wasn't crazy, then. I thought it was just me for a while, xD. It was just one of those situations that you don't want to bring up. >_>

I don't have as much of a problem with it when using Marth, though. It's mainly Roy. However, I noticed, that it also happens when it's moreso from below. Jumping out and hitting with counter, I've got it. So long as it's more in the front, than it is below, you'll deflect them.

 

[Jihnsius]

Wouldn't it be too risky to use the counter in most situations when you could just use something else guaranteed to hit?

 

[Rain(ame)]

Wouldn't it be too risky to use the counter in most situations when you could just use something else guaranteed to hit?

Yes...yes it would be. However...when Fox (not necessarily Falco, but can be) is out there...and it may not be a guaranteed edgeguard with Fsmash or Fire Blade....yeah...I jump out with Counter. It screws them up, and also...if you catch them early enough off stage. (Dtilt->Fsmash) You can gimp the mess out of 'em. (It gives me SO much satisfaction.) You never want to miss an opportunity to gimp Fox/Falco...at least IMHO. I really only try to use counter if the player has a game that I can read. You'd be surprised how accurate you can be if you leave yourself open for your opponent to attack. *Snicker*

 

[Jihnsius]

Doesn't countering off the edge leave you very little room for error? And if the opponent manages to travel to the opposite side before you hit them, wouldn't you just have gimped yourself? An interesting idea, but it seems like you'd need a lot of knowledge as to exactly what can and can't travel through it or give the opponent enough time to ledgehog you before you can get back up.

EDIT: Messing around with the idea and I have yet to manage to get back to the ledge while countering right off the stage. Perhaps if the opponent is aiming for above the stage, but it seems like no lower than the stage itself is possible to recover from.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Yes, it is a very situational thing. It's kind of like Peach's Ftilt. It has it's limited uses. (or her Utilt for that matter) Still in all...knowing when to use it, and being able to do it effectively, I would find important for Roy. Especially since he's at a rather large disadvantage already. What with him being low tier and all.

Edit: I think her Toad would probably be a better example, but I think you get the point, xD.

 

[Jihnsius]

Let's discuss character specific stage bans and counterpicks.

Falco
Ban: Battlefield, Final Destination

Fox:
Ban: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium
Counterpick: Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams

Marth
Ban: Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams
Counterpick: Yoshi's Story

Peach
Ban: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium
Counterpick: Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, Dreamland 64?

Sheik
Ban: Final Destination, Battlefield
Counterpick: Yoshi's Story, Dreamland 64

 

[handsockpuppet]

Let's discuss character specific stage bans and counterpicks.

Falco
Ban: Battlefield, Final Destination

Fox:
Ban: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium
Counterpick: Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams

Marth
Ban: Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams
Counterpick: Yoshi's Story

Peach
Ban: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium
Counterpick: Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, Dreamland 64?

Sheik
Ban: Final Destination, Battlefield
Counterpick: Yoshi's Story, Dreamland 64

FD is not usually a ban, because even though it's big, the open space leaves your juggles uninterrupted. It's definitely not a ban with Falco and Fox, despite Falco's SHL. with marth it's actually a ban though. Fountain of Dreams is usually a CP, as is Yoshi's story.

 

[GodFed]

I definitely wouldn't ban FD on spacies because dtilt leads to so many good combos that are uninterrupted by platforms...

What would you say for Jiggs and Falcon?

 

[handsockpuppet]

Falcon's tough. Probably for counterpicks FD, pokemon stadium, and battlefield. ban Yoshi's story and kongo jungle past stage.

Jiggs is the lower ceiling ones, like FoD and Yoshi's Story. Ban FD.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Ban Yoshi's against Falcon? Hmmm...depends on the Falcon, I guess. I'd be more afraid of Dreamland Falcon + Dreamland = ****. That should be your priority ban....ESPECIALLY against Falcon. Same goes for Peach. (but she can gay you in other ways....)

 

[Cactuar]

I've been practicing my Roy a bit vs Scar, and the only stage I haven't really felt comfortable fighting Falcon on has been FD. Falcon just has too much room to move, and the lack of platforms really limits approach angles. I'm going to try and get the vids from him later so I can post for critiques. ^^

 

[handsockpuppet]

Yoshi's Story is one of, if not Falcon's best stage. True, Roy is good on small stages, but Falcon WILL combo you at ridiculously low percentages, and since Roy has terrible recovery, it won't be pretty.

I called FD a counterpick because there it's best for Roy to combo Falcon. but true enough, it's also best for Falcon to combo Roy. I'm not sure if the platforms help Roy out that much, though.

 

[Virusbluemage]

I personally hate using Roy on FD or Corneria, or the simple fact that I cannot use the stage to my advantage. To overcome Roys short comings you need to use the stage to outsmart your opponent by using the stage to your advantage(somethint that seems to be easier with Roy than most chatacters) and it's near impossible to do that with neutral featureless stages. When using Roy I generally like Peach's castle or Pokemon Stadium.

 

[ike_love]

this might sound a little crazy, but how about mute city for a counter-pick?

 

[Virusbluemage]

I don't think Mute city is a good counter pick as Roy has poor vertical recovery which is needed when that stage starts to move on the single platform.

 

[ike_love]

Yeah, the risks are pretty high. But I'm just thinking about fact that there's no edge for them to grab half of the time. The same goes for Roy of course, but if you're better at edge-guarding in general than you're opponent then you never know. I know it's a gamble, but I'll sometimes pick MC on a I-feel-lucky whim.

 

[Sukai]

It can be an advantage.
But it's mindgames from there. I can see Roy doing well there, just don't take and Jigglypuffs or Ganondorfs there.
Everyone go to the strategem discussion to discuss down air.