Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[KingofPhantoms]

My view of the possible new Zelda reps popularity-wise.

Toon Zelda is relatively popular to my knowledge, as is Impa. Not certain about Toon Zelda/Tetra.

I believe Tingle is relatively popular in Japan, but I absolutely know that in America he is widely disliked.

Toon Ganondorf, hmm...not sure about him.

Ghirahim isn't TOO popular, but he would definetely fit in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Sheik was planned to be in twilight princess, so let's not render her obsolete. While Impa has made more appearances, Sheik still had more importance storywise than any one of those. Besides, what can Impa do that Sheik can't? They're both Sheikah, so I see no reason to replace one in favor of the other.

Planned but never executed.

Sorry, but many things are planned that don't make final game calls. If we started using THAT as an excuse, the list of possible candidates for Smash would go through the roof.

Also, Impa as of SS has had more story significance than "Sheik." Especially considering SS was the catalyst for the rest of the series. Had Impa not been around, Ghirahim would have won, and the rest of the games would never have happened.

Also, Impa has shown certain magical abilities that Sheik can't use, you see them in the cutscenes in SS, likewise, she can move into Shadows. Both of those are definitely useful abilities that could translate well into Smash. We still get Sheik in principle, but with some new moves. And if you guys miss Sheik so much, she can be an ALT for Impa.

Thus removing any butthurt anyone might have...

Once again, I fail to see the problem with it.

 

[?????????????]

Sheik can't use, you see them in the cutscenes in SS, likewise, she can move into Shadows. Both of those are definitely useful abilities that could translate well into Smash.

Well, if Impa is different from Sheik...

 

[Deleted member]

-Low priority clone that is for all intents and purposes an alternate incarnation of an existing character.
-Ocarina of Time 3D was to OoT and the 3DS what Wind Waker HD is to WW and the Wii U. Do you see the return of OoT Link?
-Spirit Tracks stage with a train conductor Toon Link.

as for why Tingle is viable:

-Very notable and recurring character that has his own games (no other Zelda character can claim this unless you want to count those two CD-I games).
-Offers unique fighting style.

Unlike what Manly says, it is more delusional to believe Impa will take Sheik's place than it is to say Tingle isn't viable.

I'm not saying Impa has a good shot of replacing Sheik, I'm saying it's what SHOULD be done, even though it won't happen. Much like my Lyn argument, I feel about something a certain way, though the likelyhood of it is low...

As for Tingle, I have a hard time seeing what he could now that the Villager is in, and has a similar concept.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Planned but never executed.

Sorry, but many things are planned that don't make final game calls. If we started using THAT as an excuse, the list of possible candidates for Smash would go through the roof.

Also, Impa as of SS has had more story significance than "Sheik." Especially considering SS was the catalyst for the rest of the series. Had Impa not been around, Ghirahim would have won, and the rest of the games would never have happened.

Also, Impa has shown certain magical abilities that Sheik can't use, you see them in the cutscenes in SS, likewise, she can move into Shadows. Both of those are definitely useful abilities that could translate well into Smash. We still get Sheik in principle, but with some new moves. And if you guys miss Sheik so much, she can be an ALT for Impa.

Thus removing any butthurt anyone might have...

Once again, I fail to see the problem with it.

No. Either have both Impa and Shiek or no Impa at all. *grumble*

----

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, the whole prospect of Sheik replacing Impa yet having an exact replica of Sheik's moveset seems like a redundant proposition.

Hey, let's get rid of Marth with Lucina and have her have an exact replica of Marth's moveset while we're at it.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, if Impa is different from Sheik...

Because, then it'd be Fox>Falco, or rather Fox>Wolf with Sheik>Impa, kinda redundant at this point imo, especially, since I wanna SPLIT Zelda, so she becomes a dedicated Zoner. And I already explained the the transform gimmick is poorly implemented.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I still think the whole "Train Conductor Toon Link means Toon Link is unlikely" doesn't mean much. Toon Link doesn't necessarily have to be that SAME Toon Link. Don't forget the 8-bit DK on 75M either. (who in turn may either be Cranky Kong or another DK, but let's not get into that right now)

Let's also not forget Sakurai said he wanted to keep a child Link in some form, and I'm pretty sure Toon Link is more popular than OoT's Young Link.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, the whole prospect of Sheik replacing Impa yet having an exact replica of Sheik's moveset seems like a redundant proposition.

Hey, let's get rid of Marth with Lucina and have her have an exact replica of Marth's moveset while we're at it.

If Marth wasn't the face of the series, sure.

Plus, I never said she'd have an exact replica of the moveset, she'd jsut have the same playstyle in concept.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

While it does seem rather redundant to to replace Sheik with Impa and give the latter a near identical moveset, there are other factors to consider.


