Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Godzillathewonderdog]

He makes it clear that he doesn't want to cut anyone, so why would he completely remake on old characters moveset and give it to a new character? That doesn't make any sense. Also I doubt Sakurai would remove such a unique attribute of a character.

 

[Kenith]

I'd just like to say that the reason Impa seems more significant than Sheik is because Skyward Sword is much more story-oriented than Ocarina of Time, or any other Zelda game for that matter.
In Skyward Sword the events were entirely character driven.

Link went on his quest to save Zelda. Ghirahim took Zelda to revive Demise. Impa protected Zelda because of role as the servant of the goddess. Demise wanted the Triforce.

The characters in Ocarina of Time are much more idle. Ganondorf does nothing most of the story. Sheik and Link are the only active characters, and even Sheik's role is limited.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

please all she did was play music teacher for a few hours and gave you pointless information on the triforce and all that bull**** that no-one cares about

Tumblr already explained it, and you disregarded practically everything he said.

If Zelda hadn't become Sheik, she wouldn't have been able to avoid Ganondorf. That's why she got captured after revealing herself. Tumblr said that already, I'm only saying it again because you ignored it completely.

The songs Sheik teaches make traveling incredibly easy, and without Sheik, you'd have no way of getting to the Spirit Temple as a Child, which is mandatory.

Sheik was also there when Bongo Bongo was released from the well in Kakariko Village trying to defend it, and saved Princess Ruto from being frozen underwater. There is a lot more to Sheik's importance in Ocarina of Time than you give him/her credit for.

so he's no more important that ghirahim or zant

I'm done with this crap......

 

[TheLastJinjo]

please all she did was play music teacher for a few hours and gave you pointless information on the triforce and all that bull**** that no-one cares about

That's your excuse?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

literally everybody got a sticker though except vaati, they obviously either forgot or didn't care

Refer to Crusher's post. It completely destroys your point.

 

[Deleted member]

Link is literally Toon Link, then. Zelda is based off her TP look. Sheik didn't appear in Twilight Princess, yet they are the same person in Brawl. Brawl's characters don't care about continuity. They could be separated with Sakurai saying "they are now different people" and it would not be untrue because Smash Bros. is not canon, therefore Sheik could be separated if Sakurai willed it to be.

Have you even played WW? Or any Zelda game for that matter? TL and Link are two completely different people.

Everything else you said was pure bullocks though. There's really no point in refuting it because you're clearly deluded, and honestly, I'm gonna stop deliberating with you very soon.

Ness was almost replaced by Lucas, but Mother 3 was delayed, everybody knows that.

You're ****ing idiot, no he wasn't.

Marth wasn't the face of Fire Emblem before Melee.

Again, you're a ****ing idiot, and have no idea what you're talking about.

Jigglypuff was almost cut? [citation needed]

Go ask Yuii for it, he has the info. It was something to do with the data in Brawl and how Jiggs is the last character in all the files, as well as the last character to be unlocked and such. It all pretty much implies she was a last minute addition, which is strange for a vet.

 

[andimidna]

Where was the Rosalina trophy/sticker?

Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer debuted in late 2007 during Brawls debug testing. Plus Rosalina was unimportant at the time. She has been in like 6 games since brawl. And her popularity has increased a lot. Vaati has had 0 games since brawl, so his importance didn't grow like Rosalina's. in fact it dropped slightly. But his popularity has dropped much more. 3 out of 4 newcomers had a game in 2013 and the 4th was third party

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Always *****ing about something here

And what exactly are you doing right now? Because is sounds like you're ******** and throwing out childish insults. People are gonna complain on this thread. Especially me. A LOT. So Get use to it.

 

[andimidna]

Where was the Rosalina trophy/sticker?

Rosalina and Wii Fit Trainer debuted in late 2007 during Brawls debug testing. Plus Rosalina was unimportant at the time. She has been in like 6 games since brawl. And her popularity has increased a lot. Vaati has had 0 games since brawl, so his importance didn't grow like Rosalina's. in fact it dropped slightly. But his popularity has dropped much more. 3 out of 4 newcomers had a game in 2013 and the 4th was third party

 

[Sonicguy726]

Tumblr already explained it, and you disregarded practically everything he said.

If Zelda hadn't become Sheik, she wouldn't have been able to avoid Ganondorf.

And who trained her to become sheik impa an actual sheikah who could represent the concept of the sheikah better

 

[Deleted member]

Sheik did NOTHING? Oh, let me largely disagree with you.

Her very character is what got Ganondorf off her tracks. She was trained by the Sheikah in order to be prepared for the challenges she had to face helping Link awaken the other sages. She told Link how to get to multiple necessary places, taught him songs that helped him get him places, and gave him information on the history of the triforce and Hyrule.

