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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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kingmario92

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Alternate Palettes those are. Alternates costumes are like what Wario has (Classic Wario and Biker Wario). THAT'S something SSB4 needs to try and expand upon.
 

Rebellious Treecko

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Wow.... chill out...

I don't expect this change of topic to last long before people start hate-quoting, but...

Retro stages, what would yall like to see? And no, they don't HAVE to come with characters attatched.


I'd really like Extcitebike, Waverace, Urban Champion, Nazo no Murasame, StarTropics, Hoogan's Alley, and Balloon Fight stages.
Urban Champion, without a doubt.

I'd like alternate costumes, but I don't think Sakurai approves of them too much. (if I recall)

----
 

God Robert's Cousin

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Yes, and that confirms that Eevee is the very first pokemon to be obtainable in every single generation thus far, something not even Pikachu has been able to do as it was not obtainable in any of Generation 5.
Except you couldn't get Eevee in R/S/E... But you know who you can get in every main hand-held Pokemon game?


Sexy Zubat confirmed for SSB4.
 

TumblrFamous

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Wait, how does Sakurai feel about costumes? I mean we have costumes of Dark Link, Daisy, Wario, Clause, Leif, Louie, Blood Falcon, Dark Pit, Waluigi, Dixie, and Classic Link.
Those aren't really costumes though. Except the Wario one. The rest are just different colors. For example, having Link and then giving him the Zora armor. Or lets say having Martha and giving him a Lucina costume. Those types of things are the type of stuff Sakurai doesn't want.
 

mimgrim

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Pikachu doesn't always stand on all fours and Ivysaur has vines, though you do have a point those characters are simply somewhat different from eevee who neither has the reach given from vines nor does he have the elemental abilities of pikachu, he is a normal type and his movepool is limited and bland :p and if you mention jigglypuff well jigglypuff's... Also different. Jesus I'm making an *** of myself.
*sigh* Those Pokemon only seem to work now because they have already been done. It's not my fault you are incredibly closed minded and can't think of ways for Eevee to work. And ebing on all fours doesn't matter. Pika has incredibly short arms and feet meaning that if Pike had never gotten in people would have doubted it's potiental to be able to fight in the game. Same goes for Ivy, as it only seems obvious now however how many people pre-Brawl would have said Ivy would work before PT was revealed?
 

Hotfeet444

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Wait, how does Sakurai feel about costumes? I mean we have costumes of Dark Link, Daisy, Wario, Clause, Leif, Louie, Blood Falcon, Dark Pit, Waluigi, Dixie, and Classic Link.
He feels as if costumes that actually change the character in more ways than that of a different colored version takes away from the character and the impact they have on the game. Also, all those colors are basically just color changes, not actual new costumes. It's not like Link had a Zora armor costume or anything, just a blue tunic. It's not like he was Fierce Deity Link, just a light silver/white tunic. He seems to prefer representing through colors than actual costumes. I don't know why Wario is the special occasion though, maybe because it's still the same character even if it's a costume change.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Yea I did but I don't comment on rosters to much.
This is revenge for me not commenting on your rely isn't it? I didn't knoooooow. :cry:

And what about Sylveon? Sylveon has the extra appendages and it's seen to be pretty variable in attacks.
Puttin your actual roster aside, Sylveon IS a decent prediction with being a Fairy Pokemon, an Anime short, and a form of Eevee. But here are the problems:

  • JigglyPuff is a fairy Pokemon so people will want her over Sylveon
  • Mewtwo can represent gen 6 as well as Pokeballs can represent gen 6.
I think Genesect is the more popular and hot pokemon right now as well as in the Anime. And he transitions between Gen 5 & 6 pretty well.

Alternate Palettes those are. Alternates costumes are like what Wario has (Classic Wario and Biker Wario). THAT'S something SSB4 needs to try and expand upon.
Villager needs a girl set and Bowser needs a Dry set.
 

