ROFL tells you how to beat marth.

nublet06

Smash Lord
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#1
I play with an up and coming marth player in so cal who is pretty amazing to say the least. The fact that i play him at least once a week i think i have become one of the better luigi's against marth's. i noticed in the poll of worst matchups marth completely destroyed everyone else, but hes actually one of my faorite characters to fight. So considering i need to log another hour into my lab for art class, ill spend as much of it as i can sharing some things that i know about the matchup.

#1 most important thing = sheild.
A - Marth has a huge sword. So first of all, the shield is going to help you not get hit by it. pretty sweet right? the best thing is that marth's best attack uses this sword. it also has a ton of lag. you shield an f smash, and you can simply wavedash out of your shield and get a free grab. that is too good.

B - you can waveshield. normally when you wavedash at someone they are not going to grab you. the average marth is going to attempt to whack you with his sword when you wavedash at him. its just natural instinct. so you wavedash with your shield up, they swing, you block, you shield grab. sometimes you will have to wavedash out of your shield for the grab. but you get the point right?

C - when you have your shield up marth can only grab you. when marth grabs you there isnt much he can do. if he forward throws you DI away. IF he down throws you DI away from him. if he up throws use air dodging, your second jump, and the fact that tornado slows you down a bit when you first use it ( it tricks them). plus tornado has plenty of priority to battle marth. if you have platforms then you are going to want to aim for those so that you can get your jump back. plus you can waveladn on them to get away faster. this is why i kind of dont like FD. harder to land when they up throw.

#2 = what to do once you grab
first of all hitting marth with your grab attack is kind of useless. dont do it. insead throw as fast as you can and try to get them before they DI.

A - at very low percent i like to chain grab the first throw. you can down throw marth, turn around, run and jump cancel grab him again. Does it always work? no, but i have done this to Ken so dont tell me its stupid and never works. it does only work for about one or two grabs and at the very lowest of percentages though. After that you can do a jump cancel up smash instad of the grab. This move is avoidable but as you can tell it works. or else i would not use it. so lets say you grab marth at 0%. i would recomend chain throwing with down throw 1 to 2 times, and on the third time use jump canceled up smash instead of grab. its not guaranteed, but its good and nice to know about.

B- at low to mid % you will want to up throw as fast as you can and follow it with a chop. this of course requires that you do it before they DI. good thing is they can only DI this move one way so the chances of you pulling this off are good.

C - at higher % you want to start using your down throw. if they DI toward you they will escape and you have to start over with chasing, if they dont DI you get a free aerial, if they DI away you get a free one. you can make some decisions on what you want to use. double back air works a lot, down air is good if they dont go too high, and chop works most of the time. Be aware that at higher percentage marth can wiggle out of this and fair you before you can hit him in the air. but i have played plenty of marths and the only ones that do this are my friend and Ken. if it becomes a problem you could predict it and shield grab them instead of hitting them. most of the time it should work though.

#3 most important thing = marth dies pretty easy.
A - wavedash forward tilt is your friend. marth has a lot of lag and luigi is very fast with his wavedashing. make the marth swing and miss and counter by wavedashing in with a forward tilt. it has a lot of knockback and doesnt send marth too high. marth needs a lot of height to recover so this is why this move morks well. tilts near the edge can go straight in to edge hogging, light shield gaurding, or just edge gaurding with more attacks.

#4 knowing how to edge gaurd.
A - learn how to light shield edge gaurd. its not that hard. roll into the level, hold z while rolling, DI towards the edge of the level to move your shield out over the edge.

B - wavedashing off the edge in to a back air. its super fast and after you kill wih it a few times the marth is going to be scared. this is also good because it will start making your opponent go low so that they do not get hit by it. once they start recovering low you can simply wavedash backwards and grab the ledge instead of going out with the back air, or light shield edge gaurd. roll off the edge and they die if they went too low.

C - full jump fast fall down air. it is possible to angle this move, and time it so that land on marth's head while he is recovering, and you dont get hit by his up b. This is tricky and you just have to get a feel for it. This is also good for get up attacks from a ledge. full jump at them, they miss the get up attack, and you fast fall on their head with your strongest aerial right next to the edge. too good.

#4 know how to use platforms, but try to stay on the ground.
wavelanding makes you super fast. BUT it also puts you at tip and fair range. learn how to use the ledges offensively but not for approaches. if you down throw marth under a platform he will land on it and you can chase him. i notice that most noob marths will automatically tech or roll away once thay have l landed on the platform. go chop them in the face. others might wait for you to jump up so that they can use their get up attack. wait for them to whif and then punish, or jump and hit them with a fast move like up air or sex kick and hit them before they can react. you get the idea right? This is basic mind games/tech chasing. You can also jump and waveland on the platform to grab them. this requires proper spacing and timing depending on their tech direction. be aware of getup attack on the platform.

Recovering
A - usually when you go low marth will just stay on the level and try to forward smash, down tilt, or spike your up b. LEARN TO TECH. expect to get hit every time you recover. marth is like the easiest character to tech against because you know that he wants to f smash you. get the timing down. but also pay attention to if he is down tilting or going to spike you. those are harder to tech.