Unimportant? Don't think so. If you took her out of the game, it would have made a difference. It's like taking the Happy Mask Salesman out of Majora's Mask.

Compared to all the feats Impa has done...

At best, Sheik has played a supporting role in shaping the Zelda canon, and only in one instance, Impa has played a supporting role multiple times, and can be credited with a lot more, especially with SS, where she plays an active role in the canon, again putting her way above all other characters outside of the main three in terms of importance. I'd say perhaps Vaati ties with her, but that's it.

 

[TumblrFamous]

And who trained her to become sheik impa an actual sheikah who could represent the concept of the sheikah better

Well, if Sakurai wanted to include a better representative for a Sheikah, he would have added Impa in Melee instead of Sheik. But no, he decided to include the character that was very important to the game to make for a very unique, interesting character. Honestly, Impa in OoT was no more important than Saria. And look what happened to her.

Compared to all the feats Impa has done...

At best, Sheik has played a supporting role in shaping the Zelda canon, and only in one instance, Impa has played a supporting role multiple times, and can be credited with a lot more, especially with SS, where she plays an active role in the canon, again putting her way above all other characters outside of the main three in terms of importance. I'd say perhaps Vaati ties with her, but that's it.

I do agree that Impa has gotten a very prominent role in SS, but I still believe that it would still make no sense to get rid of Sheik and add Impa as her replacement, even when Sakurai said he's not cutting any characters out of the way.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

And what exactly are you doing right now? Because is sounds like you're *****ing and throwing out childish insults.

What exactly am I doing just now? I'm pointing the obvious facts out about how immature you sound on here. Causing wars for no reason, constantly bashing others because they don't "agree" with your reasons on said characters, and you constantly go on about it for.quite a number of pages Might as well learn to cool the flaming and grow up Noah.

Are we seriously talking about the whole Sheik/Impa again? Sheik is Zelda's alt identity. It doesn't make sense to cut her due to her popularity and how important she is to one of the classics. Removing Sheik is like removing Mewtwo or Roy: Hell is gonna break loose no matter what.

 

[Will]

Want to talk about Impa?

Too bad,WALUIGI TIME.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Except Marth is literally the face of Fire Emblem. And Ness, cause of his Ninten incarnation, is a more recognizable protagonist.

Sheik is just.... Sheik, a one off. In contrast to Impa, who's practically the most important character in the series next to the Triforce Three.

Also, there is not "Smash staple" At least not for characters that don't represent their own series. Jigglypuff was almost cut from Brawl and was finally added as filler. So if Jiggs can go, why can't Sheik?





Loading time was crap due to hardware limitations, not because Sakurai intended it. Again, Sheik likely didn't go, cause there wasn't really anyone to replace the concept. He likes the ninja character concept, that much I can agree on.

I agree that Sakurai makes the final call, but that's beside the point, we're speculating here after all.



For Shielda to work properly, you need to make them work fluidly like so:

Where you can switch between both forms at whim between combos, and BOTH character having moves that compliment each other for set ups and combos. Of which, Sheilda have neither.

Or, you have a 'build-up' transformation. Like in DBZ games. It can be "charge energy," "absorb energy," "build counters," etc... But the idea is simple, you build up a sort of "meter" (not in a literal sense mind you), to allow access to a next level form. With Shielda, this concept wouldn't work at all.

Imo, the two best characters for those concepts are:

Diddy+Dixie duo, working as an IC hybrid that can switch between the two monkeys at a whim. The 'swap out' would work much like the DKC games, and a more refined version of transform, since it's immediate, and with both monkeys have different yet complementary moves in their canon material, it's literally the perfect way to implement things. Considering Sakurai has already tried this idea once, I don't see why he wouldn't try again.

The second if like I said Charizard > Megazard X/Y. The idea I see, is basically, you choose the megaform pre-match. Each on specializes in something else. Y in mobility and aerial combat, and X on raw power. You build a meter with Zard (easiest way to just by dealing damage to opponents - and again, it can be a sort of aura like Lucario), once a certain bit is reached, you can go Mega for a while, or till you're K.O.ed, that's just balancing really, and you can use either transformed form of Zard till then, and then having to build the meter again. The whole concept focuses on having Zard build that meter, so he can land the killing moves with his Megaforms, much like the concept you say would be ideal of Shielda, but with the added bonus, that the transformation, being limited time or what have you, needs to be used carefully. Example, perhaps saving the Y transformation, to recover properly in dire times due to extra mobility would be prefered to using it outright, and perhaps wasting it, etc...

With Shielda, Sheik already does the killing just fine, especially with how Smash plays, and Zelda, Zelda doesn't DO anything. And again, in PM, where Zelda is a mighty good character alone, the Down B, is more of a nuisance than anything helpful, Zelda would be much better off having something else for that Down B, than transform, because it's honestly a wasted move slot.

