Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

I don't know why people think second-parties aren't more unlikely to be included because they are second party. Sakurai goes to the effort to get third-parties, characters not even partially owned by Nintendo, he's gotten rights to most of the popular 2nd parties last time around (they just weren't playable - other than Pokemon), and there already are second-parties on the roster. Yeah, Nintendo does own a majority of Pokemon, but Sakurai still has to work with Game Freak like he would any other second-party. It's possible we don't get any new ones this time around just because none have extremely good chances, but assuming being 2nd party majorly hinders chances is simply an unfounded theory.

Similar to Bayonetta being partially owned by SEGA, The Wonderful 101 is shared between Nintendo and Platinum Games.

The Bayonetta IP isn't owned by Nintendo, they just own the rights to Bayonetta 2. Like Pokemon or GS, Nintendo owns part of W101, making them a 2nd party IP while Bayonetta is still 3rd.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

N3ON, I already covered second-parties well. There's two scenarios, really. Either the creator dies and the rights get mixed (Or the rights are mixed) or the owner says no. Neither or seem very likely.

 

[Xenigma]

Before we get into "They're clearly going to have a new Zelda character if we don't get two links!", people followed the same logic in Brawl for us getting a new Mario rep. You can see where that went. It's totally possible that it's just Ganon/Link/Zelda (with Sheik) but I personally think we're at least seeing another link.

Which is why I think we would either get a brand new fourth Zelda character if any at all, assuming Toon Link is cut to begin with. Classic/LTTP/ALBW Link is certainly a possibility, but it seems unlikely we would get a third Link clone in as many Smash games. Young Link to Toon Link was a weird exception for treatment of clones between Melee and Brawl as Toon had appeared in several games while Young Link hadn't appeared since Melee's release. Should we really expect a similar case between Brawl and 4 because we will have gotten one new game with Classic Link?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know why people think second-parties aren't more unlikely to be included because they are second party. Sakurai goes to the effort to get third-parties, characters not even partially owned by Nintendo, he's gotten rights to most of the popular 2nd parties last time around (they just weren't playable - other than Pokemon), and there already are second-parties on the roster. Yeah, Nintendo does own a majority of Pokemon, but Sakurai still has to work with Game Freak like he would any other second-party. It's possible we don't get any new ones this time around just because none have extremely good chances, but assuming being 2nd party majorly hinders chances is simply an unfounded theory.


The Bayonetta IP isn't owned by Nintendo, they just own the rights to Bayonetta 2. Like Pokemon or GS, Nintendo owns part of W101, making them a 2nd party IP while Bayonetta is still 3rd.

He said SEGA partially owns the rights, not Nintendo.

 

[N3ON]

N3ON, I already covered second-parties well. There's two scenarios, really. Either the creator dies and the rights get mixed (Or the rights are mixed) or the owner says no. Neither or seem very likely.

If only that was the first time I had "covered" second-parties as well...

But you assume rights aren't already mixed, when the vast majority of 2nd parties have mixed (and often complicated) rights. However, Sakurai has shown that he is capable of acquiring the rights to use most of the popular 2nd party characters already for Brawl (they just weren't playable), so not getting the rights again or the rights holder(s) saying no is unlikely. Second, rights to a character are very rarely held by a single person in the gaming industry, they are usually tied to a studio or company. Look at Inafune and Mega Man. So... callous as it might seem, the death of one person will not affect the legal ownership of a character, and even if it did, it would likely revert to the primary rights holder after the singular person, which in this case, would again be a company or studio, so that's not really a problem either. There are more than two-scenarios total, but your two aren't much of a problem, which is good.

People don't think we'll get second-party characters because Sakurai doesn't want to deal with second parties, or they aren't fully Nintendo, or some other reason that can be disproven by the fact that we already have seen the rights to those characters obtained for Brawl, Sakurai has obtained rights to third-parties, and Sakurai deals with second-parties all the time, he already has them on the roster.

He said SEGA partially owns the rights, not Nintendo.

K. Second parties to third parties are too confusing anyway.

 

[FalKoopa]

As a heads up, Noah has been unbanned.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Here's my new roster! How do you all like it? Ray and Robin are the customizable characters.

 

[FalKoopa]

You're being waaay over-confident on Vaati. That's all I have to say.

 

[Autumn ♫]

You're being waaay over-confident on Vaati. That's all I have to say.

I've always had Vaati on my roster even before Link Between 2 Worlds and WW HD were announced

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Neat Roster. Its a bit on the large side. No palutena though?

 

[Deleted member]

As a heads up, Noah has been unbanned.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Choosing between K Rool and Dixie were hard enough. Here's to hoping for DLC after the games are out!