MargnetMan23

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And what about Sylveon? Sylveon has the extra appendages and it's seen to be pretty variable in attacks.
OK pick one or the other because both characters have different problems! In all honestly, Sylveon fits in better then eevee but there are some minor issues there, it would be like having Hitmontop in melee (well to be fair, if the hitmon line was actually popular and important) But quick question, have we ever seen sylveon fight with them in any official gameplay footage/from that short? Because I'm under the impression they just blow in the wind. The only thing holding Sylveon back is competition with mewtwo, Lucario, Jigglypuff, and to a lesser extent genesect and I do think that the first 3 would beat Sylv out.
 

mimgrim

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OK pick one or the other because both characters have different problems! In all honestly, Sylveon fits in better then eevee but there are some minor issues there, it would be like having Hitmontop in melee (well to be fair, if the hitmon line was actually popular and important) But quick question, have we ever seen sylveon fight with them in any official gameplay footage/from that short? Because I'm under the impression they just blow in the wind. The only thing holding Sylveon back is competition with mewtwo, Lucario, Jigglypuff, and to a lesser extent genesect and I do think that the first 3 would beat Sylv out.
You assume it matters to smash whether or not Sylveon uses ribbons in X/Y when Smash has never cared about canon of other games.
 

kingmario92

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Villager needs a girl set and Bowser needs a Dry set.

Which are alternate costumes. Changing colors around on someones outfit is not an alternate costume. Other alternate costume ideas would be Dr. Mario for Mario (Duh!), an ACTUAL Fusion Suit for Samus, and maybe a Louie or Alph appearance for Olimar.
 

KingofPhantoms

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Those aren't really costumes though. Except the Wario one. The rest are just different colors. For example, having Link and then giving him the Zora armor. Or lets say having Martha and giving him a Lucina costume. Those types of things are the type of stuff Sakurai doesn't want.
Actually, the Daisy palette was pretty close to a costume in Melee, it was designed to look like her dress, and there were many other details to the costume other than the dress itself.
 

MargnetMan23

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*sigh* Those Pokemon only seem to work now because they have already been done. It's not my fault you are incredibly closed minded and can't think of ways for Eevee to work. And ebing on all fours doesn't matter. Pika has incredibly short arms and feet meaning that if Pike had never gotten in people would have doubted it's potiental to be able to fight in the game. Same goes for Ivy, as it only seems obvious now however how many people pre-Brawl would have said Ivy would work before PT was revealed?
Clearly we must all bow down to the all powerful sand attack, even if he could work he DEFINITELY has a lot less going for him as far as move potential goes compared to those other guys. It's not as much that I can't see how he could work, I can't see how they could make it interesting without some overly complicated eeveelution bs
 

shinhed-echi

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Alternate Palettes those are. Alternates costumes are like what Wario has (Classic Wario and Biker Wario). THAT'S something SSB4 needs to try and expand upon.

To be honest, I think Sakurai stated his dislike about charging for Alternate Costumes, not costumes themselves.
But that's most likely why he won't focus on them, because they're time consuming, and he most likely wants to finish characters, stages, game mechanics first.

To be honest, I'm alright with this stance.
 

Hotfeet444

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Except you couldn't get Eevee in R/S/E... But you know who you can get in every main hand-held Pokemon game?


Sexy Zubat confirmed for SSB4.
Well, you couldn't get Zubat in Black/White, and there's no confirmation for X/Y, I'm just saying it's the first, but it definitely won't be the last. By the way, while not obtainable in those games, it was obtainable in FireRed/LeafGreen, and actually, it would have been in the Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald titles if not for Colosseum, and Game Freak not wanting fans to breed Eevees before the release of FireRed/LeafGreen, which is why your Umbreon and Espeon are both male.

This is revenge for me not commenting on your rely isn't it? I didn't knoooooow. :cry:



Puttin your actual roster aside, Sylveon IS a decent prediction with being a Fairy Pokemon, an Anime short, and a form of Eevee. But here are the problems:

  • JigglyPuff is a fairy Pokemon so people will want her over Sylveon
  • Mewtwo can represent gen 6 as well as Pokeballs can represent gen 6.
I think Genesect is the more popular and hot pokemon right now as well as in the Anime. And he transitions between Gen 5 & 6 pretty well.