Ah. I see what you mean.

I would still favor Sheik staying. I would imagine Namco bringing those concepts up to Sakurai to make the transformation be more practical. I honestly don't think Sheik will get cut. But that's just a difference in opinion.

The meter thing could work too, kind of like Wario's fart (lol). Just make her flash when it's available.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Want to talk about Impa?

Too bad,WALUIGI TIME.

View attachment 7251

We're still gonna talk about Impa.

 

[James92]

Want to talk about Impa?

Too bad,WALUIGI TIME.

View attachment 7251

 

[SmasherMaster]

Can't Sheik stay and people give Impa a unique moveset? That way Impa supporters and Sheik supporters are both happy.

And innocent bystanders don't need to fear for their lives.

 

[Sonicguy726]

We're still gonna talk about Impa.

Can we just move on now

 

[TumblrFamous]

Can't Sheik stay and people give Impa a unique moveset? That way Impa supporters and Sheik supporters are both happy.

And innocent bystanders don't need to fear for their lives.

Life is never that easy or fair. Someone will always get hurt in the outcome. Besides, it's human nature to **** about meaningless, petty things.

 

[andimidna]

Not sure how most of you don't see it. All of these characters your talking about have a reason to be added and a reason to have nothing in the previous installment. Vaati is one of the more important characters in a series with a good amount of representation already. However, at the height of his popularity and importance, he wasn't considered to be playable. The team didn't even decide to make him an assist trophy. The team didn't even decide to make him a stage hazard. The team didn't even even decide to give him an appearance in the background. The team didn't even decide to give him a trophy. The team didn't even decide to give him a sticker out of the 700 stickers. He has done nothing since 2004. Except the re-release. But the series has progressed past his time. They aren't going to look back for a character that hasn't been in any new games unless they are looking for retro characters. And we all know Vaati isn't retro or 3rd party iconic so stop justifying him with ROB and Megaman.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Can't Sheik stay and people give Impa a unique moveset? That way Impa supporters and Sheik supporters are both happy.

And innocent bystanders don't need to fear for their lives.

I feel like that won't be the case sadly for Sakurai.

 

[Will]

How about now?

 

[Kenith]

Have you even played WW? Or any Zelda game for that matter? TL and Link are two completely different people.

Everything else you said was pure bullocks though. There's really no point in refuting it because you're clearly deluded, and honestly, I'm gonna stop deliberating with you very soon.
You're ****ing idiot, no he wasn't.
Again, you're a ****ing idiot, and have no idea what you're talking about.
Go ask Yuii for it, he has the info. It was something to do with the data in Brawl and how Jiggs is the last character in all the files, as well as the last character to be unlocked and such. It all pretty much implies she was a last minute addition, which is strange for a vet.

Alright, name-calling and belligerent refuting of my side of the argument, that's a great sign!

First of all, I know TP Link and Toon Link are different people. That's my ****ing point. TP Zelda doesn't have a Sheik counterpart. Yet they made up a TP Sheik anyway because canon does not matter in Smash Bros. If Sakurai wanted Sheik and Zelda to be separate, it would not matter to him.

And Ness was to be replaced in Melee. Sakurai has stated it himself.

"Actually, at first, I planned to change him [Ness] into the protagonist of Mother 3 [Lucas], but for various reasons during the delay, I settled back on the original idea." - Sakurai, http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0717/

And Marth wasn't the face of Fire Emblem. He was just popular and appeared in two games.

And just because Jigglypuff was a last minute addition doesn't mean it wasn't planned at all.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Not sure how most of you don't see it. All of these characters your talking about have a reason to be added and a reason to have nothing in the previous installment. Vaati is one of the more important characters in a series with a good amount of representation already. However, at the height of his popularity and importance, he wasn't considered to be playable. The team didn't even decide to make him an assist trophy. The team didn't even decide to make him a stage hazard. The team didn't even even decide to give him an appearance in the background. The team didn't even decide to give him a trophy. The team didn't even decide to give him a sticker out of the 700 stickers. He has done nothing since 2004. Except the re-release. But the series has progressed past his time. They aren't going to look back for a character that hasn't been in any new games unless they are looking for retro characters. And we all know Vaati isn't retro or 3rd party iconic so stop justifying him with ROB and Megaman.

What about Diddy? He didn't get anything in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, if Sakurai wanted to include a better representative for a Sheikah, he would have added Impa in Melee instead of Sheik. But no, he decided to include the character that was very important to the game to make for a very unique, interesting character. Honestly, Impa in OoT was no more important than Saria. And look what happened to her.

