Data Robin Patch Notes 1.1.1 (WIP)

[Raziek]

As usual, be sure to test thoroughly and be very specific with the language you are using.

If you have multiple versions of the game to test on, fantastic!

If you can CONFIRM something, please state so.

If you THINK something has changed, please indicate that, and ask someone else to see if things have changed. Do not post 'speculative' changes in other places on the boards, or I'll personally find you and slap you.

Finally, if you THINK Arcfire got easier to DI out of, you're probably wrong, as people think that EVERY PATCH.
If you think Thoron got nerfed, you're probably wrong, as people think that EVERY PATCH.

At any rate, get hype!

http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/

Above is the link to the official thread in Metagame discussion.

Here's the info we have so far:

Robin has a lot of random bit changes and some interesting frame speed multiplier changes, but nothing directly on attacks or hitboxes. I doubt it's a change to charge up speed, but it's possible and deserves investigation. Nosfertu could be it too, but it's probably something unimportant.

 

[Raziek]

Save us Linkshot <3

 

[akidnamedrios]

I got up to test some stuff out for about ten minutes. It feels like Robin's aerials have less landing lag for everything except nair. To me, it just feels so. Haven't confirmed and I don't have time to confirm it at the moment, but I'm just going to throw that out there :3

 

[Raziek]

I got up to test some stuff out for about ten minutes. It feels like Robin's aerials have less landing lag for everything except nair. To me, it just feels so. Haven't confirmed and I don't have time to confirm it at the moment, but I'm just going to throw that out there :3

Definitely not true, unfortunately.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Edit: Lol, learn 2 read, Fieryrebirth

 

[Linkshot]

Poked my head out of the woodwork and got immediately pointed to where I wanted to look <3 thanks

didn't find the data dump (Thinkaman talks mystically about it but never drops a link to it) but it sounds like Robin still has last patch's Arcthunder buff on top of the global shield stun increase, though I wonder if ISSDI was made more potent to compensate.

 

[ThatRandomGuy42]

I'm feeling a lot of different things. I'm most likely imagining it, but some of Robin's attacks feel faster.

 

[akidnamedrios]

I'm feeling a lot of different things. I'm most likely imagining it, but some of Robin's attacks feel faster.

That's exactly what I said, but I was told no..

 

[Mr. Johan]

Finally, if you THINK Arcfire got easier to DI out of, you're probably wrong, as people think that EVERY PATCH.

Ironically, Arcfire may be harder to escape out of now if blocked, thanks to shield stun increase across the board.

May be worthwhile to opponents to simply take the hit and bounce out if they get trapped, lol.

Shield stun increase also affects our Jab 1 and Jab 2, making it harder to impossible to punish out of shield, and Wind Jab and especially Fire Jab are even safer.

Dath and I also tested Usmash and it seems the strong hit received an increase in size in the lower portion of the hitbox. What would always sourspot on the likes of Olimar and Toon Link before if they were standing right next to Robin before will sweetspot now.

 

[ThatRandomGuy42]

Ironically, Arcfire may be harder to escape out of now if blocked, thanks to shield stun increase across the board.

May be worthwhile to opponents to simply take the hit and bounce out if they get trapped, lol.

Shield stun increase also affects our Jab 1 and Jab 2, making it harder to impossible to punish out of shield, and Wind Jab and especially Fire Jab are even safer.

Dath and I also tested Usmash and it seems the strong hit received an increase in size in the lower portion of the hitbox. What would always sourspot on the likes of Olimar and Toon Link before if they were standing right next to Robin before will sweetspot now.

So the shield stun made all our jabs safer?
I can dig it.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Dath and I also tested Usmash and it seems the strong hit received an increase in size in the lower portion of the hitbox. What would always sourspot on the likes of Olimar and Toon Link before if they were standing right next to Robin before will sweetspot now.

So Robin's USmash is slightly more like Marth/Lucina's? I may be exaggerating but that is amazing news. If there is a Usmash I envy it's theirs.

 

[PK Gaming]

Jesus christ, if our stuff is more safe on shield then our offense just got better

Like, WAY better

 

[Altais]

I'll definitely be exploring Robin's (possible) changes today, once I get home from school.

 

[Centicerise]

Data dump for Robin:
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/144-to-160/reflet

 

[Raziek]

Data dump for Robin:
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/144-to-160/reflet

Linkshot

--------

My initial thoughts on the shield stun changes:

Global increase in shield stun is a huge double-edged sword for us.

On the positive side, this makes a large number of our moves a lot harder to punish out of shield. Jab and Arcfire are likely the biggest winners, but basically everything Bronze should benefit from the increase in minimum shieldstun as well.

