[RMT] Stalling Takes No Skill

[Gates]

Got back on Shoddy again cause I just can't seem to quit it. I tried making an offensive team and it didn't work well. Then I made this team and it worked a lot better.

King Dedede (Empoleon) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 156 HP/100 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Aqua Jet
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam

Good lead but even better when he survives until the late game. Ice Beam is used here over Grass Knot to deal with dragons that pop up from time to time. The only dragon that's used as a lead is Dragonite, but Empoleon is so bulky that there's a good chance of him surviving until the late game even after taking a Swampert EQ, so it's not uncommon for him to use Ice Beam to take out things like Mence or Flygons that are locked into Outrage. He can also revenge kill late game with Hydro Pump and Aqua Jet.

Topless Girl (Machamp) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dynamicpunch
- Payback
- Stone Edge

Machamp is my MVP. I breifly thought about switching her out for Breloom to have access to sleep, but then I remembered how many times Machamp had saved my *** thanks to Stone Edge or how good it was to get a DynamicPunch on boosters to get in a quick win. Sadly though, this is the only physical attacker on my team and if she dies Blissey becomes a much bigger problem.

Skarmory (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 224 HP/252 Def/32 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Flamethrower
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss

Yes, my Blissey is named "Skarmory" and my Skarmory named "Blissey". Why? lulz Mindgames.

The EVs of this are designed to make it so that Flamethrower kills Scizor 100% of the time. This may sound pointless since Scizor is faster than Blissey and OHKOs 100% of the time with Superpower. However, the amount of times Scizors have actually used Superpower against my Blissey is minimal. They usually predict a switch to something else and anticipate it with Bullet Punch, Pursuit, or Swords Dance. This allows me to punish their mispredict and kill it with fire. A risky move that I know I'm going to get flamed for (no pun intended) but it's worked so far.

Originally this was an Aromatherapy Blissey but I changed it to Seismic Toss to help against other special walls and eliminate subs to clear the way for TWave.

Blissey (Skarmory) (F) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/108 Spd/148 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Whirlwind

You know what the best part about this set is? I get all the best parts about Skarmory and don't have to invest EVs in attack. You know what the worst part about this set is? No attacks makes it hard against faster taunters and no Brave Bird specifically makes it hard to deal with Machamp. It's a risky tradeoff but so far it hasn't hurt me more than once.

Albi (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Recover
- Draco Meteor

This racist dragon has been working quite well for me. Most Latias use DP as their STAB, but Draco Meteor was something that I tested on a whim and it turned out that it payed off quite well. In the long run Draco Meteor hurts more than it helps, but Calm Mind helps alleviate that a lot. If I get even one boost, a -1 Draco Meteor still does more damage than an unboosted Dragon Pulse against other dragons and she retains the SpD boost which helps her ability as a backup special tank. +6 Surf and Draco Meteor can also 3HKO (Surf, DM, DM) +6 CroCune if you do it after they Rest (and yes, this is something that has actually come up).

Hot Pocket (Rotom-h) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/164 Def/92 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Discharge
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Will-o-wisp

I prefer Discharge to both TBolt and TWave because it has a better chance of paralysis than TBolt and unlike TWave it actually does damage, which is generally the main way you win the game (the other way being to go on an internet forum and convince them that your team is better than theirs by playing Theorymon - "Gotta 6-0 'em all, Theorymon!"). The rest is fairly standard - I have a little extra speed to break speed ties with the other standard Rotom builds.

This team has worked very well for me. Thoughts?

 

[Wave⁂]

No status on Blissey? Whuh?

No HP Fire on Latias? Whuh?

 

[supermarth64]

Lol, Gates managed to mind game annoying with Blissey.

 

[Gates]

lol check the list again annoying. I'll put in pics to make it less confusing.

What would I take out for HP Fire exactly? Surf is great, Recover is good, if I take out Draco Meteor it'll be for DP, and Calm Mind is kind of required. HP Fire could help me against most steels, but without it Heatran can just swich in and DP. Surf has also helped a lot against TTar and other random ground, rock, and steel pokes.