I do agree that Impa has gotten a very prominent role in SS, but I still believe that it would still make no sense to get rid of Sheik and add Impa as her replacement, even when Sakurai said he's not cutting any characters out of the way.

Deal is, back when Brawl was in development, there was was no merit for adding Impa, especially over the likes of Toon Link who even had quite the sizable following.

As for Melee, anyone who didn't know Sheik was very popular back then is blind.

Circumstances have changed now. In the Zelda canon, Sheik is totally irrelevant now, and Impa holds the spotlight as the 4th most important character in the series. It's not about recentness, it's more about being accureate to the canon. Granted, this doesn't guarantee her, but it's a solid argument in her favor, especially over Sheik. If we got Rosalina over Toad, Jr. or PMario, I don't see how Impa can take Sheik's spot.

 

[andimidna]

He's never been in a significant Zelda game worth representing with anything.

 

[josh bones]

Waluigi is more important to Zelda than impa.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Not sure how most of you don't see it. All of these characters your talking about have a reason to be added and a reason to have nothing in the previous installment. Vaati is one of the more important characters in a series with a good amount of representation already. However, at the height of his popularity and importance, he wasn't considered to be playable. The team didn't even decide to make him an assist trophy. The team didn't even decide to make him a stage hazard. The team didn't even even decide to give him an appearance in the background. The team didn't even decide to give him a trophy. The team didn't even decide to give him a sticker out of the 700 stickers. He has done nothing since 2004. Except the re-release. But the series has progressed past his time. They aren't going to look back for a character that hasn't been in any new games unless they are looking for retro characters. And we all know Vaati isn't retro or 3rd party iconic so stop justifying him with ROB and Megaman.

Diddy Kong didn't get a trophy in Melee or anything at all.

The logic you are using still makes no sense.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Alright, name-calling and belligerent refuting of my side of the argument, that's a great sign!

First of all, I know TP Link and Toon Link are different people. That's my ****ing point. TP Zelda doesn't have a Sheik counterpart. Yet they made up a TP Sheik anyway because canon does not matter in Smash Bros. If Sakurai wanted Sheik and Zelda to be separate, it would not matter to him.

And Ness was to be replaced in Melee. Sakurai has stated it himself.

"Actually, at first, I planned to change him [Ness] into the protagonist of Mother 3 [Lucas], but for various reasons during the delay, I settled back on the original idea." - Sakurai, http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0717/

And Marth wasn't the face of Fire Emblem. He was just popular and appeared in two games.

And just because Jigglypuff was a last minute addition doesn't mean it wasn't planned at all.

wasn't marth the main character of the first game

 

[Deleted member]

Ah. I see what you mean.

I would still favor Sheik staying. I would imagine Namco bringing those concepts up to Sakurai to make the transformation be more practical. I honestly don't think Sheik will get cut. But that's just a difference in opinion.

The meter thing could work too, kind of like Wario's fart (lol). Just make her flash when it's available.

That's fine, we can agree to disagree.

Besides, all the nonsense ITT is making me sour, I'm gonna bail.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

**** this.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Deal is, back when Brawl was in development, there was was no merit for adding Impa, especially over the likes of Toon Link who even had quite the sizable following.

As for Melee, anyone who didn't know Sheik was very popular back then is blind.

Circumstances have changed now. In the Zelda canon, Sheik is totally irrelevant now, and Impa holds the spotlight as the 4th most important character in the series. It's not about recentness, it's more about being accureate to the canon. Granted, this doesn't guarantee her, but it's a solid argument in her favor, especially over Sheik. If we got Rosalina over Toad, Jr. or PMario, I don't see how Impa can take Sheik's spot.

Fair enough. I just don't see the point, so to speak, replacing Sheik with Impa, but you have a pretty strong case, and I can't argue with that.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Waluigi is more important to Zelda than impa.

har har har har har

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Causing wars for no reason, constantly bashing others because they don't "agree" with your reasons on said characters

Bring one post of me making a rude comment in a flame war that wasn't me defending myself against another rude comment. I'll give you a million dollars if you do! Go on, do it.

Prove that I am the one who starts the flaming. Because it seems from your warped perspective I suggested the topic so that means I obviously am responsible for the aggressive objection. So if you can't prove it, stop your ********!

 

[Will]

He's never been in a significant Zelda game worth representing with anything.

Kill him.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not everyone from every Nintendo game can get content in Smash Bros. 4. There are limitations in hardware you know.

 

[Sonicguy726]

So, how about that other character
Lets discuss him/her

 

[Tepig2000]

What about Diddy? He didn't get anything in Melee.

He was mentioned in Dixie's trophy .

 

[Will]

Not everyone from every Nintendo game can get content in Smash Bros. 4. There are limitations in hardware you know.

Truth.