Further, depending on how the shield stun scales and how it interacts with hitlag multipliers, this potentially makes our already high-shieldstun/pushback moves like our Smashes and Aerials safer. This is potentially a HUGE DEAL. Bair being 3 or 4 frames safer on shield could be crazy, if that's how it pans out.

The NEGATIVE side of this is that our already poor OoS options are only going to get worse. If everything everyone else has is now safe on shield, this makes us even weaker defensively than before. (Something we used to be able to Jab OoS or shieldgrab, maybe now we can't)

This is going to change the game a lot, and we'll have to see how things pan out.

 

[Linkshot]

What I notice immediately is that everything electric (Levin and Thunder) got a shift from ...77 to ...79, including in sounds and effects, so maybe there were some inconsistencies they're patching up? Worth noting that Nosferatu got a shift from ...78 to ...7a (one unit shifted ahead of the electric stuff btw) but the successful grab on it went from ...7d to ...7f in sounds only.

Don't see any size increases on uSmash, but maybe there was an attribute change to Olimar/Toon Link that makes it harder for them to low-profile.

Finally, looks like MAYBE your back roll and airdodge go intang a frame sooner.

 

[C0rvus]

Well I'm interested to see how the new shieldstun mechanics work with Levin. Late Fair to grab guaranteed? jk. But it could be significant. Levin moves tend to have pretty high hitlag.

 

[Blakexd9]

I didn't test it a lot, but it looks like when Arcthunder hits a shield they are stuck in shield until the very end. Same with Arcfire.

Going to be honest, I don't remember if this was present last patch. If this is true these are completely free grabs/amazing shield pressure (imagine the possibilities with a book). I found last patch people rolled out of Arcthunder and Arcfire easily but I can't recall if that was in the middle of the move or at the end.

 

[Zareidriel]

Let's try to put this in perspective. Assuming Shaya's shieldstun formulas are correct: "[(damage / 1.8)+3] over (damage/2.56)"

A Sbair does 15 damage.

Old shieldstun = (15/2.56) = 5.8 (Frames?)

New shieldstun = [(15/1.8) +3)] = 11.3 (Frames?)

So assuming our assumptions are correct, our Sbair is nearly TWICE as safe on shield as it was before. This is HUGE!

Robin's high-damge Levin aerials and somewhat shield-battering salvo style seems to compliment the changes well compared to characters with lighter, faster aerials and attacks, as far as shields are concerned. Sure we'll take a hit on defense, but I think the scales have tipped in our favor.

It's also needless to say this also greatly empowers perfect-shielding.

 

[Altais]

Haven't noticed any differences yet. Robin's fire jab STILL isn't a true combo, much to mine disappointment. Was hoping Robin's ground smash attacks would get reduced start & end lag.

I didn't test it a lot, but it looks like when Arcthunder hits a shield they are stuck in shield until the very end. Same with Arcfire.

Tested this in training mode. I was able to roll out of Arcfire and Arcthunder before the flame/bolt disappeared.

 

[Silent Dragonfly]

Just been linked to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3hAFEJmeoU

Victory pose buffed This possibly accounts for changes in the datadump?

 

[TheHypnotoad]

The changes to shieldstun seem to have massive applications for Robin. Specifically, this means that Arcthunder and Arcfire are way better now. Previously, I had a large problem with them in that if someone shielded it, they could just roll away and not suffer any repercussions. But now they're stuck in shield, meaning we could potentially get a free grab or free Nosferatu even if they shield it.

Tested this in training mode. I was able to roll out of Arcfire and Arcthunder before the flame/bolt disappeared.

However, this makes me nervous. Do you have a video of this?

 

[C0rvus]

I tried Arcfire on shields in training mode. It will detonate on a shield, but it is far from enough to lock players down. In fact, it seemed like you don't even have to shield it after the first hit (until the final hit, but the point stands). Was this always the case? Like I cannot get the move to do its mulit-hit thing on a shield. It just goes off and sits right outside the shield while it burns. Hopefully this is just me waffling things but I don't see it being super useful.

Arcthunder on the other hand, that move just keeps getting better and better.

 

[Raziek]

On someone who is standing still and has the flame ignite farther awayaway, this won't change much. On a deep hit (someone running toward you), this should prevent a roll/spot Dodge during Arcfire's duration.

Haven't verified my theory yet to be certain, but that should be how the mechanics work.

 

[Raziek]

Let's try to put this in perspective. Assuming Shaya's shieldstun formulas are correct: "[(damage / 1.8)+3] over (damage/2.56)"

A Sbair does 15 damage.