B - the other thing they can do when you go low is edge hog. If you go too low they will simply roll and steal your edge. then you die. try to tornado if you can or else you are screwed.

C - if they edge hog and you are high enough to air dodge on to the level, DO IT. if you are at this range where you can air dodge up on to the level, that means you are in the danger zone. he is trying to ledge hop reverse spike you. if you dont know what i am talking about watch Mike Y's combo video. he likes to do this. air dodging is really the only way to avoid it. and heck, if you do get hit, DI towards the level and try to tech it. it wont hurt you to try. plus everyone watching your match will be like...oooooooh

D - recovering high? recovering high usually requires a top platform type stage. platform cancelling your side b can help. air-dodges and tornadoes.

kk well im done now. ill add more later if i want to. but this should help everyone a lot. Try to stay on the ground, keep you distance, grab a lot, punish lag, and dont challenge him in the air. you got this.
 
Last edited:

Gimpyfish62

Banned (62 points)
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#3
i'll do bowser's right now

step one: lose

thats all

haha i dont even know who this guy is but i suppose this is pretty useful to a luigi player probably lol
 

Pr0jecT

Smash Ace
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#4
Bowzer really cant err.. Wavedash outa his shield too well to like grab if his Fsmash kinda pushs him away and like. His wavedash barely even moves him O_o
 

dude225

Smash Apprentice
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Jul 26, 2006
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Palmdale
#5
well being a marth player, i know exactly what this guy is talking about, and i know that most of this stuff would work... and trust him when he says that BoA is a great marth, he used to fight Ken on a regular basis...

i cant say if he is the best luigi in america or not, but he is high up there, and what harm can any of this do? its just advice, and good advice at that... so i recommend that every luigi read this, and marth too if they arent good enough to know this already...

and thanks for the tips ROFL, now everyone knows how to beat ur style of luigi lol
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
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Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
#7
Good stuff ROFL.

Let's not kid ourselves, Marth is still one of (if not the worst) matchups for Luigi. But with this miniguide hopefully fighting one won't be quite so demoralizing.
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
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#8
LoL nah im not the best luigi in america. Kens luigi is prolly better than mine. Azen for sure. and there are plenty of west coast luigis that are just as good as me. i like to think im the best on my block tho :p

id have to say that west coast prolly has the best luigis for sure tho. Ka master, meep, ultra luigi, kev money, ken, me, dsf uses him sometimes. east coast has azen tho. pretty scary.
 

dude225

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#9
dont be modest... teba seems to think so... but then again, it IS teba, lol he will say anything nice... : )
 
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#12
Haven't we decided that Azen doesn't count...for anything? XD. That's like basing Mewtwo's tier crap on Taj's performance with him. It just doesn't work.

Anyways, awesome guide. I definately agree with the shielding part. Though I am kind of curious as to how you would beat a Marth that like never f-smashed, and just like super spammed f-airs the entire match.
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
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#13
a marth that doesnt f smash? :p thats like trying to figure out how to beat a falco that doesnt short hop laser.

if they spammed fair you could still wavedash at them with shield up and grab them when they land. they could up b when they landed and it would cut your face off. but they are not likely to do that every time so you will still get your grabs in.

another thing to do (a lot harder and not good agaisnt the better marth mains because they like to wait for people to side step) is wavedash to side step. then jab when your side step is over with, and grab them or smash. if you try any move besides jab it would be a little trickier because marth doesnt have much lag in between his fairs.

also when you do get hit by the fairs as long as you DI away you should be fine. because luigi can be hard to ken combo with proper DI. even if they F tilt....you still get a grab. lol...and who doesnt f smash.
 

Jekyll

Smash Ace
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Aug 3, 2005
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Redwood City, CA
#14
I've experienced a marth that just spammed the fair...It wasn't fun, to say the least. That's pretty good advice.

What would you say about a Marth that ONLY CCd dtilts? It pretty much nullifies anything that you do to them since only a grab will get him off of the ground before 50%-ish, and you can't really get inside of the dtilt's range to get that.
 

nublet06

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#16
I've experienced a marth that just spammed the fair...It wasn't fun, to say the least. That's pretty good advice.

What would you say about a Marth that ONLY CCd dtilts? It pretty much nullifies anything that you do to them since only a grab will get him off of the ground before 50%-ish, and you can't really get inside of the dtilt's range to get that.
This is dangerous because he will space you with down tilt and if you try to jump over it he will f smash you.

you can shoot him with some fireballs to piss him off or make him get up and start moving....

OR you can utuilize luigi's wonderful tornado. if you just tornado at marth most of Marth's moves will still hut you. BUT if you short hop and land with a tornado that was started in the air......it will our prioritize any of marths moves.

short hop....fast fall a tornado and slide into the marth. your tornado will cancel out his down tilt and you have the element of surprise on your side. take advantage of the split second after your moves hit to get him before he gets you. grab him....down smash....jump and dair him. whatever you feel fits the situation. personally i think you should grab marth as much as you can so i would prolly do that. but the moves cancel out so fast that Marth wont be able to react in time when you counter attack him after the moves cancel out. its too good. the nado will even cancel out the F smash if you jump first.
 

