Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

Retro revival characters are a given, and Sakurai said pre Melee that IF Takamaru would get a new game, he'd most likely get into Smash.

Does a attraction in Nintendoland count?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, he's also got an appearance in Captain Rainbow, however it's also Japanese-only. Ad he appeared in a Samurai fighting game as a playable cameo, and his game is getting localized.

I think he's pretty damn likely.

 

[FourStar]

I love how Takamaru is not even talked about anymore even though there is a good chance he will make the game with the East vs West thing with little mac and takamaru

 

[FlareHabanero]

If you want an emphasis on east vs. west, the most logical thing would be The Mysterious Murasame Castle and Dillon's Rolling Western. There's also the concept of old vs. new and man vs. animal with that rivalry too.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Sheriff, Donkey Kong Jr., Sukopon, Starfy, Stan the Bugman, Duck Hunt Dog, Mach Rider.

DK Jr, Stanly The Bugman, Sukapon.....seriously? Two of those guys have to compete with K Rool and Dixie while the other was downed by Sakurai himself. Duck Hunt Dog isn't as likely as you'd like to believe and Sheriff could potentially be added with Takamaru. Honestly, Mach Rider is probably the only threat Takamaru truly has out of all the characters you listed.

If you want an emphasis on east vs. west, the most logical thing would be The Mysterious Murasame Castle and Dillon's Rolling Western. There's also the concept of old vs. new and man vs. animal with that rivalry too.

Cowboy vs Samurai.

 

[FourStar]

its sad when we think duck hunt characters are gonna be a contender for smash.....

 

[8-peacock-8]

its sad when we think duck hunt characters are gonna be a contender for smash.....

He'd be a joke character.

 

[FourStar]

He'd be a joke character.

there is no way he's gonna make it though

 

[8-peacock-8]

there is no way he's gonna make it though

True. Especially with the stiff competition for a retro rep. I'd love a Duck Hunt stage though. The Dog could be a hazard.

 

[FalKoopa]

I never liked the idea of Duck Hunt Dog as a character. But a stage is a good idea. He would laugh if anyone gets KO'ed.

there is no way he's gonna make it though

How can you be so sure?

 

[FourStar]

I never liked the idea of Duck Hunt Dog as a character. But a stage is a good idea. He would laugh if anyone gets KO'ed.


How can you be so sure?

hahaha like how halberd has a cannonballl or whatever hits you, a shot can be fired at you with the dog in the background. pretty sick i might say

 

[8-peacock-8]

I never liked the idea of Duck Hunt Dog as a character. But a stage is a good idea. He would laugh if anyone gets KO'ed.

Trying to find the footage of the Duck Hunt stage from Crusade.

 

[volbound1700]

We could have a character out of no where for Retro, that is usually the case.

 

[8-peacock-8]

We could have a character out of no where for Retro, that is usually the case.

Hence why i said that Sheriff was possible. Since he fits a role similar to that of MG&W and ROB. WTF, retro, and historical.

 

[N3ON]

We could have a character out of no where for Retro, that is usually the case.

Or we could have a popular character Nintendo is actively adding to their games again and finally releasing worldwide that Sakurai previously acknowledged as a possible future addition.

 

[volbound1700]

I honestly think Sheriff has the best chance of being the wtf Retro and Little Mac is in reality the retro game we want to revise (even though it kind of has been already on the Wii). We may get one after those two but I would be surprised.

 

[FourStar]

Sakurai is gonna surprise us. hopefully in a good way

 

[N3ON]

Little Mac isn't a retro character anymore. He wasn't the retro character Sakurai was referring to, as his series has already been revived.

 

[Deleted member]

Not really trying to argue or anything I just felt like mentioning my concerns. He's a candidate, I won't deny that, but I do think that people have recently started to overestimate him. As far as I can see all he has going for him is Sakurai having a slight bias during Melee's early development.

At the very least, it's something more than what most retro characters can claim at this point.

Much of the hopefulness for him seems to be weighted on Falcon, Pit, and ROB. Falcon, IMO, most of him getting in had to do with Dragon Fighter/64 tight development schedule and that F-Zero being a semi-important franchise at the time (on an unrelated note, wouldn't the F-Zero newcomers technically be competition for Mach Rider?).

IMO, I increasingly get less convinced that Dragon King had much influence on Falcon at all. I keep looking at the images, and none of the positions shown on the characters match Falcon's 64 animations.
When Sakurai said that Mach Rider was his hopeful for Smash 2, he also stated that Captain Falcon was his favorite character of the ones in Smash already. So I'm more willing to bet that C. Falcon got in due to Sakurai's bias for the character. (Lucky for us, eh?)