Old shieldstun = (15/2.56) = 5.8 (Frames?)

New shieldstun = [(15/1.8) +3)] = 11.3 (Frames?)

So assuming our assumptions are correct, our Sbair is nearly TWICE as safe on shield as it was before. This is HUGE!

Robin's high-damge Levin aerials and somewhat shield-battering salvo style seems to compliment the changes well compared to characters with lighter, faster aerials and attacks, as far as shields are concerned. Sure we'll take a hit on defense, but I think the scales have tipped in our favor.

It's also needless to say this also greatly empowers perfect-shielding.

Also if this is correct, I think Fair Uair and Bair are probably all safe on shield if well spaced.

The fact that we are electric attacks could cause that to interact weirdly, however.

 

[Linkshot]

I don't think Hitlag has any bearing on shieldstun, don't worry.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Would that make short-hop LSFair a viable poking tool if properly aimed, like we currently use SH Nair for?

 

[Raziek]

Would that make short-hop LSFair a viable poking tool if properly aimed, like we currently use SH Nair for?

Very possible, if the added shield stun is sufficient enough.

 

[_Shinta_]

Im at work so can't test, but Im curious if we have the ability to break shields reliably. Like an Arc thunder (or even arc fire) to Fsmash or Book toss etc. Or maybe the Elwind jab breaks shield now as supposed to pokes and attacks opponent?

I suppose this makes that new Elwind Cancel tech able to land on opponents easier assuming the it's performed right.

Do we still freefall after landing Nosferatu in the air? I assume so since no one is talking about Nos changes

 

[Raziek]

Yes, Nos still goes helpless.

 

[_Shinta_]

Yes, Nos still goes helpless.

Aw, sad face. It would be pretty awesome if we snatch someone midair then we both go helpless a las Luma's free fall. One can dream though.

 

[Chapter Serf]

When you say changes to shield stun, what exactly are you referring to?

Is it easier (or harder) to break shields? Does the stun from the shield being broken last longer (or shorter)?

 

[Raziek]

When you say changes to shield stun, what exactly are you referring to?

Is it easier (or harder) to break shields? Does the stun from the shield being broken last longer (or shorter)?

Shield stun is the amount of time someone is forced to stay in their shield after blocking a move. (The time before they are allowed to drop their shield or perform another action)

Shield stun has been globally increased this patch, so many moves now keep the opponent in shield longer before they are allowed to act, making those moves much safer than before.

Indirectly, this makes it easier to break shields, as not only must an opponent keep their shield up longer each time it is hit, but some characters will most likely have strings that allow them to blockstring and break a shield that way.

A blockstring is a series of moves with has enough shield stun (or block stun, in other fighting games) that there is no gaps between the attacks, and the opponent must remain in their shield for the entire string, once the first move connects.

 

[Mr. Johan]

A clear example of a blockstring Robin has is Arcthunder -> thrown tome. The opponent is locked in shield thanks to the Arcthunder and so is forced to take the hit from the book as well.

As for Levin aerials being safer due to electric effects, Pikachu received notable increases in shield stun with some of his premier electric moves, so the same should be the same for us. Fair, Bair, and Uair from below a platform may be safer than we first thought.

 

[Teshie U]

A clear example of a blockstring Robin has is Arcthunder -> thrown tome. The opponent is locked in shield thanks to the Arcthunder and so is forced to take the hit from the book as well.

As for Levin aerials being safer due to electric effects, Pikachu received notable increases in shield stun with some of his premier electric moves, so the same should be the same for us. Fair, Bair, and Uair from below a platform may be safer than we first thought.

I was just trying to lab this and its way better now? Does this mean Arc thunder into book throw into instant toss book throw is a blockstring?

 

[Avokha]

Regarding shieldlocks/blockstrings;

 

[PK Gaming]

SH Levin Sword aerials are the real deal now

Dying to see how good Robin's implement this into their game

 

[Daxter]

Arcthunder, and things like the Checkmate, just became even more paramount to our games. Are we going to become more predictable this way? :o

 

[Nah]

Are Levin aerials really that safe on shield now? They were hella unsafe on shield before and I kinda doubt that this shieldstun increase is really going to make them actually safe.

Arcthunder I can see being really good with this though (like lol are they just gonna keep buffing Arcthunder or something? it keeps getting better and better. are they gonna make it kill at 100% by itself with no rage next or something?)

 

[FieryRebirth]

I probably still won't use Levin aerials on opponents who see it coming and typically just Nosferatu as usual. Eventually people will find ways to avoid shield stun or just spotdodge.