Villager needs a girl set and Bowser needs a Dry set.
Genesect doesn't exactly have any importance in the anime persay, more just the new movie. But I won't doubt Genesect, ever since Black 2/White 2 release and being available as the new downloadable pokemon at the time, its popularity skyrocketed, but it depends if Sakurai wants to double-represent the new movie.
 

mimgrim

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Clearly we must all bow down to the all powerful sand attack, even if he could work he DEFINITELY has a lot less going for him as far as move potential goes compared to those other guys. It's not as much that I can't see how he could work, I can't see how they could make it interesting without some overly complicated eeveelution bs
Every character has moveset potiental. All you have to do is think outside of the box about it. Eevee has a head, paws, and a tail to do attacks with and a plentiful amount of special it could use.



(just joking, I'm more towards him being a costume)
Are side Mario games even apart of canon? lol
 

TheCreator

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Holy moly Noah unblocked Hotfeet.
Anyways, I'm gonna post a roster. I can't figure out how to use a roster maker though, and I don't want to burden anybody with that. So we're gonna do this the old fashioned way...

Mario:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.

Metroid:
Samus
Ridley

Pokémon:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo/Awakened form
Lucario
PT 1st gen

Kid Icarus:
Pit
Palutena

Dk:
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool

Kirby:
Kirby
King DeDeDe
Metaknight

Fire Emblem:
Marth
Ike
Chrom

Star Fox:
Fox
Wolf
Falco

Other:
Retro
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
R.O.B.
Mr. G&W
Ice Climbers
Isaac
C. Falcon

EarthBound:
Ness
Lucas

Third Party:
Sonic
Megaman
Pacman
Snake

In the dark:
Meaning I had no idea what to do because it is too early; I place Pikmin and LoZ here. As for LoZ, I'm 50/50 on Toon Link atm. So I don't know if I should put him, and continue the roster on that or not and go on that. If he's cut I add Tingle. If he's not, I probably would add Toon Zelda and/or Tingle. With Pikmin, we have yet to see Rock or Pink pikmin in his moveset. Whenever we see that they are, it will be just Olimar. But if he has no rock and pink pikmin, I add Alph.

I'm iffy on Isaac and have no idea who another retro would be, from a logical standpoint.

Help? Suggestions?
 

TheLastJinjo

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but it depends if Sakurai wants to double-represent the new movie.
Well Mewtwo is still Mewtwo, so he's a veteran regardless of form. and the new movie having Genesect heightens his chances to make him one of the most likely Smash reps if you ask me.

Also SaturnGamer64 is just my premium name, I'm still Noah :p

Are side Mario games even apart of canon? lol
That was my point lol
 

kingmario92

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To be honest, I think Sakurai stated his dislike about charging for Alternate Costumes, not costumes themselves.
But that's most likely why he won't focus on them, because they're time consuming, and he most likely wants to finish characters, stages, game mechanics first.

To be honest, I'm alright with this stance.

I'm not saying it's a top priority, I'm just saying I'd be nice if they did do that to a few of the other characters since they had something going there with Wario (My fav Smash char btw)
 

Rebellious Treecko

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Is it bad I know where that head is really from?
So....handsome.

Actually, the Daisy palette was pretty close to a costume in Melee, it was designed to look like her dress, and there were many other details to the costume other than the dress itself.
There was also Falcon's red costume, which made him look like Blood Falcon.

----
 

Hotfeet444

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Except you couldn't get Eevee in R/S/E... But you know who you can get in every main hand-held Pokemon game?


Sexy Zubat confirmed for SSB4.
Well, you couldn't get Zubat in Black/White, and there's no confirmation for X/Y, I'm just saying it's the first, but it definitely won't be the last. By the way, while not obtainable in those games, it was obtainable in FireRed/LeafGreen, and actually, it would have been in the Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald titles if not for Colosseum, and Game Freak not wanting fans to breed Eevees before the release of FireRed/LeafGreen, which is why your Umbreon and Espeon are both male.

This is revenge for me not commenting on your rely isn't it? I didn't knoooooow. :cry:



Puttin your actual roster aside, Sylveon IS a decent prediction with being a Fairy Pokemon, an Anime short, and a form of Eevee. But here are the problems:

  • JigglyPuff is a fairy Pokemon so people will want her over Sylveon
  • Mewtwo can represent gen 6 as well as Pokeballs can represent gen 6.
I think Genesect is the more popular and hot pokemon right now as well as in the Anime. And he transitions between Gen 5 & 6 pretty well.