 

[Wave⁂]

Give both Blisseys Toxic

Best team ever

EDIT: Yeah, looks like you don't have a reliable ScarfTran counter. Nevermind, then.

 

[Gates]

ScarfTran is usually just about predicting what he's going to do and countering accordingly. SubTran is what really gives me nightmares. I'm never sure if they'll have DP, Explosion, Torment, Taunt, or some other crazy ****. I think sub is used on just about every non-choice non-LO Heatran set.

And I'm really liking TWave more than Toxic right now since the biggest factors in the metagame are either steel/poison and immune (Scizor, Heatran, Jirachi, Metagross, Lucario, Skarmory, Magnezone, Forretress, Tentacruel), have high speed (Salamence, ScarfAnything, Latias, Gyarados, Gengar, Infernape, Azelf, Togekiss), or are somehow able to shed the status (other Blisseys, Starmie, resttalkers, cleric pokemon like Celebi). TWave, on the other hand, only misses 6 pokemon aside from the aforementioned status shedders - Swampert, Gliscor, Flygon, Jolteon, Hippowdon, and Electivire. The ability to stall is reduced but the ability to set up for a Latias or Machamp sweep is increased.

Also, I added pics to clarify things.

 

[Wave⁂]

I've used LO SubTran before, and it's not that bad.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, it's not bad, just fragile.

But anyway, the point is I can't deal with it.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

If the point is to stall, why use Hydro Pump on Empoleon? Surf is more accurate and all.

-Terywj

 

[Gates]

With Surf you need to rearrange the EVs to put more in Atk in order to 2HKO Azelf, Tyranitar, and Forretress with Surf+Aqua Jet 100% of the time. You also won't be able to 2HKO the typical TrickLeadJirachi, Uxie (I've seen them in OU), Skarmory, and Bronzong wheras with Hydro Pump you can. Surf also doesn't OHKO Hippowdon as consistently - there's a chance to OHKO but it's quite small. And with either you still lose to Metagross with EQ and BP (but survive against ones that only have Meteor Mash), Infernape with CC, Swampert, Roserade, most Smeargle (it can beat the ones who don't use Spore and I'm sure there's some that exist), Breloom, Mamoswine, Electrode, Gyarados, Starmie, and Machamp (I know listing all those pokemon make it seem like this is a terrible lead but it's not trust me).

The main argument for Hydro Pump is that its pure power is enough to 2HKO almost every lead in the meta when combined with Aqua Jet and that because of this its lack of accuracy compared to Surf is worth the trade.

 

[Reigned]

Seems like the standard Stall which is easy to make and easy to win with which is favorable for alot of players. You have pretty much everything you need but I am questioning both Machamp and Empoleon. How do they fit into stall? A lead I've found great success with is Swampert who checks alot of things who can hurt stall, just play the standard 252 Def and HP set with a Relaxed nature and it can also provide a check most of the time to Salamence. Honestly there are 100 things that can replace Machamp since there's always one slot on stall for creativity and I think you should take SubSeed Celebi or Physically Defensive Gyarados. Other than that perfect lineup, but I'm questioning 2 mon's movesets. Rotom should never play Discharge as your goal is to burn incoming physical attackers and Discharge will only paralyze them which is much less effective than a burn.
Also, Blissey needs to play Wish and Protect on stall to heal her teammates and keep them alive. Finally, just play the defensive set for Latias as the set you currently have is pretty pointless. This set is 252 HP 252 Speed with Reflect, Recover/Wish, DPulse and Roar. Hope I helped!

 

[Gates]

Machamp fits in by taking out threats to stall or other people who are trying to stall me. Stuff like Rotoms, Blisseys, Latias, etc. It's also a great check against most of the non-stall threats in the metagame like TTar, Gyarados, Salamence, and just about any steel type. The confusion from DynamicPunch is what helps a lot against opposing walls like Hippowdon and Swampert which I wouldn't be able to beat in a straight-up fight, and it can help against Suicune to confuse them into messing up a few boosts and allowing Latias to race them. It's also my only physical attacker, which is kind of a big deal. I don't think Celebi or Gyarados would help replace it at all.