Pit (Takamaru too), I wouldn't put into the same category as Mach Rider due to being a much more notable character, one with a noted fanbase, and unarguably easier to implement into Smash given his platforming roots (seems more like a character Sakurai wanted to hold back on, possibly like Wario, given his statement on Takamaru).

His statement on Takamaru was that he would be seriously considered if Murasame Castle got a new game. Not sure how Wario or platforming in general relates to that. Especially since Murasame Castle isn't a platformer...
With that statement in mind, Murasame Castle never really did get a new game, just ports of the same game, cameos, and Murasame Mode on Samurai Warriors 3 (whether that counts as a new game to Sakurai or not remains to be seen). So wouldn't that mean that Takamaru is theoretically unlikely? (Not trying to argue against Takamaru, but that's a pretty big thing to consider)

With ROB, who knows, is a bit too out there to compare to any other Nintendo character IMO bar Mr. Game & Watch and possibly the Miis, especially since Sakurai has not given any statement found so far relating to the former two characters inclusion.

R.O.B., however, is an NES star, something Sakurai was looking for in Melee's development. So it stands to reason that R.O.B. would be one of the characters on the list Sakurai has made.

As far as I can tell, Mach Rider has much more in-common with the characters who were dismissed and many arguments for him assume too much and or are riding on the outstretched coattails of previously included characters who are sketchy in and of themselves.

That doesn't explain the Ice Climbers. They would be more comparable to the four mentioned (because like I said, there were others he didn't mention) dismissals. Namely comparable to the excuse given for Urban Champion in that they "put out too little". All the Climbers ever did was smash a hammer down. Now all of a sudden they are a pair of cryokinetics with all sorts of hammer attacks? How does that happen?
The excuses he gave in themselves were rather weak and illogical.
Balloon Fighter's "useless if balloons popped" excuse is both countered by the fact he can pump up more balloons and with Olimar, who is rather useless without any Pikmin in Brawl.
Bubbles' "doesn't know how to fight" excuse is countered by the fact she's stunning enemies with sonic waves and ramming into them, as well as R.O.B., who wasn't designed for fighting both in-game and in real life.
Excitebiker's "would require ramps for every stage" excuse is countered by Wheelies from Kirby and as of recent, Roaders from the SSE, both with the capability to inexplicably jump. These creations were made by Sakurai.

It goes to wonder what his excuses for other characters were....(Warning, much speculation ahead)
Perhaps Fighter Hayabusa wouldn't work because grappling styles aren't as feasible in Smash as they are in other fighters.
Maybe Mike Jones was too obscure since StarTropics was never released in Japan.
Popeye was a licensed character, so he could have been too much of a hassle to include.
R.O.B. may not have had much to offer for fighting in his eyes.
Foreman Spike (who was seen as a NES star rather than a Mario character on Sakurai's pre-Melee poll) might have been out of the running due to Wrecking Crew '98.
Pit's wings were probably too hard to implement at the time.
Tamagon was from a controversial "religious" game not released in North America and had no arms.
Donbe and Hikari might have been "too foreign". (Same with Takamaru)
The Duck Hunt Dog may not have made sense as a combatant.
Etc.
There's just many a time I want to go inside Sakurai's head. To see how the man thinks.

As another reminder these are just my own personal concerns and I am not trying to directly argue against Mach Rider. Given that both of what you have argued and my concerns are nothing more than assumptions and personal opinions. You are welcome to try and clear my doubts, but I am not interested in letting this go on for much longer or letting it get out of hand should it continue.

And I am not trying to attack your concerns, so I hope you don't feel I am. If you are not willing to continue this discussion after much longer though, I will respect your wishes and leave it at this post.

Am going to bed right now so I'll look at and responses to this when I'm done oversleeping (I have bad sleeping habits ). Been awhile since I've had a good debate (even if it is all just assumptions and personal opinion) so thanks for that.

No problem. And thank you as well. It's also been a while since I had a good debate with someone. We may disagree with each other's viewpoints, but we're at least able to discuss them like gentlemen.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Or we could have a popular character Nintendo is actively adding to their games again and finally releasing worldwide that Sakurai previously acknowledged as a possible future addition.

Little Mac isn't a retro character anymore. He wasn't the retro character Sakurai was referring to, as his series has already been revived.