Villager needs a girl set and Bowser needs a Dry set.
Genesect doesn't exactly have any importance in the anime persay, more just the new movie. But I won't doubt Genesect, ever since Black 2/White 2 release and being available as the new downloadable pokemon at the time, its popularity skyrocketed, but it depends if Sakurai wants to double-represent the new movie.

OK pick one or the other because both characters have different problems! In all honestly, Sylveon fits in better then eevee but there are some minor issues there, it would be like having Hitmontop in melee (well to be fair, if the hitmon line was actually popular and important) But quick question, have we ever seen sylveon fight with them in any official gameplay footage/from that short? Because I'm under the impression they just blow in the wind. The only thing holding Sylveon back is competition with mewtwo, Lucario, Jigglypuff, and to a lesser extent genesect and I do think that the first 3 would beat Sylv out.
Actually, it has been shown to have full control over its bows through the attack animations of X/Y, as well as the different designs seen in the Pokemon short. And also, I don't know about Jigglypuff being in higher regards than that of Eevee/Sylveon, especially since it almost feels as if Jiggs has fallen off the face of the planet. Other than a brief mention of being a new type, we haven't heard anything out of Jiggs in quite some time.
 

BKupa666

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Hey, I know this deviates a bit from the current topic (for better or for worse), but, as part of an article I've been asked to write, I was rereading this old thread about Sakurai's GDC 2008 presentation from a user in attendance. One tidbit of information jumped out at me that I had completely missed before is one that I think many of you will find quite illuminating about Brawl's development.

Thinkaman said:
3. The COMPLETE Roster was Finalized in 2006

The exception, actually, was Sonic. Sonic was not in the original complete roster, and was only added later in 2007 because he was the most demanded character and they were able to work it out with SEGA. Since he was so important and wanted, they were able to put in a lot of extra work and get him in.

Everyone else was in the game, at least in some state of readiness, in 2006. The original design document, the bible laid out by the designer by which ANY game is planned, included figurines in poses of EVERY MOVE IN THE GAME. That is how much in advance everyone had to be laid out.
Pay extra close attention to that second paragraph. In our current discussions, we'll often make light predictions about whether characters have been chosen by now, as well as whether a character's "chances" can still go up or down based on new developments. However, if this information is anything to go by, the vast majority of characters on the final SSB4 roster are very, very likely set in stone. I refer to the vast majority of the roster rather than all of it due to two existing precedents; if characters are prioritized again, the final few low priority characters may either squeeze in or miss out at the last minute, while unplanned characters like Melee's clones or Sonic may be added, based on the development schedule.

More food for thought to chew on...the above quote mentions posed figurines being used during the creation of the original design document. We have photographic confirmation that these figurines are being used again during this game's planning (or, at least, that Sakurai owns them and places them in poses that resemble attacks during his free time). These photos were posted on December 27, 2012 and October 20, 2012, respectively. Assuming that parallels exist between the development practices of Brawl and SSB4, it is entirely plausible that these dates were part of this timeframe of planning out character attacks, and thus, characters. I would bet that this phase began well before these dates, given that SSB4's development began after Uprising's release in March 2012, but this is anyone's guess.

Did I miss anything?
 

TheLastJinjo

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Yeah, I'm definitely going with Genesect as my 5th Pokemon rep

GET READY FOR ONE OF THE COOLEST SMASH CHARACTERS EVER, *******!!!!!!!!!!!!



Also, can we be entirely sure Sakurai was not allowed information of future titles before the roster was finalized? X & Y, Zelda U, The Mewtwo's Awakening Movie?

Sakurai stated he asks what the hottest Pokemon is when adding a new one, I'm pretty sure the Pokemon company would have told him about Genesect & Mewtwo's new movie.
 

MargnetMan23

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Actually, it has been shown to have full control over its bows through the attack animations of X/Y, as well as the different designs seen in the Pokemon short. And also, I don't know about Jigglypuff being in higher regards than that of Eevee/Sylveon, especially since it almost feels as if Jiggs has fallen off the face of the planet. Other than a brief mention of being a new type, we haven't heard anything out of Jiggs in quite some time.
I don't think Jiggs is going anywhere due to the all important role of n64 smash bros status, to me Jiggs perseveres from basically just being an important part of smash history with a large enough fanbase gathered for Sakurai to feel too comfortable removing even if she gets priority akin to how she was in brawl.
 