There is popularity, though, I'm not certain of how popular and wanted Impa is compared to Sheik.

And their movesets don't necessarily have to be the same. There are ways it could differ significantly.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I feel like Impa could have a unique and fresh moveset if the developers were truly willing to do it. She would be a slower, less agile, but more athletic and powerful version of Sheik with less slaps and combos and more strong punches and kicks.

Could it happen? Sure. Would it happen if she's being programmed? Nah, she'd be a semi-clone at best.

 

[Pacack]

I still think the whole "Train Conductor Toon Link means Toon Link is unlikely" doesn't mean much. Toon Link doesn't necessarily have to be that SAME Toon Link. Don't forget the 8-bit DK on 75M either. (who in turn may either be Cranky Kong or another DK, but let's not get into that right now)

Let's also not forget Sakurai said he wanted to keep a child Link in some form, and I'm pretty sure Toon Link is more popular than OoT's Young Link.

You're missing the crucial fact that Toon Link and Conductor Toon Link are both in the same art form. The 8-bit DK is a different DK AND has a different art form, and, as such, could not be confused with the typical DK, unlike the Toon Links.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Well, the whole prospect of Sheik replacing Impa yet having an exact replica of Sheik's moveset seems like a redundant proposition.

Hey, let's get rid of Marth with Lucina and have her have an exact replica of Marth's moveset while we're at it.

Let's replace Jigglypuff with Meowth and have him with the same moveset and playstyle!

That would be silly.

At least I tried.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Can people quit using the "So and so got low priority in Brawl, oh they are most likely to be removed." Unless you're Mario, Link, Pikachu or any of the other big names like that, your priority could easily differ from game to game (King Dedede and Mewtwo are fine examples of this.)

 

[Deleted member]

People will quit using it when it isn't a valid argument.

As in, they won't.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

You're missing the crucial fact that Toon Link and Conductor Toon Link are both in the same art form. The 8-bit DK is a different DK AND has a different art form, and, as such, could not be confused with the typical DK, unlike the Toon Links.

While it's true that he is a different DK, there has to have been some confusion over him as well, I don't see how the art form would have much of an effect on that. The art form of Train Conductor I do think would cause a little more confusion though. Toon Link might not be an issue if some information regarding the different Toon Links was included in the playable Toon Link's trophy.

 

[Pacack]

While it's true that he is a different DK, there has to have been some confusion over him as well, I don't see how the art form would have much of an effect on that. The art form of Train Conductor I do think would cause a little more confusion though. Toon Link might not be an issue if some information regarding the different Toon Links was included in the playable Toon Link's trophy.

I agree that it's still a possibility for him to be in (and I was honestly confused when I saw that he was a part of a stage, since I considered the Wind Waker HD to have solidified his place before the trailer), but it's about as likely as Ridley being both a stage hazard and a playable character. Not great.

 

[Silverjay323]

People will quit using it when it isn't a valid argument.

As in, they won't.

Remind me why thet is again? Lower "priority" doesn't necessarily mean expendable. It could change depending on how well the character was received, importance to smash, or simply importance to their respected franchises.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

You're missing the crucial fact that Toon Link and Conductor Toon Link are both in the same art form. The 8-bit DK is a different DK AND has a different art form, and, as such, could not be confused with the typical DK, unlike the Toon Links.

The conductor model with the same polygon count as the character in the actual DS is the same art-style as a 128-bit, outlined Toon Link? I don't think so, buddy. Conductor Link looks vastly different from the playable characters, much as how 8-bit DK looked vastly different from the playable characters in Brawl. Unless you're prepared to justify why they wouldn't use Toon Link's actual green outfit he uses for most the game if Toon Link really was outright cut, you have no basis for your claim.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Well, we did have Toon Zelda/Toon "Sheik" planned for Brawl, so it isn't that impossible.

The problem I see with Toon Ganon is that he has only appeared in one game, Wind Waker, and it's remake, while Impa has been around for far longer.

Didn't TG get in one of the 4 Swords games?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The Jiggs and possibly Wolf are the only characters as of now whom I believe would be low priority, that still have any sort of chance of returning.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I have a good idea about a Square-Enix Representative.

The Heroes!

It will be a Pokemon Trainer like character
You will switch between Warrior, Monk, and Black Mage in that order

I just thought of this idea yesterday so I will post more stuff when I think of things.
Tell me what you think.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Ugh. I hate thinking of cutting characters. I don't want anyone cut! And I have no idea who would be the ones cut!

Speaking of which, Pizza, I saw your video. Very well done, and very well put together. I like at the end of you talking about cutting characters. That's basically my stance right now, too. I feel like cuts are very probable, but I have no idea whatsoever who it would be.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I have a good idea about a Square-Enix Representative.

View attachment 2570
The Heroes!