 

[Autumn ♫]

Neat Roster. Its a bit on the large side. No palutena though?

I've always been a bit unsure about her. If I were to add a character or replace Isaac, it would be with Palutena.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I'm sure the mods reminded him that continued problems could very well result in a permanent ban. A short ban like this should either make him leave the site altogether or give him a bit of a reality check that should mellow him out. All in all, we shouldn't have to worry about him anymore.

And about Scat wanting vaati so much I say let him, who doesn't have that one unlikely character that we dream of making the roster. Personally I would love to see fawful and the black knight in this game, and will debate for them even though their chances are slim.

Here's my new roster! How do you all like it? Ray and Robin are the customizable characters.

I'm not one to argue about specific characters persay, but I still have a few issues. 51 characters seems a little on the hefty side, and no cuts also only one cut is also a bit sketchy. Most rosters have Chrom in there and also a new kid Icarus rep, who it is doesnt matter IMO. I would suggest adding both which would bring your roster up to 53 which is definetly not happening. Customizing real characters like robin and ray would cause rage so I suggest cutting them. Also impa and sheik would have similar movesets so I suggest cutting one of them, likely impa. Past that I would get rid of snake, lucario and king k (or Dixie but I don't see king k over Dixie ever) which would bring your roster to a way more safe 47.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As a heads up, Noah has been unbanned.

Why?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Choosing between K Rool and Dixie were hard enough. Here's to hoping for DLC after the games are out!

Although I'm not much of a fan of K Rool, I'd chose him over Dixie for the sake of variety. I'm not saying she'd be a clone, but she has a similar build and concept to diddy. At least, more so than K Rool. Movesets are not the only way characters can differ.

I've always been a bit unsure about her. If I were to add a character or replace Isaac, it would be with Palutena.

Oh no, not Isaac! Personally, If I were to be forced to take one person off that roster it would be toad. For... various reasons.

 

[FalKoopa]

Oh no, not Isaac! Personally, If I were to be forced to take one person off that roster it would be toad. For... various reasons.

I think it should be Ray tbh.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Choosing between K Rool and Dixie were hard enough. Here's to hoping for DLC after the games are out!

A bit hefty on the amount, and I'd say all of your newcomers are plausible so I would cut a few veterans, say snake lucario and toon link to make it more reasonable.

 

[Arcadenik]

Mario has no more notable characters to add. Toad is not notable, Bowser Junior hardly ever does anything interesting there's really no one left.

You are right, Toad is not notable... he is ICONIC. Toad is a quintessential character of the Mario franchise and Nintendo history. Toad himself can represent the entire Toad species. The Toad species are playable in at least FIVE main Mario games.

Pre-Brawl
- Super Mario Bros. 2

Post-Brawl
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii
- New Super Mario Bros. U
- New Super Luigi U
- Super Mario 3D World

You cannot say the same about Waluigi, Daisy, Toadette, etc. because they are exclusively playable in sports/party spin-off games. I think that Toad is practically the "third Mario Brother" at this point.

 

[smashbro29]

You are right, Toad is not notable... he is ICONIC. Toad is a quintessential character of the Mario franchise and Nintendo history. Toad himself can represent the entire Toad species. The Toad species are playable in at least FIVE main Mario games.

Pre-Brawl
- Super Mario Bros. 2

Post-Brawl
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii
- New Super Mario Bros. U
- New Super Luigi U
- Super Mario 3D World

You cannot say the same about Waluigi, Daisy, Toadette, etc. because they are exclusively playable in sports/party spin-off games. I think that Toad is practically the "third Mario Brother" at this point.

Toad is the "who can we use to fill the slot for the 3rd and 4th player" guy. He has no defining characteristics gameplay wise and nobody uses Toad unless they're player 3 or 4.

 

[Noler_Mass]

You are right, Toad is not notable... he is ICONIC. Toad is a quintessential character of the Mario franchise and Nintendo history. Toad himself can represent the entire Toad species. The Toad species are playable in at least FIVE main Mario games.

Pre-Brawl
- Super Mario Bros. 2

Post-Brawl
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii
- New Super Mario Bros. U
- New Super Luigi U
- Super Mario 3D World

You cannot say the same about Waluigi, Daisy, Toadette, etc. because they are exclusively playable in sports/party spin-off games. I think that Toad is practically the "third Mario Brother" at this point.

Technically super luigi is just an expansion of super Mario, even though its getting its own disk but still you are correct. I'm not a big fan of toad getting added but ever since e3 I see it as likely. He definetly used to be more of the species of the Mario world and nothing more, but lately especially since brawl toad has been growing into his own character. I think he has a good chance of inclusion.

