nublet06
Smash Lord
I play with an up and coming marth player in so cal who is pretty amazing to say the least. The fact that i play him at least once a week i think i have become one of the better luigi's against marth's. i noticed in the poll of worst matchups marth completely destroyed everyone else, but hes actually one of my faorite characters to fight. So considering i need to log another hour into my lab for art class, ill spend as much of it as i can sharing some things that i know about the matchup.
#1 most important thing = sheild.
A - Marth has a huge sword. So first of all, the shield is going to help you not get hit by it. pretty sweet right? the best thing is that marth's best attack uses this sword. it also has a ton of lag. you shield an f smash, and you can simply wavedash out of your shield and get a free grab. that is too good.
B - you can waveshield. normally when you wavedash at someone they are not going to grab you. the average marth is going to attempt to whack you with his sword when you wavedash at him. its just natural instinct. so you wavedash with your shield up, they swing, you block, you shield grab. sometimes you will have to wavedash out of your shield for the grab. but you get the point right?
C - when you have your shield up marth can only grab you. when marth grabs you there isnt much he can do. if he forward throws you DI away. IF he down throws you DI away from him. if he up throws use air dodging, your second jump, and the fact that tornado slows you down a bit when you first use it ( it tricks them). plus tornado has plenty of priority to battle marth. if you have platforms then you are going to want to aim for those so that you can get your jump back. plus you can waveladn on them to get away faster. this is why i kind of dont like FD. harder to land when they up throw.
#2 = what to do once you grab
first of all hitting marth with your grab attack is kind of useless. dont do it. insead throw as fast as you can and try to get them before they DI.
A - at very low percent i like to chain grab the first throw. you can down throw marth, turn around, run and jump cancel grab him again. Does it always work? no, but i have done this to Ken so dont tell me its stupid and never works. it does only work for about one or two grabs and at the very lowest of percentages though. After that you can do a jump cancel up smash instad of the grab. This move is avoidable but as you can tell it works. or else i would not use it. so lets say you grab marth at 0%. i would recomend chain throwing with down throw 1 to 2 times, and on the third time use jump canceled up smash instead of grab. its not guaranteed, but its good and nice to know about.
B- at low to mid % you will want to up throw as fast as you can and follow it with a chop. this of course requires that you do it before they DI. good thing is they can only DI this move one way so the chances of you pulling this off are good.
C - at higher % you want to start using your down throw. if they DI toward you they will escape and you have to start over with chasing, if they dont DI you get a free aerial, if they DI away you get a free one. you can make some decisions on what you want to use. double back air works a lot, down air is good if they dont go too high, and chop works most of the time. Be aware that at higher percentage marth can wiggle out of this and fair you before you can hit him in the air. but i have played plenty of marths and the only ones that do this are my friend and Ken. if it becomes a problem you could predict it and shield grab them instead of hitting them. most of the time it should work though.
#3 most important thing = marth dies pretty easy.
A - wavedash forward tilt is your friend. marth has a lot of lag and luigi is very fast with his wavedashing. make the marth swing and miss and counter by wavedashing in with a forward tilt. it has a lot of knockback and doesnt send marth too high. marth needs a lot of height to recover so this is why this move morks well. tilts near the edge can go straight in to edge hogging, light shield gaurding, or just edge gaurding with more attacks.
#4 knowing how to edge gaurd.
A - learn how to light shield edge gaurd. its not that hard. roll into the level, hold z while rolling, DI towards the edge of the level to move your shield out over the edge.
B - wavedashing off the edge in to a back air. its super fast and after you kill wih it a few times the marth is going to be scared. this is also good because it will start making your opponent go low so that they do not get hit by it. once they start recovering low you can simply wavedash backwards and grab the ledge instead of going out with the back air, or light shield edge gaurd. roll off the edge and they die if they went too low.
C - full jump fast fall down air. it is possible to angle this move, and time it so that land on marth's head while he is recovering, and you dont get hit by his up b. This is tricky and you just have to get a feel for it. This is also good for get up attacks from a ledge. full jump at them, they miss the get up attack, and you fast fall on their head with your strongest aerial right next to the edge. too good.
#4 know how to use platforms, but try to stay on the ground.
wavelanding makes you super fast. BUT it also puts you at tip and fair range. learn how to use the ledges offensively but not for approaches. if you down throw marth under a platform he will land on it and you can chase him. i notice that most noob marths will automatically tech or roll away once thay have l landed on the platform. go chop them in the face. others might wait for you to jump up so that they can use their get up attack. wait for them to whif and then punish, or jump and hit them with a fast move like up air or sex kick and hit them before they can react. you get the idea right? This is basic mind games/tech chasing. You can also jump and waveland on the platform to grab them. this requires proper spacing and timing depending on their tech direction. be aware of getup attack on the platform.
Recovering
A - usually when you go low marth will just stay on the level and try to forward smash, down tilt, or spike your up b. LEARN TO TECH. expect to get hit every time you recover. marth is like the easiest character to tech against because you know that he wants to f smash you. get the timing down. but also pay attention to if he is down tilting or going to spike you. those are harder to tech.
B - the other thing they can do when you go low is edge hog. If you go too low they will simply roll and steal your edge. then you die. try to tornado if you can or else you are screwed.
C - if they edge hog and you are high enough to air dodge on to the level, DO IT. if you are at this range where you can air dodge up on to the level, that means you are in the danger zone. he is trying to ledge hop reverse spike you. if you dont know what i am talking about watch Mike Y's combo video. he likes to do this. air dodging is really the only way to avoid it. and heck, if you do get hit, DI towards the level and try to tech it. it wont hurt you to try. plus everyone watching your match will be like...oooooooh
D - recovering high? recovering high usually requires a top platform type stage. platform cancelling your side b can help. air-dodges and tornadoes.
kk well im done now. ill add more later if i want to. but this should help everyone a lot. Try to stay on the ground, keep you distance, grab a lot, punish lag, and dont challenge him in the air. you got this.