It will be a Pokemon Trainer like character
You will switch between Warrior, Monk, and Black Mage in that order

I just thought of this idea yesterday so I will post more stuff when I think of things.
Tell me what you think.

 

[AEMehr]

Hows this, I found a good alternative!

Although I feel like risking with Geno..

I agree, Geno is a reaaaaalllly big risk. I would have preferred it if you stayed with Layton.
But this roster just got 3998347598347 times shulk better. A real big step in the right direction (Not to mention that it's way more reasonable). My only gripes now are Geno and Marshal (As the Rhythm Heaven character choice I mean, Rhythm Monkey and Karate Joe are way more prominant than Marshal). I'm not a big fan of Nintendouji, but I see the concept of a Hanafuda card master in Smash. So I can accept that.
Lack of Ridley really pushes it imo, but I see why you're straying away from him.

So my suggestions are to go back to Layton (or Snake) and replace Marshal with another Rhythm Heaven character with more prominance.

I know there is no way we'd get a 50 character roster, but here is mine. (I'll call this the planned roster) Credit to Ariand/AEM for making awesome icons

Hmm, I'll have to say that this definately one of your better rosters. I myself still don't see any positives coming from adding Ninten, especially if we were very close to seeing Ness be replaced by Lucas originally. So that really the only thing that bothers me here.

Toon Zelda
Tingle
Toon Ganondorf
Toon Zelda/ Tetra
Impa
Ghirahim

The order I see the potential Zelda newcomers at (though I doubt anyone past Tingle.)

imo tetra should be alone the highest on that list
Tetra meant much more to Zelda's character than Sheik ever did, so don't treat her as just a tag on. She's what makes Toon Zelda different from Zelda.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Guess who's back, and better than ever.

Anyways, I think it's time for Sheik to retire to the great beyond in Skyloft. Yeah, yeah, I know Sheik's a fan favorite and all, but when you stop and think about it... there's no other logical way going about it. It's a reasonable conclusion to be made, and you'll see why in a second. After years of services, it's time for Sheik to retire and let Zelda truly shine on her own. Now, you may ask, what about Zelda and her moveset? Well, no need to rustle your jimmies just yet, because there really is only one suitable replacement for Sheik's status as Zelda's personal bodyguard/protector.....

Impa.

Yes, that's what I said, and will continue to say until the end of time (see what I did there ). Impa is really the ONLY reasonable and logical conclusion, and this is the truth, in order to make Zelda a better character overall. My reasons are as follows:


1. Sheik is holding back Zelda
Let's face the truth of the matter - whenever you're watching the competitive scene with Zelda in Melee or Brawl, all you EVER see is everybody playing as Sheik - never Zelda. I'm not lying in this. Sheik's moveset does not mesh well with Zelda's because they are unbalanced. Sheik basically ruins Zelda as a playable character the same way ZZS ruins Samus as a playable character - why play as this character when you can play a better one? Therefore, in order for Zelda to even consider herself as competitive, she needs to get rid of Sheik as fast as possible, throw him/her to the curb. With Impa, there is more potential to balance out the strengths and weaknesses of both characters, because they are so intertwined with each other that it makes sense for them to have chemistry, in the same way the Ice Climbers or PKMN Trainer's Pokemon are - because they work well together. Sheik and Zelda DOES NOT, and this has already been proven. However, we have yet to see if Zelda and Impa can fix the problems caused by Sheik, so it's still speculation, bu nonethless it still makes logical sense that they would work together. Because of this, and there's no way of going about it elsewhere, you can have both Zelda and Impa be pretty evened out with each other movesets and therefore mesh well together.

2. Impa has great potential as a character
Think about this - if Zelda had a counterpart that, instead of going against her moveset, actually helped it out. That's where Impa comes into play. Impa already has a steady use of magic in her arsenal and jumping/aerial techniques, so she wouldn't feel out of place with Zelda. Sheik feels out of place with shurikens, chains, and ninja like moves, which make NO SENSE when compared to Zelda. It's like two completely DIFFERENT characters, like two politicians who have DIFFERENT agendas instead of working together . Impa's moves would actually makes sense with Zelda, kind of like how Roy and Marth would get along as a team better than Roy and Link. Through this, Zelda and Impa would allow each other to work together as an effective team, rather than rely on Sheik as a solo, because Zelda and Sheik would be like the PKMN Trainer in that you need to rely on their strengths and weaknesses by constantly switching out. In truth, Impa and Zelda, when you truly think about it, make a better team then Zelda and Sheik. Just have them work together, use the PKMN Trainer as an example of balancing, and make sure they play differently yet also similarly.