On a side note I'm beginning to understand waluigis chances. Before I thought he was so nonimportant that he couldn't be a character, but I'm understanding that his inclusion would kind of just be as the Mario spinoff character. You could say that Mario spinoffs are already reped with Mario and luigi and the like, but they are different in that they have other games and their movesets don't reflect the fact that they are in spinoffs. Waluigi on the other hand being a character who has only appeared in spinoffs could specifically feature the spinoffs seeing as they are just as massively popular if not more so than say your average donkey kong game or luigis mansion. I'd think his whole moveset would revolve around moves from the spinoffs, such as a tennis racket, or throwing a basketball (basically the same thing as the fire ball for Mario and luigi), his forward B could be similar to yoshis ball except its a Mario kart, his up B would be his Mario party dice block jump (minus the dice block). And, of course, his final smash would be the blue shell!

 

[8-peacock-8]

Ok. Here's my attempt at guessing again. lol

I made a few changes. I replaced Magnus with a better choice, tossed in a Mii to complete the stupid rumor trio, and i added a list of Assist Trophies.

The characters on the very bottom are who i think will become assist trophies. (Isa, King Hippo, Balloon Fighter, etc.)

Any opinions on this? (This is just like the last one I posted. But I made this for fun. I still see the other one as the possible roster we'd end up with. Just my opinion)

 

[Noler_Mass]

Any opinions on this? (This is just like the last one I posted. But I made this for fun. I still see the other one as the possible roster we'd end up with. Just my opinion)

Would play and very much enjoy this roster. Only changes I would make in the likelihood field are take out lucario and brim g back just charizard, replace dark pit with someone else from awakening since dark pit is best represented as a color change, and bring wolf back.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm sure the mods reminded him that continued problems could very well result in a permanent ban. A short ban like this should either make him leave the site altogether or give him a bit of a reality check that should mellow him out. All in all, we shouldn't have to worry about him anymore.

And about Scat wanting vaati so much I say let him, who doesn't have that one unlikely character that we dream of making the roster. Personally I would love to see fawful and the black knight in this game, and will debate for them even though their chances are slim.



I'm not one to argue about specific characters persay, but I still have a few issues. 51 characters seems a little on the hefty side, and no cuts also only one cut is also a bit sketchy. Most rosters have Chrom in there and also a new kid Icarus rep, who it is doesnt matter IMO. I would suggest adding both which would bring your roster up to 53 which is definetly not happening. Customizing real characters like robin and ray would cause rage so I suggest cutting them. Also impa and sheik would have similar movesets so I suggest cutting one of them, likely impa. Past that I would get rid of snake, lucario and king k (or Dixie but I don't see king k over Dixie ever) which would bring your roster to a way more safe 47.

Also, Ray and Robin are the customizable characters so I actually have 49 characters.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Also, Ray and Robin are the customizable characters so I actually have 49 characters.

I suggested cutting both of them in the post. Having characters from specific games being the customizable characters, not to be rude, but is a dumb idea. And besides their customizable features, both are pretty low in the likelihood department. So if you want to keep them I guess that's fine but I'd definetly recommend taking out the customization spiel.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

But you assume rights aren't already mixed, when the vast majority of 2nd parties have mixed (and often complicated) rights. However, Sakurai has shown that he is capable of acquiring the rights to use most of the popular 2nd party characters already for Brawl (they just weren't playable), so not getting the rights again or the rights holder(s) saying no is unlikely. Second, rights to a character are very rarely held by a single person in the gaming industry, they are usually tied to a studio or company. Look at Inafune and Mega Man. So... callous as it might seem, the death of one person will not affect the legal ownership of a character, and even if it did, it would likely revert to the primary rights holder after the singular person, which in this case, would again be a company or studio, so that's not really a problem either. There are more than two-scenarios total, but your two aren't much of a problem, which is good.

People don't think we'll get second-party characters because Sakurai doesn't want to deal with second parties, or they aren't fully Nintendo, or some other reason that can be disproven by the fact that we already have seen the rights to those characters obtained for Brawl, Sakurai has obtained rights to third-parties, and Sakurai deals with second-parties all the time, he already has them on the roster.

"The rights are mixed" does count as a psuedo number three but that doesn't happen often and the only cases where I've seen that that goes really far are Chrono Trigger and .Hack (And I go around all media; not just games)

Thankfully my two are very unlikely. Unless someone shoots the creator of Golden Sun or the creator of Dillon thinks his game is artistic (Even then...) I don't think it'll affect much. Second-party status really doesn't affect much. Maybe the creator does a slight bit, but even then, not much.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

both are pretty low in the likelihood department.

Its okay, I chose luck as my asset. Robin will be fine.

