Rosalina's 1.0.4 Patch Change Impressions

[Puppyfaic]

What is that movement at 1:47, where yellow Rosalina slides back? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKRVKPCc6Ms&t=1m45s

Visually, it looks like she crouched or was in some autocancel animation.

It may have been the Purple Rosie's Neutral B's windbox. Rosalina has a slight windbox in front of her when calling Luma back.

 

[DanGR]

I am like 90% sure this is autocanceled fair or nair. Almost looks like a WD back, doesn't it?

It most certainly does look like that.

It may have been the Purple Rosie's Neutral B's windbox. Rosalina has a slight windbox in front of her when calling Luma back.

Yeah I think you're right.

 

[Steam]

I forgot the brawl tier list placed Metaknight as SS tier rather then S tier.

So Ice Climbers managed to reach second best, that one I wasn't expecting. However, they aren't as broken as MK. They have obvious weaknesses that can be exploited, unlike MK.

Brawl overall was a mess. Smash 4 is a lot better off, but I still stand by my opinion that Rosie is nowhere near as powerful as ICs and once counterplay is developed more thoroughly against her, she'll actually drop.

Ice climbers only had the infinite going for them. even together they were ass at everything but juggling outside of the infinite. they had some desynch setups but the risk reward was always scary because gimping nana was so easy and that essentially = stock. Rosa is just as toxic as IC's because Luma buffs rosalina in the most braindead of ways and covers her mistakes and makes her ridiculous to space against. There's also cases like her nair which becomes almost impossible to deal with with luma on her because luma essentially just covers for her. She gets moves that are fast and strong and cover everywhere so in that way she's a lot like metaknight because luma is so easy to keep up. M2K has said he believes rosalina is MK-status and I would agree if not for sheik.

More than anything rosalina is baby's first puppet character. I've never known a character that's so hard to deal with even when you're outplaying them heavily. -.-

 

[ParanoidDrone]

What is that movement at 1:47, where yellow Rosalina slides back? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKRVKPCc6Ms&t=1m45s

Visually, it looks like she crouched or was in some autocancel animation.

Recalling Luma generates a windbox in front of Rosalina because...reasons, I guess. It doesn't make sense but there you have it. That's what's pushing yellow Rosalina back.

EDIT: Didn't notice there was another page with a response, never mind.

 

[Blazin']

I don't know. If Luma can't attack while Rosalina is being grabbed, so be it (even though it was never much of a problem to begin with). The respawn timer is fine as well, but Rosalina should be able to call Luma back a lot more easily since it gets killed so often in battle. If that happens, then I'm fine with the nerfs. Just gonna have to deal with it I guess.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

I don't know if this is old or not but it seems like Rosalina's nair has a little more lag to it when landing.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't know if this is old or not but it seems like Rosalina's nair has a little more lag to it when landing.

This is the first I have heard of that, and it didn't seem to be the case from what I watched.

While it might be true, let's be careful not to fall victim to any placebo effect regarding Rosalina nerfs (Greninja mains should be cautious of this too).

 

[Clemente]

Well, I have been saying that I heard about nerfed aerials for her. But I didn't get to play it so I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[NiTEZ]

More than anything rosalina is baby's first puppet character. I've never known a character that's so hard to deal with even when you're outplaying them heavily. -.-

Lucario says hi. His kit is literally rewarding you for being outplayed.

As for the Rosalina nerfs, the real nerf is the timer and I don't know if the Wii U version will be played with 2-3 stocks, so it could to be a little problematic, but it's not like Rosalina is a sitting duck without Luma. She has great tilts and aerials to space with, not to mention a nice d-smash.

Has anyone been able to get actual video proof of Luma not being about to attack with she's grabbed?
I've seen the update timer, but not this at all. And if the game is can receive balance patches like these, do you think they'd change some of these things back/again?

 

[Baskerville]

Lucario says hi. His kit is literally rewarding you for being outplayed.

As for the Rosalina nerfs, the real nerf is the timer and I don't know if the Wii U version will be played with 2-3 stocks, so it could to be a little problematic, but it's not like Rosalina is a sitting duck without Luma. She has great tilts and aerials to space with, not to mention a nice d-smash.