3. Zelda needs to be updated to her current Skyward Sword form
Uh-huh, uh-huh... the same people who argue against "MUH RELEVENCY" are the same people who argue for "MUH TRADITION" Seriously, why should Zelda, who is now in her SS form, stay stuck forever in the past of OoT/TP JUST BECAUSE of one other character, who is now outdated and irrelevant? It makes no sense, and it's wholly unfair to Zelda. The SS Zelda is easily the best version of Zelda because she now has more personality and overall importance to Link than ever before. So what should we do - allows SS Zelda to truly shine in Smash, or just stay stuck with the past in OoT/TP, just because of Sheik? I'd rather have SS Zelda, thank you very much. There is a time for retro characters, and there's a time for current characters, but right now Zelda isn't a retro character, but a current character in need of a current redesign. Because of this, it makes even more sense to have Impa by Zelda's side than Sheik. By my knowledge, Sheik was NEVER planned for SS, so now the "relevancy" arguments falls apart. Impa is much more important to Zelda now than Sheik is, especially in SS. So let's allow Zelda and Impa to take center stage.

Also, Impa has more history with Zelda than Sheik.


Well, there you are. The truth is, if you all want Zelda to be a better character, then having Impa replace Sheik is really the only way to go about this. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheik, but I like Zelda better, and I want Zelda to be better overall. Impa is the only way she can do that, unless you have Zelda as a solo character and Impa as a separate character... That's that.

 

[Arcadenik]

As for Tingle, I have a hard time seeing what he could now that the Villager is in, and has a similar concept.

The only thing Villager and Tingle would have in common is balloons... and that's it. I doubt Villager is going to use fairy magic, Rupees, and bombs any time soon.

Tingle could be a trap-based character if Tingle has a move where he drops a fake Rupee.. and when an opponent gets closer to that Rupee, it transforms into a Rupee Like (a Like Like with a Rupee antenna) that ensnares them... just like what the Like Likes did in Melee.

Tingle could rely on bombs as projectiles... drop bombs from above while floating with the balloon... bowl bombs across the stage (Skyward Sword)... throw bombs overhead a la Yoshi's egg throw move.

Tingle might even send Stray Fairies (Majora's Mask) to make random things happen... pink fairies turn opponents into fairies (Fairy Spell in Zelda II)... orange fairies poison enemies (poison water in the Woodfall Temple)... green fairies burn enemies (Fire Arrows in the Snowhead Temple)... blue fairies freeze enemies (Ice Arrows in the Great Bay Temple)... yellow fairies stun enemies (Light Arrows in the Stone Tower Temple).

As for regular moves, Tingle could fight like a sissy and prance around like a fairy.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I have a good idea about a Square-Enix Representative.

The Heroes!

It will be a Pokemon Trainer like character
You will switch between Warrior, Monk, and Black Mage in that order

I just thought of this idea yesterday so I will post more stuff when I think of things.
Tell me what you think.

First off, I don't know why you really need to make literally everything you say so emphasized between the colored text and larger font size. At the very least, keep it at size 3 like everybody else does, please.

Second, Square Enix hasn't published a main-series Final Fantasy game since Final Fantasy VI Advance in 2006. There's been very little real relationship between Final Fantasy and Nintendo otherwise. With all the titles on PlayStation consoles, I would sooner think Final Fantasy has a better chance of getting into a Sony All-Stars 2. All of this in addition to the fact that it already has stiff competition with Namco-Bandai, who would provide us Pac-Man, or Level-5, who have been releasing tons of Professor Layton titles exclusively on Nintendo handhelds, AND the fact that Sakurai considers 3rd-Party characters to be something to be allowed under really, really strict conditions... Square Enix rep isn't happening.

Third, it already takes a lot of coding and time to create Pokemon Trainer. A 3rd-Party taking as much effort as Pokemon Trainer with even more licensing barriers to get through would be hell for Sakurai's development team. If any of them even did get into Smash Bros., it would only be one.

Hope that tells you all you need to know.

Guess who's back, and better than ever.

I stopped reading after that. First line and already so modest with yourself...

Welcome back!

I guess!​

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Tingle is way too controversial as a character to be added to the roster, especially because of the creep factor. Not so much in Japan, but in the US, yeah, it's like everybody loves Tingle in Japan and everybody hates Tingle in the US. I just don't think Tingle has a chance, because his popularity is so highly divided. But of course, since Japan's priority > US's priority to Sakurai, who knows. Maybe Sakurai will listen to Japan's demands for Tingle more than US's demands against it. Oh well.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Guess who's back, and better than ever.

Anyways, I think it's time for Sheik to retire to the great beyond in Skyloft. Yeah, yeah, I know Sheik's a fan favorite and all, but when you stop and think about it... there's no other logical way going about it. It's a reasonable conclusion to be made, and you'll see why in a second. After years of services, it's time for Sheik to retire and let Zelda truly shine on her own. Now, you may ask, what about Zelda and her moveset? Well, no need to rustle your jimmies just yet, because there really is only one suitable replacement for Sheik's status as Zelda's personal bodyguard/protector.....