#1 most important thing = sheild.
A - Marth has a huge sword. So first of all, the shield is going to help you not get hit by it. pretty sweet right? the best thing is that marth's best attack uses this sword. it also has a ton of lag. you shield an f smash, and you can simply wavedash out of your shield and get a free grab. that is too good.
B - you can waveshield. normally when you wavedash at someone they are not going to grab you. the average marth is going to attempt to whack you with his sword when you wavedash at him. its just natural instinct. so you wavedash with your shield up, they swing, you block, you shield grab. sometimes you will have to wavedash out of your shield for the grab. but you get the point right?
C - when you have your shield up marth can only grab you. when marth grabs you there isnt much he can do. if he forward throws you DI away. IF he down throws you DI away from him. if he up throws use air dodging, your second jump, and the fact that tornado slows you down a bit when you first use it ( it tricks them). plus tornado has plenty of priority to battle marth. if you have platforms then you are going to want to aim for those so that you can get your jump back. plus you can waveladn on them to get away faster. this is why i kind of dont like FD. harder to land when they up throw.
#2 = what to do once you grab
first of all hitting marth with your grab attack is kind of useless. dont do it. insead throw as fast as you can and try to get them before they DI.
A - at very low percent i like to chain grab the first throw. you can down throw marth, turn around, run and jump cancel grab him again. Does it always work? no, but i have done this to Ken so dont tell me its stupid and never works. it does only work for about one or two grabs and at the very lowest of percentages though. After that you can do a jump cancel up smash instad of the grab. This move is avoidable but as you can tell it works. or else i would not use it. so lets say you grab marth at 0%. i would recomend chain throwing with down throw 1 to 2 times, and on the third time use jump canceled up smash instead of grab. its not guaranteed, but its good and nice to know about.
B- at low to mid % you will want to up throw as fast as you can and follow it with a chop. this of course requires that you do it before they DI. good thing is they can only DI this move one way so the chances of you pulling this off are good.
C - at higher % you want to start using your down throw. if they DI toward you they will escape and you have to start over with chasing, if they dont DI you get a free aerial, if they DI away you get a free one. you can make some decisions on what you want to use. double back air works a lot, down air is good if they dont go too high, and chop works most of the time. Be aware that at higher percentage marth can wiggle out of this and fair you before you can hit him in the air. but i have played plenty of marths and the only ones that do this are my friend and Ken. if it becomes a problem you could predict it and shield grab them instead of hitting them. most of the time it should work though.
#3 most important thing = marth dies pretty easy.
A - wavedash forward tilt is your friend. marth has a lot of lag and luigi is very fast with his wavedashing. make the marth swing and miss and counter by wavedashing in with a forward tilt. it has a lot of knockback and doesnt send marth too high. marth needs a lot of height to recover so this is why this move morks well. tilts near the edge can go straight in to edge hogging, light shield gaurding, or just edge gaurding with more attacks.
#4 knowing how to edge gaurd.
A - learn how to light shield edge gaurd. its not that hard. roll into the level, hold z while rolling, DI towards the edge of the level to move your shield out over the edge.
B - wavedashing off the edge in to a back air. its super fast and after you kill wih it a few times the marth is going to be scared. this is also good because it will start making your opponent go low so that they do not get hit by it. once they start recovering low you can simply wavedash backwards and grab the ledge instead of going out with the back air, or light shield edge gaurd. roll off the edge and they die if they went too low.
C - full jump fast fall down air. it is possible to angle this move, and time it so that land on marth's head while he is recovering, and you dont get hit by his up b. This is tricky and you just have to get a feel for it. This is also good for get up attacks from a ledge. full jump at them, they miss the get up attack, and you fast fall on their head with your strongest aerial right next to the edge. too good.
#4 know how to use platforms, but try to stay on the ground.
wavelanding makes you super fast. BUT it also puts you at tip and fair range. learn how to use the ledges offensively but not for approaches. if you down throw marth under a platform he will land on it and you can chase him. i notice that most noob marths will automatically tech or roll away once thay have l landed on the platform. go chop them in the face. others might wait for you to jump up so that they can use their get up attack. wait for them to whif and then punish, or jump and hit them with a fast move like up air or sex kick and hit them before they can react. you get the idea right? This is basic mind games/tech chasing. You can also jump and waveland on the platform to grab them. this requires proper spacing and timing depending on their tech direction. be aware of getup attack on the platform.
Recovering
A - usually when you go low marth will just stay on the level and try to forward smash, down tilt, or spike your up b. LEARN TO TECH. expect to get hit every time you recover. marth is like the easiest character to tech against because you know that he wants to f smash you. get the timing down. but also pay attention to if he is down tilting or going to spike you. those are harder to tech.
B - the other thing they can do when you go low is edge hog. If you go too low they will simply roll and steal your edge. then you die. try to tornado if you can or else you are screwed.
C - if they edge hog and you are high enough to air dodge on to the level, DO IT. if you are at this range where you can air dodge up on to the level, that means you are in the danger zone. he is trying to ledge hop reverse spike you. if you dont know what i am talking about watch Mike Y's combo video. he likes to do this. air dodging is really the only way to avoid it. and heck, if you do get hit, DI towards the level and try to tech it. it wont hurt you to try. plus everyone watching your match will be like...oooooooh
D - recovering high? recovering high usually requires a top platform type stage. platform cancelling your side b can help. air-dodges and tornadoes.
kk well im done now. ill add more later if i want to. but this should help everyone a lot. Try to stay on the ground, keep you distance, grab a lot, punish lag, and dont challenge him in the air. you got this.
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