Has anyone been able to get actual video proof of Luma not being about to attack with she's grabbed?
I've seen the update timer, but not this at all. And if the game is can receive balance patches like these, do you think they'd change some of these things back/again?

Quoting my post from the General Discussion.

Go to near the end of the match, Luma clearly did an U-Tilt to Shulk the moment she got grabbed.
Is it a buffer, or....

Again, it could be just a buffer.

 

[Greward]

Lucario says hi. His kit is literally rewarding you for being outplayed.

Lucario's kit rewards him for surviving, which isn't being outplayed. Against bad lucario players you can just kill them early and they never get a chance to do anything.
Although i agree it's not a fun mechanic at all, it makes lucario be awful when at low %, so it's kind of a trade off. I'd remove the aura mechanic if I were to decide tho, I don't like it at all.

In the Rosalina topic, having Luma isn't a tradeoff, because solo Rosalina is quite good in this game (which means not weak), and Luma just feels like an extra. I actually feel that they should nerf Rosalina instead of nerfing Luma, but oh well.

 

[Steam]

Lucario says hi. His kit is literally rewarding you for being outplayed.

There's a big difference between lucario doing damage at high % and rosalina getting to escape situations no other character can for free because her name is rosalina. Lucario gets higher reward at high% but is the same character and still has to outplay you to kill you. People will trade jabs and tilts with lucario all day at low%, get ahead, and think they're outplaying him when really it's mostly to do with how weak lucario is at that stage. They then proceed to lose those kinds of trades badly at high% and think Lucario was just rewarded for being "outplayed" at the start when it often had to do with the fact that getting an early % lead on lucario is extremely difficult. Aura's obviously stupid and overtuned, But I honestly mind it less than the ocean of things rosalina is frequently allowed to get away with at neutral.

 

[Blazin']

Kinda feel like some people here think that Rosalina is invincible with Luma. Its not really the case. Give a character something unique and suddenly everyone wants it gone. Anyways, patch is out, Rosalina is nerfed. Guess we'll just have to deal with it. Rosie is still a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Kinda feel like some people here think that Rosalina is invincible with Luma. Its not really the case. Give a character something unique and suddenly everyone wants it gone. Anyways, patch is out, Rosalina is nerfed. Guess we'll just have to deal with it. Rosie is still a force to be reckoned with.

So far, only two things have changed, which are the n-air, and the Luma's respawn timer.

Edit: Aerodrome did confirm the following...

LUMAS RECALL SPEED HAS BEEN INCREASED DRAMATICALLY WHEN SEPERATED FROM ROSALINA

 

[Kiyosuki]

Nobody really wants her "unique" mechanic gone per se, it's a neat character concept; they just want it to make more sense. Like I said in a previous thread on the subject, I don't see the game design logic in having Luma be kill-able to begin with if its downtime is so negligible. Having its downtime be even a little bit longer makes the whole mechanic make more sense since it gives a more solid consequence to losing Luma for a greater amount of time, because otherwise what's the point of having Luma be kill-able in the first place? It should be a full potential draw-back rather than a momentary inconvenience. It's not like Rosa has nothing to work with in the mean time during that downtime anyways even if the player may have to start actually thinking about that possibly more vulnerable period of time more than before, which I think is a good thing.

I mean, for all the crazy things the Ice Climbers could do...IC players always faced the danger of having Nana (or Popo if its switched) be KO'd for an entire stock, so this is really no big deal compared to that. I mean, apparently Rosa even got a slight buff from this with having Luma return to her faster which is fine.

 

[Blazin']

So far, only two things have changed, which are the n-air, and the Luma's respawn timer.

Edit: Aerodrome did confirm the following...

There's also the grab situation, but its fine. I've been doing alright with her for the most part this morning. I'm still experimenting with new playstyles so that Luma doesn't die as easily. These are big changes for Rosalina, but like I said, she's still pretty good.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Fortunately for us, the Luma can still attack if Rosalina got grabbed. Not that it matters though, as certain fighters can still successfully throw Rosalina, regardless of the Luma's presence.