Impa.

Yes, that's what I said, and will continue to say until the end of time (see what I did there ). Impa is really the ONLY reasonable and logical conclusion, and this is the truth, in order to make Zelda a better character overall. My reasons are as follows:


1. Sheik is holding back Zelda
Let's face the truth of the matter - whenever you're watching the competitive scene with Zelda in Melee or Brawl, all you EVER see is everybody playing as Sheik - never Zelda. I'm not lying in this. Sheik's moveset does not mesh well with Zelda's because they are unbalanced. Sheik basically ruins Zelda as a playable character the same way ZZS ruins Samus as a playable character - why play as this character when you can play a better one? Therefore, in order for Zelda to even consider herself as competitive, she needs to get rid of Sheik as fast as possible, throw him/her to the curb. With Impa, there is more potential to balance out the strengths and weaknesses of both characters, because they are so intertwined with each other that it makes sense for them to have chemistry, in the same way the Ice Climbers or PKMN Trainer's Pokemon are - because they work well together. Sheik and Zelda DOES NOT, and this has already been proven. However, we have yet to see if Zelda and Impa can fix the problems caused by Sheik, so it's still speculation, bu nonethless it still makes logical sense that they would work together. Because of this, and there's no way of going about it elsewhere, you can have both Zelda and Impa be pretty evened out with each other movesets and therefore mesh well together.

2. Impa has great potential as a character
Think about this - if Zelda had a counterpart that, instead of going against her moveset, actually helped it out. That's where Impa comes into play. Impa already has a steady use of magic in her arsenal and jumping/aerial techniques, so she wouldn't feel out of place with Zelda. Sheik feels out of place with shurikens, chains, and ninja like moves, which make NO SENSE when compared to Zelda. It's like two completely DIFFERENT characters, like two politicians who have DIFFERENT agendas instead of working together . Impa's moves would actually makes sense with Zelda, kind of like how Roy and Marth would get along as a team better than Roy and Link. Through this, Zelda and Impa would allow each other to work together as an effective team, rather than rely on Sheik as a solo, because Zelda and Sheik would be like the PKMN Trainer in that you need to rely on their strengths and weaknesses by constantly switching out. In truth, Impa and Zelda, when you truly think about it, make a better team then Zelda and Sheik. Just have them work together, use the PKMN Trainer as an example of balancing, and make sure they play differently yet also similarly.

3. Zelda needs to be updated to her current Skyward Sword form
Uh-huh, uh-huh... the same people who argue against "MUH RELEVENCY" are the same people who argue for "MUH TRADITION" Seriously, why should Zelda, who is now in her SS form, stay stuck forever in the past of OoT/TP JUST BECAUSE of one other character, who is now outdated and irrelevant? It makes no sense, and it's wholly unfair to Zelda. The SS Zelda is easily the best version of Zelda because she now has more personality and overall importance to Link than ever before. So what should we do - allows SS Zelda to truly shine in Smash, or just stay stuck with the past in OoT/TP, just because of Sheik? I'd rather have SS Zelda, thank you very much. There is a time for retro characters, and there's a time for current characters, but right now Zelda isn't a retro character, but a current character in need of a current redesign. Because of this, it makes even more sense to have Impa by Zelda's side than Sheik. By my knowledge, Sheik was NEVER planned for SS, so now the "relevancy" arguments falls apart. Impa is much more important to Zelda now than Sheik is, especially in SS. So let's allow Zelda and Impa to take center stage.

Also, Impa has more history with Zelda than Sheik.


Well, there you are. The truth is, if you all want Zelda to be a better character, then having Impa replace Sheik is really the only way to go about this. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheik, but I like Zelda better, and I want Zelda to be better overall. Impa is the only way she can do that, unless you have Zelda as a solo character and Impa as a separate character... That's that.

Hi Divine! Welcome back. Although I swore you said you would be back in October upon mewtwo's reveal. Anyway, I agree with points 1 and 2. Sheik is certainly used more, and Zelda is stuck sucking.

However, I doubt she's getting updated to SS. Link is stuck in as a TP Link with some primary colors similar to SS. I expect the same for Zelda. So Sheik might just stay with an updated look.

Personally, I love sheik. But I don't want her gone. They could try to make Zelda viable, but I'd be fine if Impa gets her own slot as a direct clone of Sheik with Sheik getting cut. As long as they keep the whole Sheikah idea.

Welcome back!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Guess who's back, and better than ever.