These.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Everyone stop calling Little Mac a retro character!

He's not one anymore.

 

[volbound1700]

I no doubt believe Takamaru has a chance, I just disagree his chances are on the same level as Mewtwo, Megaman, or King K Rool. I consider him unlikely since he was a one game wonder released only in US. Also many classic games are being released on VC. This is all based on the Nintendo Land hype and Nintendo Land really didn't do all that well.

Now if the quote stating he wanted Takamaru in the game is true that makes me lean more towards Takamaru. My biggest issue with Takamaru is why wasn't he at least an AT or trophy in Brawl? Has he made an appearance in any form in past Smash games?

 

[FourStar]

hopefully sakurai make one of the retro characters bad ass. Like Takamaru would probably be so sick

 

[8-peacock-8]

I no doubt believe Takamaru has a chance, I just disagree his chances are on the same level as Mewtwo, Megaman, or King K Rool. I consider him unlikely since he was a one game wonder released only in US. Also many classic games are being released on VC. This is all based on the Nintendo Land hype and Nintendo Land really didn't do all that well.

1. Takamaru's game was Japan only. Not US only. Your thinking of Mike Jones.

2. A lot of the possible retro choices are one game wonders.

 

[volbound1700]

8-peacock-8, yeah typo. I meant Japan only release. Most the retros were from games popular in their time or iconic to Nintendo (G&W and ROB).

 

[FalKoopa]

8-peacock-8, yeah typo. I meant Japan only release. Most the retros were from games popular in their time or iconic to Nintendo (G&W and ROB).

NES Kid Icarus wasn't really popular. Otherwise it probably would have been a long-running series along with Metroid, Zelda, Kirby and Mario.

 

[N3ON]

I no doubt believe Takamaru has a chance, I just disagree his chances are on the same level as Mewtwo, Megaman, or King K Rool. I consider him unlikely since he was a one game wonder released only in US. Also many classic games are being released on VC. This is all based on the Nintendo Land hype and Nintendo Land really didn't do all that well.

As he's competing for the "retro spot" and not a regular spot on the roster, his competition isn't really those three you listed, more along the lines of Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider. Also, one game can be all it takes to be included, ask Ice Climbers, but he has also had several recent appearances, some in high-profile games like Nintendo Land (which has done well - nobody should've expected it to be the next Wii Sports, but for what it is, it's done well), and is one of the few characters that can have a "series revival" like Pit, which is what Sakurai stated this upcoming retro would be. Also, his game came out in Japan only, not US only. That's a big difference for Smash. And yeah, normally VC releases aren't the biggest deal, but when the game has never been released outside Japan, and Nintendo is picking now to do it, it shouldn't go unnoticed.

Now if the quote stating he wanted Takamaru in the game is true that makes me lean more towards Takamaru. My biggest issue with Takamaru is why wasn't he at least an AT or trophy in Brawl? Has he made an appearance in any form in past Smash games?

You don't need a huge appearance in a past Smash game to be playable in a future Smash game. The landscape can change for a character. Since Brawl, Takamaru has had three new appearances, which is quite an achievement for an obscure retro like him. That said, he was a sticker in Brawl and got one song.

 

[Alex Night]

Personally, I don't think that Palutena should be a playable character because she is considered a God in Kid Icarus. I would though love to see Mega Man in the game as a playable character if Sonic is coming back as a playable character. I've always wanted to see which blue hero would win in a Death Battle. That personally, is a much cooler matchup than Mario vs Sonic imo. The reason why I say that is because both heroes have a title with Blue attached to it like for Sonic: The Blue Blur and Mega Man: The Blue Bomber. Also, both heroes are part of a resistance dedicated to stopping an evil tyrannical robotic genius from taking over the world with their evil robots.

I also hope that Smash Bros 4 can have updates to the game with patches and such in the case that some rebalancing needs to be done, but I doubt that will happen...

Also, since Tecmo Bandai are in on the SSB4 project, I will also put in a suggestion for just 1 additional character that they need to put in the roster... Goku! That is all...

 

[FourStar]

i hope they don't get rid of snake or sonic

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Takamaru is very likely now. His game is coming on the VC now.

When did this happen?

And yeah, Takamaru's a contender, sure, but I wouldn't think a very high probable one.

 

[N3ON]

Personally, I don't think that Palutena should be a playable character because she is considered a God in Kid Icarus.