JTB

Live for the applause
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#17
You should make a Shiek guide since you also have Aesis and Teba to play against ;)
 

nublet06

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#18
i would do that but im not sure if i have enough experience to make such a detailed thread. BoA comes over after school a lot and we play, but Teba gets picked up by his parents and cant play with us as much. Plus aesis is in UCLA. Ill try my best to play a bunch of matches with teba over winter break and maybe i can put something together.

does anyone want to write a guide for beating peach and samus? lol i struggle with those floaty *******s.

with enough of these we could make a thread and copy all of the info for an official character matchup help list.
 

luigismash294

Smash Rookie
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#19
I've experienced a marth that just spammed the fair...It wasn't fun, to say the least. That's pretty good advice.

What would you say about a Marth that ONLY CCd dtilts? It pretty much nullifies anything that you do to them since only a grab will get him off of the ground before 50%-ish, and you can't really get inside of the dtilt's range to get that.
You know that you can try roll dodging sometimes. And if you think that they will turn around to hit you right away go for a spot dodge right after the roll, or just keep your shield up.

So mix up your wavedashing with some roll dodges here and there- it might lead to something
 

StripesOrBars

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#20
This is an excellent guide actually.

Unless the Marth player can pivot perfectly.

However, very few Marth's can pivot(probably like 10 in the US), and the ones that can pivot completely null this guide.
 
Joined
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#21
Hmm...I was referring to Sas' Marth, who I played in a tourney, and didn't have too much trouble with, but he like never ever f-smashed, lol. It was pretty wierd.

Anyways, a Peach guide you say? Hmm...thanks to playing Sas and a few other Peach mains a lot more recently, maybe I should look into that. At least come up with a decent amount of tips, I could.. >_>
 

Gimpyfish62

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#22
ya and i could make a bowser vs peach guide because i know thats what all of you luigi players want...

(why do i post in the non bowser boards ever, all of my posts relate directly to bowser matchups, oh wells)
 
Joined
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#26
lol man, it worked real, i almost dint lost, i won almost all the matches, nice tips. I lost when i was starting to use tactics, but when i get it, i started to win over and over again.. thanks man.
 

Randall00

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#27
Proposed New Rule: Peach players are now banned from using the A button!

OR you can utuilize luigi's wonderful tornado. if you just tornado at marth most of Marth's moves will still hut you. BUT if you short hop and land with a tornado that was started in the air......it will our prioritize any of marths moves.

short hop....fast fall a tornado and slide into the marth. your tornado will cancel out his down tilt and you have the element of surprise on your side. take advantage of the split second after your moves hit to get him before he gets you. grab him....down smash....jump and dair him. whatever you feel fits the situation. personally i think you should grab marth as much as you can so i would prolly do that. but the moves cancel out so fast that Marth wont be able to react in time when you counter attack him after the moves cancel out. its too good. the nado will even cancel out the F smash if you jump first.
That's an excellent little guide all around. I'm sure the Marths I'm playing aren't as skilled as your SoCal competition, but I've never had that many problems with this match either and it's particularly reassuring to see that the same tactics work on two different skill brackets to some degree. The short-hopped tornado approach is something I've been enjoying in Marth matchups since long before I could even wavedash.

Anyways, a Peach guide you say? Hmm...thanks to playing Sas and a few other Peach mains a lot more recently, maybe I should look into that. At least come up with a decent amount of tips, I could.. >_>
Please, please, I'll take anything, even a notepad file with 6 bullet points. :) Peach is a cold, heartless murderer.
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
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#28
Ultra luigi could help out with that. hes really good on peaches. last tournament i went to i watched him play a few matches and it helped me a lot. i beat a guy that always counter picks me with peach, and i got edrees to 1 stock where he normally 3 stocks me. lol.

ultra would use his jabs a lot. plus he is crazy with finding up b opportunities. those are the only 2 things i was able to pick up on tho. i only watched like 2 matches. i think he used sex kick a lot too.
 

divine knight

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#31
Please, please, I'll take anything, even a notepad file with 6 bullet points. :) Peach is a cold, heartless murderer.
haha. My friend and i won a doubles tourni with peach^2 just the other day. :p
but my main is luigi.


hmmm.
if someone started a thread i could throw in a few pointers. My friend is one of the best peaches in canada ?! lol i have no idea, but we friendly a lot.
 

iankobe

Smash Lord
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Dec 25, 2005
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Los Angeles, CA
#32
I love this guide! I've personally seen ROFL's Luigi fighting against Marths. Well I also played with ROFL before too.

Anyway, great guide for Luigi users.
 

Masterfelix5

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Messages
4
#34
I know most of these things
Both my brothers use Marth so I have lots of pratice against Marth
I often just quick dodge then attack them with a ftilt
My brother hates my ftilt lol
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
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#36
jay is actually pretty crazy with marth agaisnt luigi. he understands edgegaurding a lot better than most of the marths who just stay on the level and try to smash or tilt. still tho, this stuff will help a lot. sometimes i find myself forgetting my own tactics and i look at this lol.
 
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