Anyways, I think it's time for Sheik to retire to the great beyond in Skyloft. Yeah, yeah, I know Sheik's a fan favorite and all, but when you stop and think about it... there's no other logical way going about it. It's a reasonable conclusion to be made, and you'll see why in a second. After years of services, it's time for Sheik to retire and let Zelda truly shine on her own. Now, you may ask, what about Zelda and her moveset? Well, no need to rustle your jimmies just yet, because there really is only one suitable replacement for Sheik's status as Zelda's personal bodyguard/protector.....

Impa.

Yes, that's what I said, and will continue to say until the end of time (see what I did there ). Impa is really the ONLY reasonable and logical conclusion, and this is the truth, in order to make Zelda a better character overall. My reasons are as follows:


1. Sheik is holding back Zelda
Let's face the truth of the matter - whenever you're watching the competitive scene with Zelda in Melee or Brawl, all you EVER see is everybody playing as Sheik - never Zelda. I'm not lying in this. Sheik's moveset does not mesh well with Zelda's because they are unbalanced. Sheik basically ruins Zelda as a playable character the same way ZZS ruins Samus as a playable character - why play as this character when you can play a better one? Therefore, in order for Zelda to even consider herself as competitive, she needs to get rid of Sheik as fast as possible, throw him/her to the curb. With Impa, there is more potential to balance out the strengths and weaknesses of both characters, because they are so intertwined with each other that it makes sense for them to have chemistry, in the same way the Ice Climbers or PKMN Trainer's Pokemon are - because they work well together. Sheik and Zelda DOES NOT, and this has already been proven. However, we have yet to see if Zelda and Impa can fix the problems caused by Sheik, so it's still speculation, bu nonethless it still makes logical sense that they would work together. Because of this, and there's no way of going about it elsewhere, you can have both Zelda and Impa be pretty evened out with each other movesets and therefore mesh well together.

2. Impa has great potential as a character
Think about this - if Zelda had a counterpart that, instead of going against her moveset, actually helped it out. That's where Impa comes into play. Impa already has a steady use of magic in her arsenal and jumping/aerial techniques, so she wouldn't feel out of place with Zelda. Sheik feels out of place with shurikens, chains, and ninja like moves, which make NO SENSE when compared to Zelda. It's like two completely DIFFERENT characters, like two politicians who have DIFFERENT agendas instead of working together . Impa's moves would actually makes sense with Zelda, kind of like how Roy and Marth would get along as a team better than Roy and Link. Through this, Zelda and Impa would allow each other to work together as an effective team, rather than rely on Sheik as a solo, because Zelda and Sheik would be like the PKMN Trainer in that you need to rely on their strengths and weaknesses by constantly switching out. In truth, Impa and Zelda, when you truly think about it, make a better team then Zelda and Sheik. Just have them work together, use the PKMN Trainer as an example of balancing, and make sure they play differently yet also similarly.

3. Zelda needs to be updated to her current Skyward Sword form
Uh-huh, uh-huh... the same people who argue against "MUH RELEVENCY" are the same people who argue for "MUH TRADITION" Seriously, why should Zelda, who is now in her SS form, stay stuck forever in the past of OoT/TP JUST BECAUSE of one other character, who is now outdated and irrelevant? It makes no sense, and it's wholly unfair to Zelda. The SS Zelda is easily the best version of Zelda because she now has more personality and overall importance to Link than ever before. So what should we do - allows SS Zelda to truly shine in Smash, or just stay stuck with the past in OoT/TP, just because of Sheik? I'd rather have SS Zelda, thank you very much. There is a time for retro characters, and there's a time for current characters, but right now Zelda isn't a retro character, but a current character in need of a current redesign. Because of this, it makes even more sense to have Impa by Zelda's side than Sheik. By my knowledge, Sheik was NEVER planned for SS, so now the "relevancy" arguments falls apart. Impa is much more important to Zelda now than Sheik is, especially in SS. So let's allow Zelda and Impa to take center stage.

Also, Impa has more history with Zelda than Sheik.


Well, there you are. The truth is, if you all want Zelda to be a better character, then having Impa replace Sheik is really the only way to go about this. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheik, but I like Zelda better, and I want Zelda to be better overall. Impa is the only way she can do that, unless you have Zelda as a solo character and Impa as a separate character... That's that.

This is actually pretty good reasoning.

Although, I have doubts Zelda will look exactly like her SS version, Link was kind of a mix of his TP and SS versions. They'll probably do something similar for Zelda.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Tingle is way too controversial as a character to be added to the roster, especially because of the creep factor. Not so much in Japan, but in the US, yeah, it's like everybody loves Tingle in Japan and everybody hates Tingle in the US. I just don't think Tingle has a chance, because his popularity is so highly divided. But of course, since Japan's priority > US's priority to Sakurai, who knows. Maybe Sakurai will listen to Japan's demands for Tingle more than US's demands against it. Oh well.