Empoleon is largely used for the defensive typing it has and also for the fact that it can set up rocks and check a lot of things. Swampert wouldn't really help much in this regard since even though you could argue that its typing is better due to the fact that it only has one weakness, it doesn't have a lot of the key resistances I need like bug, ghost, dragon, steel, and especially ice. Without Empoleon I have nothing on my team with an Ice resistance, which is asking for Latias to get *****. And I don't need something that checks Salamence "most of the time", I need something that checks it every time, which Empoleon is good at thanks to typing and Ice Beam access and resistance to Outrage.

Paralysis is just as effective as a burn in this metagame considering the prevalence of Heatran and other fire types, and on this team in particular paralysis is great because everything is just so **** slow. It's why I run Thunder Wave over Toxic on my Blissey also.

WishBliss is an option that I guess I could consider, but I like the options that my current build affords me. If I tried fitting in Wish and Protect, I'd have to take out either TWave and leave it with no status, Flamethrower and be walled by Ghosts, or Seismic Toss and be walled by Heatran and Substitute users.

How is the Latias I have pointless? I need a sweeper on this team with good typing and Latias fits both roles. It can serve as a backup special wall if Blissey dies or can't come in for some reason and its special attack is high enough to take out just about anything. The moveset you suggested is also very questionable. I tried using Reflect on Rotom and it rarely helped, so why would it work better on Latias? Roar is also debatable. I already have a Phazer in Skarmory and if I did go with Swampert as you suggest I'd have two. That means I'd have 3 Phazers total, which is excessive. Honestly, I don't think the team you're suggesting would be able to actually kill things since it wouldn't have any sweepers.

 

[Reigned]

Machamp can do that yes, and it's very powerful. But these threats are usually defeated on stall with a combination of Spikes and Stealth Rock along with a bit of prediction. Honestly Machamp is usually a 1 for 1 mon, he will always kill something but will usually die right right after.

Also, Empoleon doesn't do at all as well as Swampert, Skarmory can switch in on Outrages too, take them better and heal himself + phaze or set up spikes. Swampert can take any move Salamence can throw at him and a +1 boosted Outrage can do only a maximum of 87 allowing you to Ice Beam for the KO.

And yes, that Latias is pointless. STALL HAS NO SWEEPERS. Stall is simply using bulky pokemon and entry hazards to slowly defeat your opponent. Your set doesn't wall as much as the one I suggested anyways which can even wall Scizor and Tyranitar for a set number of turns.

Also, you're right, paralysis is great, but not when you have two pokemon that can destroy both Heatran and Infernape when they come in (Latias and Blissey).

Hope I cleared some things up for you.

 

[Cease Tick]

Machamp can do that yes, and it's very powerful. But these threats are usually defeated on stall with a combination of Spikes and Stealth Rock along with a bit of prediction. Honestly Machamp is usually a 1 for 1 mon, he will always kill something but will usually die right right after.

Also, Empoleon doesn't do at all as well as Swampert, Skarmory can switch in on Outrages too, take them better and heal himself + phaze or set up spikes. Swampert can take any move Salamence can throw at him and a +1 boosted Outrage can do only a maximum of 87 allowing you to Ice Beam for the KO.

And yes, that Latias is pointless. STALL HAS NO SWEEPERS. Stall is simply using bulky pokemon and entry hazards to slowly defeat your opponent. Your set doesn't wall as much as the one I suggested anyways which can even wall Scizor and Tyranitar for a set number of turns.

Also, you're right, paralysis is great, but not when you have two pokemon that can destroy both Heatran and Infernape when they come in (Latias and Blissey).

Hope I cleared some things up for you.

It isn't a full stall team, it's semi-stall. Latias is fine.

 

[Gates]

That's basically what I was trying to say. Running full stall isn't fun to me.