 

[Sharkarat]

I suggested cutting both of them in the post. Having characters from specific games being the customizable characters, not to be rude, but is a dumb idea. And besides their customizable features, both are pretty low in the likelihood department. So if you want to keep them I guess that's fine but I'd definetly recommend taking out the customization spiel.

I'm curious, why do you think it's a dumb Idea?

 

[MagnesD3]

Here is my 45 super cut roster if it doesnt reach 50

,

I still think Issac, Saki, Takamaru, Shulk and Mii have a good chance of making it in though.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Here is my 45 super cut roster if it doesnt reach 50

,

I still think Issac, Saki, Takamaru, Shulk and Mii have a good chance of making it in though.

It's a good roster, I don't agree with these though
-Shadow Mario with Bowser Jr.
-Zelda only having 3 characters while Mario and Pokemon have 5
-Replacing Falco with Krystal
-I have a little disagreement with Diddy and Dixie as Dixie deserves to be her own playable character.
Other than that I believe it's good.

 

[FalKoopa]

>No Falco.

No like. Sorry.

 

[MagnesD3]

>No Falco.

No like. Sorry.

I cut the clones, if there must be cuts then the clones should go only.

It's a good roster, I don't agree with these though
-Shadow Mario with Bowser Jr.
-Zelda only having 3 characters while Mario and Pokemon have 5
-Replacing Falco with Krystal
-I have a little disagreement with Diddy and Dixie as Dixie deserves to be her own playable character.
Other than that I believe it's good.

I put shadow mario since thats really the only thing that will make jr.'s moveset interesting, transforming into a paintbrush/paint wielding fake mario would be very cool and he still has his transformation bandanna in every game he is in. Mario and pokemon sell the most. Krystal is more unique/interesting (and is more important IMO even though falco is more popular and falco is a clone.) Diddy Dixie pair was sakurais original vision, so I wanna see it in action.

Sry for double post.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad is the "who can we use to fill the slot for the 3rd and 4th player" guy. He has no defining characteristics gameplay wise and nobody uses Toad unless they're player 3 or 4.

Actually Toad's defining characteristic (gameplay wise) is his speed... they brought back Toad's speed from Super Mario Bros. 2 in Super Mario 3D World.

 

[Deleted member]

His "transformation bandana" was blue with a Mario nose and mustache.

The banadna he's been wearing since is a mouth with fangs to make him seem scarier like his dad since he doesn't have fangs outside of a single tiny one.
Aside from that, why not *gasp* give Jr. the paintbrush without tacking on a pointless transformation? OMG! Such an idea is unheard of!

 

[BluePikmin11]

Toad is definitely the next Mario rep, I can totally see it now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why are these people hating on Toad?

I mean, I'm a Junior guy myself but why? He's cool.

 

[MagnesD3]

His "transformation bandana" was blue with a Mario nose and mustache.

The banadna he's been wearing since is a mouth with fangs to make him seem scarier like his dad since he doesn't have fangs outside of a single tiny one.
Aside from that, why not *gasp* give Jr. the paintbrush without tacking on a pointless transformation? OMG! Such an idea is unheard of!

Im cool with it, either way. As long as I get to sling a paintbrush to make people dirty..

 

[Autumn ♫]

I put shadow mario since thats really the only thing that will make jr.'s moveset interesting, transforming into a paintbrush/paint wielding fake mario would be very cool and he still has his transformation bandanna in every game he is in. Mario and pokemon sell the most. Krystal is more unique/interesting (and is more important IMO even though falco is more popular and falco is a clone.) Diddy Dixie pair was sakurais original vision, so I wanna see it in action.

Sry for double post.

It's just that we haven't seen Shadow Mario in forever and he can have an interesting moveset without him. Zelda is however, part of the big 3 and it's Nintendo's 2nd biggest 1st party company. Falco (and Wolf) can easily be made different and Sakarai said that he was focusing on changing the characters movesets more than adding new characters. With Diddy and Dixie, Diddy worked out very good without Dixie and Dixie has recently become important enough to be her own seperate character and DK is big enough for 4 characters.

 

[MagnesD3]

It's just that we haven't seen Shadow Mario in forever and he can have an interesting moveset without him. Zelda is however, part of the big 3 and it's Nintendo's 2nd biggest 1st party company. Falco (and Wolf) can easily be made different and Sakarai said that he was focusing on changing the characters movesets more than adding new characters. With Diddy and Dixie, Diddy worked out very good without Dixie and Dixie has recently become important enough to be her own seperate character and DK is big enough for 4 characters.

These issues can go either way tbh.

 

[TKactual]

Well I'm for Waluigi so I'll just stay out of the Toad and Bowser Jr. stuff you guys have going on now.