If those in the U.S. aren't happy with Tingle, at least they can beat him up.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Hi Divine! Welcome back. Although I swore you said you would be back in October upon mewtwo's reveal. Anyway, I agree with points 1 and 2. Sheik is certainly used more, and Zelda is stuck sucking.

However, I doubt she's getting updated to SS. Link is stuck in as a TP Link with some primary colors similar to SS. I expect the same for Zelda. So Sheik might just stay with an updated look.

Personally, I love sheik. But I don't want her gone. They could try to make Zelda viable, but I'd be fine if Impa gets her own slot as a direct clone of Sheik with Sheik getting cut. As long as they keep the whole Sheikah idea.

Welcome back!

Thanks!

I said I would be back in October for the Wii U Discussion page. Not the SSB4 Character Discussion page. That said, I've been on my best behavior, and I got unbanned for good services, which means I'm back. Hopefully, there will be no more trouble.

Here's the interesting thing here with Zelda and Sheik - SS and the remake OoT have had recent presence within these past few years, and in fact both of these universe are going to be in the next SSB game the question is - will Sakurai go for Zelda in her SS form and remove Sheik (or keep him/her in SS form) or a hybrid of OoT/TP/SS for Zelda and Sheik? That's what I want to know.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Wait a minute Divine. Take back what I said about agreeing with Point 2. I think Impa does have great potential as a character, but I'd rather have her as her own separate character, not a part of Zelda's moveset.

And what you just replied to me: I see Sakurai making a hybrid of the 3 games. I would be fine with Impa, but Sheik will always be in a special place in my heart. I think they should just clean it up and make using the two together a lot better. EX. Speed up transformation and actually make both of them good. At least mid-tier good for Zelda.

 

[?????????????]

Ugh. I hate thinking of cutting characters. I don't want anyone cut! And I have no idea who would be the ones cut!

Speaking of which, Pizza, I saw your video. Very well done, and very well put together. I like at the end of you talking about cutting characters. That's basically my stance right now, too. I feel like cuts are very probable, but I have no idea whatsoever who it would be.

Oh, thank you!

 

[Pacack]

The conductor model with the same polygon count as the character in the actual DS is the same art-style as a 128-bit, outlined Toon Link? I don't think so, buddy. Conductor Link looks vastly different from the playable characters, much as how 8-bit DK looked vastly different from the playable characters in Brawl. Unless you're prepared to justify why they wouldn't use Toon Link's actual green outfit he uses for most the game if Toon Link really was outright cut, you have no basis for your claim.

I applaud your counterargument, sir. I must still disagree, however.

This Conductor Toon Link and the other Toon Link have as much in common (if not more in common) as Twilight Princess Link and Ocarina of Time Link. Would you include Ocarina of Time Link as a stage element when Twilight Princess Link is a playable character? No, you probably wouldn't. Because, in the end, they are both Links with a similar, realistic art style. In parallel are the Toon Links. Both are using a "toon" cell-shaded art style, but one is simply more detailed than the other. As for why they didn't simply use Toon Link's green outfit for the conductor...it's because he's conducting a train. Art decision there.

 

[Deleted member]

Guess who's back, and better than ever.

Anyways, I think it's time for Sheik to retire to the great beyond in Skyloft. Yeah, yeah, I know Sheik's a fan favorite and all, but when you stop and think about it... there's no other logical way going about it. It's a reasonable conclusion to be made, and you'll see why in a second. After years of services, it's time for Sheik to retire and let Zelda truly shine on her own. Now, you may ask, what about Zelda and her moveset? Well, no need to rustle your jimmies just yet, because there really is only one suitable replacement for Sheik's status as Zelda's personal bodyguard/protector.....

Impa.

Yes, that's what I said, and will continue to say until the end of time (see what I did there ). Impa is really the ONLY reasonable and logical conclusion, and this is the truth, in order to make Zelda a better character overall. My reasons are as follows:


1. Sheik is holding back Zelda
Let's face the truth of the matter - whenever you're watching the competitive scene with Zelda in Melee or Brawl, all you EVER see is everybody playing as Sheik - never Zelda. I'm not lying in this. Sheik's moveset does not mesh well with Zelda's because they are unbalanced. Sheik basically ruins Zelda as a playable character the same way ZZS ruins Samus as a playable character - why play as this character when you can play a better one? Therefore, in order for Zelda to even consider herself as competitive, she needs to get rid of Sheik as fast as possible, throw him/her to the curb. With Impa, there is more potential to balance out the strengths and weaknesses of both characters, because they are so intertwined with each other that it makes sense for them to have chemistry, in the same way the Ice Climbers or PKMN Trainer's Pokemon are - because they work well together. Sheik and Zelda DOES NOT, and this has already been proven. However, we have yet to see if Zelda and Impa can fix the problems caused by Sheik, so it's still speculation, bu nonethless it still makes logical sense that they would work together. Because of this, and there's no way of going about it elsewhere, you can have both Zelda and Impa be pretty evened out with each other movesets and therefore mesh well together.