Silverjay323

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Hey, I know this deviates a bit from the current topic (for better or for worse), but, as part of an article I've been asked to write, I was rereading this old thread about Sakurai's GDC 2008 presentation from a user in attendance. One tidbit of information jumped out at me that I had completely missed before is one that I think many of you will find quite illuminating.



Pay extra close attention to that second paragraph. In our current discussions, we'll often make light predictions about whether characters have been chosen by now, as well as whether a character's "chances" can still go up or down based on new developments. However, if this information is anything to go by, the vast majority of characters on the final roster are very, very likely set in stone. I refer to the vast majority of the roster rather than all of it due to two existing precedents; if characters are prioritized again, the final few low priority characters may either squeeze in or miss out at the last minute, while unplanned characters like Melee's clones or Sonic may be added, based on the development schedule.

More food for thought to chew on...the above quote mentions posed figurines being used during the creation of the original design document. We have photographic confirmation that these figurines are being used again during this game's planning (or, at least, that Sakurai owns them and places them in poses that resemble attacks during his free time). These photos were posted on December 27, 2012 and October 20, 2012, respectively. Assuming that parallels exist between the development practices of Brawl and SSB4, it is entirely plausible that these dates were part of this timeframe of planning out character attacks, and thus, characters. I would bet that this phase began well before these dates, given that SSB4's development began after Uprising's release in March 2012, but this is anyone's guess.

Did I miss anything?
Meaning...6th gen rep aside from Mewtwo is unlikely, and we may have no late additions this time around, since they probably won't be on the same level as Sonic, and that's what DLC is being considered for. So basically the game is more far along in development than we thought?
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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You haven't even played B&W you nincompoop :p
No he's right you fool genesect did indeed gain his popularity on the event on black and white 2 and the movie helps big big time becauses he said which pokemon is in the latest movie and popular read how sakurai chooses pokemon genesect most likly pokemon newcomer as a matter of fact on my prediction roster I'm working on has genesect because of the blog about how he chooses pokemon
 

MargnetMan23

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Meaning...6th gen rep aside from Mewtwo is unlikely, and we may have no late additions this time around, since they probably won't be on the same level as Sonic, and that's what DLC is being considered for. So basically the game is more far along in development than we thought?
You do sort of have a point but if gamefreak tipped Sakurai on a character in advance they still could have a chance
 

kingmario92

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...Smashoperatingbuddt123, I never questioned Genesect's chances of making it in, I was just teasing him. I do believe Genesect has a great shot getting in thanks to the upcoming movie.
 

shinhed-echi

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Don't know if it's bias speaking, but there isn't ONE post Gen1 pokemon that I'd love to see as a playable character in SSB.
The closest one is Newtwo.

Also, question. I've never been exposed to alternate forms of Pokemon... but are these alternate forms numbered differently?
Or can we expect Newtwo to be #150?
 

TheLastJinjo

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No he's right you fool genesect did indeed gain his popularity on the event on black and white 2 and the movie helps big big time becauses he said which pokemon is in the latest movie and popular read how sakurai chooses pokemon genesect most likly pokemon newcomer as a matter of fact on my prediction roster I'm working on has genesect because of the blog about how he chooses pokemon
My friend was just joking around with me :)

You do sort of have a point but if gamefreak tipped Sakurai on a character in advance they still could have a chance
That's what I said, Sakurai checks with the Pokemon company to see who the hottest Pokemon is. That's how he adds characters. There's no way the Pokemon company wouldn't have told him about the new "Mewtwo's Awakening" movie. and when asked about adding Mewtwo Sakurai said "We're thinking about it."
 

Silverjay323

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The fact that we have actual gameplay demos and actual in-game footage of the game isn't blunt enough?
I was talking more about the 3ds version. Since we've seen no actual video of Megaman, WFT, and Villager on it, and with the trouble of making sure the Ice Climbers function properly, I assumed that they were still in the process of developing characters for it.
 
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