 

[Blazin']

Fortunately for us, the Luma can still attack if Rosalina got grabbed. Not that it matters though, as certain fighters can still successfully throw Rosalina, regardless of the Luma's presence.

Oh is that really the case? I've been hearing mixed things about it all morning and haven't really gotten the chance to test it out. If it really is then I think the nerf is something I can deal with.

 

[ChikoLad]

Luma Shot has less range and N-air less knockback, but I actually consider those things buffs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Luma Shot has less range and N-air less knockback, but I actually consider those things buffs.

This is a fully charged Luma Shot, right?

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah, fully charged Luma Shot has less range. But that means Luma is out of the animation faster, so it's actually good. I rarely hit people at the very end of the old Luma Shot when fully charged anyway, so I think this change is for the better.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, fully charged Luma Shot has less range. But that means Luma is out of the animation faster, so it's actually good. I rarely hit people at the very end of the old Luma Shot when fully charged anyway, so I think this change is for the better.

Before the patch, Luma Shot could travel up to 75% the length of Final Destination. Is it now more like 60%?

I just know that the Power Luma Shot only travels up to 50% of Final Destination's length, so it would seem odd for the normal Luma Shot to travel a shorter distance than its slower, but more powerful variant.

 

[Kinslayer]

Yeah, fully charged Luma Shot has less range. But that means Luma is out of the animation faster, so it's actually good. I rarely hit people at the very end of the old Luma Shot when fully charged anyway, so I think this change is for the better.

Not really the move was used to shoot luma out for more horizontal control of the screen. Shortening the distance shortens the effective range luma can control without rosa moving up a bit behind him. Also it removes a lot of punishing distance.

 

[ChikoLad]

I haven't got a hold of the patch yet but people have said it's only the fully charged version that's shorter. I doubt it's shorter than Power Luma Shot, but it's been shortened a bit. However, I see at as a good thing. I normally hit people at a closer range, because they would see it coming at a longer range. Having Luma go less of a distance means the move just finishes quicker, and Rosalina herself is less open.

Not really the move was used to shoot luma out for more horizontal control of the screen. Shortening the distance shortens the effective range luma can control without rosa moving up a bit behind him. Also it removes a lot of punishing distance.

Easily rectified by using retreating Luma Shots, something I already did a lot of anyway.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

A fully charged Luma Shot goes the exact same distance in both 1.0.3 and 1.0.4. Luma even wanders around at the same speed. However, an uncharged shot goes noticeably shorter in 1.0.4, as established early on. Power Luma Shot is identical in both versions.

 

[felix45]

I noticed Nair does 7% instead of 10% . Knockback on Nair seems reduced.

Can anyone confirm if Nair hitbox has changed? Maybe because of the other changes I am seeing something that isn't there but it seems like the hitbox has gotten smaller.



You can definitely hit with luma while grabbed.

 

[KatKit]

She's the top tier that Smash deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So they will nerf her, because she can take it.

 

[ChikoLad]

She's the top tier that Smash deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So they will nerf her, because she can take it.

She honestly seems buffed overall, actually.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

She honestly seems buffed overall, actually.

The changes to some of her attacks can make you think otherwise though. The up smash, for example, is apparently less effective as a finisher without the Luma now; you'd have to build up your adversary's damage even further to get the KO.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well I'm downloading the patch to my brother's 3DS now, so I will test things before long.

 

[KatKit]

I know she's still very solid, I just wanted to poke fun of the nerfs with a Dark Knight parody quote.

 

[Clemente]

She honestly seems buffed overall, actually.

lol... what.

 

[Warlock*G]

lol... what.

Some "nerfs" might be buffs in disguise. For instance, less knockback on certain moves might lead to nasty combos... or they might not. Only practice will tell for sure.

 

[Clemente]

Some "nerfs" might be buffs in disguise. For instance, less knockback on certain moves might lead to nasty combos... or they might not. Only practice will tell for sure.

True, but not in this case. This seems like a straight up nerf no matter how you spin it. Hopefully there are more nerfs on the way for Rosalina & Luma, but these aren't a bad start.