2. Impa has great potential as a character
Think about this - if Zelda had a counterpart that, instead of going against her moveset, actually helped it out. That's where Impa comes into play. Impa already has a steady use of magic in her arsenal and jumping/aerial techniques, so she wouldn't feel out of place with Zelda. Sheik feels out of place with shurikens, chains, and ninja like moves, which make NO SENSE when compared to Zelda. It's like two completely DIFFERENT characters, like two politicians who have DIFFERENT agendas instead of working together . Impa's moves would actually makes sense with Zelda, kind of like how Roy and Marth would get along as a team better than Roy and Link. Through this, Zelda and Impa would allow each other to work together as an effective team, rather than rely on Sheik as a solo, because Zelda and Sheik would be like the PKMN Trainer in that you need to rely on their strengths and weaknesses by constantly switching out. In truth, Impa and Zelda, when you truly think about it, make a better team then Zelda and Sheik. Just have them work together, use the PKMN Trainer as an example of balancing, and make sure they play differently yet also similarly.

3. Zelda needs to be updated to her current Skyward Sword form
Uh-huh, uh-huh... the same people who argue against "MUH RELEVENCY" are the same people who argue for "MUH TRADITION" Seriously, why should Zelda, who is now in her SS form, stay stuck forever in the past of OoT/TP JUST BECAUSE of one other character, who is now outdated and irrelevant? It makes no sense, and it's wholly unfair to Zelda. The SS Zelda is easily the best version of Zelda because she now has more personality and overall importance to Link than ever before. So what should we do - allows SS Zelda to truly shine in Smash, or just stay stuck with the past in OoT/TP, just because of Sheik? I'd rather have SS Zelda, thank you very much. There is a time for retro characters, and there's a time for current characters, but right now Zelda isn't a retro character, but a current character in need of a current redesign. Because of this, it makes even more sense to have Impa by Zelda's side than Sheik. By my knowledge, Sheik was NEVER planned for SS, so now the "relevancy" arguments falls apart. Impa is much more important to Zelda now than Sheik is, especially in SS. So let's allow Zelda and Impa to take center stage.

Also, Impa has more history with Zelda than Sheik.


Well, there you are. The truth is, if you all want Zelda to be a better character, then having Impa replace Sheik is really the only way to go about this. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheik, but I like Zelda better, and I want Zelda to be better overall. Impa is the only way she can do that, unless you have Zelda as a solo character and Impa as a separate character... That's that.

You know something Divine, bravo~!

You really impressed me with that, keep it up. And not cause you took my side, but because you gave a carefully thought out post explaining your opinion on the issue. Just, don't take it personally when people disagree with you, many people can't take the idea of Sheik going cause they cling to tradition.

I will say one thing though, Zelda can be better with Sheik staying, as PM shows us, however, she'll never reach her potentian unless A) the concept is redone, or B) She's seperated from Sheik.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't cling to Sheik because of Sheik, I just think the idea of replacing a character for no particular reason with an exact replica of the predecessor's moveset is just flat out redundant and pointless. Can't we just have Impa as a separate entity, is that just way too hard to ask for?

Also lol at people thinking that getting rid of Sheik is going to automatically solve every problem Zelda has. Just saying, the problem with Zelda is Zelda. Hard concept, but you'll understand eventually.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

I don't cling to Sheik because of Sheik, I just think the idea of replacing a character for no particular reason with an exact replica of the predecessor's moveset is just flat out redundant and pointless. Can't we just have Impa as a separate entity, is that just way too hard to ask for?

Also lol at people thinking that getting rid of Sheik is going to automatically solve every problem Zelda has. Just saying, the problem with Zelda is Zelda. Hard concept, but you'll understand eventually.

The problem with Zelda is that she's too sexy, so no one takes her seriously.

 

[TumblrFamous]

You know something Divine, bravo~!
View attachment 2571


You really impressed me with that, keep it up. And not cause you took my side, but because you gave a carefully thought out post explaining your opinion on the issue. Just, don't take it personally when people disagree with you, many people can't take the idea of Sheik going cause they cling to tradition.

I will say one thing though, Zelda can be better with Sheik staying, as PM shows us, however, she'll never reach her potentian unless A) the concept is redone, or B) She's seperated from Sheik.

Take his advice Divine. I for one love the idea of Zelda/Sheik and love Sheik as a player, so that's why I still want her in. But I do agreethat I think the whole transformation process can be redone to favor both characters.

On that note, I'm off to get some sushi with the family. Divine, you are so far doing well. Don't let me down! Just do what ManlySpirit said. People will disagree. Just don't lash out at them for their opinions.

Smell ya later!