Canon strength/power don't transfer to Smash. Just ask Ganondorf. She'd obviously be balanced (or intended to be balanced... Sakurai).

I also hope that Smash Bros 4 can have updates to the game with patches and such in the case that some rebalancing needs to be done, but I doubt that will happen...

Who knows, with Namco working on it, and considering Nintendo has done the occasional patch, it could be possible. Don't give up hope yet.

Also, since Tecmo Bandai are in on the SSB4 project, I will also put in a suggestion for just 1 additional character that they need to put in the roster... Goku! That is all...

First of all, lol Goku. Second, Namco is working on Smash, not Tecmo.

 

[Alex Night]

Oh, whooops. XD I've got my information wrong about the developers working on the game. My bad then, Sorry Goku.... You'll just have to settle for Superman...

Yeah, but isn't Palutena like 50 stories tall? XD I can understand Ganondorf because he is just a very powerful sorcerer, not a god by any means. Besides, Palutena doesn't need to take matters into her own hands when she can just boss Pit for that. lol

Anyways, that's my two cents.

 

[FourStar]

Oh, whooops. XD I've got my information wrong about the developers working on the game. My bad then, Sorry Goku.... You'll just have to settle for Superman...

Yeah, but isn't Palutena like 50 stories tall? XD I can understand Ganondorf because he is just a very powerful sorcerer, not a god by any means. Besides, Palutena doesn't need to take matters into her own hands when she can just boss Pit for that. lol

Anyways, that's my two cents.

but thats the same thing as ridley cuz he's ****ing huge.

 

[FalKoopa]

Oh, whooops. XD I've got my information wrong about the developers working on the game. My bad then, Sorry Goku.... You'll just have to settle for Superman...

Yeah, but isn't Palutena like 50 stories tall? XD I can understand Ganondorf because he is just a very powerful sorcerer, not a god by any means. Besides, Palutena doesn't need to take matters into her own hands when she can just boss Pit for that. lol

Anyways, that's my two cents.

You're not guessing her size from her appearance in Pit's Final Smash, are you?

If that's the case, I suggest you to go read Pit's page on Brawl's Dojo.

 

[Curious Villager]

They can always make up an excuse like "For the sake of all her opponents. Palutena promised to not use her full powers." or something along those lines...

I mean they made more powerful characters like Mewtwo and Ganondorf weaker in smash. They can do the same with Palutena just fine. (Of course not to the point of being utter trash, mind)

 

[N3ON]

Oh, whooops. XD I've got my information wrong about the developers working on the game. My bad then, Sorry Goku.... You'll just have to settle for Superman...

Well, Bandai is still working on the game, and they make the DBZ games. I mean, he's not going to happen, but it's still the right company.

Yeah, but isn't Palutena like 50 stories tall? XD I can understand Ganondorf because he is just a very powerful sorcerer, not a god by any means. Besides, Palutena doesn't need to take matters into her own hands when she can just boss Pit for that. lol

She can change size.

She's also shown to be able to fight, so yeah... she could just boss Pit around, but what fun is that?

And I was just using Ganondorf to show canon power doesn't necessarily make for the best character.

 

[Alex Night]

You're not guessing her size from her appearance in Pit's Final Smash, are you?

If that's the case, I suggest you to go read Pit's page on Brawl's Dojo.

.......................................Maybe.... XD I don't know much about the Kid Icarus universe other than that she is the ruler of Skyworld and a watchful mentor for Pit who is her champion. Although, I still stand on the fact that she IS a goddess. I mean, we might as well as bring the goddess Hylia into Smash. Anyways, I just don't think that she is necessary in Smash 4 and I don't wish to rain on anybody's parade. I am still vying for Mega Man though. I want my Sonic vs Mega Man battle!

 

[BluePikmin11]

.......................................Maybe.... XD I don't know much about the Kid Icarus universe other than that she is the ruler of Skyworld and a watchful mentor for Pit who is her champion. Although, I still stand on the fact that she IS a goddess. I mean, we might as well as bring the goddess Hylia into Smash. Anyways, I just don't think that she is necessary in Smash 4 and I don't wish to rain on anybody's parade. I am still vying for Mega Man though. I want my Sonic vs Mega Man battle!

All you need to know is that KI:U gave her personality.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Palutena is human sized in the single SSE cutscene that she appeared in. Lol

 

[Frostwraith]

Palutena may be a goddess, but her personality fits well into Smash. Like Kiwi said, she could simply not use the full extent of her godly powers during fights.