 

[ChikoLad]

Some "nerfs" might be buffs in disguise. For instance, less knockback on certain moves might lead to nasty combos... or they might not. Only practice will tell for sure.

I can already tell you that N-air can easily link into dash attack now, which is great.

I'm completely fine with the reduced knockback on N-air because all of Rosalina's OTHER aerials were always far better for KOs. However, that was a slight problem at low percents, as it made follow ups more difficult. Now, N-air is capable of creating follow-ups, unlike before. So I consider the reduced knockback quite the buff - Rosalina has a new follow up. She didn't need N-Air to be a reliable KO move since she has plenty others.

Seriously, the only real nerfs here are the damage decrease on N-air, and the Luma respawn timer. The latter is non-issue if you're good.

As far as other changes, her grab definitely has more cooldown, but grabs are not a central part of her playstyle so I don't mind. Luma also cannot attack during THROW animations, but can still attack during grabs and other states where Rosalina is mobile (which is fine because it was really hard to hit people in throw animations anyway - now I can focus on vectoring).

Up Smas also launches at a bit of an angle now. I'm not sure if the knockback is necessarily decreased, but either way, it's still gonna be a KO move (I tested against Bowser, he still touches the top of the screen when hit by Rosalina's uncharged U-Smash at 100% - which means other characters would still go right off).

Down Smash might have more cooldown but I am unsure. If it does, it's not a very drastic difference.

In contrast, she's gotten some straight up buffs that are actually quite huge - Uncharged Luma Shot has a shorter distance (allowing for more varied spacing of Luma), Luma Shot has a LOT less cooldown (meaning it's a lot less punishable), and Luma returns to Rosalina WAY quicker when called back.

I think the positives outweigh, or at least balance out the negatives.

 

[icraq]

True, but not in this case. This seems like a straight up nerf no matter how you spin it. Hopefully there are more nerfs on the way for Rosalina & Luma, but these aren't a bad start.

Give it 6 months, if Smash 4 is still in early access every character will move at the speed of Bowser and rolls will cover FD. This is just the beginning.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

I tested endlag for all her regular attacks (in the case of aerials, landing lag) and the only one with any difference is Down Smash; it has less interruptibility. It's extremely easy to notice when you put the two versions side-by-side, but is otherwise quite minimal.

For special moves, the only with any interruptibility difference is Luma Shot. You can shield sooner out of Luma Shot in 1.0.4, so while it doesn't shoot as far when uncharged, it's more safe to perform.

All rolls and dodges are the same in both versions.

EDIT: A missed grab has less interruptibility in 1.0.4 as well, roughly the same difference as Down Smash.

 

[ChikoLad]

EDIT: A missed grab has less interruptibility in 1.0.4 as well, roughly the same difference as Down Smash.

Just to be clear, by interruptibility, you mean "cool down", or "end lag", right? And by "less" interruptibility, you mean "more" cool down?

I just got confused reading that at first.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Just to be clear, by interruptibility, you mean "cool down", or "end lag", right? And by "less" interruptibility, you mean "more" cool down?

I just got confused reading that at first.

Yes, less interruptibility means more cool down. Down Smash and a missed grab are less interruptible, which means you are forced to see more of the animation before you can do anything else (ie. interrupt the animation).

 

[DanGR]

Luma shot into jabs are... a really good spacing tool now. If the opponent shields the Luma shot, you just jab away. And rosalina's jabs cover rolls quite nicely with the shortened Luma shot range. If they jumped over Luma shot towards you, the decreased cooldown and increased Luma recall speed help in recovering back to neutral.

Nearly guaranteed followups from n-air spacing now is huge. I never really used it to kill anyways. Final feet hit of n-air-> grab ->uptilt-> juggling was a bread 'n butter combo at low percents that just got more reliable.

I'm interested in knowing if Luma's n-air hitbox/damage/knockback got changed at all. If so, perhaps we'll get some easier followups on SHFF autocanceled n-air (Luma hit only). It's already godly to SHFF autocanceled n-air (shielded)-> grab to cover the shield option.